Bronco Woes? Or are they really?

[SecretAgentMan]

Ok, I had to speak up about this.

 

The "Broncos D is screwed" arguement is reasonable. Bronco's are still a very good football team. But since this is focusing on the defense. 

 

Von Miller is a huge loss. There is no doubting that.  But with Wolfe returning from injury, these are the pass rushers they have

 

Wolfe 

Shaun Phillips

Sylvester Williams will rotate in 

 

 

Those three are VERY TALENTED Pass rushers. Losing Miller is huge. I get that, but that defense does have a lot of talent on it.

 

Champ and is a big loss, but Chris Harris is coming into his own as a stud. DRC while overrated is a very solid CB also.

 

Outside of that one play, Rahim Moore is a very good FS. Tony Carter is another very solid CB.

 

So the only real weakness here is the LB, and they got Woodyard who is also really good. 

 

 

To do the in depth thing here, and our game plan has to be run first. That LB corp is REALLY weak outside of Woodyard. 

 

Wolfe is a beast

Vickerson is a good savy vet

Knighton is a good NT when motivated

Shaun Phillips is a great pass rusher

 

That Dline is by no means BAD. 

 

The LB corps is another story

 

Irving

Woodyard

Danny Trevathan

 

 

 

Woodyard is good but I've never heard of the other two. 

 

Champ is hurt but

 

DRC is athletic and can prob keep up with Torrey 1 on 1

Harris is coming into his own

Carter is a solid CB

 

Moore is a good FS

The Duke I is unproven

 

That's not a bad defense AT ALL.

 

And if we match it up vs our offense. The Oline should be fine, but if DRC gets on Torrey the WR's are going to have a tough game.

 

The TE's should get a lot of looks though. Woodyard is good but he isn't faster than Dickson. Clark needs to step it up but if he gets his hands back look out.

 

 

We won't dominate this team. We should steam roll them in the run game and get passes to the TE's easy but that offense of there's is going to be a great challenge for the Defense...

 

 

 

The Offense of the Broncos is missing one key player. The C.

 

But look at who else they got

 

Clady (all pro)

Beadles(Very good guard)

Ramierez(Ok he sucks, but more talent around him)

Louis V(again, good guard)

Orlando Franklin(Great RT)

 

Outside of the center, that's a great oline.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention the weapons at the Bronco's disposal

 

Demaryius Thomas(STUD)

Eric Decker(Good route runner, get's open a lot)

Wes Welker(Great slot WR)

Julius Thomas looks to be a  good option.

 

Our secondary is going to have a tough time. They aint running the ball on us. TE's aint going to do crap over the middle. Smith is great in that department.

 

Ngata might be the best rusher this game if we put him at NT tho. That center(or any center really) would get hell. Doom knows these guys and will get pressure, and Suggs will too, but those WR's are the X factors imo.

 

Not even a CB as good as Webb can take out Thomas. Thomas is a freak athlete.

 

Jimmy has a tough matchup as well. Decker gets open. 

 

Graham also has a tough task. Welker is a deadly weapon.

 

But all in all. I'm going to call this game 38-35(again lol) us. Why? It's Moriarty vs Holmes. This team is a hard matchup on both sides. We will have more balance on the offense.

 

We should be in attack first mode vs these guys. And for once have unpredictability on our side now that Cam is gone. Manning has no idea what is coming from the D(well, I'm sure he has a decent idea, but isn't sure what to fully expect), and Flacco has a few guys to rely on here.

 

We aint blowing these guys out. That's the reality of things. These guys are a good team, not just because of Manning. They're built well. But so are we.

 

This game will be a fun one to watch. I am fully expecting a thriller game like in January 

 

 

And yes, this should all be very obvious :P

[beanfigger]

You mentioned how our TEs can have a good game, and I'd add Stokely to that for the same reasons. Dumervil is the bigger homecoming story, but Stokely could have the bigger impact. He always has a great game somewhere at the beginning of every season, so why change the trend now?

[SecretAgentMan]

You mentioned how our TEs can have a good game, and I'd add Stokely to that for the same reasons. Dumervil is the bigger homecoming story, but Stokely could have the bigger impact. He always has a great game somewhere at the beginning of every season, so why change the trend now?

He does get open, but I'm a bit skeptical(as usual) as the slot CB is still very good. I could see him having about 3 receptions for 50 yards and a TD

[PolishRifle]

A ton of good points. The Broncos are still dangerous, I agree. Those dudes dragged ( profanity removed) Tebow into the playoffs. That couldn't have been just Von Miller alone. It takes a whole team to go to the playoffs AND win a playoff game with a RB playing QB. And now they have Manning instead. They are are still a scary team, even with that string of bad luck.

