Opinion: List of Ravens FO/Coaching moves that have historically hurt the francise...

[RavensFanMvp]

If we have Boldin, we don't have any of the following: Dumervil, Canty, Smith, Spears, Huff.  The first 3 are bonafide starters for us.  Spears is a great rotational player.  Huff is still a question mark.  If you pick Boldin over 5 players, you're ridiculous.  It's hindsight.  I know it looks bad, but at the time, it's the right decision.

 

Of course we'd be better off with Boldin, but it's an opportunity cost.  It's not as simple as having Boldin or not having Boldin.  There's a lot more involved than that.

 

I call BS once again because if we get rid of Jacoby and Leach right now, Boldin would probably fit in under the cap. So no it's not Boldin over the 5 guys you named. It's Boldin over JJ and Leach. Even if we would have just signed Doom, Canty and Smith, and still kept Q, I'm sure any Raven fan would live with not having JJ, Leach, Spears and Huff.

[RavensFanMvp]

Oh the irony

 

Explain...

[The Raven]

Explain...

 

Your posts have done it for me ;)

[rmw10]

I call BS once again because if we get rid of Jacoby and Leach right now, Boldin would probably fit in under the cap. So no it's not Boldin over the 5 guys you named. It's Boldin over JJ and Leach. Even if we would have just signed Doom, Canty and Smith, and still kept Q, I'm sure any Raven fan would live with not having JJ, Leach, Spears and Huff.

 

Sure, you can make that argument for JJ.  However, we deemed that what JJ offered both on ST and on offense was worth more than what an aging receiver was worth.  I can't say I would have picked JJ over Boldin personally, but hey, that's what happened.  Boldin is now a 49er, so we all have to get over it.  It's done.  He's gone.

 

I guarantee that if Pitta was on the field, no one would be this up in arms about Boldin being gone.  Again, hindsight.

[GrimCoconut]

If we have Boldin, we don't have any of the following: Dumervil, Canty, Smith, Spears, Huff.  The first 3 are bonafide starters for us.  Spears is a great rotational player.  Huff is still a question mark.  If you pick Boldin over 5 players, you're ridiculous.  It's hindsight.  I know it looks bad, but at the time, it's the right decision.

 

Of course we'd be better off with Boldin, but it's an opportunity cost.  It's not as simple as having Boldin or not having Boldin.  There's a lot more involved than that.

While I agree with you in terms of Boldin giving us room to make key signings, I can't get on board with the idea that it was a move we absolutely had to do. We could have cut Jacoby Jones before his 1M (I believe) roster bonus was due and saved all but his small guaranteed bonus of like 2.9M? I can't recall to be totally honest, but we could have cut Leach (like we inevitably did) and used those funds to sign a majority (if not all) of those players. 

 

Make no mistake, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying it wasn't a required move. 

[PolishRifle]

Guess you didn't get the memo... Boldin had 13 catches for 208 yards and a td. Couple that with his huge playoff run last season and you could argue that the Ravens traded a top 10 WR for next to nothing...

 

A top 10 WR? That's just stupid. It's A game, dude. Boldin had a similarly impressive game in his NFL debut, but that doesn't mean a WR who ran the 40 in 4.7 seconds a decade ago is going to compete with Calvin Johnson.

Boldin could be the best #2 WR in the league, maybe, but that's about all I can give to a WR, who can't get seperation with his speed alone.

 

All we have seen in the game between the 49ers and Packers was a GB secondary with their starting safety and one of their better corners out, who were most likely preparing for Boldin to be used, the way the Ravens had, which they clearly didn't.

Just watch Boldin being a "beast" in the upcoming game against the Seahawks. You'll end up waiting for a long time.

[RavensFanMvp]

Your posts have done it for me ;)

 

That's what I want you to explain... What was wrong with my posts? I can take criticism unlike some people, * cough YOU...

 

Just because I disagree with your, "the FO can do no wrong attitude", doesn't mean my posts are BS. So again, explain...

 

What was BS about my posts?

 

I'll wait...

