Dennis Pitta is a bigger loss than Q (Anquan Boldin)

[Ravenslifer]

Well, Anquan is a physical WR who enjoys contact with DBs. When you have a WR like that he is best working the middle of the field against LB and slot CBs that are typically smaller or not as fast as a WR (in the case of LB). Kaepernick is a good QB for Anquan because he can run, and as a result when you have a running QB you need to play zone coverage to allow a CB to come from their zone to where the QB will run. In this situation, Anquan is in an ideal scenario. Joe doesn't run like that. 

 

Q did just fine with Kurt Warner throwing to him.  I don't think it has to do with having a mobile QB, but more the fact that Q is being used in a WC style offense with quick, short passes over the middle, where he's able to do his thing.  Q was never an outside the numbers receiver, but that's where he played here the majority of his time.  I think he would have success regardless of the QB as long as he's playing his natural position.

[jazz1988]

I dont think Pitta is bigger loss than Q at all.  Pitta was never the leader Boldin was, he never was solid blocker like  boldin was, defenses feared him but i think defenses may have feared Boldin alot more it was like Boldin bought that intimdation factor with his presence along with his play.

 

 Pitta definately would had ease the loss of the Bolidn but in the end he's gone and so is Boldin(whom just had a monster game).The ravens need another boldin/pitta  and Dallas Clark/Brandon Stokley may be consider down grades but they the best the ravens have that can come close to the reliability that Boldin and Pitta provided .

[GrimCoconut]

Q did just fine with Kurt Warner throwing to him. I don't think it has to do with having a mobile QB, but more the fact that Q is being used in a WC style offense with quick, short passes over the middle, where he's able to do his thing. Q was never an outside the numbers receiver, but that's where he played here the majority of his time. I think he would have success regardless of the QB as long as he's playing his natural position.

I didn't mean to imply that he can only succeed with a mobile QB. I meant more that at this stage in his career and the type of QB he has really benefits his style when combined with the play calling.

[izvoodoo]

I didn't mean to imply that he can only succeed with a mobile QB. I meant more that at this stage in his career and the type of QB he has really benefits his style when combined with the play calling.

Yeah, he saw a ton of shallow zones.  And he's basically unstoppable in that, he recognizes zones really fast, settles in them.  Makes the catch, and hits people.

 

With Kaep its hard to play man.  Kids a playmaker.

[Ravenslifer]

I didn't mean to imply that he can only succeed with a mobile QB. I meant more that at this stage in his career and the type of QB he has really benefits his style when combined with the play calling.

 

Agreed, I just meant that the scheme really helps Boldin - I think if he'd still been here Jim Caldwell would have used him similarly and he would have had his best season with us.  People seem to think Q has magically rediscovered a fountain of youth, but I happen to think if he'd had a scheme tailored to him the last 3 years here we would have seen a similar guy.

[izvoodoo]

Agreed, I just meant that the scheme really helps Boldin - I think if he'd still been here Jim Caldwell would have used him similarly and he would have had his best season with us.  People seem to think Q has magically rediscovered a fountain of youth, but I happen to think if he'd had a scheme tailored to him the last 3 years here we would have seen a similar guy.

Well we were shallow at receiver, and therefore Boldin had to play more outside.

[berad]

jacoby jones resgining was a mistake. return men have their great season and seldom duplicate it. i think its a lot of luck and reliance on others.

Jacoby wasn't re-signed, his original deal was for 2 years. Returners are fickle but a 2 year deal can protect against that.

Pitta is obviously the bigger loss because it was unexpected.

[Ravenslifer]

Well we were shallow at receiver, and therefore Boldin had to play more outside.

 

We had Torrey and Jacoby last year - and the 49ers are down several receivers, they have 2 rookies and a guy deemed a first round bust, yet they're still putting Q in the slot.  I don't believe in all this "you have to put a starting receiver on the outside", I really don't.  There are at least 3 number 1 receivers I can think of off the top of my head - Cruz, Welker, Colston - that are all primarily slot receivers.  I think you put the receiver where he has the most success, and Q in AZ, even before Fitz got there, was a monster in the slot.  You know who I'm blaming for this, I won't repeat the name, but IMO the biggest hurdle to this offense the last few years was simply trying to fit guys into a position regardless of their strengths and weaknesses.  And I think with Caldwell calling the shots, we would have seen something different.

