Jaworski: Ravens Are Best Team In AFC

[waxytaxi]

lol bayless is my favorite i could watch this idiot talk all day. 

[easternshore97]

lol Skip worships at the idol of QBR, a made up ESPN stat.

Well, in the segment before, Skip was saying that going back to 2011, Tim Tebow has the best QBR in the last 5 mins of games.

 

What is increasingly aggravating for me about QBR is this

• No one NO ONE really knows how to calculate it just like no one knows how to calculate Quarterback Rating (how do we get to 157 or whatever it is and what constitutes 148 vs 109???) It's an arbitrary stat
• I guarantee if you asked him to break QBR down Skip would fold faster than a hustler in Vegas
• How could it be that Joe threw a TD in both the Denver and Houston games and has the lowest QBR ever recorded whereas Matt Ryan played in Giants stadium and didn't orchestrate a single point. Not one field goal, not NOTHIN!!! And Joe Flacco has the lowest 2 QBRs EVER???!?! While Ryan didn't have a turnover, he was sacked twice, they went 4 of 14 and 0 of 3 on 3rd and 4th downs respectively, and threw for 199. in fact, aside from the pick 6 that Joe threw in the Denver game, he managed 2 TDs, threw for 254, and was sacked 3 times. Here's the rub, for that Denver game the traditional Quarterback rating was actually 76.5 while Peyton Manning's was 96 or something. His QBR ended up being 62.9, and he only threw for 204 yds and 1 TD. He was sacked twice.

I understand that it's allegedly a more robust calculation...and I know that my personal ignorance of QBR renders my argument somewhat irrelevant. But the fact that the disparity between the 2 metrics is that large is somewhat absurd.

[MrPlankton]

Flacco's QBR rating over the playoffs was around 44 or so, it's a joke of a stat.

[billick]

Jaws says Joe has the best arm in the league.  The Polish Stifle,.. er .. Rifle had a nice career with the Eagles. I don't think he has seen a lot of Ravens film this season.

 

 We won't be the best team in the AFC until the play offs.  Denver will be without a pass rush for at least the first six games. That is a must win tiebreaker, if not just bragging rights.

 

  Skip is a big mouth who makes his living talking out of his posterior.  It is a good living. So what ?

[PolishRifle]

.Okay, Skip just compared Flacco to Tebow. I can't watch this anymore.

[T3hRaven]

Thanks for posting this.

Joe and the team are going to have to put the #'s up AND WIN to shut Skip up once and for all. That's the only way to do it.

You can't shut that moron up. Joe could get one of those gold jackets and Baseless would still call him Fluke-o. Just stop watching him, that's what I did.

[Gordo52]

Omg did I love that. Jaws speaks the truth! There was so many other counter arguments he could've used but chose not to. Skip and that one dude got owned!

[Gordo52]

He also conveniently ignored Joe's QBR in the Superbowl, since the stat has started being used I believe Joe has the best QBR of any QB in the Superbowl.

Also forgot to mention Tebow's QBR when he was making that argument. Didn't he have the worst ever?

[CARavensFan]

You can't shut that moron up. Joe could get one of those gold jackets and Baseless would still call him Fluke-o. Just stop watching him, that's what I did.

 

But then they will make excuses that "he was lucky" and "there is no way he could do it again" It will be interesting to watch and see if the public opinion of Joe ever chances the way it did for Eli after his second ring (of course his play has dipped since then so the naysayers are back lol)

[callahan09]

Well, in the segment before, Skip was saying that going back to 2011, Tim Tebow has the best QBR in the last 5 mins of games.

 

What is increasingly aggravating for me about QBR is this

• No one NO ONE really knows how to calculate it just like no one knows how to calculate Quarterback Rating (how do we get to 157 or whatever it is and what constitutes 148 vs 109???) It's an arbitrary stat
• I guarantee if you asked him to break QBR down Skip would fold faster than a hustler in Vegas
• How could it be that Joe threw a TD in both the Denver and Houston games and has the lowest QBR ever recorded whereas Matt Ryan played in Giants stadium and didn't orchestrate a single point. Not one field goal, not NOTHIN!!! And Joe Flacco has the lowest 2 QBRs EVER???!?! While Ryan didn't have a turnover, he was sacked twice, they went 4 of 14 and 0 of 3 on 3rd and 4th downs respectively, and threw for 199. in fact, aside from the pick 6 that Joe threw in the Denver game, he managed 2 TDs, threw for 254, and was sacked 3 times. Here's the rub, for that Denver game the traditional Quarterback rating was actually 76.5 while Peyton Manning's was 96 or something. His QBR ended up being 62.9, and he only threw for 204 yds and 1 TD. He was sacked twice.