[GrimCoconut]

Sure, you can make that argument for JJ.  However, we deemed that what JJ offered both on ST and on offense was worth more than what an aging receiver was worth.  I can't say I would have picked JJ over Boldin personally, but hey, that's what happened.  Boldin is now a 49er, so we all have to get over it.  It's done.  He's gone.

 

I guarantee that if Pitta was on the field, no one would be this up in arms about Boldin being gone.  Again, hindsight.

Yeah, I agree. I think we lost a lot more than even I realized when we lost Pitta. I didn't think it would be such a huge deal initially, but this has proven to be a huge blow to our team. Dickson really isn't showing he's gotten better (yet) than last year, though some leeway should be given due to the fact that he's coming off of a hamstring injury. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel between Boldin vs. Jacoby. I mean, Jacoby offers a big play potential, whereas Boldin has it but he's more of a move the chains kind of guy. I can't fault the FO for doing what we've always asked them to do--have faith in the young guys to make plays. Sadly, it just didn't come to fruition. 

 

People complain when we don't give young guys a chance, then when we do and make a Boldin move people become furious because it doesn't work out as well as hoped (at least not initially). You just don't become a playmaker from day 1. Not normally. I'm willing to give this some time and see how we do once some guys get healthy before I start questioning Ozzie. 

[rmw10]

While I agree with you in terms of Boldin giving us room to make key signings, I can't get on board with the idea that it was a move we absolutely had to do. We could have cut Jacoby Jones before his 1M (I believe) roster bonus was due and saved all but his small guaranteed bonus of like 2.9M? I can't recall to be totally honest, but we could have cut Leach (like we inevitably did) and used those funds to sign a majority (if not all) of those players. 

 

Make no mistake, I'm not disagreeing with you. Just saying it wasn't a required move. 

 

Oh yeah I agree, as I stated in the post above yours.  I can't say I would have taken JJ over Boldin, personally.  However, the FO clearly thought the field position battle was worth more than a receiver who had been hit or miss in his time here.  I understand why they picked Boldin to leave.

 

By no means am I saying that trading him was a move I liked, but I do understand it, and I think the loss of so many other guys to injury makes it seem a lot worse than it really is.

[The Raven]

That's what I want you to explain... What was wrong with my posts? I can take criticism unlike some people, * cough YOU...

 

Just because I disagree with your, "the FO can do no wrong attitude", doesn't mean my posts are BS. So again, explain...

 

What was BS about my posts?

 

I'll wait...

 

I can't take criticism? You're way off base. I've refuted your claims with facts and logic, while you just shoot them down with the same claim.

 

Anyway, you just show a lack of critical thought and understanding. Criticizing Pees, Ozzie, etc for anything they do. Mainly regarding the defensive performance and Boldin release. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[GrimCoconut]

Oh yeah I agree, as I stated in the post above yours.  I can't say I would have taken JJ over Boldin, personally.  However, the FO clearly thought the field position battle was worth more than a receiver who had been hit or miss in his time here.  I understand why they picked Boldin to leave.

 

By no means am I saying that trading him was a move I liked, but I do understand it, and I think the loss of so many other guys to injury makes it seem a lot worse than it really is.

Yeah, we seem to be posting just before each other while the other is replying, lol. Anyway, as I said in the post above yours, I think it came down to five factors that caused us to drop Boldin for Jacoby: 

 

1. Age

2. Big-Play ability (Jacoby just has more of it, even if his hands haven't typically been as good)

3. Speed (sort of ties into big-play ability)

4. Cost (Jacoby is cheaper than Boldin)

5. ST return specialist ability. He's elite here. 

 

Boldin is a superior route-runner and is better at picking up yards after contact and he can fight for the ball better than anyone. He's not as fast and doesn't have the same type of big-play potential as Jacoby, however. He's also lacking in ST, which is something Jacoby really brings. I think it came down to the fact that Jacoby offered more bang for the buck. 

[RavensFanMvp]

A top 10 WR? That's just stupid. It's A game, dude. Boldin had a similarly impressive game in his NFL debut, but that doesn't mean a WR who ran the 40 in 4.7 seconds a decade ago is going to compete with Calvin Johnson.