[beanfigger]

I think it's obvious that Pitta is the bigger loss.  Our receivers won't play too bad this year.  Our TEs are a complete wildcard.  Not to mention the fact that we have known and planned to fill in for Boldin all offseason, while the Pitta loss came during training camp and after most of free agency and the draft.

[izvoodoo]

We had Torrey and Jacoby last year - and the 49ers are down several receivers, they have 2 rookies and a guy deemed a first round bust, yet they're still putting Q in the slot.  I don't believe in all this "you have to put a starting receiver on the outside", I really don't.  There are at least 3 number 1 receivers I can think of off the top of my head - Cruz, Welker, Colston - that are all primarily slot receivers.  I think you put the receiver where he has the most success, and Q in AZ, even before Fitz got there, was a monster in the slot.  You know who I'm blaming for this, I won't repeat the name, but IMO the biggest hurdle to this offense the last few years was simply trying to fit guys into a position regardless of their strengths and weaknesses.  And I think with Caldwell calling the shots, we would have seen something different.

No I agree with you, Cameron basically kept Boldin out of the hall of fame.

[-Truth-]

I did, and none of you know how that offense works.

 

That offense is designed for Kaep to lock on to a WR and throw it to him regardless of who it is. Generally, that would be the best WR on the team, and with Crabtree injured it is Q. Crabtree would've had similar stats/

 

Not to mention the GB secondary is so piss poor that It helped so much,

 

Kaep is literally going to FEED Q this year, making him a fantasy stud. He's not an all pro. BEAST yes,  but not all pro

 

Q is a big loss, but Pitta would've made this team so much better that it's not even funny

 

EDIT: Kaep would feed the first WR regardless of how good/bad he was.

 

I completely disagree with your interpretation of their design. San Francisco is capable of routinely utilizing a YAC WR with route running ability, who's capable in 50/50 situations but lacks the foot speed to be a consistent deep threat because the opposing defenses are forced to respect the versatility of their QB and the creativity of their offensive packages. I understand your point about not overstating the loss of Anquan Boldin. However, blatantly belittling and almost disregarding his performance based on the fact that he was often targeted is entirely unsubstantiated. Boldin was on the other end of those targets, and was equally responsible in his own production. There were several impressive grabs on his end, and if there's anything that can't be overlooked after Thursday's performance, it is holding on to the football. I'm relatively unsurprised that Boldin was able to thrive within this scheme, as it was seemingly an ideal fit on paper. Also, the Packers' secondary is nowhere near as porous as you've described. They were 11th in pass defense in 2012 and 7th in yards per attempt, in a year wherein both Casey Heyward and Sam Shields were outstanding. It's impossible to ever know how we would've fared with either player in our first contest, so it's silly to debate who would've been the better provider. Although it's certainly arguable that we'd be a better Offense with either player. But the very last sentence is simply an inaccurate notion. If staring down a WR could merit 400+ passing yards, 200+ receiving yards and no turnovers regardless of how the WR performs, it would be commonplace in the NFL. Give some credit where it's due.

[reediddy]

Q was never utilized correctly in Baltimore plain and simple.

 

This. I can count 5 "rub" routes that SF ran to get Boldin open in space, where he is, ahem, most effective

[H8R]

The way I see it is this... Q had a great day against a bad defense.
HOWEVER... It's very clear to me that the routes Q is running are made for him! He was wide open on many occasions. Very Rarely was Q wide ops for us. So, that tells me he fits the 9ers scheme better or they've tailored the offense for him. It was nice

[SecretAgentMan]

I completely disagree with your interpretation of their design. San Francisco is capable of routinely utilizing a YAC WR with route running ability, who's capable in 50/50 situations but lacks the foot speed to be a consistent deep threat because the opposing defenses are forced to respect the versatility of their QB and the creativity of their offensive packages. I understand your point about not overstating the loss of Anquan Boldin. However, blatantly belittling and almost disregarding his performance based on the fact that he was often targeted is entirely unsubstantiated. Boldin was on the other end of those targets, and was equally responsible in his own production. There were several impressive grabs on his end, and if there's anything that can't be overlooked after Thursday's performance, it is holding on to the football. I'm relatively unsurprised that Boldin was able to thrive within this scheme, as it was seemingly an ideal fit on paper. Also, the Packers' secondary is nowhere near as porous as you've described. They were 11th in pass defense in 2012 and 7th in yards per attempt, in a year wherein both Casey Heyward and Sam Shields were outstanding. It's impossible to ever know how we would've fared with either player in our first contest, so it's silly to debate who would've been the better provider. Although it's certainly arguable that we'd be a better Offense with either player. But the very last sentence is simply an inaccurate notion. If staring down a WR could merit 400+ passing yards, 200+ receiving yards and no turnovers regardless of how the WR performs, it would be commonplace in the NFL. Give some credit where it's due.

