Continuing issue: The run game

[gabefergy]

And teams with that philosophy are usually having Superbowl parties.......................................... at their house.

So you think teams should run the ball on first down 100% of the time? 50% of the time still means we run the ball on first down half the time in case math isn't your strong suit. When you diverge from that number all it does is make your offense predictable.

[jimjim5]

So you think teams should run the ball on first down 100% of the time? 50% of the time still means we run the ball on first down half the time in case math isn't your strong suit. When you diverge from that number all it does is make your offense predictable.

 

Re-read my post. Where and when do I say any team should run the ball on first down 100% of the time???

[gabefergy]

Re-read my post. Where and when do I say any team should run the ball on first down 100% of the time???

No where, but you seem to recoil at the idea of having balanced play-calling. 50% pass:run ratio keeps the defense off balance and the stats don't lie - passing results in a higher yards per play performance. First down is also the highest percentage of completion for any down.

[jimjim5]

the point of my post is basically, run, run, pass is a perfect game plan - when executed right. If the Ravens perfectly executed a run, run, pass, or run, run, run gameplan.... It would take us to the SB. Stats don't win games- first downs, dominance, and scoring do. Hell, if pass, run, run works - so be it. But
looking at our team, the Ravens must play to their strengths. Or better yet, establish a strength. The
Raven must establish a run game to compete and win. Period. Pass first team we are not - yet.

BTW, I have no issue with balance, but when your passing game is a work in progress - go to your bread and butter - the run game. I Ravens are a hard nosed run oreited team. They should never deviate to far from the mean, look were that got the Steelers.

No where, but you seem to recoil at the idea of having balanced play-calling. 50% pass:run ratio keeps the defense off balance and the stats don't lie - passing results in a higher yards per play performance. First down is also the highest percentage of completion for any down.

[izvoodoo]

the point of my post is basically, run, run, pass is a perfect game plan - when executed right. If the Ravens perfectly executed a run, run, pass, or run, run, run gameplan.... It would take us to the SB. Stats don't win games- first downs, dominance, and scoring do. Hell, if pass, run, run works - so be it. But
looking at our team, the Ravens must play to their strengths. Or better yet, establish a strength. The
Raven must establish a run game to compete and win. Period. Pass first team we are not - yet.

BTW, I have no issue with balance, but when your passing game is a work in progress - go to your bread and butter - the run game. I Ravens are a hard nosed run oreited team. They should never deviate to far from the mean, look were that got the Steelers.
 

To say the run game is working is a gross misuse of the word working.

[jimjim5]

To say the run game is working is a gross misuse of the word running.

it not. But it has to work... They must fix it, or the Raven will have a dispointing season. That is my point.

[gabefergy]

the point of my post is basically, run, run, pass is a perfect game plan - when executed right. If the Ravens perfectly executed a run, run, pass, or run, run, run gameplan.... It would take us to the SB. Stats don't win games- first downs, dominance, and scoring do. Hell, if pass, run, run works - so be it. But
looking at our team, the Ravens must play to their strengths. Or better yet, establish a strength. The
Raven must establish a run game to compete and win. Period. Pass first team we are not - yet.

BTW, I have no issue with balance, but when your passing game is a work in progress - go to your bread and butter - the run game. I Ravens are a hard nosed run oreited team. They should never deviate to far from the mean, look were that got the Steelers.

Sure, if the running game is working. But its not. We are much better passing the ball so far this season. If we are averaging 4 ypc on first down runs I'm all for that, but the run game is averaging closer to 2 ypc on first down and it is constantly putting us in 3rd and longs. Part of the reason why the run game gets stuffed is because we are so predictable about it. We run into 8 man boxes a lot and it is not working.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Ofc the ypc for run game is going to be lower than passing.  But It's already been debated why running game is such a key component to Ravens winning games.

 

Even if the run game doesn't outproduce vs. pass game, the point of running the game is that it kills a lot of time on TOP, while passing can leave time on opponent's side.  It also wears out the opponents front 7, putting less pressure on the QB to make some passes.

[arnie_uk]

The issue is not the amount of runs, it's the predictability of it. 78 percent of our first down plays were runs, that has to be closer to 50 50

[jimjim5]

The issue is not the amount of runs, it's the predictability of it. 78 percent of our first down plays were runs, that has to be closer to 50 50

no it does not. Nothing demoralizes a team more than not being able to stop what you know is coming. That is how the Ravens have been so good over the past 3 years.

[gabefergy]

no it does not. Nothing demoralizes a team more than not being able to stop what you know is coming. That is how the Ravens have been so good over the past 3 years.

