Article: the roster is a mess, and the coaches are at fault

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

....Idk why I'm still justifying this post. Claiming the defending Super Bowl champs who are and have been the model of consistency for the past 5 years are built with a flawed foundation IS A JOKE! Sure there's been mistakes, but for every mistakes there's 2 solid picks and 1 home run.

Mellette, Marlon Brown, Deonte, Torrey, Pitta - all look to be solid-to-great NFL pass catchers and all drafted with GREAT VALUE by Ozzie.

It was 1 game - and a game we were on track to win until injuries killed us.

 

Thompson and Mellette -  to great huh??? Based what? Not saying they will not develop to that level, but there is no body of work to see this.

 

Thompson and Mellette were not drafted.

 

SOLID-to-great. The SOLID part is where most of those guys fit in.

 

And Mellette was drafted, Brown wasn't.

 

Of course you go right to the one, minor of minor and irrelevant flaws with the post bc theres absolutely nothing else to refute. And btw, if youre getting any contributions from UDFA receivers or 7th round picks id say that's pretty solid contribution.

[jimjim5]

SOLID-to-great. The SOLID part is where most of those guys fit in.

 

And Mellette was drafted, Brown wasn't.

 

Of course you go right to the one, minor of minor and irrelevant flaws with the post bc theres absolutely nothing else to refute. And btw, if youre getting any contributions from UDFA receivers or 7th round picks id say that's pretty solid contribution.

 

Mellette comment was a sleepy post. I meant Brown, you listed Brown as being drafted by Oz.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This is true, however this year I think they drafted for need based on anticipated contracts, retirements, and need

 

Look at this year's draft picks and who these picks replaced. This draft was a straight needs draft, which could majorly backfire

 

Kruger -Simon

Cody - Williams

Ray Ray - Brown

Reed - Elam

Leach - Juice

 

I think Juice is the one that may not work.

 

So Simon was drafted to replace Kruger? Why'd we pick up Dumervil?

 

Cody's still on the team. And we picked up Canty and Spears as FA.

 

Brown is more in the mold of Ellerbe than Ray Ray, and Smith/Bynes are starting.

 

Elam is a SS, not a FS.

 

If these picks were all based on NEED, wouldn't we NEED them to start? Seems to me like youre just connected dots to a player on the roster... which considering every football player has a position, you can tie them to another player on the roster. hmmm kapron lewis-moore was drafted to replace McPhee, and Mellette to replace Boldin, and Marc Anthony to replace Cary Williams. You can point them to a player who's gone or probably will be gone next year, but that doesn't mean they're replacing the player.

 

They were deemed to be the best on their board at the time. Plain and simple. It's not like Ozzie was looking at and said WELL, Adrian Peterson's there, but we're set with Rice and Pierce so lets take this Elam fella who plays sorta like Reed who we NEED TO REPLACE NOW.

 

No, we saw what good deals we could get early in FA. Then we draft BPA, and when you release 10 solid players your draft picks are bound to play some of those positions. But it was BPA whether you want to believe it or not (the only thing I will concede is that if they value 2 players similarly but one is a position of need they will take that guy over the other, but that's still BPA, tie just goes to the more needed). And then after the draft we fill gaps with bargains. It's what we do and have done every year... and its what we'll continue to do and be successful at it.

 

And Juice was drafted to necessitate an offensive scheme shift to more spread out, uptempo passing which doesn't require a bruising FB as much.

 

And that drill where Juice got blown up, he was the only guy taking reps that entire day. He was asked to block on a bunch of goal line plays straight. Of course, eventually youre going to get knocked down when youre asked to bash your head against a wall 20 straight times.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Mellette comment was a sleepy post. I meant Brown, you listed Brown as being drafted by Oz.

 

DT and Brown are UDFA's... you still have to pick the guys and lure them in. Still requires great scouting and talent evaluation - which at its base is what you're arguing the FO has not been doing well enough.