Hey now, I never said Q was a bad WR lol... 200 yards receiving is a good day for anyone, but  I was trying to say that the Q loss wasn't as bad as everyone thinks.

[redravenfan]

I completely disagree with your interpretation of their design. San Francisco is capable of routinely utilizing a YAC WR with route running ability, who's capable in 50/50 situations but lacks the foot speed to be a consistent deep threat because the opposing defenses are forced to respect the versatility of their QB and the creativity of their offensive packages. I understand your point about not overstating the loss of Anquan Boldin. However, blatantly belittling and almost disregarding his performance based on the fact that he was often targeted is entirely unsubstantiated. Boldin was on the other end of those targets, and was equally responsible in his own production. There were several impressive grabs on his end, and if there's anything that can't be overlooked after Thursday's performance, it is holding on to the football. I'm relatively unsurprised that Boldin was able to thrive within this scheme, as it was seemingly an ideal fit on paper. Also, the Packers' secondary is nowhere near as porous as you've described. They were 11th in pass defense in 2012 and 7th in yards per attempt, in a year wherein both Casey Heyward and Sam Shields were outstanding. It's impossible to ever know how we would've fared with either player in our first contest, so it's silly to debate who would've been the better provider. Although it's certainly arguable that we'd be a better Offense with either player. But the very last sentence is simply an inaccurate notion. If staring down a WR could merit 400+ passing yards, 200+ receiving yards and no turnovers regardless of how the WR performs, it would be commonplace in the NFL. Give some credit where it's due.

well said !!!!

[EricH]

Whatever helps you sleep at night OP.
Pitta is no Boldin.

[SecretAgentMan]

The way I see it is this... Q had a great day against a bad defense.
HOWEVER... It's very clear to me that the routes Q is running are made for him! He was wide open on many occasions. Very Rarely was Q wide ops for us. So, that tells me he fits the 9ers scheme better or they've tailored the offense for him. It was nice

More of that their best cover CB was injured..... That hurts lol

[-Truth-]

well said !!!!

 

Thank you.

[BloodRaven]

Boldin is not a Raven and theres no point talking about him.

[Speed Kills]

The brutal truth is at the end of the day Kaep is a much better QB at developing chemistry with WR's than Flacco is. He took a WR Joe had for years and years and made him 10x better than he ever was here in his first game ever with the guy. I don't want to hear about how much better this year would have been if Q was playing here under Caldwell and not Cameron. Stop. No way he would have ever went off for 200 plus yards in a game for us ever I don't care who is calling the plays. I love Flacco, I think he is worth the massive contract and we pay him cause he plays lights out in big games. However, thus far he has not showed a great talent at developing chemistry with his receivers and this to me proves that. Hopefully its something he fixes. As for Oz, even the greats make mistakes I am not too mad about it. Q is gone and there is nothing we can do about it. Let it go. If we had beat Denver this wouldn't hurt nearly as much. What will be really interesting to judge is I wonder if the player we draft with this 6th round pick will amount to anything even close to what Q did today alone over the course of their entire career haha

[Alexir]

Did you not see the Packers game?

 

Q is in a much better offense. He was utilized how he was supposed to be utilized. 

[PolishRifle]

The brutal truth is at the end of the day Kaep is a much better QB at developing chemistry with WR's than Flacco is. He took a WR Joe had for years and years and made him 10x better than he ever was here in his first game ever with the guy. I don't want to hear about how much better this year would have been if Q was playing here under Caldwell and not Cameron. Stop. No way he would have ever went off for 200 plus yards in a game for us ever I don't care who is calling the plays. I love Flacco, I think he is worth the massive contract and we pay him cause he plays lights out in big games. However, thus far he has not showed a great talent at developing chemistry with his receivers and this to me proves that. Hopefully its something he fixes. As for Oz, even the greats make mistakes I am not too mad about it. Q is gone and there is nothing we can do about it. Let it go. If we had beat Denver this wouldn't hurt nearly as much. What will be really interesting to judge is I wonder if the player we draft with this 6th round pick will amount to anything even close to what Q did today alone over the course of their entire career haha

 

You're overreacting to one game (I did that too, but I'm done with that now ;) ). Boldin had a great game, but will he be able to repeat that, when teams are ready for it and are putting their best corners around him? When they are scheming against him? Boldin was never Megatron even with Kurt Warner throwing him the ball and I doubt it, that he became that just because he has Kaep throwing the football to him.

