Ray Rice Injury

[Sami84]

I could never (in his current form) say Suggs isn't worth it. When do you really see him have a bad game? Hes one of the best all around OLBs in the league. The guy is a true great, stopping the run and will have over 100 sacks (career) , easily! No one trick pony!

yeah i agree on suggs. ngata has not taken his game to the next level. like truthfuly....ngata or prime trevor pryce or sam adams?

[Sami84]

the only olb/de id take over suggs in his era is demarcus ware.

[H8R]

the only olb/de id take over suggs in his era is demarcus ware.

Watt is closing in on that level though.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Watt is closing in on that level though.

Isn't watt a 4-3 DT or 3-4 de? Not exactly comparable to Suggs and ware

[H8R]

Isn't watt a 4-3 DT or 3-4 de? Not exactly comparable to Suggs and ware

I was using his criteria of OLB/DE ... which Watt is. Soo.... yea.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Watts not an OLB. And he's usually only de in the 3-4. More comparable to an art jones, pernell McPhee (before the position switch) than Suggs and ware. He may have taken some snaps as an OLB or 4-3 de but it is by no means his normal position.

Granted he does line up all over the field but he's an inside pass rusher.

[jimmypowder]

Even before the hip injury I have seen no explosiveness from Rice this year . The is something to be very concerned about .

[Poes Crows]

Ngata is certainly approaching the point of his contract not being justified.
Grubbs over Rice? Is that a special at the China Wok? You crazy. KO is playing well enough.

 

There's something about Fans discussing the "Salaries" of players that is in a word "repulsive."  Why is it that what players earn becomes grist for discussion among fans? Is it that some fans harbor a desire?...that deeply, secretly these fans believe they are bean counting / money managing Front Office reapers?  Why is it that some of these casual fans migrate so readily towards the "management" position that players may not be worth the contracts management signs? It's a puzzlement.

 

True...a player and his agent have to understand that the only certainty in a Raven's or NFL Contract is the guaranteed money.  That teams will abandon the term and value of any contract that does not contain such guarantees.  Dumervil's contract for instance. There's no way the Raven's will "honor" the strict term and value of that "agreement".  The history reveals that Elvis will soon "leave the building". 

 

It's an evil not exclusive to the Raven's. All the teams do it. But somehow, the Players Union is allowing this "Skewed" arrangement to exist.  A player coming out of college has to sign with the Player's Union to play in the NFL and then is limited in what he can earn by that Union's Agreement with the NFL Cabal.  Isn't this a "Right to Work" Nation???  Why should a player out of College have to sign on with the Player's Union to play NFL Football??...Ohhhhh....is it because the NFL Cabal won't draft a player that doesn't restrict his earnings by joining the "union"???.  Interesting arrangement. Wonder if it's legal???

 

Yeah, in coming down on the side of the bean counters, the men that risk their bodies that are the real source of entertainment are devalued.  It's time for this Player's Union to play Hard Ball with the owners. They want more games in the season. If they are going to get an 18 game season, there are some changes that are going to have to be made. 

[arnie_uk]

There's something about Fans discussing the "Salaries" of players that is in a word "repulsive."  Why is it that what players earn becomes grist for discussion among fans? Is it that some fans harbor a desire?...that deeply, secretly these fans believe they are bean counting / money managing Front Office reapers?  Why is it that some of these casual fans migrate so readily towards the "management" position that players may not be worth the contracts management signs? It's a puzzlement.
 
True...a player and his agent have to understand that the only certainty in a Raven's or NFL Contract is the guaranteed money.  That teams will abandon the term and value of any contract that does not contain such guarantees.  Dumervil's contract for instance. There's no way the Raven's will "honor" the strict term and value of that "agreement".  The history reveals that Elvis will soon "leave the building". 
 
It's an evil not exclusive to the Raven's. All the teams do it. But somehow, the Players Union is allowing this "Skewed" arrangement to exist.  A player coming out of college has to sign with the Player's Union to play in the NFL and then is limited in what he can earn by that Union's Agreement with the NFL Cabal.  Isn't this a "Right to Work" Nation???  Why should a player out of College have to sign on with the Player's Union to play NFL Football??...Ohhhhh....is it because the NFL Cabal won't draft a player that doesn't restrict his earnings by joining the "union"???.  Interesting arrangement. Wonder if it's legal???
 