[Stephenjr]

You mean to tell me that you honestly thought a Twitter account where it was posted, "They don't call me the Wizard of Oz for nothing. #keepthefaith," was legit?  Seriously?  He asked people who they wanted the team to draft on Twitter, like any GM would do that.  Seriously dude.

 

 

You assume Juice was drafted to play the traditional FB role a la Leach, which he wasn't.  Leach was brought on because Pitta went down and it necessitated an offensive change.  If we had the weapons we'd be a bit more 3 wide and 12 personnel, but with Pitta down the run had to become emphasized more so we brought back the bruiser.  Juice as a pass catching fullback and a guy you can move around but can also block a bit has value, albeit a bit different from Leach.  His position versatility also helps with formation variation in the no huddle that the Ravens will ultimately run under Jim Caldwell.

So why is the great Juice not playing? Well,because he can't block and is way to small to play TE!!

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

So why is the great Juice not playing? Well,because he can't block and is way to small to play TE!!

 

I guess Elam and Brown are awful too... since theyre not playing either.

[beanfigger]

So why is the great Juice not playing? Well,because he can't block and is way to small to play TE!!

Did any of our draft picks play outside of Wagner as an injury fill-in? Are you saying this whole draft was a mistake?

[Stephenjr]

I guess Elam and Brown are awful too... since theyre not playing either.

Actually they should be after they showed promise in the preseason! Juice showed me that he can't block that is about it!!

[Stephenjr]

Did any of our draft picks play outside of Wagner as an injury fill-in? Are you saying this whole draft was a mistake?

Not at all but Juice showed that he is no way near ready to play in this league as a blocker!! That was my point!!

[T3hRaven]

Did any of our draft picks play outside of Wagner as an injury fill-in? Are you saying this whole draft was a mistake?

Technically Brown and Elam saw the field, but it was mostly in garbage time.

[billick]

Did any of our draft picks play outside of Wagner as an injury fill-in? Are you saying this whole draft was a mistake?

 

What has it produced so far ?

 

It is too early too tell, but we still need WR's and a LT, no matter what any one say. TE ain't lookin so hot either.

 

Were Stoklely and Clark needed ?

 

Why ? Lack of preperation.

[beanfigger]

What has it produced so far ?

 

It is too early too tell, but we still need WR's and a LT, no matter what any one say. TE ain't lookin so hot either.

 

Were Stoklely and Clark needed ?

 

Why ? Lack of preperation.

 

So you're disappointed that the draft a few months ago hasn't produced anything, yet?  If we didn't draft the way we did, we would be super thin at every level of the defense to go along with our needs on offense.  We can't magically fill every hole every year with draft picks.  That's why we needed those FA pickups.  It's not lack of preparation, it's part of the preparation.  What if we drafted a WR and TE and LT in the first three rounds, then we didn't end up landing Daryl Smith in FA and Ngata went down with a camp injury instead of Pitta.  We'd be in about the same position we are now.  You would be condemning the FO for their "lack of preparation" for being forced to pick up cheap guys at DE and LB before the season.  You need to think a little bit more about all the things that happened this offseason, rather than simply focusing on a couple things that didn't go our way, especially the unforeseen issue we had to deal with after Pitta went down.

[Poes Crows]

Its very interesting that Media Sources are beginning to broach the subject of Raven Management errors.  If next week's Brown's game goes as badly as I'm projecting expect those joining the Mismanagement Chorus to grow exponentially.

 

Did you all see the Outstanding game Cary Williams played today?  We cast him off for a million!!!!...lol

 

You could have saved Spears, Stokely, Clark, Dumervil and Canty's salary and kept our stars.

 

But Nooooooooooo....ozzie thought he knew best!

[The Raven]

Its very interesting that Media Sources are beginning to broach the subject of Raven Management errors.  If next week's Brown's game goes as badly as I'm projecting expect those joining the Mismanagement Chorus to grow exponentially.