Boldin could be the best #2 WR in the league, maybe, but that's about all I can give to a WR, who can't get seperation with his speed alone.

 

All we have seen in the game between the 49ers and Packers was a GB secondary with their starting safety and one of their better corners out, who were most likely preparing for Boldin to be used, the way the Ravens had, which they clearly didn't.

Just watch Boldin being a "beast" in the upcoming game against the Seahawks. You'll end up waiting for a long time.

 

Well Jerry Rice wasn't the fastest guy in the league and neither was Cris Carter. How that turn out for them? See, I can flip things around just like you can to make an argument... But I'm not trying to argue, cause I'll let the facts speak for itself.

The facts are, offensive players are going to shine against weaker defenses and struggle against good ones. I'm sure Megatron isn't going to put up huge numbers against the Seahawks either. Tell us something we don't know.

 

The thing is, Boldin is going to have more games where he put up good numbers, than not.

And it sure looked like he knew how to get open yesterday, even if it was against the Packers :268213:

[GrimCoconut]

Well Jerry Rice wasn't the fastest guy in the league and neither was Cris Carter. How that turn out for them? See, I can flip things around just like you can to make an argument... But I'm not trying to argue, cause I'll let the facts speak for itself.

The facts are, offensive players are going to shine against weaker defenses and struggle against good ones. I'm sure Megatron isn't going to put up huge numbers against the Seahawks either. Tell us something we don't know.

 

The thing is, Boldin is going to have more games where he put up good numbers, than not.

And it sure looked like he knew how to get open yesterday, even if it was against the Packers :268213:

He knew how to get open because they were in zone coverage and Boldin just eats up that kind of cushion. He's too good for that. You can't give him that kind of cushion. Also, the GB secondary wasn't too good. 

[PolishRifle]

Yeah, we seem to be posting just before each other while the other is replying, lol. Anyway, as I said in the post above yours, I think it came down to five factors that caused us to drop Boldin for Jacoby: 

 

1. Age

2. Big-Play ability (Jacoby just has more of it, even if his hands haven't typically been as good)

3. Speed (sort of ties into big-play ability)

4. Cost (Jacoby is cheaper than Boldin)

5. ST return specialist ability. He's elite here. 

 

Boldin is a superior route-runner and is better at picking up yards after contact and he can fight for the ball better than anyone. He's not as fast and doesn't have the same type of big-play potential as Jacoby, however. He's also lacking in ST, which is something Jacoby really brings. I think it came down to the fact that Jacoby offered more bang for the buck. 

The problem with the Jacoby vs Boldin discussion is, that Jacoby is just a somewhat effective Big-Play threat (he still doesn't have good hands). Boldin and Pitta were THE guys in the short and intermediate passing game. With Pitta and Boldin out, who do we have?

I think, we had enough speedy receivers on our roster to provide a Big-Play threat, but after the Boldin trade we only had Pitta as a dependable chain mover.

[rmw10]

Yeah, we seem to be posting just before each other while the other is replying, lol. Anyway, as I said in the post above yours, I think it came down to five factors that caused us to drop Boldin for Jacoby: 

 

1. Age

2. Big-Play ability (Jacoby just has more of it, even if his hands haven't typically been as good)

3. Speed (sort of ties into big-play ability)

4. Cost (Jacoby is cheaper than Boldin)

5. ST return specialist ability. He's elite here. 

 

Boldin is a superior route-runner and is better at picking up yards after contact and he can fight for the ball better than anyone. He's not as fast and doesn't have the same type of big-play potential as Jacoby, however. He's also lacking in ST, which is something Jacoby really brings. I think it came down to the fact that Jacoby offered more bang for the buck. 

 

I think you also have to include the fact that we seemingly had Boldin's replacements in house in Pitta and Doss.  Obviously Pitta got hurt, and I don't think anyone would have predicted Doss to play as poorly as he did.  It was a risk that seemed fool proof, but just didn't work out.

[GrimCoconut]

The problem with the Jacoby vs Boldin discussion is, that Jacoby is just a somewhat effective Big-Play threat (he still doesn't have good hands). Boldin and Pitta were THE guys in the short and intermediate passing game. With Pitta and Boldin out, who do we have?