The whole "chemistry" term is also a very vague description of a QB and a WR completing passes on a regular basis, that is influenced by alot of factors, from the gameplan you're running to the team you're playing against.

Kaep is still a gimmick to me, that is on ridiculously loaded team, standing behind the best Oline in buisness.

[Speed Kills]

You're overreacting to one game (I did that too, but I'm done with that now ;) ). Boldin had a great game, but will he be able to repeat that, when teams are ready for it and are putting their best corners around him? When they are scheming against him? Boldin was never Megatron even with Kurt Warner throwing him the ball and I doubt it, that he became that just because he has Kaep throwing the football to him.

The whole "chemistry" term is also a very vague description of a QB and a WR completing passes on a regular basis, that is influenced by alot of factors, from the gameplan you're running to the team you're playing against.

Kaep is still a gimmick to me, that is on ridiculously loaded team, standing behind the best Oline in buisness.

See I am a big Kaep fan, I think he is the real deal so I am obviously a little biased just based off my man crush, but everything else you said is definitely true. However, when you start the season with a 200 yard game it is definitely fair to say that he will surpass any of the numbers he put up while here which tells me we neither used him correctly nor did Flacco develop great chemistry with him. A combination of the two. So the scary question I am left asking myself, and will continue to ask myself until we hopefully demolish Cleveland Sunday with a balanced offensive attack, is if Flacco couldn't find a way to develop awesome chemistry with Q how will he ever do it with the current group of guys we have, most of whom can't seem to even hold onto the football?

[Guest RBates]

Boldin is a better all around player than Pitta.  So losing Boldin is clearly the biggest blow. If Boldin worked the middle of the field near the end zone like I saw today in San Fran he would have more touchdowns than Pitta as well.

 

I understand the love for Pitta he is a true baller.  But you are making it sound like he is better than Boldin.  Nobody believes that.

[PolishRifle]

if Flacco couldn't find a way to develop awesome chemistry with Q

Erm, Joe did match Joe Montana's playoff record last season, didn't he? Didn't he outscore the best offense in the NFL (Pats) and upset the best team in the AFC (Broncos), didn't he win against a loaded 49ers team with an aging and hurting Ravens team? Wait, who quarterbacked the 49ers again?

 

Look, I am still angry we got rid of Q instead of Leach for example, who was being overpaid for a position some teams don't even pay attention to nowadays. And obviously I don't like seeing SF dominate after our humiliating loss in Denver. But throwing a QB under the bus, who so consistently led this team to one success after the other (could've been in two SB in a row!), after one game by proclaiming that Kaep is better than Joe, because of ONE regular season game is just as much of a unwarranted kneejerk reaction as the many "how could we let Boldin go?"-panic threads or the "letting Boldin go is no big deal"-damage control threads.

Just wait and see how everything unfolds.

[Speed Kills]

Erm, Joe did match Joe Montana's playoff record last season, didn't he? Didn't he outscore the best offense in the NFL (Pats) and upset the best team in the AFC (Broncos), didn't he win against a loaded 49ers team with an aging and hurting Ravens team? Wait, who quarterbacked the 49ers again?

 

Look, I am still angry we got rid of Q instead of Leach for example, who was being overpaid for a position some teams don't even pay attention to nowadays. And obviously I don't like seeing SF dominate after our humiliating loss in Denver. But throwing a QB under the bus, who so consistently led this team to one success after the other (could've been in two SB in a row!), after one game by proclaiming that Kaep is better than Joe, because of ONE regular season game is just as much of a unwarranted kneejerk reaction as the many "how could we let Boldin go?"-panic threads or the "letting Boldin go is no big deal"-damage control threads.

Just wait and see how everything unfolds.

Flacco is lights out in the playoffs, unquestioned and I love that he always gets up for the big games when it truly counts. Its why I said he is worth the contract earlier and that I do love him as our QB. I also never meant that Kaep is a better QB than Joe. I just meant about developing chemistry with receivers it seems like Kaep does it faster and it really takes alot of time with Joe. I didn't mean it to come off like I thought Kaep was a better QB when Joe is the one who beat him head to head and has the ring. Am I mad we lost Q? For sure, but I think Oz deserves to make a mistake every once in a while.

