Article: the roster is a mess, and the coaches are at fault

[sflegend89]

Can't help but to start thinking Anquan Boldin got a raw deal. He played his damn tail off for us and was the best wr in the entire playoffs last year by far. No one competes like Q at that position, age may have been becoming a factor but the level of professionalism and skill of Q was never dwindling imo. We rolled the dice on guys like Doss/Deonte/Pitta to step up and we paid for it. Deonte and Pitta's set backs were obviously due to injury but it effects us just the same. I know the money we saved helped us get Doom/Huff but I would rather have Upshaw and Elam starting and still have Boldin at this point. The 49ers figured out a way to get him on the books and they were already absolutely stacked. The defense will straighten itself out and get better as the year goes on. Flacco is the same guy he was during that playoff run, just doesn't have anyone to throw the ball to that can get open or hang on to the ball besides Torrey who will continue to get doubled all game with our  current passing threats surrounding him.

 

I'm gonna say it...Vonta Leach has better hands then Dallas Clark and Ed Dickson and that's pathetic for our 2 starting te's, can't count on either of those 2 to be consistent.. Dickson has NEVER been able to hold onto the ball unless he's in a giant chunk of open real estate.. Marlon Brown will get better as the year goes but Joe still just doesn't have enough fire power to play up to his full potential.

 

Time to make a power play for an offensive weapon via trade at either wr or te.. that's not a knee jerk reaction.. that's brutal honesty the offense got a raw deal as a whole in offseason, didn't add a single instant impact player on that side of the ball and we traded one of our impact players away to the most stacked team in the NFL for a 6th round pick and lost another one to injury. Not gonna cut it, tells me were fine with this being a rebuilding and learning year if we don't make a serious personnel move on offense. Pretty disappointing from a fan's perspective, thought we were gonna make a real run at a repeat. I have no problem with giving Joe a big pay day, I do have a problem with you sending him into the regular season with an underdeveloped supporting cast.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

It's really not that bad.

Drops, injuries and ST mistakes killed us - not the far superior play of the opposition. And that was the best team in the AFC we played and we were outplaying them.

We have the roster we just need to clean up mistakes and get healthy.

[ratedr]

Really,go look at Ozzie's twitter profile,He says it himself that he is the future AD!! Ozzie is getting up there in age,and may want a little bit less stress!

Ozzie isn't on Twitter, lol.

[K-Dog]

Read the article!!

 
No.
I aint gonna.
 

It's really not that bad.

Drops, injuries and ST mistakes killed us - not the far superior play of the opposition. And that was the best team in the AFC we played and we were outplaying them.

We have the roster we just need to clean up mistakes and get healthy.

Thank you sir.

If you are gonna loose to ANY ONE, who better than Peyton Manning.
Now if the Bills or the Browns walk all over us and score seven touch downs then lets ALL get on here and have a hissy fit. In the mean time lets sit back and watch the adjustments be made.

[PuRock]

It's really not that bad.

Drops, injuries and ST mistakes killed us - not the far superior play of the opposition. And that was the best team in the AFC we played and we were outplaying them.

We have the roster we just need to clean up mistakes and get healthy.

 

I'll also add in lack of communication and chemistry in the secondary.  Which will get better with time.  

 

During the first half of that game, we WERE the better the team.  I also think being the first game (where we go full go for a long period of time) and the high altitude played a part on our energy levels.  

 

We aren't a bad team, and our roster isn't a mess.

[SecretAgentMan]

I'll also add in lack of communication and chemistry in the secondary. Which will get better with time.

During the first half of that game, we WERE the better the team. I also think being the first game (where we go full go for a long period of time) and the high altitude played a part on our energy levels.

We aren't a bad team, and our roster isn't a mess.

Post of the year

+50000

[PuRock]

 
No.
I aint gonna.
 

Thank you sir.

