Article: the roster is a mess, and the coaches are at fault

[jimjim5]

I believe you just explained it yourself. What does this mean? If Leach got hurt and Juice didn't play, then your argument holds water. I already explained the faults as I see them. You said we brought back Leach as a response to Juice, but we also brought back McKinnie and signed Daryl Smith. By your logic, that is an indictment of Brown and Wagner. You said Juice not getting any PT in Game 1 was another indictment of him, but Simon and Mellette were not even active (nor were Williams and Jensen, but that's an injury issue). I'm saying you can't compare PT by our fifth pick to our top pick, who got mop up duty. What I was saying was that your arguments against Juice could be used against all the other guys who you used as examples to support your points. I know you didn't mean to condemn the whole draft, but I was saying that the whole draft was condemnable by the same "logical" arguments you made.

 

Your forgetting one salient point that that supports my argument. Wagner and Brown DID play in substitution. Also, I am referring to ONE player.

 

Simon, Mellette, and B. Williams in are positions with solid to great depth.

 

Jensen is hurt.

[jimjim5]

Anyone who attempts to judge a rookie class by their first regular season game needs to 1. Give up watching/rooting/supporting the NFL and it's teams 2. Pick a different sport to watch, because you obviously know nothing about football. 

 

Who is judging the rookie class? The OP title of the thread is, "...the roster is a mess, and the coaches are at fault", not - "this rookie class sucks."

[beanfigger]

Your forgetting one salient point that that supports my argument. Wagner and Brown DID play in substitution. Also, I am referring to ONE player.

 

Simon, Mellette, and B. Williams are positions with solid to great depth.

 

Jensen is hurt.

 

I know they played in injury substitution.  That is my argument.  I said that.  I don't think that helps your argument.  It would only have supported your argument if Leach got hurt and Juice wasn't called in.  You can't say, "Why did they play and not Juice?" when the answer is obvious.  They played as injury replacements.  Juice sat behind a healthy starter.  We have no idea how much those guys would have played had the guys in front of them not been hurt, so you cannot compare the situations.

[ravefan52]

Im worried about our depth on offense this season. Not just the receivers and tight ends, but Im worried about the offensive line. I don't think our backups are that great. I like Wagner's potential, but dont think he's ready at all if Oher or McKinnie were to go down for extended time. Him and Jah Reid our the backup G/T's. Then we have Shipley and Jenson, so we have three centers. That's a really thin, young, raw and inexperienced group imo. I don't know what the deal is with Jensen either, but maybe we end up putting him on IR and signing a vet. I just hope we can stay healthy on the oline because we cannot afford another loss to this offense.

[BmoreInBmore]

Who is judging the rookie class? The OP title of the thread is, "...the roster is a mess, and the coaches are at fault", not - "this rookie class sucks."

 

What are you so butt hurt about kid? Open your mouth and swallow a chill pill, we can all read here no need to bold your posts to gain yourself attention. 

[jimjim5]

I know they played in injury substitution.  That is my argument.  I said that.  I don't think that helps your argument.  It would only have supported your argument if Leach got hurt and Juice wasn't called in.  You can't say, "Why did they play and not Juice?" when the answer is obvious.  They played as injury replacements.  Juice sat behind a healthy starter.  We have no idea how much those guys would have played had the guys in front of them not been hurt, so you cannot compare the situations.

 

Oh, I see. so your categorizing Juice strictly as FB.... not, FB/HB/TE.

 

I am saying he is not ready to block or catch with the big boys. If he were, he would play in one of those roles. There is evidence supporting this.  He is screwing up the roster a bit this year. That is all.

 

I am will to bet he will not see any minutes in critical or impactful situations this year.

[jimjim5]

Is this a joke? Its bloody week one you fairy. This is a playoff caliber roster. Complete overreaction, we just played the hardest game of the season on the road against a legend; lost, and you declare the roster a mess? Take a chill pill kids, it's a 17 week season. I'd rather have our weakness exposed week one than week 16. This is a talented roster, with great coaches, and a stud front office; Fhuking jokers.