 

Did you all see the Outstanding game Cary Williams played today?  We cast him off for a million!!!!...lol

 

You could have saved Spears, Stokely, Clark, Dumervil and Canty's salary and kept our stars.

 

But Nooooooooooo....ozzie thought he knew best!

 

Ozzie's management prowess just won a Lombardi. You, however, are irrelevant. 

[SecretAgentMan]

Ozzie's management prowess just won a Lombardi. You, however, are irrelevant. 

That's what an ignore button is for ;)

[Poes Crows]

Ozzie's management prowess just won a Lombardi.

 

You're not addressing the seminal event.  Nobody is criticizing Ozzie for the Championship and it's a canard to try and make that the issue.

 

In case you missed it, the issue is: "Why did Ozzie not appreciate the True Value in the Championship Team?" or in other words...Why did he set out to destroy it?

 

That is the issue that he will have to answer for if the year goes as it appears it's heading.

 

The only consistency we had in Preseason was when Tyrod Taylor was able to dominate the other team's 2nds. The problem has been clear for some time.

 

It's Browns Time and then we'll know the truth.

[PuRock]

You're not addressing the seminal event.  Nobody is criticizing Ozzie for the Championship and it's a canard to try and make that the issue.

 

In case you missed it, the issue is: "Why did Ozzie not appreciate the True Value in the Championship Team?" or in other words...Why did he set out to destroy it?

 

That is the issue that he will have to answer for if the year goes as it appears it's heading.

 

The only consistency we had in Preseason was when Tyrod Taylor was able to dominate the other team's 2nds. The problem has been clear for some time.

 

It's Browns Time and then we'll know the truth.

 

 

What you call destroying, I call preserving our economics to keep us competitive while re-tooling on the fly.  Sorry the payoff hasn't shown in week 1.  But sometimes tough choices need to be made. 

 

 

Counting days to prove you are right is just a disgrace.  Now trot yourself back to the 49ers forum.  

[K-Dog]

And if we beat the Browns then what ?

[beanfigger]

You're not addressing the seminal event.  Nobody is criticizing Ozzie for the Championship and it's a canard to try and make that the issue.

 

In case you missed it, the issue is: "Why did Ozzie not appreciate the True Value in the Championship Team?" or in other words...Why did he set out to destroy it?

 

That is the issue that he will have to answer for if the year goes as it appears it's heading.

 

The only consistency we had in Preseason was when Tyrod Taylor was able to dominate the other team's 2nds. The problem has been clear for some time.

 

It's Browns Time and then we'll know the truth.

 

The Browns and their fans will be very happy if they beat us.  I doubt they'll hold a candle to your ecstasy in that scenario.  You seem to be ready to party for months naked if that happens, dwarfing whatever joy you felt last February.  Honestly, if it turns out you are wrong, and we make the playoffs again, will you even take pleasure in that?  Will it even compare to the utter exuberance you will feel if you get a chance to say, "I told you so," to those who are attempting to support and be positive about our team?  Why are you even on these boards when it is so apparent that you hate everything about the current Ravens team.  The FO, the FA acquisitions, the draft picks... These are all garbage according to you, so just find another team that you can actually root for that might make you happy when they are good, rather than happy when they disappoint.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

....Idk why I'm still justifying this post. Claiming the defending Super Bowl champs who are and have been the model of consistency for the past 5 years are built with a flawed foundation IS A JOKE! Sure there's been mistakes, but for every mistakes there's 2 solid picks and 1 home run.

Mellette, Marlon Brown, Deonte, Torrey, Pitta - all look to be solid-to-great NFL pass catchers and all drafted with GREAT VALUE by Ozzie.

It was 1 game - and a game we were on track to win until injuries killed us.

Thompson and Mellette - to great huh??? Based what? Not saying they will not develop to that level, but there is no body of work to see this.

Thompson and Mellette were not drafted.