[hawkprey]

Shaun Phillips was horrible last year, even rushing the passer, and Sly Williams is playing his first NFL game. Wolfe is good from the DT spot, but nothing our guards can't handle. Sorry, I'm not worried about their pass rush at all.

 

And I really don't think covering their WRs will be too much of a problem. Graham picked Manning off twice last game and Jimmy and Webb weren't even playing. Really, none of our CBs got picked on last time. It was all short yardage RB/TE on linebacker stuff.

 

The Broncos have talent, yes. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[SecretAgentMan]

Shaun Phillips was horrible last year, even rushing the passer, and Sly Williams is playing his first NFL game. Wolfe is good from the DT spot, but nothing our guards can't handle. Sorry, I'm not worried about their pass rush at all.

 

And I really don't think covering their WRs will be too much of a problem. Graham picked Manning off twice last game and Jimmy and Webb weren't even playing. Really, none of our CBs got picked on last time. It was all short yardage RB/TE on linebacker stuff.

 

The Broncos have talent, yes. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

In what universe is 9.5 sacks bad?

 

Sly will be used in passing situations. He's a good pass rusher.

 

Thomas is a STUD. Ok. STUD. No CB can cover him one on one.

Welker > Stokley, and Manning won't make that mistake again.

 

This game will be very close and you're underestimating the Broncos. That pass rush is still very solid. That secondary will give the WRs a lot, and they've got weapons who will give the secondary a lot of trouble 

[Ravenslifer]

Ok, I had to speak up about this.

 

The "Broncos D is screwed" arguement is reasonable. Bronco's are still a very good football team. But since this is focusing on the defense. 

 

Von Miller is a huge loss. There is no doubting that.  But with Wolfe returning from injury, these are the pass rushers they have

 

Wolfe 

Shaun Phillips

Sylvester Williams will rotate in 

 

 

Those three are VERY TALENTED Pass rushers. Losing Miller is huge. I get that, but that defense does have a lot of talent on it.

 

Champ and is a big loss, but Chris Harris is coming into his own as a stud. DRC while overrated is a very solid CB also.

 

Outside of that one play, Rahim Moore is a very good FS. Tony Carter is another very solid CB.

 

So the only real weakness here is the LB, and they got Woodyard who is also really good. 

 

 

To do the in depth thing here, and our game plan has to be run first. That LB corp is REALLY weak outside of Woodyard. 

 

Wolfe is a beast

Vickerson is a good savy vet

Knighton is a good NT when motivated

Shaun Phillips is a great pass rusher

 

That Dline is by no means BAD. 

 

The LB corps is another story

 

Irving

Woodyard

Danny Trevathan

 

 

 

Woodyard is good but I've never heard of the other two. 

 

Champ is hurt but

 

DRC is athletic and can prob keep up with Torrey 1 on 1

Harris is coming into his own

Carter is a solid CB

 

Moore is a good FS

The Duke I is unproven

 

That's not a bad defense AT ALL.

 

And if we match it up vs our offense. The Oline should be fine, but if DRC gets on Torrey the WR's are going to have a tough game.

 

The TE's should get a lot of looks though. Woodyard is good but he isn't faster than Dickson. Clark needs to step it up but if he gets his hands back look out.

 

 

We won't dominate this team. We should steam roll them in the run game and get passes to the TE's easy but that offense of there's is going to be a great challenge for the Defense...

 

 

 

The Offense of the Broncos is missing one key player. The C.

 

But look at who else they got

 

Clady (all pro)

Beadles(Very good guard)

Ramierez(Ok he sucks, but more talent around him)

Louis V(again, good guard)

Orlando Franklin(Great RT)

 

Outside of the center, that's a great oline.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention the weapons at the Bronco's disposal

 

Demaryius Thomas(STUD)

Eric Decker(Good route runner, get's open a lot)

Wes Welker(Great slot WR)

Julius Thomas looks to be a  good option.

 

Our secondary is going to have a tough time. They aint running the ball on us. TE's aint going to do crap over the middle. Smith is great in that department.

 

Ngata might be the best rusher this game if we put him at NT tho. That center(or any center really) would get hell. Doom knows these guys and will get pressure, and Suggs will too, but those WR's are the X factors imo.