 

 

What are you so butt hurt about kid? Open your mouth and swallow a chill pill, we can all read here no need to bold your posts to gain yourself attention. 

 

 

Come on dude, no need ruin intelligent discourse with personal attacks.

[beanfigger]

Oh, I see. so your categorizing Juice strictly as FB.... not, FB/HB/TE.

 

I am saying he is not ready to block or catch with the big boys. If he were, he would play in one of those roles. There is evidence supporting this.  He is screwing up the roster a bit this year. That is all.

 

I am will to bet he will not see any minutes in critical situations this year.

 

That is your best post about this topic.  Whether I agree or not, it is strictly your opinion and doesn't contain faulty logic.  And yes, I do consider him a FB.  That's what he was drafted as, and that's what he is listed as.  Nothing has occurred to make me feel any different about it.  He could play the HB role, possibly, but our offense has yet to make use of that position.  Juice is not a TE.  I agree he cannot block well enough to play FB in our offense, but I'm not so sure he can't catch well enough to make an impact somehow.  We just haven't installed a package in our offense that he can excel in.  I don't know if we will anytime soon, so I can't really disagree.  I think he's a backup FB who will remain in our active lineup just in case Leach goes down, or one of our RBs goes down and Leach needs more breathers due to a higher workload of carries.

[jimjim5]

That is your best post about this topic.  Whether I agree or not, it is strictly your opinion and doesn't contain faulty logic.  And yes, I do consider him a FB.  That's what he was drafted as, and that's what he is listed as.  Nothing has occurred to make me feel any different about it.  He could play the HB role, possibly, but our offense has yet to make use of that position.  Juice is not a TE.  I agree he cannot block well enough to play FB in our offense, but I'm not so sure he can't catch well enough to make an impact somehow.  We just haven't installed a package in our offense that he can excel in.  I don't know if we will anytime soon, so I can't really disagree.  I think he's a backup FB who will remain in our active lineup just in case Leach goes down, or one of our RBs goes down and Leach needs more breathers due to a higher workload of carries.

 

I said the same thing many posts back. I just phrased it differently. I said, "He ain't ready."

[BmoreInBmore]

Come on dude, no need ruin intelligent discourse with personal attacks.

 

The title of this topic discredits any claim to intelligent discourse. However, it does propagate a circus of inconceivable football acumen. So, come on bro, stop perpetuating filth. 

[reediddy]

Can't help but to start thinking Anquan Boldin got a raw deal. He played his damn tail off for us and was the best wr in the entire playoffs last year by far. No one competes like Q at that position, age may have been becoming a factor but the level of professionalism and skill of Q was never dwindling imo. We rolled the dice on guys like Doss/Deonte/Pitta to step up and we paid for it. Deonte and Pitta's set backs were obviously due to injury but it effects us just the same. I know the money we saved helped us get Doom/Huff but I would rather have Upshaw and Elam starting and still have Boldin at this point. The 49ers figured out a way to get him on the books and they were already absolutely stacked. The defense will straighten itself out and get better as the year goes on. Flacco is the same guy he was during that playoff run, just doesn't have anyone to throw the ball to that can get open or hang on to the ball besides Torrey who will continue to get doubled all game with our  current passing threats surrounding him.

 

I'm gonna say it...Vonta Leach has better hands then Dallas Clark and Ed Dickson and that's pathetic for our 2 starting te's, can't count on either of those 2 to be consistent.. Dickson has NEVER been able to hold onto the ball unless he's in a giant chunk of open real estate.. Marlon Brown will get better as the year goes but Joe still just doesn't have enough fire power to play up to his full potential.

 

Time to make a power play for an offensive weapon via trade at either wr or te.. that's not a knee jerk reaction.. that's brutal honesty the offense got a raw deal as a whole in offseason, didn't add a single instant impact player on that side of the ball and we traded one of our impact players away to the most stacked team in the NFL for a 6th round pick and lost another one to injury. Not gonna cut it, tells me were fine with this being a rebuilding and learning year if we don't make a serious personnel move on offense. Pretty disappointing from a fan's perspective, thought we were gonna make a real run at a repeat. I have no problem with giving Joe a big pay day, I do have a problem with you sending him into the regular season with an underdeveloped supporting cast.

