Opinion: List of Ravens FO/Coaching moves that have historically hurt the francise...

[3-4ravdef509]

LOL at people still crying about trading Boldin. There's no winning with you guys.

If we had kept Boldin for another year, we wouldn't have Dumervil, Canty, Spears, or Huff. So take away those guys, and we are starting (mostly) young unproven guys. So then our defense sucks, and you guys complain about that.

We trade Boldin, you complain about it. You can't have it both ways guys. This isn't Madden.

Move on.

Wait, our defense that gives up 7 touchdown passes didn't suck?

[bauer77]

Wait, our defense that gives up 7 touchdown passes didn't suck?

 

 

I must have forgot, one game determines everything on here. My apologies. Our running games going to suck all year, and I'm SURE Peyton's going to pass for 7 TDs every game right? Cause that's your philosphy? One game determines how we're gonna be all year. /sarcasm

 

On a more serious note, what did you honestly expect? Our offense couldn't muster a first down to save their lives. Our defense was gasping for breath when the 4th quarter started. Of course plenty of mistakes were gonna happen after that.

[Poes Crows]

Five days, stuck on my eyes.

 

Five days, what a Sur..prise.

 

We got Five Days....My brain hurts a lot...

 

Five Days...That's all we've got.

[K-Dog]

Five days, stuck on my eyes.

 

Five days, what a Sur..prise.

 

We got Five Days....My brain hurts a lot...

 

Five Days...That's all we've got.

 

 

Five Guys, Burgers and Fries

[SecretAgentMan]

Five Guys, Burgers and Fries

Ew.... :P

[Ravenslifer]

Wait, our defense that gives up 7 touchdown passes didn't suck?

 

It took Brett Favre 19 years to set the career passing TD mark.  Peyton is going to break it next year at the latest, in less than 16 years.  The passing defense sucked against the regular season GOAT - that kind of ineptitude should not happen against most quarterbacks.

[3-4ravdef509]

I must have forgot, one game determines everything on here. My apologies. Our running games going to suck all year, and I'm SURE Peyton's going to pass for 7 TDs every game right? Cause that's your philosphy? One game determines how we're gonna be all year. /sarcasm

On a more serious note, what did you honestly expect? Our offense couldn't muster a first down to save their lives. Our defense was gasping for breath when the 4th quarter started. Of course plenty of mistakes were gonna happen after that.

Relax bro...if you paid attention to this board and saw my posts you'd know I'm not fair weather fan, I'm not panicking. But, you can't tell me you're confident that game isn't a bad omen for the future

[AlaskanRavensFan]

I will start:

 

1) Giving Kyle Boller too many years. You either have it or you don't. We really wasted some unbelievable defensive talent. A serviceable QB probably would have gotten the Ravens one more Superbowl trip.

 

2) Giving Cam Cameron too long of a leash and tenure. This man cost us BIG time with his ways.

 

3) Not letting Flacco grow early and make mistakes so he could organically grow to perfect his craft and test his limitations; evolve into a tactician, help make the offense unstoppable. He would have evolved to become the leader early on. No question. Flacco is very good to elite, but how many of you think he still has a higher level that he should and would be at right now???

 

4) Not fitting Boldin into his correct role somehow not finding a way to keep him. Watching Boldin do serious damage in SF really hurts to watch. **cry**

 

 

opinions / thoughts...

 

 

I agree with all of those except 4. Don't get me wrong I like Boldin and thought he was a valuable piece to the Superbowl team. The fact is though, that it's not good business to pay 6 mil for a slot reciever and Boldin was only going to be on the team for one more year anyway. The FO realized that they needed to rebuild the defense and that their weren't sufficient young players on the team to answer that call. They decided to go young, for the most part, for receivers and there is bound to be some growing pains as the players and coaches figure things out.

 

Perhaps you should also put a list of decisions that the FO/coaches got right to even it out?

[jimjim5]

I agree with all of those except 4. Don't get me wrong I like Boldin and thought he was a valuable piece to the Superbowl team. The fact is though, that it's not good business to pay 6 mil for a slot reciever and Boldin was only going to be on the team for one more year anyway. The FO realized that they needed to rebuild the defense and that their weren't sufficient young players on the team to answer that call. They decided to go young, for the most part, for receivers and there is bound to be some growing pains as the players and coaches figure things out.

 

Perhaps you should also put a list of decisions that the FO/coaches got right to even it out?

 

I was going to do that, but folks started being so hypersensitive to critique. Had to defend a couple of postings. I was just looking to create thought provoking posts and poll other fans. The loss on Thursday had me thinking about these mistakes.

[Ravenslifer]

I was going to do that, but folks started being so hypersensitive to critique. Had to defend a couple of postings. I was just looking to create thought provoking posts and poll other fans. The loss on Thursday had me thinking about these mistakes.

