Drafting a tweener - Kyle Jusczyk

[jimjim5]

Does anbody else see the problem the Ravens caused themselves by drafting a undersized tweener  FB/H-back/TE so high (4th rd) that IMO is not (yet) ready to contribute at any phase of the game??

 

It's like having two Dallas Clark's on the team. Kyle must get stronger. He bascially took a postion that could have been given to Furstenburg, Rainey, or Omar Brown.

 

My opinion is that he is reach draft pick - a Caldwell pick to replicate Indy's old system. I believe that needing to keep him on the roster really screwed up the depth across the team.

 

If Kyle was ready, Leach or Dallas wouldn't be needed on the team righ now. The team could have more team depth. I think this move really weakened the depth of the team.

 

Thoughts???

[Cawtious]

He's a rookie.  Give the man a chance to learn the system

[Bltravens]

Not even close, what hurts Juice is he came from the Ivy leagues. When he's fully acclimated to the NFL he's going to be an interesting weapon for Caldwell to use. And he'll actually free up a roster spot because then we won't need 3TEs, we'll have our blocking TE/Hback weapon in Juice.

[SirPainsalot]

... Not really... He's a backup at FB and TE...

He's versatile, so I don't see how he takes up a depth spot.

He has good receiving hands as well.

[akacrow]

The point of skill position player on offense is to present an exploitable mismatch.  An H-back or a "move" tightend, is a player who uses his size to box out defenders and speed.

 

Here is a good article on 12 personnel and a small excerpt that explains the methodology. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8298aeb2/article/two-tight-end-formations-will-hit-nfl-by-storm-in-2012

 

  

"If the defense remains in base personnel, the H-back enjoys a significant advantage over a linebacker lacking the agility to stay close in coverage. If the defensive coordinator uses nickel personnel, the H-back uses his superior size to post up smaller defenders in space.

 

In the past, offensive coordinators would employ this tactic primarily in the red zone, but more play-callers are taking advantage of these matchups by aligning the tight end in a wide position to get him isolated on linebackers or defensive backs in space. The quarterback will capitalize on the matchup by targeting the tight end on fades (back-shoulder fades) and slants. Given the superior size advantage, this becomes a high-percentage throw that is nearly indefensible."

 

 

Kyle Juszczyk does not present the same physical skill set to present such match up problems for a defense.  Kyle is not a bigger target, he cannot post up on defensive backs, and he can't block players out with a huge catch radius.

 

Juszczyk is best used as a fullback in the mold of the 49ers Tom Rathman.  An athletic pass catching fullback who can also lead block forces a defense to play in heavy formations to prevent the run.   This leaves match ups against linebackers out of the back field, hopefully isolating slower less agile OLBs in coverage.    

[AsianRice]

We need to try him for TE slot for our next stop against the Browns....

[raylewislapsu]

He seemed to have a real presence on STs and has versatility and upside, and when you get to the bottom of the 4th Rd. taking a "luxury" player is acceptable. I like Vonta but having both him and Juice makes little sense to me. I think paying Leach and trading Boldin was a haunting mistake. I am concerned with Ozzie's indifference to draft or sign true offensive playmakers. We could have restructured some contracts to find room to keep Anquan. Defenses are not losing sleep when they come to play against ths offense, pack the box and double Torrey. Preseason woes spill over to the regular season. How can they move forward with two over the hill slow, possession receivers and a WR core made up of mostly undrafted /7th rounder? This loss was reflective of the front office and coaching decision making.

[jimjim5]

... Not really... He's a backup at FB and TE...

He's versatile, so I don't see how he takes up a depth spot.

He has good receiving hands as well.

 

Ok, well....why did we need to bring in Leach and resign Bajema, if he could block so well? Why did we have to bring in Shaincoe and Clark for depth and minutes if he could fill a serviceable role as a pass-catching TE right now?

[akacrow]

Which DB in the game would not be able to cover a 6' tall 250 pound TE running 4.7 out of the slot?  

[jimjim5]

 

 

Kyle Juszczyk does not present the same physical skill set to present such match up problems for a defense.  Kyle is not a bigger target, he cannot post up on defensive backs, and he can't block players out with a huge catch radius.