If you are gonna loose to ANY ONE, who better than Peyton Manning.
Now if the Bills or the Browns walk all over us and score seven touch downs then lets ALL get on here and have a hissy fit. In the mean time lets sit back and watch the adjustments be made.

 

What's funny is the sentiment.  Let's say Clark catches the ball, we challenge the play, our guys maintain their energy levels in the high altitude, other things go right and the outcome is different (we win).  

 

Would everyone on here be like "We won despite being a bad team"?  No.  quite the opposite.  Its one game.  No time to panic.  Losing happens.  But we were holding our own Thursday night fine before 'the problems'.  

[K-Dog]

What's funny is the sentiment.  Let's say Clark catches the ball, we challenge the play, our guys maintain their energy levels in the high altitude, other things go right and the outcome is different (we win).  

 

Would everyone on here be like "We won despite being a bad team"?  No.  quite the opposite.  Its one game.  No time to panic.  Losing happens.  But we were holding our own Thursday night fine before 'the problems'.  

 

I wish I was as smart as you....

 

Pretty brilliant post.

 

I wonder what, other responses might come to this post.

[rmw10]

I wish I was as smart as you....

 

Pretty brilliant post.

 

I wonder what, other responses might come to this post.

 

More delusional jibberish, of course.

[SecretAgentMan]

More delusional jibberish, of course.

Ozzie isn't good enough

[PuRock]

I wish I was as smart as you....

 

Pretty brilliant post.

 

I wonder what, other responses might come to this post.

 

I'll just be labeled a homer and overly optimistic.  But the fact of the matter is that this team has given me little to doubt about the last several years (including a SB).  Which is why I always tend to come across as an optimistic poster.

 

When its time for us to throw in the towel, I'll throw in the towel, but we are far from that point.  In 2007 when we were losing games left and right, I was all about examining our team and the direction we were heading. Winning a SB and losing one game, is hardly a cause for drastic changes.  Stay patient and continue on course.  

[rmw10]

Ozzie isn't good enough

 

Exactly.  Time to give him a pay cut.  How does that even solve the (nonexistent) problem?  People blow my mind.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

Exactly. Time to give him a pay cut. How does that even solve the (nonexistent) problem? People blow my mind.

Then we can trade Rice for Boldin

[PuRock]

Exactly.  Time to give him a pay cut.  How does that even solve the (nonexistent) problem?  People blow my mind.

 

 

 

If I am at work and my boss decides to give me a pay cut, would that motivate me to work harder?  No.  I'd be looking for another job and posting on the message board more.  

 

I say give Ozzie a raise!

[rmw10]

If I am at work and my boss decides to give me a pay cut, would that motivate me to work harder?  No.  I'd be looking for another job and posting on the message board more.  

 

I say give Ozzie a raise!

 

Could you imagine that discussion?

 

Bisciotti: "Hey Ozzie, I know you've built a team that has made the playoffs for the past 5 years.  Hey, you were even lucky enough to get a Super Bowl last year.  However, the team you gave us this year had one bad game, so we're going to have to ask you to take a pay cut.  If you decline, we'll gladly let you walk because there's some guy on the internet that has all of these genius ideas.  He's clearly the future of this organization, but we're going to be generous and keep you around if you reduce your salary.  So, what's it going to be, Ozzie?"

[PuRock]

Could you imagine that discussion?

 

Bisciotti: "Hey Ozzie, I know you've built a team that has made the playoffs for the past 5 years.  Hey, you were even lucky enough to get a Super Bowl last year.  However, the team you gave us this year had one bad game, so we're going to have to ask you to take a pay cut.  If you decline, we'll gladly let you walk because there's some guy on the internet that has all of these genius ideas.  He's clearly the future of this organization, but we're going to be generous and keep you around if you reduce your salary.  So, what's it going to be, Ozzie?"

 

That's too light.   "You have to take this pay cut or else we are going to have to 'Cut' you."

