Continuing issue: The run game

[CalvinSmoke]

I didn't want to make too big of a fuss about this during the pre-season because face it... It's just the pre-season. But Our lineman whom we would love to label as one of the best groups in the NFL couldn't create a whole that Mr. Fantastic could fit through tonight. 

[Cville-Raven]

Yeah the run game was really bad

[GrimCoconut]

Our run game was often beat before the snap. Very disappointing. Probably my biggest gripe of the entire game.

[RedFire]

run blocking is easier from a mental standpoint. 

 

the lack of conditioning was obvious last night.

[CalvinSmoke]

I don't know what's going on. But our interior lineman (as a whole) cannot move Defensive Tackles at all right now. Get em right Castillo!

[rayrayven]

The Ravens zone blocking scheme is atrocious. Darren McFadden pleaded with the Raiders to get rid of it and they did. The Ravens were terrible with the zone last year and it just wastes a runner like Rice. Ozzie is smart in so many  ways but the Ravens stick to bad offenseive ideas and coaches in a very disturbing way.

 

 

Loss of zone-blocking scheme gives Darren McFadden hope again

 

http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/08/loss-of-zone-blocking-scheme-gives-darren-mcfadden-hope-again/

 

 

Darren McFadden likes Oakland Raiders' new scheme

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000161869/article/darren-mcfadden-likes-oakland-raiders-new-scheme

[Militant X 1]

seems like the Ravens never learn.  run the ball!  Rice, Pierce, Leach and Juice.  c'mon!  get the run game going and quickly established early on so that it takes pressure off of Joe Flacco and these brick for hands receivers.  and that doesn't mean keep trying to pound it up the middle with little Ray.  smh!  give it to Pierce!  give it to Leach!  let these bruises soften up and wear down defenses so that it opens up the passing lanes for the receivers.  imo, it's like the Ravens are trying to cram a "high octane" passing unit down our throats and they don't have the solid, credible personnel for it.  run the football!  pound the rock!  fix it!

 

~Mili

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Remember, Joe has to prove to all the pundits that he can throw for over 4k yards and 30 td's during the regular season to be considered elite! Those same guys dont care about wins, only what Joe can do for their fantasy teams. That's why they like Tony Homo better

[rayrayven]

seems like the Ravens never learn.  run the ball!  Rice, Pierce, Leach and Juice.  c'mon!  get the run game going and quickly established early on so that it takes pressure off of Joe Flacco and these brick for hands receivers.  and that doesn't mean keep trying to pound it up the middle with little Ray.  smh!  give it to Pierce!  give it to Leach!  let these bruises soften up and wear down defenses so that it opens up the passing lanes for the receivers.  imo, it's like the Ravens are trying to cram a "high octane" passing unit down our throats and they don't have the solid, credible personnel for it.  run the football!  pound the rock!  fix it!

 

~Mili

 

The constant runs up the middle are the zone blocking scheme.It never works because the blockers end up congested and holes don't open up as intended

 

"On zone plays, the linemen keep the same blocking schemes, regardless of how many tight-ends or wide receivers they use. The aiming point for the runningbacks remain about the same."

 

http://smartfootball.com/run-game/a-very-simple-explanation-of-the-zone-runs-and-the-difference-between-inside-zone-and-outside-zone

 

 

The zone blocking scheme is just banging your head against a wall. It sucks.

[usmccharles]

Theres no excuse to give Rice the ball only 12 times.  I know we were down and you have to throw it....but this is one of the reasons cam was let go, not using Rice correctly, at least he was heavily involved in the passing game

[flaccopoe]

It mostly comes down to the O-line.  Maybe more outside runs would help...

[T3hRaven]

The Ravens zone blocking scheme is atrocious. Darren McFadden pleaded with the Raiders to get rid of it and they did. The Ravens were terrible with the zone last year and it just wastes a runner like Rice. Ozzie is smart in so many  ways but the Ravens stick to bad offenseive ideas and coaches in a very disturbing way.

 

 

Loss of zone-blocking scheme gives Darren McFadden hope again

 

http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/08/loss-of-zone-blocking-scheme-gives-darren-mcfadden-hope-again/

 

 

Darren McFadden likes Oakland Raiders' new scheme

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000161869/article/darren-mcfadden-likes-oakland-raiders-new-scheme

 

This is actually a legitimate debate, and it's something that's come up multiple times since the switch.  The ZBS obviously can work and can work very well.  Mike Shanahan has been turning average Joes into stars using it for many many years, and Houston has built their entire team around it to disguise the weaknesses of Matt Schaub.  That being said, it might not work with our personnel.  Obviously Yanda is excluded from this discussion, he's the best guard in the league and is scheme transcendent.  It's possible that our lineman (cough Oher) are too stupid to handle a scheme where assignments aren't as black and white.  It might also be that Rice has trouble diagnosing and finding the hole in the ZBS.  The one season where Rice was actually an elite runner back occurred using a power/man scheme.