 

Juszczyk is best used as a fullback in the mold of the 49ers Tom Rathman.  An athletic pass catching fullback who can also lead block forces a defense to play in heavy formations to prevent the run.   This leaves match ups against linebackers out of the back field, hopefully isolating slower less agile OLBs in coverage.    

 

My point exactly.

However, if he could fill the role like a Rathman, Leach would not be here right now. We would have another roster spot free (not that I don't love me some Leach).  Remember, the team brought Leach back after a practice were Jusczyk got blown up by Ihedigbo rushing the QB on a blitz.

 

We could have another skill player or big ugly right now that could negate the loss of Jacoby or Oher.

[Jalxsu]

Ok, well....why did we need to bring in Leach and resign Bajema, if he could block so well? Why did we have to bring in Shaincoe and Clark for depth and minutes if he could fill a serviceable role as a pass-catching TE right now?

 

Because he is there to be a BACK UP

 

You don't expect a 4th rounder to make a huge impact right away on offense, although he is looking very solid on special teams (a very important part of the game). Juice isn't the only guy on the roster who will primarily play on ST by any means.

 

In college, he primarily played TE. He was playing in the Ivy League, not exactly the SEC, so he is learning how to play FB from the best in the league.

 

I'm not expecting us to have Leach next season, so hopefully by then, Juice should be a fairly solid starter. 

 

He'll play a little on offense, but this season is mainly for him to develop. I think eventually he'll give us something completely different to what we have, and I'm looking forward to seeing it!

 

Remember, we made these draft picks before Pitta got injured. He wasn't brought in as his replacement. In hindsight, maybe we could have used an extra WR/OL, but we can't anticipate who will be injured and when.

[bMore Heathen]

We still haven't seen enough from him. The only place we had him lining up in the preseason was FB. I don't think he's a FB. If they planed on using him as a H-back/TE, they should have given him reps there. He isn't as good as Allen in the return game, so unless his role changes in the coming weeks, we won't see much of an impact out of him.

It's not that I don't like picking him, I don't like the way we are using him. With only 4 WRs active (and one of them getting hurt early), we could have used him in the passing game a lot more.

[izvoodoo]

Dude...

 

It's the first game.

 

 

Of his rookie year.

[jimjim5]

....Remember, we made these draft picks before Pitta got injured. He wasn't brought in as his replacement. In hindsight, maybe we could have used an extra WR/OL, but we can't anticipate who will be injured and when.

 

Good point.
 

[T3hRaven]

One player is not going to make that much of a difference in terms of roster depth, and I believe we're still short a rb we don't need to give him that spot.

[akacrow]

My point exactly.

However, if he could fill the role like a Rathman, Leach would not be here right now. We would have another roster spot free (not that I don't love me some Leach).  Remember, the team brought Leach back after a practice were Jusczyk got blown up by Ihedigbo rushing the QB on a blitz.

 

We could have another skill player or big ugly right now that could negate the loss of Jacoby or Oher.

 

What offensive lineman or skill player is the front office going to add to the bottom of the roster who is going to make an impact? 

[Brandon22]

Kyle J needs to be moved to the tight end position with dickson and make leach the sole FB cut clark at promote Furtsenburg to the active roster

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Which DB in the game would not be able to cover a 6' tall 250 pound TE running 4.7 out of the slot?

You just described a heavier Boldin physically...

[jimjim5]

What offensive lineman or skill player is the front office going to add to the bottom of the roster who is going to make an impact? 

 

Offensive linemen: Could have kept Harewood . Harewood was a 6 game starter last year. Harewood would have allowed Osmele to  move to right tackle when Oher got hurt. Or Reid could have been active w/o thatspot being taken.

 

Skill player: (with Jacoby and and D. Thompson hurt) B. Rainey or D. Reed for ST returns, or could have kept Doss for slot potential, ST returns (regardless of what you may think of him), or as old man insurance with Stokely. Stokely is slowwwww.

 

or A. Allen would have stayed. (we wouldn't have had that blocked punt with him in vs. Arthur Brown. filed a needed role for third RB as insurance too.