I think, we had enough speedy receivers on our roster to provide a Big-Play threat, but after the Boldin trade we only had Pitta as a dependable chain mover.

I think the idea was to have Pitta & Doss be those dependable players whereas Jacoby would be used to make big plays and Smith would be used all over the field. If Ozzie is at any fault it's that he relied too much on Pitta. That's probably the only fault I can see here. I can't blame him because Pitta & Joe have ridiculous chemistry and this was a freak accident. 

[GrimCoconut]

I think you also have to include the fact that we seemingly had Boldin's replacements in house in Pitta and Doss.  Obviously Pitta got hurt, and I don't think anyone would have predicted Doss to play as poorly as he did.  It was a risk that seemed fool proof, but just didn't work out.

Lol, see my post below yours. 

[The Raven]

I think the idea was to have Pitta & Doss be those dependable players whereas Jacoby would be used to make big plays and Smith would be used all over the field. If Ozzie is at any fault it's that he relied too much on Pitta. That's probably the only fault I can see here. I can't blame him because Pitta & Joe have ridiculous chemistry and this was a freak accident. 

 

I can't even blame Ozzie at all. He anticipated more growth in Doss and Dickson. He wanted to keep the team well balanced. His intentions were great, and his logic was sound. Just, like you said, a freak accident, as well as a lack of growth by Doss.

[PolishRifle]

Well Jerry Rice wasn't the fastest guy in the league and neither was Cris Carter. How that turn out for them? See, I can flip things around just like you can to make an argument... But I'm not trying to argue, cause I'll let the facts speak for itself.

The facts are, offensive players are going to shine against weaker defenses and struggle against good ones. I'm sure Megatron isn't going to put up huge numbers against the Seahawks either. Tell us something we don't know.

 

The thing is, Boldin is going to have more games where he put up good numbers, than not.

And it sure looked like he knew how to get open yesterday, even if it was against the Packers :268213:

Yeah, right.

 

:point: Boldin is as good as Calvin Johnson.

[jimjim5]

Greg, Heap, and Mason was understandable releases. All those guys, with the exception of Mason maybe, was finished at that point in their careers. They just wasn't productivity. Boldin on the other hand was our best WR, so he was and is not replaceable. Even if Pitta, was set to replace him, someone still had to replace Pitta's production from a year ago.

It is what it is. The FO made some mistakes, that's just what it is.

My theory is this... I think Ozzie was so concerned with not repeating what happened the 1st time we won the super bowl (having to gut the roster a year later) that he tried to make enough moves this off season, so that he could have enough cap room in the upcoming years to keep most of our main guys around.

But when the smoke cleared, he still ended up gutting the roster... he just did it the year after we won the title, instead of two years later, like in 2000.  

Ozzie normally get rid of guys when they are done and finished, not when they are still playing at a pro bowl level. The moves we made this off season, were not typical Ravens moves.

 

Spot on. To add to this.. if we are not competitive this year, we wasted another potential Super Bowl caliber team. If this change work the F/O looks genius. Judging this year anything less than the Playoffs is a failure, but the true measure is next year, because in theory, with these moves, the team should be a playoff team again.

[RavensFanMvp]

Yeah, I agree. I think we lost a lot more than even I realized when we lost Pitta. I didn't think it would be such a huge deal initially, but this has proven to be a huge blow to our team. Dickson really isn't showing he's gotten better (yet) than last year, though some leeway should be given due to the fact that he's coming off of a hamstring injury. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel between Boldin vs. Jacoby. I mean, Jacoby offers a big play potential, whereas Boldin has it but he's more of a move the chains kind of guy. I can't fault the FO for doing what we've always asked them to do--have faith in the young guys to make plays. Sadly, it just didn't come to fruition. 

 

People complain when we don't give young guys a chance, then when we do and make a Boldin move people become furious because it doesn't work out as well as hoped (at least not initially). You just don't become a playmaker from day 1. Not normally. I'm willing to give this some time and see how we do once some guys get healthy before I start questioning Ozzie. 