 

seems like the Ravens never learn.  run the ball!  Rice, Pierce, Leach and Juice.  c'mon!  get the run game going and quickly established early on so that it takes pressure off of Joe Flacco and these brick for hands receivers.  and that doesn't mean keep trying to pound it up the middle with little Ray.  smh!  give it to Pierce!  give it to Leach!  let these bruises soften up and wear down defenses so that it opens up the passing lanes for the receivers.  imo, it's like the Ravens are trying to cram a "high octane" passing unit down our throats and they don't have the solid, credible personnel for it.  run the football!  pound the rock!  fix it!

 

~Mili

 

You can't run the football and 'pound the rock' in today's league and expect to win the Super Bowl.  We won it last year using a balanced, leaning pass a little, offense in the playoffs.  And even if you could, you can't when you're averaging 2.6 yards per carry.  The run doesn't magically get established, and they really tried to establish it.  Jim Caldwell should be commended for sticking to a completely and totally ineffective running game for as long as he did, but it still doesn't shut people who don't understand that the game has changed up.

[Guest RBates]

I don't understand our run game.  We have coaches watching the coaches and the run game is bad?  

 

Wow we need lineman all of a sudden.  I can't put my finger on it.  It's almost like they knew when we were going to run. 

[Bltravens]

The constant runs up the middle are the zone blocking scheme.It never works because the blockers end up congested and holes don't open up as intended

 

"On zone plays, the linemen keep the same blocking schemes, regardless of how many tight-ends or wide receivers they use. The aiming point for the runningbacks remain about the same."

 

http://smartfootball.com/run-game/a-very-simple-explanation-of-the-zone-runs-and-the-difference-between-inside-zone-and-outside-zone

 

 

The zone blocking scheme is just banging your head against a wall. It sucks.

Baltimore went to the zone to try to implement the zone stretch like Houston.  That was another brilliant move by Cameron.  Baltimore never fully implemented it because the only good athletes on the Oline are our Gs and you start making Osemele and Yanda play fancy you take away their best attribute: they're nastiness.

[T3hRaven]

Baltimore went to the zone to try to implement the zone stretch like Houston.  That was another brilliant move by Cameron.  Baltimore never fully implemented it because the only good athletes on the Oline are our Gs and you start making Osemele and Yanda play fancy you take away their best attribute: they're nastiness.

 

Oher from an athletic standpoint is actually the ideal lineman for the ZBS, I think he lacks the mental ability to be great.  And I disagree on Osemele being that athletic too.  Strong sure, but 335 pounds is kinda fat for guards today.  And Yanda has been incredibly effective in every scheme they're played him in, he's not a problem and the ZBS does not eliminate the 'nastiness' of an OL.

[izvoodoo]

Oher from an athletic standpoint is actually the ideal lineman for the ZBS, I think he lacks the mental ability to be great.  And I disagree on Osemele being that athletic too.  Strong sure, but 335 pounds is kinda fat for guards today.  And Yanda has been incredibly effective in every scheme they're played him in, he's not a problem and the ZBS does not eliminate the 'nastiness' of an OL.

For a guy his size Osemele moves incredibly well.  his technique needs work, but he's got the movement on the inside.  Not great movement for a tackle, but really good movement for a guard.

[GrimCoconut]

Baltimore went to the zone to try to implement the zone stretch like Houston.  That was another brilliant move by Cameron.  Baltimore never fully implemented it because the only good athletes on the Oline are our Gs and you start making Osemele and Yanda play fancy you take away their best attribute: they're nastiness.

I thought it was John that wanted more of a ZBS? I could have sworn I remember reading that in an article. Anyone else recall this or did I go off the deep end?

[Bltravens]

Oher from an athletic standpoint is actually the ideal lineman for the ZBS, I think he lacks the mental ability to be great.  And I disagree on Osemele being that athletic too.  Strong sure, but 335 pounds is kinda fat for guards today.  And Yanda has been incredibly effective in every scheme they're played him in, he's not a problem and the ZBS does not eliminate the 'nastiness' of an OL.

 

Osemele is not even close to being fat.  Guess you didn't see the picture of him during TC when he showed off actual abs at 335.  Osemele is a physical specimen.  I said Yanda and Osemele are the only guys that can do it, Yanda is the best damn OG in the league, dude can play in any scheme and thrive.  It doesn't eliminate all of it but you can't tell me theres a same nastiness factor from a zone block to a man power scheme at all.

I thought it was John that wanted more of a ZBS? I could have sworn I remember reading that in an article. Anyone else recall this or did I go off the deep end?

Was it Harbaugh, may have been, I figured it was Cameron's idea that John rolled with.  I could be wrong though.  We need to scrap it or start drafting Olineman that can actually play in the scheme.