Yeah, in coming down on the side of the bean counters the men that risk their bodies and are the real source of entertainment are devalued.  It's time for this Player's Union to play Hard Ball with the owners. They want more games in the season. If they are going to get an 18 game season, theres some changes that are going to have to be made.

you do realise the players union wanted players that were just drafted to have low salaries so veterans get paid more right? They wanted that. Lie down will you

[H8R]

There's something about Fans discussing the "Salaries" of players that is in a word "repulsive."  Why is it that what players earn becomes grist for discussion among fans? Is it that some fans harbor a desire?...that deeply, secretly these fans believe they are bean counting / money managing Front Office reapers?  Why is it that some of these casual fans migrate so readily towards the "management" position that players may not be worth the contracts management signs? It's a puzzlement.

 

True...a player and his agent have to understand that the only certainty in a Raven's or NFL Contract is the guaranteed money.  That teams will abandon the term and value of any contract that does not contain such guarantees.  Dumervil's contract for instance. There's no way the Raven's will "honor" the strict term and value of that "agreement".  The history reveals that Elvis will soon "leave the building". 

 

It's an evil not exclusive to the Raven's. All the teams do it. But somehow, the Players Union is allowing this "Skewed" arrangement to exist.  A player coming out of college has to sign with the Player's Union to play in the NFL and then is limited in what he can earn by that Union's Agreement with the NFL Cabal.  Isn't this a "Right to Work" Nation???  Why should a player out of College have to sign on with the Player's Union to play NFL Football??...Ohhhhh....is it because the NFL Cabal won't draft a player that doesn't restrict his earnings by joining the "union"???.  Interesting arrangement. Wonder if it's legal???

 

Yeah, in coming down on the side of the bean counters, the men that risk their bodies that are the real source of entertainment are devalued.  It's time for this Player's Union to play Hard Ball with the owners. They want more games in the season. If they are going to get an 18 game season, there are some changes that are going to have to be made. 

 

 

Whole lot of text ,with zero value... taking up space. It's pretty simple really. The writing is on the wall that if his (Ngata) production and health dont improve , he'll fast be on the chopping block next year. What's "repulsive" is your attempt at "logic". You're very longwinded. Enough with the filler, actually make a point with your blocks of text. I'm assuming you've already proclaimed yourself " The smartest in the room" years ago, so there's really not much reason for anyone to respond any further.

[H8R]

Watts not an OLB. And he's usually only de in the 3-4. More comparable to an art jones, pernell McPhee (before the position switch) than Suggs and ware. He may have taken some snaps as an OLB or 4-3 de but it is by no means his normal position.

Granted he does line up all over the field but he's an inside pass rusher.

Do you not understand what HE said? It seems you dont. Watt is a DE.

[Puntit]

There's something about Fans discussing the "Salaries" of players that is in a word "repulsive."  Why is it that what players earn becomes grist for discussion among fans? Is it that some fans harbor a desire?...that deeply, secretly these fans believe they are bean counting / money managing Front Office reapers?  Why is it that some of these casual fans migrate so readily towards the "management" position that players may not be worth the contracts management signs? It's a puzzlement.

 

True...a player and his agent have to understand that the only certainty in a Raven's or NFL Contract is the guaranteed money.  That teams will abandon the term and value of any contract that does not contain such guarantees.  Dumervil's contract for instance. There's no way the Raven's will "honor" the strict term and value of that "agreement".  The history reveals that Elvis will soon "leave the building". 

 

It's an evil not exclusive to the Raven's. All the teams do it. But somehow, the Players Union is allowing this "Skewed" arrangement to exist.  A player coming out of college has to sign with the Player's Union to play in the NFL and then is limited in what he can earn by that Union's Agreement with the NFL Cabal.  Isn't this a "Right to Work" Nation???  Why should a player out of College have to sign on with the Player's Union to play NFL Football??...Ohhhhh....is it because the NFL Cabal won't draft a player that doesn't restrict his earnings by joining the "union"???.  Interesting arrangement. Wonder if it's legal???