 

Every franchise every has made mistakes, serious mistakes in fact - note that Kyle Boller is NOT in fact talked about among the all-time busts at quarterback - there have been many worse decisions made when drafting that position.  Was trading Boldin a mistake - at this point nobody knows for sure.  The money we saved there went to fortifying the defense, and we have no idea what this unit will look like at the end of the season when they've all played together for several months.  Priest Holmes, that happens - I'm sure the Texans are kicking themselves that they let Jacoby Jones go. 2-4 you listed are a direct result of Cam Cameron's offense, IMO.  He's gone now, and John deserves a huge, huge amount of credit - Cam is not only one of John's closest friends, he is a mentor to John.  It's not easy to fire someone who you owe a lot of your success to.

 

And all of this is a reaction to one game - I say that because you would not have made this thread had we won Thursday night.  That is what is bothering me and I'm sure a lot of other posters here.  This team has always operated a certain way by letting players it feels it doesn't absolutely need go and locking up cornerstone pieces.  Specifically with Boldin, we did the same thing basically with Jamal Lewis, and long-term it turned out to be the right decision.  And I have to tell you after his season with Cleveland in 2007 I was absolutely sick, completely against this front office.  Turns out they were right - he was out of the league 2 years later.

 

As far as thought provoking posts, I don't see that - you could have said something like "Do you think the front office made a mistake" as opposed to out and out coming up with things that "hurt the franchise".  That's taking a shot at the front office, the coaches and the players in one go.  And that's what bothers me.  I guarantee if you had phrased it the first way, you would have seen much less vitriol and more thoughtful discussion.

 

Now let me try and analyze some of your assertions to show you, in a thoughtful manner, what I think of some of your assertions.

 

1) Kyle Boller had as much time as most first round rookie quarterbacks get - 3 years.  Drafted in 03, by 06 we brought in McNair.  We shouldn't have drafted him in the first place, but he was given the correct amount of time to show whether he had it or not.

 

2) Cam Cameron - agreed.  IMO he was done after 2010, and certainly after 2011.  We hung on to him way too long, and it might have cost us a trip to the Superbowl 2 years ago against the Giants.  That's over now.

 

3) Flacco - he's on pace with many future HOF qbs.  Compared to a guy like Matt Ryan, numbers wise no, but then again the Falcons have bent over backwards with draft picks for Ryan.  I guarantee if Ryan was throwing to Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton, and Todd Heap instead of Julio Jones, Roddy White, and Tony Gonzales his numbers would look WORSE than Joe's, and even worse if he was playing in the AFCN against the Steelers - Ryan had White and Gonzales and still lost to a Roethlisberger-less Steelers team in 2010.  Now moving forward, should we still add some pieces like a top-tier tight end, probably.  But Joe is growing at a an acceptable pace, especially when you consider most draft experts said he should sit until at least his second season, if not his third (ala Aaron Rodgers).

 

4) Boldin - it's one game, against one of the worst passing defenses there is, in a WCO designed for a receiver like Boldin.  Was Boldin ever used properly here, not really.  Could he have been, sure, but the fact remains that Boldin did the best job he could here in the offense we have.  Jacoby Jones or even Marlon Brown could match his success in raw numbers, simply because both are more suited to a downfield offense than Boldin.  And more importantly, if Boldin is here, Brown does not do what he did last week.  Brown only got a shot because Jacoby went out, just like Torrey only got a shot in 2011 because Lee Evans got hurt.  And 2011 was a season full of growing pains for Torrey and Joe, flash-forward to 2012 and they have a much stronger bond because of it. The same could happen for Joe and Marlon.

[Sami84]

Every franchise every has made mistakes, serious mistakes in fact - note that Kyle Boller is NOT in fact talked about among the all-time busts at quarterback - there have been many worse decisions made when drafting that position.  Was trading Boldin a mistake - at this point nobody knows for sure.  The money we saved there went to fortifying the defense, and we have no idea what this unit will look like at the end of the season when they've all played together for several months.  Priest Holmes, that happens - I'm sure the Texans are kicking themselves that they let Jacoby Jones go. 2-4 you listed are a direct result of Cam Cameron's offense, IMO.  He's gone now, and John deserves a huge, huge amount of credit - Cam is not only one of John's closest friends, he is a mentor to John.  It's not easy to fire someone who you owe a lot of your success to.

 

And all of this is a reaction to one game - I say that because you would not have made this thread had we won Thursday night.  That is what is bothering me and I'm sure a lot of other posters here.  This team has always operated a certain way by letting players it feels it doesn't absolutely need go and locking up cornerstone pieces.  Specifically with Boldin, we did the same thing basically with Jamal Lewis, and long-term it turned out to be the right decision.  And I have to tell you after his season with Cleveland in 2007 I was absolutely sick, completely against this front office.  Turns out they were right - he was out of the league 2 years later.