Mellette was drafted...

[MrPlankton]

The Browns and their fans will be very happy if they beat us.  I doubt they'll hold a candle to your ecstasy in that scenario.  You seem to be ready to party for months naked if that happens, dwarfing whatever joy you felt last February.  Honestly, if it turns out you are wrong, and we make the playoffs again, will you even take pleasure in that?  Will it even compare to the utter exuberance you will feel if you get a chance to say, "I told you so," to those who are attempting to support and be positive about our team?  Why are you even on these boards when it is so apparent that you hate everything about the current Ravens team.  The FO, the FA acquisitions, the draft picks... These are all garbage according to you, so just find another team that you can actually root for that might make you happy when they are good, rather than happy when they disappoint.

 

Told Stone Creamery

[jimjim5]

Regarding Juice. It's this simple, He was drafted to be a H-Back, Full-Back, TE, correct???? -ok

 

So, If the Ravens release their Pro Bowl FB, but then bring him back after blocking sessions and after a Pitta injury.....What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE?

 

We bring in old vets to fill the pass catching TE role..... What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE and our UDFA TE?

 

We bring back Bajema as our blocking TE...... What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE and our UDFA T/E on the practice squad?

 

We are trying out free agent TE this week. What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE?

 

Logically speaking, it leads to two conclusions:

 

1) The coaching staff has enough evidence to reasonably deduce that Juice is not capable of plugging up the roster hole and doing the job satisfactory right now.  Elam, Wagner, and A Brown played in relief because there was reason to think the were capable of playing at this level NOW. If Juice was ready to fill in a sub role, they would have plugged him in before looking outside of the organization.

 

2) His skill set does not fit the current needs of the organization. Next year, may be a different story. I see him as a role player on ST this year. That is it. After serious time in the weight room in the offseason, maybe he can make some waves.

 

He aint ready. Because of the injuries to roster staples with clear roles - the time put into developing him has turned from a luxury into a roster blunder. I don't see why this is not clear.

[cursona pirate]

Harbs sucks everyone sucks. Fire all of them. Cam cameron should be head coach he did amazing with the Dolphins!

[jimjim5]

I guess Elam and Brown are awful too... since theyre not playing either.

 

Elam and Brown have played. Juice has not.

[beanfigger]

Regarding Juice. It's this simple, He was drafted to be a H-Back, Full-Back, TE, correct???? -ok

 

So, If the Ravens release their Pro Bowl FB, but then bring him back after blocking sessions and after a Pitta injury.....What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE?

 

We bring in old vets to fill the pass catching TE role..... What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE and our UDFA TE?

 

We bring back Bajema as our blocking TE...... What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE and our UDFA T/E on the practice squad?

 

We are trying out free agent TE this week. What does that say about the recently drafted HB/FB/TE?

 

Logically speaking, it leads to two conclusions:

 

1) The coaching staff has enough evidence to reasonably deduce that Juice is not capable of plugging up the roster hole and doing the job satisfactory right now.  Elam, Wagner, and A Brown played in relief because there was reason to think the were capable of playing at this level NOW. If Juice was ready to fill in a sub role, they would have plugged him in before looking outside of the organization.

 

2) His skill set does not fit the current needs of the organization. Next year, may be a different story. I see him as a role player on ST this year. That is it. After serious time in the weight room in the offseason, maybe he can make some waves.

 

He aint ready. Because of the injuries to roster staples with clear roles - the time put into developing him has turned from a luxury into a roster blunder. I don't see why this is not clear.

 

Wagner played because of an injury.  Elam and Brown got some time because they were our top draft picks.  It doesn't say too much about the future of our 5th overall draft pick (second 4th round pick) that he didn't play.  The only picks who got time were our top two picks and an injury fill in.  Juice was the only other draft pick that was even active.  We brought in FAs at all the positions that we drafted for.  If you are condemning Juice for these reasons, you are condemning all of our draft picks.  Maybe the our fifth pick isn't quite ready in Week 1 of his rookie season.  That really doesn't spell doom or anything.  It just shows why he wasn't one of our top two picks.