The difference is the opposition has been able to stop it and this isn't the same running game the Ravens have had in the past. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

[jimjim5]

Your problem is that you are looking at solutions to mask a weakness. I am looking at fixing the execution issues and getting the run game on track.

you are trying to argue a point that I don't necessarily disagree with, however your thoughts are short-sighted. With no effective run game and the Ravens not running their brand and style to fix it, they will be nothing good. Having a 50/50 run-pass distribution work beautifully is predicated on running effectively, whether it is first, second, or third down. Try pass, pass, run or pass, run pass, or run, pass, pass or pass, run, run or...... Whatever. Whatever combo... The Ravens scheme will not work without the run game being effective. Period.

The difference is the opposition has been able to stop it and this isn't the same running game the Ravens have had in the past. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

[callahan09]

So through 6 games we have earned 436 yards on the ground on 159 attempts.  That's an average of 2.74 yards per attempt.

 

This is unacceptable.

 

The defenses we have faced rank (in order of yards per attempt allowed): 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 12th, 17th, 20th.  So we have faced 3 top 5 defenses in this regard, and 3 sort of middle of the road ones.

 

Even against the middle of the road defenses, we struggle the same.

 

The defenses we have faced have allowed 2964 yards on 756 attempts, excluding what we've done against them.  That means that all of the other games they have played combined, they have allowed 3.92 yards per attempt.  While we are averaging just 2.74 yards per attempt against them.

 

That is an enormous drop-off.  We average just about two thirds of the yards per attempt as the average against them from the rest of the team's they have collectively played combined.  Over 1 yard per attempt fewer than average.

 

We can't continue to run the ball this poorly and expect to succeed on offense.

 

Also notable is that we are only succeeding in achieving a first down on 45.5% of 1-yard-to-go situations where we rush the ball.  That's 4th worst in the NFL right now.  Average is 65.6% success.

[Tank 92]

The issue is not the amount of runs, it's the predictability of it. 78 percent of our first down plays were runs, that has to be closer to 50 50

 

Stating the obvious, the best play to call on any down is the one they are not expecting. I don't think there is a magical quota, but 78% is way, way too much, especiallly when your run game sucks. If anything, we should be using the pass early on to loosen up the running game.

 

no it does not. Nothing demoralizes a team more than not being able to stop what you know is coming. That is how the Ravens have been so good over the past 3 years.

 

 

While I hear what you are saying, ultimate success didn't come until there was imaginative play calling. Ground and pound just won't cut it anymore. That said, you have to have the run game working to have consistent success, again, for the obvious reasons.

[flynismo]

running on first or second down is crucial. Just as occasionally passing on first down is crucial. It is a symbiotic relationship!

Also the ONLY problem with run, run, pass is not gaining any yards to get to a 3rd and short. I would give up something meaningful if all we did was run, run, pass. That probably means we are
trucking teams on our way back to the Superbowl, .

You can't just take a blanket approach like that. Every game presents it's own unique challenges. I can promise you that as awful as they are, PIT will devour us this weekend if we don't spread it out more often and continue with this 3rd and 7 crap.

You don't run for the sake of running, or because a playcalling ratio calls for balance. You run the ball because you want to pick up three to six yards, and to supplement and help alleviate pressure on the passing game.
Whether we intend to be or not, we are now a pass first team...we need to stop with this medieval approach and start using Flacco and Torrey to take the pressure off our miserable run game. Force them to respect Torrey deep and Marlon on the outside, and those Rice scrambles between the tackles may finally start becoming productive.

[callahan09]

Wow, looking at some numbers here: nearly half of our rush attempts have been for 1 yard or less.  47.8% right now.

59.1% of our attempts have gone for just 2 yards or less.  

Our median rush attempt is 2 yards...

 

On the other hand, teams playing against us are gaining 3 yards as a median run, and are gaining 3+ yards on 57.4% of their attempts.  And we're the #6 rushing defense in terms of yards per attempt!!

[SuggsBarber]

It's really predictable, if it's all we do on 1st and 2nd down and then only throw to convert 3rd downs or in the second half, when we got behind.
The Oline might be one of the problems for the running game, but the playcalling doesn't help.

This. There was one sequence during Sunday game(during the 2nd qtr.)where Flacco dumped off a screen pass to Pierce. The Packers were calling out the play before it unfolded. Considering how the offense was in the first half, you have to wonder what else did they know?