[beanfigger]

I can't believe people think our team is such a mess after that game.  If we played the Broncos again tomorrow, I wouldn't even be too worried.  It looked worse than it actually was, just like last year.  A couple of missed opportunities that cost us a chance to have the ball in good field position up a touchdown in the third quarter.  I really want to play a couple more games before I label anything that happened a trend or characteristic of our team.

[Ravenslifer]

I still think it would have been wise to draft a receiver or tight end early this year, but other than that I don't see where this roster is a mess.  If Pitta, Thompson, and Jacoby don't get injured we are probably still in pretty good shape overall, and who's going to predict that - we'd have had Torrey, Jacoby, Pitta, Dickson, Stoke, Mallette, Brown, Thompson - I'd say that's a pretty good group overall.   As far as safeties over corners, my guess on that was that there was just too much talent at safety and not enough at corner to justify keeping more corners than safeties.  I believe the motto around here is BPA.

[PuRock]

I still think it would have been wise to draft a receiver or tight end early this year, but other than that I don't see where this roster is a mess.

 

Sometimes it just depends on how the draft goes.  We had quite a few needs during the draft and we got good value for both Elam and Brown.  There could have been WRs and TEs the FO liked but got taken before we picked, and they weren't going to take a guy they didn't like, or reach for someone just to fill a void.  

[Ravenslifer]

PuRock, on 07 Sept 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

Sometimes it just depends on how the draft goes. We had quite a few needs during the draft and we got good value for both Elam and Brown. There could have been WRs and TEs the FO liked but got taken before we picked, and they weren't going to take a guy they didn't like, or reach for someone just to fill a void.

True, but in my mind if I've just given up a big-time playmaker in Q (regardless of his overall numbers, he was one of 2 guys Joe trusted implicitly, and I think that's huge), I would have tried to somehow make up for it. That's what I would have done. But I do know for a fact Ozzie mentioned a receiver and a tight end that each were taken in the third round before they could fall to us.

I guess part of me is always frustrated that Joe gets compared to a guy in Atlanta who has 2 first round receivers, a 3rd round receiver, and a HOF tight end, and another guy in Cinci who has 2 first round tight ends, a first round receiver, and a third round receiver, all drafted in the last 3 years, while in 6 drafts Joe has gotten 1 second round receiver and 1 third round tight end.

I'm sure it's not true, but sometimes in my darker moments it just seems like the front office goes out of their way to avoid drafting receivers until we absolutely need them i.e. 2009 "we're fine at receiver", 2010 "we want veteran receivers", 2011 they finally draft Torrey, and he turns out to be a big time success. I just think if they tried it one more time (especially considering how often other teams do it, and how important offensive firepower has become to winning Superbowls), we'd be set for a good while.

[ravens533]

The only thing I see really worrisome is the TE situation. And even that would have been okay if JJ had not gotten injured. The good thing is Brown is now playing. Stokley did catch most of the balls that were coming his way. If you go back and really look at the game without all the emotions getting in the way, you will see that we have a good team right now. There were some miss matches at the line a couple of times. There were blown coverages sometimes, but practice will help. Now that they have played a game together, the coaches and players know where to concentrate their efforts for next week. You try going to Denver and running sprints for even 30 minutes when you live and work at sea level and tell me how you would do? Our guys played two good quarters, one okay quarter and then about 10 min. of the other quarter was a mess. Not bad for a first game with a lot of new guys that have to learn to work together and let the chemistry gel. We just happen to have been playing against a team that was together last year and added another receiver during the off season. Give the players and coaches at least two more games before you scream the sky is falling.

[K-Dog]

God I love this place after a loss.

SMH

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Omg a string of positive posts!!!

[ravens533]

I would also like to address the overall assumption of the topic title - The roster is a mess and it is the coaches fault.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. 

 

Did the FO and the coaches know that  Pitta was going to be injured badly when they made their off season moves? No.

 

 Did the FO and coaches know that Dickson can catch passes all day long in practice but refuses  to concentrate and catch one in a game when he had been  showing improvement all through training camp? No. But I think they will address that problem before our next game.