 

Boldin didn't get a raw deal, he was average to below-average for the majority of the regular season last year before going on a monstrous playoff run in conjunction with Joe. FO wanted him to take a pay cut, he refused, he's traded; remember, it's a business.

 

I think the Dallas Clark thing has been blown a little out of proportion. Understand that there will be an adjustment period with him; I know it's hard to, given the chemistry that Kap and Boldin have shown in SF almost immediately, but I'm confident that Clark, given his pedigree, will figure things out sooner than later. Agree with you on Dickson though, he's a lost cause.

 

I agree with you completely on the final point; Joe does not have the supporting cast to make him succeed. Give your QB some weapons! This, arguably, is Ozzie's worst trait as GM, he has not been successful in surrounding his QB's with weapons. RR/Pierce are one thing but Jacoby Jones as a #2 WR (now we have Marlon there) with Stokley (who I love btw) and Dickson and now Doss? A trade needs to be made. A suitor might not be found this early but some sort of acquisition needs to be made. I'd even vote Laurent Robinson; injuries aside the guy is talented

[beanfigger]

I said the same thing many posts back. I just phrased it differently. I said, "He ain't ready."

 

And I never actually disagreed with that opinion.  I just disagreed that the arguments you made to support that opinion actually supported that opinion.

[reediddy]

I feel the need to bring it up, as blasphemous as it is to say, but Ozzie is far better in recognizing talent on the defensive end than he is for the offensive side of the ball. May be obvious to some, but I just felt like I needed to reiterate it. There is far too little talent on the offense.

 

Let me clarify: I like the additions of Stokley and even Clark who I think will bounce back and become a solid contributor. Marlon looks to be a keeper. But #3/4 WR, which is a huge position in today's passing league, is a significant question mark. Stokley is there but Doss? Mellette? Thompson?

[jimjim5]

That is your best post about this topic.  Whether I agree or not, it is strictly your opinion and doesn't contain faulty logic.  And yes, I do consider him a FB.  That's what he was drafted as, and that's what he is listed as.  Nothing has occurred to make me feel any different about it.  He could play the HB role, possibly, but our offense has yet to make use of that position.  Juice is not a TE.  I agree he cannot block well enough to play FB in our offense, but I'm not so sure he can't catch well enough to make an impact somehow.  We just haven't installed a package in our offense that he can excel in.  I don't know if we will anytime soon, so I can't really disagree.  I think he's a backup FB who will remain in our active lineup just in case Leach goes down, or one of our RBs goes down and Leach needs more breathers due to a higher workload of carries.

 

Also, I agree with you that he can catch and maybe get some catches in game situations, but I don't think his frame is ready for the hits, when plaers and coaches dont respect your game, you will get tee'ed-off on, because you can't cause damage. That is the issue we are potentially seeing before our eyes with Clark and Stokely . They cant cause significant damage because of there physical state (speed, power, and explosiveness). If you put him out there before he's physically ready he could get stripped of the ball, rocked and shell-shocked, lose his confidence. etc...

[jimjim5]

I feel the need to bring it up, as blasphemous as it is to say, but Ozzie is far better in recognizing talent on the defensive end than he is for the offensive side of the ball. May be obvious to some, but I just felt like I needed to reiterate it. There is far too little talent on the offense.

 

Let me clarify: I like the additions of Stokley and even Clark who I think will bounce back and become a solid contributor. Marlon looks to be a keeper. But #3/4 WR, which is a huge position in today's passing league, is a significant question mark. Stokley is there but Doss? Mellette? Thompson?