 

Yeah, in coming down on the side of the bean counters, the men that risk their bodies that are the real source of entertainment are devalued.  It's time for this Player's Union to play Hard Ball with the owners. They want more games in the season. If they are going to get an 18 game season, there are some changes that are going to have to be made. 

Because this game is played under a salary cap, optimal use of the salary cap is actually part of the game and strategy of football.  The reason the Steelers are probably doomed  to mediocrity over the next few years all the dead cap money they have been pushing forward. The reason a young team like the Bengals are likely to be decent for a while is because they really don't have many big contracts. The reason a superbowl contender like the Ravens has such an offseason struggle is because so many of the players choose to cash in. So yeah, the salary cap and players salaries are a big part of the strategy of football. Games are won and lost in the offseason based on who is willing to play for what. We chose our defense over Boldin, totally a cap related analysis. Its part of the game. And that's why salaries are the "grist" for discussion.

 

I also note that though you find discussion of salaries "repulsive", you launch right into a discussion of Dumerville's contract in the very next paragraph...

[H8ME]

Even before the hip injury I have seen no explosiveness from Rice this year . The is something to be very concerned about .

 

Umm, he's played 1 1/2 games behind an offenisive line that's played poorly thus far.

[jimmypowder]

Umm, he's played 1 1/2 games behind an offenisive line that's played poorly thus far.

Yeah I agree the oline hasnt looked too good but Ray has looked tentative. I'm wondering

if he didn't have some minor injury before the hip strain that hasn't been mentioned.

 

It looks like he has lost some speed.That's my observation.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

If you watch the play where rice fumbles i think he initially tweaked his hip there and it gave out later. watch it he favors that hip after the fumble

[Sami84]

im not saying he isnt useful but i can say with confidence that we have seen the best of ray rice.

[The Raven]

 

im not saying he isnt useful but i can say with confidence that we have seen the best of ray rice.

 

For once, I must agree.

 

So far, Pierce has looked more explosive and more effective behind the same line. Rice is regressing. I hate to say it, but he is. Though, I feel, again, it's directly related to the ZBS. In 2009, his best season, we ran strictly man blocking schemes save for a few stretch plays. In man blocking plays, the hole is in one, direct spot, so all the RB has to do is hit the hole. Rice looks for holes too much in this scheme, and it slows him down. 

[FerrariFan87]

Harbs doesn't sound concerned, but I wouldn't push it with Rice. We're gonna need him healthy down the stretch. Pierce has proven more than capable.

[The Raven]

I'd keep Rice inactive for a week or two. Activate Droughn and give him carries as needed. If we think Juice can carry the rock, why not? Use him too.

[KillaBirdTJ]

Like I said before we cut Rainey... Rainey was by far our best Rb of the preseason (check the stats), probably a harder runner at this point in their career's than Rice. Just imagine the relentless explosiveness of Rainey to go with the down-hill running of Pierce... Too bad we cut him. Smh

 

Pierce has had durability concerns, and Rice seems stuck in 1st gear. Hopefully with some improvement on the O-line (perhaps shift back to a man blocking scheme) we will improve the running game and re-kindle some of that chemistry from Rice's days of domination (2009-2011).

[The Raven]

Like I said before we cut Rainey... Rainey was by far our best Rb of the preseason (check the stats), probably a harder runner at this point in their career's than Rice. Just imagine the relentless explosiveness of Rainey to go with the down-hill running of Pierce... Too bad we cut him. Smh

 

Pierce has had durability concerns, and Rice seems stuck in 1st gear. Hopefully with some improvement on the O-line (perhaps shift back to a man blocking scheme) we will improve the running game and re-kindle some of that chemistry from Rice's days of domination (2009-2011).

 

Remind me, what did Rainey do against us? Anything at all? Right.

 

Also, the dude is already like 27. He won't be effective for very long. Sorry, just the cold, hard truth.

[rmw10]

Like I said before we cut Rainey... Rainey was by far our best Rb of the preseason (check the stats), probably a harder runner at this point in their career's than Rice. Just imagine the relentless explosiveness of Rainey to go with the down-hill running of Pierce... Too bad we cut him. Smh

 

Pierce has had durability concerns, and Rice seems stuck in 1st gear. Hopefully with some improvement on the O-line (perhaps shift back to a man blocking scheme) we will improve the running game and re-kindle some of that chemistry from Rice's days of domination (2009-2011).