[jimjim5]

Wagner played because of an injury.  Elam and Brown got some time because they were our top draft picks.  It doesn't say too much about the future of our 5th overall draft pick (second 4th round pick) that he didn't play.  The only picks who got time were our top two picks and an injury fill in.  Juice was the only other draft pick that was even active.  We brought in FAs at all the positions that we drafted for.  If you are condemning Juice for these reasons, you are condemning all of our draft picks.  Maybe the our fifth pick isn't quite ready in Week 1 of his rookie season.  That really doesn't spell doom or anything.  It just shows why he wasn't one of our top two picks.

 

So explain why an UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT WR (M. Brown) played in substitution for the INJURED Jones  this week..........

[jimjim5]

Wagner played because of an injury.  Elam and Brown got some time because they were our top draft picks.  It doesn't say too much about the future of our 5th overall draft pick (second 4th round pick) that he didn't play.  The only picks who got time were our top two picks and an injury fill in.  Juice was the only other draft pick that was even active.  We brought in FAs at all the positions that we drafted for.  If you are condemning Juice for these reasons, you are condemning all of our draft picks.  Maybe the our fifth pick isn't quite ready in Week 1 of his rookie season.  That really doesn't spell doom or anything.  It just shows why he wasn't one of our top two picks.

 

My statement does not infer this conclusion. It is a unfounded assumption that is not based on anything I have posted.

 

I just stated my logical opinion of Juice and only Juice.

 

BTW, for the record.... I WANT JUICE to be the MAN!!!!

[BmoreInBmore]

Is this a joke? Its bloody week one you fairy. This is a playoff caliber roster. Complete overreaction, we just played the hardest game of the season on the road against a legend; lost, and you declare the roster a mess? Take a chill pill kids, it's a 17 week season. I'd rather have our weakness exposed week one than week 16. This is a talented roster, with great coaches, and a stud front office; Fhuking jokers.

[beanfigger]

So explain why an UNDRAFTED FREE AGENT WR (M. Brown) played in substitution for the INJURED Jones this week..........

I believe you just explained it yourself. What does this mean? If Leach got hurt and Juice didn't play, then your argument holds water. I already explained the faults as I see them. You said we brought back Leach as a response to Juice, but we also brought back McKinnie and signed Daryl Smith. By your logic, that is an indictment of Brown and Wagner. You said Juice not getting any PT in Game 1 was another indictment of him, but Simon and Mellette were not even active (nor were Williams and Jensen, but that's an injury issue). I'm saying you can't compare PT by our fifth pick to our top pick, who got mop up duty. What I was saying was that your arguments against Juice could be used against all the other guys who you used as examples to support your points. I know you didn't mean to condemn the whole draft, but I was saying that the whole draft was condemnable by the same "logical" arguments you made.

[BmoreInBmore]

I believe you just explained it yourself. What does this mean? If Leach got hurt and Juice didn't play, then your argument holds water. I already explained the faults as I see them. You said we brought back Leach as a response to Juice, but we also brought back McKinnie and signed Daryl Smith. By your logic, that is an indictment of Brown and Wagner. You said Juice not getting any PT in Game 1 was another indictment of him, but Simon and Mellette were not even active (nor were Williams and Jensen, but that's an injury issue). I'm saying you can't compare PT by our fifth pick to our top pick, who got mop up duty. What I was saying was that your arguments against Juice could be used against all the other guys who you used as examples to support your points. I know you didn't mean to condemn the whole draft, but I was saying that the whole draft was condemnable by the same "logical" arguments you made.

 

Anyone who attempts to judge a rookie class by their first regular season game needs to 1. Give up watching/rooting/supporting the NFL and it's teams 2. Pick a different sport to watch, because you obviously know nothing about football.