 

I agree from a historical standpoint. But I truly think Ozzie and the FO "get it" now. The FO is fighting against their future options with their elite defensive players (salary vs and the cap vs impact to the team as a whole)

 

What I don't get is why they couldn't see how damaging Boldin could be year two in a Caldwell offense. The problem is the fear of losing our defensive identity. I think they have a plan, and then stated it early that this years draft was a "foundation draft". But if the draft choices and free agents don't hit, we dumped high quality players and a championship caliber team poised for one more good run to the SB for the hope of retooling/ reloading for several runs. I understand it, no one wants to be in Pittsburgh's state right now, but they did make three SB's with that core. I think we are going the opposite way in philosophy, a la the Patriots, but it could backfire badly, because we don't have experience doing it like the Pats. 

[RedFire]

I agree from a historical standpoint. But I truly think Ozzie and the FO "get it" now. The FO is fighting against their future options with their elite defensive players (salary vs and the cap vs impact to the team as a whole)

What I don't get is why they couldn't see how damaging Boldin could be year two in a Caldwell offense. The problem is the fear of losing our defensive identity. I think they have a plan, and then stated it early that this years draft was a "foundation draft". But if the draft choices and free agents don't hit, we dumped high quality players and a championship caliber team poised for one more good run to the SB for the hope of retooling/ reloading for several runs. I understand it, no one wants to be in Pittsburgh's state right now, but they did make three SB's with that core. I think we are going the opposite way in philosophy, a la the Patriots, but it could backfire badly, because we don't have experience doing it like the Pats.

Steelers have coaching and Big Ben conflicts...that's the issue. Offensive coordinator don't let him run around till a fast receiver is wide open. And if he did....they don't have an elite line to hold blocks long enough.

Big Ben was never a stand in pocket read the defense and throw pin point passes. Big Ben games was built on buying time until the CB couldn't stay with the WR.

[jimjim5]

Steelers have coaching and Big Ben conflicts...that's the issue. Offensive coordinator don't let him run around till a fast receiver is wide open. And if he did....they don't have an elite line to hold blocks long enough.

Big Ben was never a stand in pocket read the defense and throw pin point passes. Big Ben games was built on buying time until the CB couldn't stay with the WR.

 

Don't forgot their clutch guy. Big Ben misses Whines Hard more than any other player -  OL or RB.

[billick]

Steelers RB's are slower than mud. They can't get to line of scrimmage.

 

We beat them twice. We will need both wins.

[billick]

Is this a joke? Its bloody week one you fairy. This is a playoff caliber roster. Complete overreaction, we just played the hardest game of the season on the road against a legend; lost, and you declare the roster a mess? Take a chill pill kids, it's a 17 week season. I'd rather have our weakness exposed week one than week 16. This is a talented roster, with great coaches, and a stud front office; *&^% jokers.

You said it Bub, not me.

 

Sorry.

[Poes Crows]

We've owned Cleveland.

 

Beating up on Cleveland has been a rite of passage into the playoffs during the "Harbaugh Era".  It's been the one certainty.

 

They are not a great team. They have a running game, but it's not outstanding. If they run for 100 yards against us it would be a fluke!

 

Their passing game is marginal. Weedon just threw 3 interceptions. (In the 1st half!!!) If they threw for 300 yards against us it would be a fluke!!!

 

If Cleveland got 400 yards total offense at M&T Bank it would be just crazy.

 

If Cleveland beat us in Baltimore it would be against all of man and God's laws. It would mean the cosmos are out of alignment. It would mean that something is terribly wrong. It would mean Pay Cuts for all Raven's Management.

[RedFire]

Steelers RB's are slower than mud. They can't get to line of scrimmage.

We beat them twice. We will need both wins.

Maybe.

Didn't the bungals go 6-0 in the division a few yrs ago and missed the playoffs? Lol.




We need wins early before the steelers possibly gel the 2nd quarter of the season and make a run

win early so we have less pressure and can maybe evade a dog fight to stay injury free come playoff time.

[jimjim5]

Maybe.

Didn't the bungals go 6-0 in the division a few yrs ago and missed the playoffs? Lol.