[jimjim5]

I responded to this same statement earlier in the post. My only point is that if we had an uber effective run game (like circa 2000-2001) we would win, win, win because it works and we have the defense to grind out wins. If we could run, and the opposing team can't stop it, it is very hard to lose.

You can't just take a blanket approach like that. Every game presents it's own unique challenges. I can promise you that as awful as they are, PIT will devour us this weekend if we don't spread it out more often and continue with this 3rd and 7 crap.

You don't run for the sake of running, or because a playcalling ratio calls for balance. You run the ball because you want to pick up three to six yards, and to supplement and help alleviate pressure on the passing game.
Whether we intend to be or not, we are now a pass first team...we need to stop with this medieval approach and start using Flacco and Torrey to take the pressure off our miserable run game. Force them to respect Torrey deep and Marlon on the outside, and those Rice scrambles between the tackles may finally start becoming productive.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

The running game isn't working for a variety of reasons. Our play-calling is too predictable. The O-line blocking is terrible. Ray Rice does not appear to be the same explosive runner he was and he needs to morph into a Danny Woodhead type of tailback in order to give the defense something else to think about. While he used to be one of our most feared weapons, he no longer is. The only thing that is constant in life is that everything will change. Our running game needs to change now, not later. We have been forced into becoming a passing team because our running game is so bad. The balance between running plays and passing plays was better on Sunday but the running was very ineffective and far too predictable. Anyone who is just writing this off as purely an execution problem by the players is not watching the same games I've watched. The 4 runs in a row on GB's goal line was more than an execution problem. Also, what is a runner in the backfield supposed to do when its a passing play? I think they call it picking up a blitzing linebacker. How many blitzing linebackers have you seen picked up this season by Rice or Leach? Our formations tip the Defense to a run or a pass. They should be disguised better. Our coaches need to circle the wagons and figure this out quickly before things go south in a hurry. Time is of the essence. The future is now!

[Militant X 1]

You can't just take a blanket approach like that. Every game presents it's own unique challenges. I can promise you that as awful as they are, PIT will devour us this weekend if we don't spread it out more often and continue with this 3rd and 7 crap.

You don't run for the sake of running, or because a playcalling ratio calls for balance. You run the ball because you want to pick up three to six yards, and to supplement and help alleviate pressure on the passing game.
Whether we intend to be or not, we are now a pass first team...we need to stop with this medieval approach and start using Flacco and Torrey to take the pressure off our miserable run game. Force them to respect Torrey deep and Marlon on the outside, and those Rice scrambles between the tackles may finally start becoming productive.

so true!

 

I am a huge advocate for the power running game.  always have been and always will be I guess.  so what, I'm old school!  lol!  imo, there's no reason why we can't and shouldn't be a powerhouse on the ground with Rice, Pierce and Leach in the backfield!  but, seriously though, I definitely know that the Ravens also need a strong passing game to compliment it.  it has been obvious that our O-line is weak as hell and nothing is opening up for our HBs at the moment.  when need the WRs/TEs to consistently make plays for Joe though! that's what bothers me....too many 3&outs, too many rushed throws because Joe is running for his life and too many damn drops! so, I say, stick 4-5 WRs out there on the field and let's open this puppy up and let Joe be Joe!  what's the worst thing that can happen after witnessing 6 weeks of piss poor running?

 

#Mili

[callahan09]

So I wanted to compare us to the league.  As I wrote in an earlier post, 47.8% of all our rushing attempts have gone for 1 yard or fewer this season.

 

NFL average outside of us?  32.4%  So it's under 1/3rd of attempts from the rest of the league on average... but for us it's approaching half!  That's just awful.

[flynismo]

so true!

I am a huge advocate for the power running game. always have been and always will be I guess. so what, I'm old school! lol! imo, there's no reason why we can't and shouldn't be a powerhouse on the ground with Rice, Pierce and Leach in the backfield! but, seriously though, I definitely know that the Ravens also need a strong passing game to compliment it. it has been obvious that our O-line is weak as hell and nothing is opening up for our HBs at the moment. when need the WRs/TEs to consistently make plays for Joe though! that's what bothers me....too many 3&outs, too many rushed throws because Joe is running for his life and too many damn drops! so, I say, stick 4-5 WRs out there on the field and let's open this puppy up and let Joe be Joe! what's the worst thing that can happen after witnessing 6 weeks of piss poor running?