 

Not even a CB as good as Webb can take out Thomas. Thomas is a freak athlete.

 

Jimmy has a tough matchup as well. Decker gets open. 

 

Graham also has a tough task. Welker is a deadly weapon.

 

But all in all. I'm going to call this game 38-35(again lol) us. Why? It's Moriarty vs Holmes. This team is a hard matchup on both sides. We will have more balance on the offense.

 

We should be in attack first mode vs these guys. And for once have unpredictability on our side now that Cam is gone. Manning has no idea what is coming from the D(well, I'm sure he has a decent idea, but isn't sure what to fully expect), and Flacco has a few guys to rely on here.

 

We aint blowing these guys out. That's the reality of things. These guys are a good team, not just because of Manning. They're built well. But so are we.

 

This game will be a fun one to watch. I am fully expecting a thriller game like in January 

 

 

And yes, this should all be very obvious :P

 

I don't think it's that the Broncos are weak but that they are weaker than they were when we faced them in the playoffs, in theory anyway - no Dumervil, no Miller, and an ailing Champ Bailey, all three of whom were healthy and in Denver uniforms the last time we played.  Plus I have to believe this Ravens defense is much better than the patched up one that carried us through the playoffs last year, plus I have a feeling that if we even give up one return TD, Rosburg might be looking for a new job, and he knows it.  They are still a great team and should be competing for the AFC title, but in terms of what they were last year, I don't think they are as good this year.  I could be wrong, though.  We'll just have to wait and see.

[Bltravens]

One nice thing is we have extensive experience covering Welker in the slot. He shouldn't kill our defence as much as he'll kill everyone else this year. Never thought much of Woodyard, decent LB but never sold on him as an impact player.

[hawkprey]

In what universe is 9.5 sacks bad?

 

Sly will be used in passing situations. He's a good pass rusher.

 

Thomas is a STUD. Ok. STUD. No CB can cover him one on one.

Welker > Stokley, and Manning won't make that mistake again.

 

This game will be very close and you're underestimating the Broncos. That pass rush is still very solid. That secondary will give the WRs a lot, and they've got weapons who will give the secondary a lot of trouble 

In this universe:

It’s no surprise the Chargers are prepared to part with long-time outside linebacker Phillips. The most familiar face on their defense, Phillips’ play fell off a cliff this year as he managed just 39 quarterback disruptions on 403 pass rushes. Couple that with some horrible run defense and you’ve got our second-lowest ranked outside linebacker on the year.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/28/performance-baed-value-san-diego-chargers/

 

I like Sly Williams but he hasn't stood out in preseason, and you can't expect a rookie to make a significant impact week 1. Their pass rush is NOT solid. Without Von, it stands to be one of the weakest in the league. Can you name 3 teams with weaker options? Probably not.

 

I know Thomas is good, but you're acting like he's Jerry Rice. He was a "STUD" last year and in two games against us he totaled 50 yards. In both games we were without 2 of our 3 best corners. So sorry if I'm not worried as much as you are.

[SecretAgentMan]

In this universe:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/28/performance-baed-value-san-diego-chargers/

 

I like Sly Williams but he hasn't stood out in preseason, and you can't expect a rookie to make a significant impact week 1. Their pass rush is NOT solid. Without Von, it stands to be one of the weakest in the league. Can you name 3 teams with weaker options? Probably not.

 

I know Thomas is good, but you're acting like he's Jerry Rice. He was a "STUD" last year and in two games against us he totaled 50 yards. In both games we were without 2 of our 3 best corners. So sorry if I'm not worried as much as you are.

PFF makes mistakes, but he got 9.5 sacks on a REALLY BAD DEFENSE

That pass rush is not bad. It's not by any means great, but it's not bad at all.

 

Oh

Raiders

Eagles(I mean seriously, Trent Cole and who else?)

Jacksonville(who plays there again? Mincey?)

[flynismo]

In what universe is 9.5 sacks bad?

Sly will be used in passing situations. He's a good pass rusher.

Thomas is a STUD. Ok. STUD. No CB can cover him one on one.
Welker > Stokley, and Manning won't make that mistake again.

This game will be very close and you're underestimating the Broncos. That pass rush is still very solid. That secondary will give the WRs a lot, and they've got weapons who will give the secondary a lot of trouble

That pass rush, with Miller and Dumervil no less, was negated very well last time we played.
Considering how Torrey abused Champ, its probably a good thing he likely won't be playing.

[SecretAgentMan]

That pass rush, with Miller and Dumervil no less, was negated very well last time we played.
Considering how Torrey abused Champ, its probably a good thing he likely won't be playing.