 

Well I will give credit where credit is due... You aren't one of these cats that where the purple shades all day long Grim. I can respect that... And as far as giving the young guys a chance, I think it's a certain way of going about doing it. You don't just trade away your best WR and say here you go young man, the job is all yours.

Had they got rid of Jacoby, instead of Q, they caould have easily handed the 3rd WR spot to a young guy and see what he can do. Then if he excel in the 3rd receiver role, only then can you start thinking about getting rid of someone that's in front of him on the depht chart.

Huge mistake getting rid of Boldin, although I think our offense will still be efficient. Maybe not a top 5 offense had we kept Q, but still good.

[GrimCoconut]

I can't even blame Ozzie at all. He anticipated more growth in Doss and Dickson. He wanted to keep the team well balanced. His intentions were great, and his logic was sound. Just, like you said, a freak accident, as well as a lack of growth by Doss.

Oh, I know. I was just making a point playing the Devil's advocate. Nobody could anticipate Doss playing poor and Dickson having an injury of his own and looking the way he has. That's not counting the Pitta injury. 

[rmw10]

Lol, see my post below yours. 

 

Lol I give up.  One of those nights.

 

Basically, to sum it up: At the time, the move made 100% sense.  Due to unforeseen circumstances, it now looks like a terrible move.  I don't think anyone's to blame here unless we have someone that can tell the future in the FO.

[The Raven]

Oh, I know. I was just making a point playing the Devil's advocate. Nobody could anticipate Doss playing poor and Dickson having an injury of his own and looking the way he has. That's not counting the Pitta injury. 

 

Ozzie was just a victim of some bad luck. 

[RavensFanMvp]

Yeah, right.

 

:point: Boldin is as good as Calvin Johnson.

 

Here you go again flipping things to make yourself look good again... I clearly was using Calvin Johnson as an example that good offensive players struggle against good defenses... I guess you didn't catch that...

[RavensFanMvp]

I can't take criticism? You're way off base. I've refuted your claims with facts and logic, while you just shoot them down with the same claim.

 

Anyway, you just show a lack of critical thought and understanding. Criticizing Pees, Ozzie, etc for anything they do. Mainly regarding the defensive performance and Boldin release. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

 

Thanks for proving my point... Since I don't agree with you on theses issues, I'm the illogical one right? :banana1:

[RavensFanMvp]

He knew how to get open because they were in zone coverage and Boldin just eats up that kind of cushion. He's too good for that. You can't give him that kind of cushion. Also, the GB secondary wasn't too good. 

 

Hey, that's the Packers fault for playing zone, not Q's. All I know is he was in beast mode yesterday. There's no doubt in my mind that Q would have had a huge year for us under Cadwell.

[PolishRifle]

Here you go again flipping things to make yourself look good again... I clearly was using Calvin Johnson as an example that good offensive players struggle against good defenses... I guess you didn't catch that...

My point was, that you're wrong by saying that Boldin is a top 10 WR. You are putting him among players like Calvin Johnson, when you do that. That's not me putting words into your mouth.

 

Calvin Johnson

Brandon Marshall

Greg Jennings

Dez Bryant

Victor Cruz

DeSean Jackson

Vincent Jackson

Steve Smith

Julio Jones

Roddy White

 

Those are all WR, who are better than Boldin in no specific order and I haven't left the NFC yet. How is he a top 10 receiver?

[rmw10]

I usually hate everything Preston says, and while I don't agree with everything in this article, I thought it was a pretty good one from him:

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-column-0910-20130909,0,5068052,full.column

[Alexir]

What difference does it make if we brought these guys in or not? Our defense will underachieve all year because of good old Ben and Jerry. Pees will put these guys in a position to fail all season long... We all will see.

But back on topic...

Letting Dilfer go after winning the superbowl comes to mind... But trading Boldin for a bag of peanuts and not signing Reed back, hands down the worse moves the FO has made. It's not too many huge mistakes Ozzie and company has made but these are the main ones that I can think of... Oh yeah, trading a 1st rounder for Boller is another one.

 

Wow, this whole post made me laugh....we can bring those guys in because Boldin was overpaid. Underachieving defense? Calm down, you are such a debbie downer.