 

As far as thought provoking posts, I don't see that - you could have said something like "Do you think the front office made a mistake" as opposed to out and out coming up with things that "hurt the franchise".  That's taking a shot at the front office, the coaches and the players in one go.  And that's what bothers me.  I guarantee if you had phrased it the first way, you would have seen much less vitriol and more thoughtful discussion.

 

Now let me try and analyze some of your assertions to show you, in a thoughtful manner, what I think of some of your assertions.

 

1) Kyle Boller had as much time as most first round rookie quarterbacks get - 3 years.  Drafted in 03, by 06 we brought in McNair.  We shouldn't have drafted him in the first place, but he was given the correct amount of time to show whether he had it or not.

 

2) Cam Cameron - agreed.  IMO he was done after 2010, and certainly after 2011.  We hung on to him way too long, and it might have cost us a trip to the Superbowl 2 years ago against the Giants.  That's over now.

 

3) Flacco - he's on pace with many future HOF qbs.  Compared to a guy like Matt Ryan, numbers wise no, but then again the Falcons have bent over backwards with draft picks for Ryan.  I guarantee if Ryan was throwing to Derrick Mason, Mark Clayton, and Todd Heap instead of Julio Jones, Roddy White, and Tony Gonzales his numbers would look WORSE than Joe's, and even worse if he was playing in the AFCN against the Steelers - Ryan had White and Gonzales and still lost to a Roethlisberger-less Steelers team in 2010.  Now moving forward, should we still add some pieces like a top-tier tight end, probably.  But Joe is growing at a an acceptable pace, especially when you consider most draft experts said he should sit until at least his second season, if not his third (ala Aaron Rodgers).

 

4) Boldin - it's one game, against one of the worst passing defenses there is, in a WCO designed for a receiver like Boldin.  Was Boldin ever used properly here, not really.  Could he have been, sure, but the fact remains that Boldin did the best job he could here in the offense we have.  Jacoby Jones or even Marlon Brown could match his success in raw numbers, simply because both are more suited to a downfield offense than Boldin.  And more importantly, if Boldin is here, Brown does not do what he did last week.  Brown only got a shot because Jacoby went out, just like Torrey only got a shot in 2011 because Lee Evans got hurt.  And 2011 was a season full of growing pains for Torrey and Joe, flash-forward to 2012 and they have a much stronger bond because of it. The same could happen for Joe and Marlon.

derrick mason was a terrific WR with more long term ability. a natural. like boldin. they both have something ppl on this board underrated. football iq. i doubt julio jones will be anywhere near as good as boldin and mason when hes in his mid 30 s.

[Ravenslifer]

derrick mason was a terrific WR with more long term ability. a natural. like boldin. they both have something ppl on this board underrated. football iq. i doubt julio jones will be anywhere near as good as boldin and mason when hes in his mid 30 s.

 

But my point is overall, when discussing Flacco, a guy like Matt Ryan has always had superior weapons.  It's not just Julio, it's Julio + Roddy + Tony, whereas I feel the best Flacco has had, depending on how you want to look at it, was either Q + Derrick + Todd or Q + Torrey + Dennis.  Roddy was in his prime, so I'd say Roddy in his prime trumps the elder Mase or the still learning Torrey ( I will never forget Roddy single-handely destroying this team in 2010).  Overall point - Ryan in totality has had more around him, Joe has the ring.  So clearly on some level the front office knows what they're doing.

[Sami84]

id pick prime q and mase over roddy and julio. i just think they are better overall players. but yeah we never had both at their peak. of course tony gonzalez makes your point. however if peyton or brady had mason ...he would have legendary stats. better then welker in every single way as a football player.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

id pick prime q and mase over roddy and julio. i just think they are better overall players. but yeah we never had both at their peak. of course tony gonzalez makes your point. however if peyton or brady had mason ...he would have legendary stats. better then welker in every single way as a football player.

 

Just to chime in, I think youre spot on with Mason - but Mason's and to a large degree Boldin's skill sets fit much better in the Patriots and Peyton's offense.

 

Cam pretty much wasted the 2 best receivers this teams ever had by trying to make them something they never were. I cant use that as a knock on Joe.

[bauer77]

Relax bro...if you paid attention to this board and saw my posts you'd know I'm not fair weather fan, I'm not panicking. But, you can't tell me you're confident that game isn't a bad omen for the future

 

 

My apologies. Haven't been around as much since the game (staying away for obvious reasons lol), so i probably just haven't seen your posts in general. 

 

No, I'm not as confident as i thought i was, but i still think its just the fact that our new guys need time to gel. We added a lot of new people, can't just expect them to come in and do everything perfectly.

[Tank 92]

 

 

 

Five Guys, Burgers and Fries

 

 

Let's go buy Poes some

 

Maybe it would make him wise

[Tank 92]

 Overall point - Ryan in totality has had more receivers around him, Joe has the PO wins and the ring .  So clearly on some level the front office knows what they're doing.

 

 

....bottom line and the truth.