You have a valid point, while it isn't as good as last years, it's still nothing to roll over tho. Our guys are going to work imo.

 

I'm not worried at all for this game. We should win by gutting them down the middle, and using Caldwell to our advantage.

 

Our oline did good vs them last year, and Yanda coming back does help. But don't be surprised if they get a sack or two. The pass rush isn't as bad as others claim it is.

 

Yeah, that prob is a good thing lol

[hawkprey]

PFF makes mistakes, but he got 9.5 sacks on a REALLY BAD DEFENSE

That pass rush is not bad. It's not by any means great, but it's not bad at all.

 

Oh

Raiders

Eagles(I mean seriously, Trent Cole and who else?)

Jacksonville(who plays there again? Mincey?)

The Eagles actually have a lot of good pass rushers for the 3-4. Vinny Curry has looked good and Brandon Graham is a beast in the making.

The Jags and Raiders have Jason Babin and Lamarr Houston, but yes, there's not a lot there.

 

I'm just saying that when you actually look at the rest of the teams, there's actually plenty of talent around. Every team has good players. Every team can record sacks. 

[ravensfan2430]

In this universe:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/28/performance-baed-value-san-diego-chargers/

 

I like Sly Williams but he hasn't stood out in preseason, and you can't expect a rookie to make a significant impact week 1. Their pass rush is NOT solid. Without Von, it stands to be one of the weakest in the league. Can you name 3 teams with weaker options? Probably not.

 

I know Thomas is good, but you're acting like he's Jerry Rice. He was a "STUD" last year and in two games against us he totaled 50 yards. In both games we were without 2 of our 3 best corners. So sorry if I'm not worried as much as you are.

i agree

[SecretAgentMan]

The Eagles actually have a lot of good pass rushers for the 3-4. Vinny Curry has looked good and Brandon Graham is a beast in the making.

The Jags and Raiders have Jason Babin and Lamarr Houston, but yes, there's not a lot there.

 

I'm just saying that when you actually look at the rest of the teams, there's actually plenty of talent around. Every team has good players. Every team can record sacks. 

Gotcha.

 

But in all honesty, Denver's situation could be FAR worse

[The Oakland Cathedral]

I think Webb will be on Welker, Smith on Decker, and Graham on Thomas. I actually like those matchups for the most part since I trust our CB's more than I probably should.

[SecretAgentMan]

I think Webb will be on Welker, Smith on Decker, and Graham on Thomas. I actually like those matchups for the most part since I trust our CB's more than I probably should.

They aint shutting down Thomas.

 

I can hype a freak athlete right?

[EternalRavensDefense]

They aint shutting down Thomas.

 

I can hype a freak athlete right?

 

You do know we held him to 4 catches and 13 yards in the first game and 3 catches for 37 yards in the second game.

 

Shutting him down isn't really that hard for the ravens.

[SecretAgentMan]

You do know we held him to 4 catches and 13 yards in the first game and 3 catches for 37 yards in the second game.

 

Shutting him down isn't really that hard for the ravens.

True, but the fact that they got Welker opens up a lot in the passing game.

 

Manning has weapons. Lots of em.

 

And one of those catches were for a TD. So it's not fair to say shut down  lol. That made us do the MHM and sent the game into over time

 

That DT TD was important lol

[gabefergy]

PFF makes mistakes, but he got 9.5 sacks on a REALLY BAD DEFENSE

That pass rush is not bad. It's not by any means great, but it's not bad at all.

 

Oh

Raiders

Eagles(I mean seriously, Trent Cole and who else?)

Jacksonville(who plays there again? Mincey?)

Actually, the pass-rush is abysmal given every possible metric we have at our disposal. Last season Shaun Phillips was among the worst at his position in pass-rush productivity. Actual numbers of sacks is a pretty poor estimate of how effective a player is at applying pressure as he had 38 pressures in over 400 pass rush snaps. This also doesnt take into consideration that he is playing in a new position in a 4-3 defense either. Derek Wolfe is another great example of this. He had 6 sacks, but was rated as one of the worst pass-rushers from the 4-3 DE position. He only had 26 combined pressures (hits, hurries and sacks) on over 500 pass-rush snaps. That's terrible production from a DE. Finally, Sylvester Williams was absolutely awful at applying pressure this preseason notching only 2 combined pressures in 82 pass-rush snaps, many of which were against less than first string competition,

[Sizzlebshu]