[jimjim5]

Kyle J needs to be moved to the tight end position with dickson and make leach the sole FB cut clark at promote Furtsenburg to the active roster

Kyle needs to be moved to inactive.

[jimjim5]

One player is not going to make that much of a difference in terms of roster depth, and I believe we're still short a rb we don't need to give him that spot.

 

I think you are totally wrong here. Your post is a bit contradictory. Your second sentence supports my case. Could you clarify if I am wrong here?

[jimjim5]

You just described a heavier Boldin physically...

 

Difference between Boldin and Juice is that Boldin is freakishly strong and explosive. He's a bully. He's still explosive even though he has slowed down in his years.

[redlobster]

Because he is there to be a BACK UP

 

You don't expect a 4th rounder to make a huge impact right away on offense, although he is looking very solid on special teams (a very important part of the game). Juice isn't the only guy on the roster who will primarily play on ST by any means.

 

In college, he primarily played TE. He was playing in the Ivy League, not exactly the SEC, so he is learning how to play FB from the best in the league.

 

I'm not expecting us to have Leach next season, so hopefully by then, Juice should be a fairly solid starter. 

 

He'll play a little on offense, but this season is mainly for him to develop. I think eventually he'll give us something completely different to what we have, and I'm looking forward to seeing it!

 

Remember, we made these draft picks before Pitta got injured. He wasn't brought in as his replacement. In hindsight, maybe we could have used an extra WR/OL, but we can't anticipate who will be injured and when.

 

Not to mention that two picks before Juice, the niners took Quinton Patton, I personally think the Ravens (who had the next two picks) probably would have taken patton and john simon instead of simon and juice. I did want to see him playing last night though and giving the depleated receivers a break

[billick]

I do not see what he has brought to the Ravens. He will stick around because they do not like to admit mistakes.

 

I believe this whole off season was a big waste. It would have been better to have replacemants for Ray and Ed on the roster. If we are not 3-3 after the Packers game, it may be time to play some draft picks. There is no reason to write off the season, but we need to play our draft picks sooner than usual.

 

This is easily the weakest team since John and Joe have been here. This is not a great Ravens team.

 

We still do not have a left tackle. Why ?

[ratedr]

I do not see what he has brought to the Ravens. He will stick around because they do not like to admit mistakes.

I believe this whole off season was a big waste. It would have been better to have replacemants for Ray and Ed on the roster. If we are not 3-3 after the Packers game, it may be time to play some draft picks. There is no reason to write off the season, but we need to play our draft picks sooner than usual.

This is easily the weakest team since John and Joe have been here. This is not a great Ravens team.

We still do not have a left tackle. Why ?

I agree completely. The roster is a total mess.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Difference between Boldin and Juice is that Boldin is freakishly strong and explosive. He's a bully. He's still explosive even though he has slowed down in his years.

You haven't seen Kyle with a chance yet so you can't fairly judge him until that point.

[jimjim5]

You haven't seen Kyle with a chance yet so you can't fairly judge him until that point.

 

Juice is not strong (relatively speaking) or explosive. If he were right now, he would get some burn. Fact.

 

I am really focusing on his roster impact in 2013 more than measurables right now though.

[rmw10]

Are you really expecting Juice to contribute immediately?  Not all rookies come in and light the world on fire from day one.  Give him some time before you consider him a wasted pick.  Despite his measurables, I'm sure that they have ways of getting him on the field and maximizing his value.

[krrock10]

I'm cool with Kyle at this point.  I mean Dickson still cant catch and it his 4th year in the league.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Juice is not strong (relatively speaking) or explosive. If he were right now, he would get some burn. Fact.

Lol, not a fact. Facts can be substantiated. For example if you wanted to use the combine to try and substantiate the fact you would see that Juice outperformed Boldin in just about every area. If you wanted to use his Harvard tape you would see that he bullied everyone on the defense. You don't have much to judge Juice off of that would support your idea. We have had plenty of players in our team's history that didn't get the playing time they deserved. So I'm not quite sure how you make these claims so confidently.