 

Did the FO and coaches know we were in trouble when Pitta went down? Yes and went looking for the best player(s) to plug into the system with only 2 weeks before the season? That is why they got Clark and Stokely. Stokely is working out well and hopefully Clark just needs a little more time.

 

Did the coaches think that Jones would go down in the first game? No but at least they had worked with our young receivers and Brown was able to step up and contribute in his first game.

 

The only area where we really are thin in the depth chart showed up on Thurs. when Oher went down. We are short on the O-line. I am sure that Ricky Wagner will get some extra help in understanding how to keep from being just pushed aside.

 

So, in conclusion, I do not think the roster is a mess. And I believe that our coaches are doing well. Call me an optimums for having faith in a FO and coaches that have taken us to the playoffs for 5 straight years.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

 ok I can only take so much negativity show me some positives and if you can't shut up because you can not do anything about it as a Fan right now your a monday morning coach /oc /Pd/gm .  Honestly I would love to repeat but I also see the value of a 9-7 season - some one post the draft class deep positions .

[Guest RBates]

He already got Andy Reid Fired from Philly, well not completely but he sure as heck helped.

Perk look we can agree on something.....lol

[Sizzlebshu]

I would also like to address the overall assumption of the topic title - The roster is a mess and it is the coaches fault.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. 

 

Did the FO and the coaches know that  Pitta was going to be injured badly when they made their off season moves? No.

 

 Did the FO and coaches know that Dickson can catch passes all day long in practice but refuses  to concentrate and catch one in a game when he had been  showing improvement all through training camp? No. But I think they will address that problem before our next game.

 

Did the FO and coaches know we were in trouble when Pitta went down? Yes and went looking for the best player(s) to plug into the system with only 2 weeks before the season? That is why they got Clark and Stokely. Stokely is working out well and hopefully Clark just needs a little more time.

 

Did the coaches think that Jones would go down in the first game? No but at least they had worked with our young receivers and Brown was able to step up and contribute in his first game.

 

The only area where we really are thin in the depth chart showed up on Thurs. when Oher went down. We are short on the O-line. I am sure that Ricky Wagner will get some extra help in understanding how to keep from being just pushed aside.

 

So, in conclusion, I do not think the roster is a mess. And I believe that our coaches are doing well. Call me an optimums for having faith in a FO and coaches that have taken us to the playoffs for 5 straight years.

Let me counter the above with things the front office did know and chose to do nothing about (for several years in fact) 

 

1. Did the Front Office know receivers were a problem?

 

Yes they did, we havent had a 1000 yard receiver in god knows how long (Mason in 07 I believe which speaks to how desperate we are). In 16 years as a franchise, you can probably count the number of 1000 yard receivers we have had on one hand. Hint its one finger

 

This article highlights something very important ie a possible reason why we don't have consistent playmakers at the position

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/26387/ravens-struggle-drafting-receivers

 

Ozzie has only invested a 1st round pick at WR once in his 16 year tenure. He has invested a second a total of two times. The rest of the time he has tried and failed to play bargain hunter at the position. Theres a saying that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well this describes Ozzie with receiver. He busted with a 1st round receiver once and has been completely adverse to spending a first on one again. This severely limits his ability to find a quality talent at the position. Im not saying a wide receiver needs to go int he first to be good, but first round picks are the most nfl ready guys usually and do project to do well in the nfl. The later round, the less likely they are to pan out and Ozzie has mainly taken mid-late talent at the position. When you look at this, its no wonder we don't have consistent options at the position

 

2. The Front Office apparently did know Dickson couldn't catch in games because they have had him since 2010 and he has been dropping passes since 2011. This is documented fact. However, Ozzie never wants to give up on a draft pick and admit it didn't work which results in guys like Dickson and Doss overstaying their ability on this team. So you're point is extremely invalid here. 