[PolishRifle]

Am I mad we lost Q? For sure, but I think Oz deserves to make a mistake every once in a while.

I agree with that. I also think, that this defense still has what it takes to be truely great. I know, that comes of as delusional after the Denver game, but our defense did manage to 3 and out the Broncos a bunch of times in the 1st half. It wasn't until Oher and Jacoby went down, that the offense started struggling and our defense got exhausted taking the field too many times.

However even amidst those offensive struggles in the 2nd half there were some nice drives and we did get to see Brown play well against starters in a real NFL game.

 

I think our defense, which we got by freeing up cap space, will end up hitting it's stride after early struggles and I do think, that if we commit to more 3 WR sets, that include Smith, Mellette and Brown, we will be able to offset any losses in our receiving corps.

 

Overall, I am very optimistic about the future of this team moving forward, even though this week sucked. Alot.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I saw the game. Almost all the catches Q caught were clutch plays in tough traffic in middle today. He was an absolute boss. Boldin didnt lose a step after playoffs. 208 yards, 1TD. Kap's completion rating went on to 70% and that is with over +35 throws.
And now, 9ers fans are talking about possibly extending boldin to a cheap 2-3 year deal instead of giving Crabtree a fat paycheck and groom Quinton Patton, Moore so they can pay Aldon.


I wanted us to extend boldin for cheap contract for 2 years. Now we have a late 6th round pick, 1.8m dead money from trade, and direly hurting @ receiving position. And for a #1 WR he was just 6m. Easily couldve been had b4 reg start.

Yep....This might come down to being the worst trade in Ravens history.

[mgridda]

I watched the game, too. He made a few contested grabs, but no most of them he was wide open and in space. 9ers fans can talk about whatever they'd like.

Anquan Boldin wouldn't have helped us. He would have just made it so that Marlon Brown would be cut or inactive like Mellette. Dennis Pitta would have helped us. So if you want to blame Ozzie for something, blame him for practicing Dennis Pitta.

 

or signing John Harbaugh, who practiced Dennis Pitta that day. Or for not forseeing the injury like #$@$ing Dumbledore and running from his office onto the field and jumping between Dig and Pitta in order to take the hit.

 

Look at the plays that Jacoby made before he was injured, and that Marlon Brown made after that. Does anyone think Boldin could have done better? The real issues were the drops by Clark and Dickson.

 

End of. 

[Inqui]

I watched the game, too. He made a few contested grabs, but no most of them he was wide open and in space. 9ers fans can talk about whatever they'd like.

Anquan Boldin wouldn't have helped us. He would have just made it so that Marlon Brown would be cut or inactive like Mellette. Dennis Pitta would have helped us. So if you want to blame Ozzie for something, blame him for practicing Dennis Pitta.

 

or signing John Harbaugh, who practiced Dennis Pitta that day. Or for not forseeing the injury like #$@$ing Dumbledore and running from his office onto the field and jumping between Dig and Pitta in order to take the hit.

 

Look at the plays that Jacoby made before he was injured, and that Marlon Brown made after that. Does anyone think Boldin could have done better? The real issues were the drops by Clark and Dickson.

 

End of. 

I agree but I disagree... if that makes sense.

 

I think the main reason losing Anquan sucks right now (well, both reasons) are the fact that we miss Pitta too and because of his big game against the Packers today.

 

To be fair, I'd actually rather have Pitta back if I could choose one of the two. Getting Boldin back brings those issues about his salary cap figure (again, higher than Joe Flacco's this year for those who forgot) and taking reps from younger guys. I agree that the issue was our TEs, but I think he'd have helped rectify that. Then again, you can't look at these things in a vacuum. I get the feeling Marlon would have made the field anyway, but the Jacoby injury would have been the main facilitator. Now I'm starting to contradict myself, so I should just move on to my next point.

 

Watching him light it up against the Packers sucked too, but I don't actually think it means as much as people are saying. The 49ers run a different brand of offence to us, so they're plugging the same guy into a different system with different tasks. It's like people saying Ozzie bombed that draft where he passed on Clay Mathews - I can understand where they're coming from but we're really just speculating about how we'd have used him based on how the Packers have used him.