Actually, the pass-rush is abysmal given every possible metric we have at our disposal. Last season Shaun Phillips was among the worst at his position in pass-rush productivity. Actual numbers of sacks is a pretty poor estimate of how effective a player is at applying pressure as he had 38 pressures in over 400 pass rush snaps. This also doesnt take into consideration that he is playing in a new position in a 4-3 defense either. Derek Wolfe is another great example of this. He had 6 sacks, but was rated as one of the worst pass-rushers from the 4-3 DE position. He only had 26 combined pressures (hits, hurries and sacks) on over 500 pass-rush snaps. That's terrible production from a DE. Finally, Sylvester Williams was absolutely awful at applying pressure this preseason notching only 2 combined pressures in 82 pass-rush snaps, many of which were against less than first string competition,

To add on to this,

 

The Broncos linebacking core outside of Woodyard is abysmal and guess what. Woodyard is changing position moving to the mike role.

 

In addition to this, the new d line will also likely struggle to stop the run. Combine that with a very talented defense capable of playing man coverage and disguising defenses with ease with a new center at the helm for the Broncos and you literally have the perfect recipe for controlling and beating Peyton Manning.

 

On top of that, that Broncos won't likely be able to run the ball due to

 

1. Their rb's being horrible

2. no real run blockers on their offensive line

3. Welker being there (this actually brings guys up into the box who can cover the run)

4. No real blocking ability at TE (Thomas is an abysmal blocker and thats with tremendous improvement)

 

 

Honestly if I had to make a comparison it would be

 

Ravens vs Pats 2013 AFCCG and we know how that went.

 

For the Broncos it will probably be closer to

 

Houston/Atlanta vs Broncos

 

Now Peyton won't throw 3 interceptions, but realistically I put him at 250 yards 1 touchdown 1 int (1 rushing by the rb) with a final score of

 

34-17 Baltimore (or Baltimore by 14)

 

Factor out 2 special teams touchdowns by Trendon Halliday, and a goal line turnover last year and you get a final score in regulation of 28-21 Baltimore. Our defense has improved tremendously and their defense has been decimated and you could easily justify that we could get an extra possession and score or rob them of a few possessions and a score.

[Rav'n Maniac]

The key to beating the Broncos & Manning is the same as its always been. You keep their offense off the field with long, extended drives controlling the clock. Our running & short passing needs to be huge in this game.

[Cville-Raven]

I've heard sly Williams has been terribad this pre season.

[Tank 92]

The key to beating the Broncos & Manning is the same as its always been. You keep the offense off the field with long, extended drives controlling the clock. Our running & short passing needs to be huge in this game.

 

 

Exactly. Look for huge doses of RR, Pierce and Stokley. May not satisfy some, but at this point I don't think we're ready for a shootout.

[Juviebest]

I think an underrated aspect of our defense versus Manning is Daryl Smith. He's had 8 seasons of facing Manning twice a year. A lot of familiarity there and I think that will help tremendously in getting our play calls correct.

[Sizzlebshu]

I think an underrated aspect of our defense versus Manning is Daryl Smith. He's had 8 seasons of facing Manning twice a year. A lot of familiarity there and I think that will help tremendously in getting our play calls correct.

Don't forget Dumervil

[Bltravens]

You do know we held him to 4 catches and 13 yards in the first game and 3 catches for 37 yards in the second game.

 

Shutting him down isn't really that hard for the ravens.

Those numbers are good, but I wonder how much was attributed to Manning knowing Reed would be over the top of Thomas as he's their only deep threat and adding in Mannings poo arm these days, plus the cold and it makes me wonder how much Manning even wanted to throw Thomas' way.  I think about 20 of those 37 yards came on his little bubble screen too.

[ravensfan2430]

I like the speed we have on D. I think Manning still completes the same kind of passes, but I think the YAC will be less b/c as a defense in general, we will be able to close faster.

[BMORElegacy]

True, but the fact that they got Welker opens up a lot in the passing game.
 
Manning has weapons. Lots of em.
 
And one of those catches were for a TD. So it's not fair to say shut down  lol. That made us do the MHM and sent the game into over time
 
That DT TD was important lol

Wasn't that TD a catch and run on a screen? That's not really on the secondary's ability to cover.

[Gordo52]

I think an underrated aspect of our defense versus Manning is Daryl Smith. He's had 8 seasons of facing Manning twice a year. A lot of familiarity there and I think that will help tremendously in getting our play calls correct.

Good point, I never even thought of that.