[GrimCoconut]

Osemele is not even close to being fat.  Guess you didn't see the picture of him during TC when he showed off actual abs at 335.  Osemele is a physical specimen.  I said Yanda and Osemele are the only guys that can do it, Yanda is the best damn OG in the league, dude can play in any scheme and thrive.  It doesn't eliminate all of it but you can't tell me theres a same nastiness factor from a zone block to a man power scheme at all.

Was it Harbaugh, may have been, I figured it was Cameron's idea that John rolled with.  I could be wrong though.  We need to scrap it or start drafting Olineman that can actually play in the scheme.

I've been all for moving away from the ZBS for a while now. Ever since last year. I'd really like to keep the ZBS but use more power schemes more frequently. I see no problem with ZBS, but not as a base. 

[rayrayven]

"I don't understand our run game.  We have coaches watching the coaches and the run game is bad?  

 

Wow we need lineman all of a sudden.  I can't put my finger on it.  It's almost like they knew when we were going to run."

 

 

They do know. When Rice is going up the middle its not like the play was called to hit the A gaps. No gap is the focus. Rice is supposed to find the openings that take place - wherever they take place - but they never do. Defensies fear Rice bouncing outside so they play defense to hold contain and crash down to the center where all th Ravens OL get bunched up. Watching this futile play over and over and over is like beating your head agaisnt the wall. Denver ran a good zone but they used smaller OL players who played low and hit knees etc. The Ravens big whales play high and have no leverage

[The Raven]

Oher from an athletic standpoint is actually the ideal lineman for the ZBS, I think he lacks the mental ability to be great.  And I disagree on Osemele being that athletic too.  Strong sure, but 335 pounds is kinda fat for guards today.  And Yanda has been incredibly effective in every scheme they're played him in, he's not a problem and the ZBS does not eliminate the 'nastiness' of an OL.

 

It doesn't eliminate his nastiness, but it does limit it. I remember reading in Blood, Sweat, and Chalk that Anthony Munoz hated the ZBS because he couldn't just fire off and punch someone in the mouth. In the ZBS, your first step is lateral or backwards, not forwards. Linemen usually hate it.

[BloodRaven]

Zone blocking takes a lot of practice because it involves offensive linemen working in unison and decisions have to be made while the play is taking place, you need the reps together to get a feel of working as a unit. Right now we have a new centre who is still trying to get his head around line calls, while building chemistry with a guard who missed the offseason and preseason.

[The Raven]

Zone blocking takes a lot of practice because it involves offensive linemen working in unison and decisions have to be made while the play is taking place, you need the reps together to get a feel of working as a unit. Right now we have a new centre who is still trying to get his head around line calls, while building chemistry with a guard who missed the offseason and preseason.

 

Yep, ZBS requires a lot more chemistry.

 

Still think we should just play a man scheme. I did notice that we seem to be shifting back to that since Caldwell took over. Caldwell hardly called any zone plays in the post season. 

[TwinRivers]

I thought it was John that wanted more of a ZBS? I could have sworn I remember reading that in an article. Anyone else recall this or did I go off the deep end?

During a game last season Ray Rice called for the inside zone run which they did and it worked. Ray said this in a post game interview. 

[JoeCool#5]

I am just getting extremely tried of the 3rd & shorts, and having the running game not covert. We saw this last year, lets hope its not a trend. 

[ThePurpleWall]

nope they are fine.

[H8R]

The OL needs to play better, but so do the RB's and Leach. Leach missed a number of blocks while coming out of the backfield.

Rice seems to fall on his face for no reason 4-5 times a game. Its crazy to me because he shows good balance most of the time. Pierce is a better pure running back then Rice at least in the sense of patience to the hole on the stretch plays and stuff out wide. Rice doesnt seem to know when to turn it up the field. You would think it would be the opposite, but Rice runs his best between the tackles, Pirece isnt weak at either...but isnt as dynamic.

[GrimCoconut]

The OL needs to play better, but so do the RB's and Leach. Leach missed a number of blocks while coming out of the backfield.
Rice seems to fall on his face for no reason 4-5 times a game. Its crazy to me because he shows good balance most of the time. Pierce is a better pure running back then Rice at least in the sense of patience to the hole on the stretch plays and stuff out wide. Rice doesnt seem to know when to turn it up the field. You would think it would be the opposite, but Rice runs his best between the tackles, Pirece isnt weak at either...but isnt as dynamic.

Leach needs to get his legs under him. He made me really mad against the Broncos because of his missed blocks. More people should be calling him out on his play.

[The Raven]

Leach was trash. I remember on one play, Oher and Yanda completely manhandled and collapsed Denver's line, but Leach just completely whiffed on his kick out block. As a result, the RB got tackled for a loss. If he makes that block, we get a big run. Guarantee it.

[GrimCoconut]

Leach was trash. I remember on one play, Oher and Yanda completely manhandled and collapsed Denver's line, but Leach just completely whiffed on his kick out block. As a result, the RB got tackled for a loss. If he makes that block, we get a big run. Guarantee it.

Yeah, he had a terrible game. Surprised more haven't brought this up around here. I guess Leach gets a pass.