 

3. The Front Office knew it had 0 receiving depth behind Pitta Rice and Torrey. They HOPED Dickson and crew could step it up, but ideally they would have liked to avoid having that scenario occur. However, once again Ozzie did not invest in quality backups (really we needed starters) at the skill positions and thus we rolled with an undrafted FA and 6th round selection as our backups and they got abused rightfully so (brown did well for a udfa, but was nothing special). We also started two players who probably shouldn't have jobs in the nfl anymore, but do out of desperation by Ozzie.

 

The roster isn't a mess because we got rid of Boldin or lost Pitta. Its a mess by design. Ozzie invests all our high quality talent and money into the defense and tries to play bargain hunter on offense. Sometimes it works, and other times it blows up in his face.  

[ravens533]

Sizzlebshu, you are right about Ozzie and receivers. I will grant that he does not do well in getting quality receivers in the draft. This is the first time that I know of that it is really biting us in the a**. I just choice to have hope that we can work with what we have. Do I think we have the best receiving core around. No. What we have will muddle through and get better over time - except for Dickson. We will need to wait and see how the other receivers work out before we call it a complete disaster. I hope that Ozzie will focus on receivers and the offense next year. If there is more history than since 2009, I do not know about it. I just choose to be optimistic that it will work out. No, I don't have facts to back it up. Just me being the eternal glass half full kind of person as far as my faith in the team that I love. I am the same way about people I love - I just really really don't like people talking down about them.  (even if what they say has some truth to it) ^_^  Can we just agree to the fact we are looking at it from different perspectives?

[ratedr]

Let me counter the above with things the front office did know and chose to do nothing about (for several years in fact)

1. Did the Front Office know receivers were a problem?

Yes they did, we havent had a 1000 yard receiver in god knows how long (Mason in 07 I believe which speaks to how desperate we are). In 16 years as a franchise, you can probably count the number of 1000 yard receivers we have had on one hand. Hint its one finger

This article highlights something very important ie a possible reason why we don't have consistent playmakers at the position

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/26387/ravens-struggle-drafting-receivers

Ozzie has only invested a 1st round pick at WR once in his 16 year tenure. He has invested a second a total of two times. The rest of the time he has tried and failed to play bargain hunter at the position. Theres a saying that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well this describes Ozzie with receiver. He busted with a 1st round receiver once and has been completely adverse to spending a first on one again. This severely limits his ability to find a quality talent at the position. Im not saying a wide receiver needs to go int he first to be good, but first round picks are the most nfl ready guys usually and do project to do well in the nfl. The later round, the less likely they are to pan out and Ozzie has mainly taken mid-late talent at the position. When you look at this, its no wonder we don't have consistent options at the position

2. The Front Office apparently did know Dickson couldn't catch in games because they have had him since 2010 and he has been dropping passes since 2011. This is documented fact. However, Ozzie never wants to give up on a draft pick and admit it didn't work which results in guys like Dickson and Doss overstaying their ability on this team. So you're point is extremely invalid here.

3. The Front Office knew it had 0 receiving depth behind Pitta Rice and Torrey. They HOPED Dickson and crew could step it up, but ideally they would have liked to avoid having that scenario occur. However, once again Ozzie did not invest in quality backups (really we needed starters) at the skill positions and thus we rolled with an undrafted FA and 6th round selection as our backups and they got abused rightfully so (brown did well for a udfa, but was nothing special). We also started two players who probably shouldn't have jobs in the nfl anymore, but do out of desperation by Ozzie.

The roster isn't a mess because we got rid of Boldin or lost Pitta. Its a mess by design. Ozzie invests all our high quality talent and money into the defense and tries to play bargain hunter on offense. Sometimes it works, and other times it blows up in his face.

Excellent post.

[rlh445]

I think this sums up our current situation pretty well:

 

 

I'm just sayin'. You know?

 

now i'm hungry and I want to eat some pizza, break out the snes and play some mkII