#Mili

That's exactly it. Live and die by Flacco. I mean we pay him a billion dollars to be "the man" in this offense, and yet despite all he has accomplished and that fat paycheck, we still aren't handing him the keys to this ride? What is it going to take for us to realize that this team, for better or worse, is now the Baltimore Flaccos? I cant accept failure, especially when we are not putting our best foot forward

[arnie_uk]

That's exactly it. Live and die by Flacco. I mean we pay him a billion dollars to be "the man" in this offense, and yet despite all he has accomplished and that fat paycheck, we still aren't handing him the keys to this ride? What is it going to take for us to realize that this team, for better or worse, is now the Baltimore Flaccos? I cant accept failure, especially when we are not putting our best foot forward

excatly, take the bull by horns and live or die by passing the ball and being agressive

[tolucaraven]

Ravens at this point with the line struggles and Rices and Ginos play they need to be a pass first offense and run of that. Cant be in 3and long all the time. They need less 3rd down chances period. This team needs to ride Joe and pass, and use short passing plays as passes that should open more lanes for the run game.

[Militant X 1]

Ravens working out another HB.  wow!  but is this cat really the answer to our running struggles?

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dbvQb?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=baltimore-ravens

 

#Mili

[The Raven]

Ravens working out another HB.  wow!  but is this cat really the answer to our running struggles?

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dbvQb?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=baltimore-ravens

 

#Mili

 

Maybe not the answer, but it could be part of the answer. Rice needs a smaller work load, and Bernard Scott could at least take more practice reps to keep Rice fresher for games. We need our backs fresher in games. Rice and Pierce both look slow and overworked. Possibly a result of keeping two backs, exactly what I warned about.

[callahan09]

Saw someone else mention it before, but I wanted to reiterate: If we don't improve by season's end, this will be the worst yards per attempt rushing that a team has had since the 1953 Giants.  Now, Jacksonville is slightly below us at the moment, so they are in the same dubious position we are, but unfortunately for us, they've been trending up recently.  Over the past 3 games, they've had more yards per attempt than we have.  We are falling into last place as they climb ahead of us each week.

 

The other 5 teams in league history that have finished the season with as bad or worse of a rushing yards per attempt as this year's Ravens, those teams had a combined record of 8-46.  If you include the two teams on track to finish among them this season (us and the Jags), then we so far have a combined record of 11-55.

 

The fact is... running the ball like this makes it insanely difficult to win games.

 

The Jags and Ravens in 2013 are the 21st and 22nd teams in NFL history to finish the first 6 games of the season with less than 2.75 yards per rush attempt.  The combined record of all 22 teams is 36-95, for a .275 winning percentage.  So we are sitting damn pretty to even be at.500 considering the abysmal quality of our run game.  Not good.

[callahan09]

A little more...

 

In the first half of games this season, we rank last in rushing yards per attempt on first down.  This, despite being one of the more run-heavy teams on first downs in the first half.  We have run the ball on first down 44 times in the first halves of games this year, compared to 36 passes.  That's 55% run, 45% pass.  League average is more even, but slightly more passes than runs... 50.7% pass to 49.3% run.

 

So we have the worst success running on first downs in the first half of games, yet we do so at a higher rate than most teams.  Does this make sense to anybody?

 

We are earning just 2.64 yards per attempt running the ball on first downs in the first halves of games.

 

The bottom 5 in that category?

 

28. Tampa Bay: 3.10 ypa

29. New York Giants: 3.00 ypa

30. Jacksonville: 2.86 ypa

31. Pittsburgh: 2.82 ypa

32. Baltimore: 2.64 ypa

 

The teams ranked 28-31 have a combined record of 1-21.  We are lucky to be at 3-3.

 

When we keep running the ball on first down in the first half, and have so little success, it's no wonder we are having no success in the first halves of our games this year.

 

We have scored just 47 first half points this season (avg of 7.8 per game).  When you consider that 14 of those points came on a special teams return TD and a pick 6, our offense has really only put up 33 points in the first half this season!

 

And more than HALF of those 33 points (17) were put up in the first game of the season in Denver, which was probably our best half of football as a team this season.  It's really been a whole lot of downhill since then.

 

Outside of that, offensively we have scored 0, 3, 7, 6, and 0 points respectively in the first half of our last 5 games, for a total of 16 points over the first halves of 5 games, giving an avg of 3.2 points.  We are averaging just a field goal in the first half of our past 5 games.  Pathetic.  The run game being as abysmal as it is in the first half is obviously a huge factor in this problem.

[darklight1216]

Great job on the stats, Callahan. I have been ragging on the o-line all season, but I didn't even know it was that bad.

It's very sobering. I sure hope they can find an answer.

[arnie_uk]

Harbs needs to see that