 

Again, Rainey being a RB had nothing to do with making this team.  Great stats?  Sure, but was he ever going to play RB?  Probably not.

 

His value came as a returner.  At the time, we had Jacoby with Thompson on the mend.  No one could have predicted that Jacoby would miss extended because of his own player running into him in week 1.  We took the risk that Jacoby would be fine until week 3 or so when Thompson comes back and fills that backup role.  It didn't work out.  We can't hold guys on the roster for every "if" possibility.  Rainey had great stats, but ultimately, was a victim on the numbers game.

[T3hRaven]

 

im not saying he isnt useful but i can say with confidence that we have seen the best of ray rice.

 

 

That's just logic.  Age and carries eventually catch up with you, and outside of one season he was never spectacular as a pure runner.  Hopefully his ultimate decline doesn't happen for a few years yet, I mean I knew giving him the long term deal was a bad idea but if he can't do anything it will be even worse than I predicted.  

 

We need to use Rice like the Saints use Sproles, because Rice is a rich man's Sproles.  Get him out in space and use him in the passing game.  He's not a guy who's going to create his own yards pounding it up the middle.

[The Raven]

That's just logic.  Age and carries eventually catch up with you, and outside of one season he was never spectacular as a pure runner.  Hopefully his ultimate decline doesn't happen for a few years yet, I mean I knew giving him the long term deal was a bad idea but if he can't do anything it will be even worse than I predicted.  

 

We need to use Rice like the Saints use Sproles, because Rice is a rich man's Sproles.  Get him out in space and use him in the passing game.  He's not a guy who's going to create his own yards pounding it up the middle.

 

Do you think it's time to name Pierce the starter and delegate Rice to third down duty? 

[PeRK82]

I think RICE should Definitely take a few weeks off to completely heal.  

(If Rice aint catching he aint running)

 

B.P. can handle it.

[T3hRaven]

Do you think it's time to name Pierce the starter and delegate Rice to third down duty? 

 

No, he's Darren Sproles+.  If the blocking his fine he's proven he can be relatively productive as a back.  Players making that kind of money do not get relegated to only third down duties.

[PeRK82]

That's just logic.  Age and carries eventually catch up with you, and outside of one season he was never spectacular as a pure runner.  Hopefully his ultimate decline doesn't happen for a few years yet, I mean I knew giving him the long term deal was a bad idea but if he can't do anything it will be even worse than I predicted.  

 

We need to use Rice like the Saints use Sproles, because Rice is a rich man's Sproles.  Get him out in space and use him in the passing game.  He's not a guy who's going to create his own yards pounding it up the middle.

 

I said RICE peak a few yrs ago.

 

B.P. runs soooo much better than him. It like night and day.

Even when B.P. was getting 2 1/2 yards, i was thinking to myself Rice would have gotten neg. yds because on those 2 1/2 yrd, B.P. was getting touched  behind the line of scrim.  RICE would have went down where B.P. was touch behind the line.

[T3hRaven]

I said RICE peak a few yrs ago.

 

B.P. runs soooo much better than him. It like night and day.

Even when B.P. was getting 2 1/2 yards, i was thinking to myself Rice would have gotten neg. yds because on those 2 1/2 yrd, B.P. was getting touched  behind the line of scrim.  RICE would have went down where B.P. was touch behind the line.

 

If I remember my stats correctly, the only player who has broken more tackles this season than AP is Pierce, I think he broke 7 yesterday.  If our offensive line was even average I think he'd be getting 4.5 ypc.

[Sami84]

If I remember my stats correctly, the only player who has broken more tackles this season than AP is Pierce, I think he broke 7 yesterday.  If our offensive line was even average I think he'd be getting 4.5 ypc.

yup. pierce for me is our best option now. rice has a tonne of mileage and his running style isnt age friendly.

[BloodRaven]

Rice turns 27 this season but lets not forget that HB wear and tear is cumulative and in Rutgers he had 910 carries, thats equivalent to 3 years as a featured back before he was drafted. He has peaked.