We need wins early before the steelers possibly gel the 2nd quarter of the season and make a run

win early so we have less pressure and can maybe evade a dog fight to stay injury free come playoff time.

 Steelers are done. Sorry running game for like ever.... No clutch receivers, OL sucked before the Pouncey injury, but most important, they have Todd Haley!!!!

[jimjim5]

Is this a joke? Its bloody week one you fairy. This is a playoff caliber roster. Complete overreaction, we just played the hardest game of the season on the road against a legend; lost, and you declare the roster a mess? Take a chill pill kids, it's a 17 week season. I'd rather have our weakness exposed week one than week 16. This is a talented roster, with great coaches, and a stud front office; Fhuking jokers.

 

 

You said it Bub, not me.

 

Sorry.

 

Billick, you forgot to emphasize the most important words in your point...... Good catch, BTW

[beanfigger]

Maybe.

Didn't the bungals go 6-0 in the division a few yrs ago and missed the playoffs? Lol.




We need wins early before the steelers possibly gel the 2nd quarter of the season and make a run

win early so we have less pressure and can maybe evade a dog fight to stay injury free come playoff time.

I'm pretty sure the Bengals won the division that year. The Raiders went 6-0 in their division a couple seasons ago and missed the playoffs (8-8). I think they're the only team that's done that.

[bpytnjr58]

After reading these posts and listening to sports talk radio the sky has officially fallen in Baltimore after week one!

[ravensdan]

Its very interesting that Media Sources are beginning to broach the subject of Raven Management errors. If next week's Brown's game goes as badly as I'm projecting expect those joining the Mismanagement Chorus to grow exponentially.

Did you all see the Outstanding game Cary Williams played today? We cast him off for a million!!!!...lol

You could have saved Spears, Stokely, Clark, Dumervil and Canty's salary and kept our stars.

But Nooooooooooo....ozzie thought he knew best!

Smart media sources such as Collin cowherd are saying dont underestimate the ravens. Elite front office head coach and qb. And he is spot on. I suppose you. I'm sure you would prefer the jets front office, head coach and qb after their week one w right? If you can't see which teams have superior long term vision for their team and which don't you are clearly misguided. Surface media guys always freak out when these "stars" are let go but they aren't the core to building a team.

[ratedr]

Smart media sources such as Collin cowherd are saying dont underestimate the ravens. Elite front office head coach and qb. And he is spot on. I suppose you. I'm sure you would prefer the jets front office, head coach and qb after their week one w right? If you can't see which teams have superior long term vision for their team and which don't you are clearly misguided. Surface media guys always freak out when these "stars" are let go but they aren't the core to building a team.

What did Colin Cowherd say?

[Bravens292]

Smart media sources such as Collin cowherd are saying dont underestimate the ravens. Elite front office head coach and qb. And he is spot on. I suppose you. I'm sure you would prefer the jets front office, head coach and qb after their week one w right? If you can't see which teams have superior long term vision for their team and which don't you are clearly misguided. Surface media guys always freak out when these "stars" are let go but they aren't the core to building a team.

 

You mean the same colin cowherd who has never had anything positive to say about this team in his life?

[jdynamite]

That article while exaggerating some points, does also make some good points... 5 Safeties is a bit much, even if some are strictly for ST... I wanted Elam to start and have Ihedigbo ST and Reserve safety like last year..... ( still not sure how Omar Brown wasn't one of Four to make it but hey its over )

 

Also Rainey is gone when he clearly could have made roster, I thought Jensen was going on IR like early reports......   

 

Thompson haven't heard any updates on him thats' some foot injury.....

 

I said in the Game-thread that Graham had an excellent year last season, played out of his mind, but I didn't expect the same from him, since he has been predominantly a special teamer... The fact that Jimmy couldn't earn the job kinda made me feel like well..... 

[jdynamite]

You mean the same colin cowherd who has never had anything positive to say about this team in his life?

 

Cowherd pick us a few times in the playoffs last year, he just kept saying they going to do it for Lewis