I understand that it's allegedly a more robust calculation...and I know that my personal ignorance of QBR renders my argument somewhat irrelevant. But the fact that the disparity between the 2 metrics is that large is somewhat absurd.

Well to be fair about the traditional Passer Rating stat, it's a known formula that anyone can calculate given a stat line.  All you need to know are attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions, plug the numbers into the formula, and you get the passer rating.  There are no subjective variables in the stat, which is the problem with ESPN's QBR.  QBR is not repeatable because you can't find the subjective variables they use on a stat line anywhere, and because since those variables are subjective in the first place any two people observing the QB's performance might attribute different values to those variables.  Whereas the stats that you plug into the traditional QB Rating formula are objective... they are factual.  There is no opinion on whether a pass results in a completion, a touchdown, an interception, or however many yards it's recorded as, so it isn't quite the same type of "arbitrary" (as you call it) as the ESPN QBR is.

[757RavensFan]

Jaworski - 1
Bayless - 0

[berad]

Bayless is a character, not an analyst. Says inflammatory things to get clicks and views, not because he believes them. Maybe he just says them because he's lazy? That's becoming the way of sports journalism.

[izvoodoo]

Well to be fair about the traditional Passer Rating stat, it's a known formula that anyone can calculate given a stat line.  All you need to know are attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions, plug the numbers into the formula, and you get the passer rating.  There are no subjective variables in the stat, which is the problem with ESPN's QBR.  QBR is not repeatable because you can't find the subjective variables they use on a stat line anywhere, and because since those variables are subjective in the first place any two people observing the QB's performance might attribute different values to those variables.  Whereas the stats that you plug into the traditional QB Rating formula are objective... they are factual.  There is no opinion on whether a pass results in a completion, a touchdown, an interception, or however many yards it's recorded as, so it isn't quite the same type of "arbitrary" (as you call it) as the ESPN QBR is.

Personal question...

But what do you do for a living?  Are you an accountant?  Or a programmer?  I just want to know because you drop KNOWLEDGE

[arnie_uk]

Personal question...
But what do you do for a living? Are you an accountant? Or a programmer? I just want to know because you drop KNOWLEDGE

I think hes an analyst of some kind. Or works for a finance company in finance dpt

[arnie_uk]

Personal question...
But what do you do for a living? Are you an accountant? Or a programmer? I just want to know because you drop KNOWLEDGE

I think hes an analyst of some kind. Or works for a massive company in finance dpt

[PolishRifle]

So last season we were too old to be good and now we are not old enough? What?

[52N19]

jaws said the unpopular but true;
1) ray and ed are to old and slow
2) Q doesn't get separation.

I watched the SB last night and Q didn't receive the pass he stole the pass.

this all being said i believe our potential in 2013 with our new additions is better than are potential with our 2012 pieces.

i believe the only departure that will be felt will be ellerbe.

[T3hRaven]

It is always funny when actual analysts talk to these guys who look at stats and make up stuff like "he's under pressure from the fans."  That clip was almost as good as that thrashing Mark Cuban laid out on Skip.

[52N19]

jaws said the unpopular but true;
1) ray and ed are to old and slow
2) Q doesn't get separation.

I watched the SB last night and Q didn't receive the pass he stole the pass.

this all being said i believe our potential in 2013 with our new additions is better than are potential with our 2012 pieces.

i believe the only departure that will be felt will be ellerbe.

[easternshore97]

Well to be fair about the traditional Passer Rating stat, it's a known formula that anyone can calculate given a stat line.  All you need to know are attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions, plug the numbers into the formula, and you get the passer rating.  There are no subjective variables in the stat, which is the problem with ESPN's QBR.  QBR is not repeatable because you can't find the subjective variables they use on a stat line anywhere, and because since those variables are subjective in the first place any two people observing the QB's performance might attribute different values to those variables.  Whereas the stats that you plug into the traditional QB Rating formula are objective... they are factual.  There is no opinion on whether a pass results in a completion, a touchdown, an interception, or however many yards it's recorded as, so it isn't quite the same type of "arbitrary" (as you call it) as the ESPN QBR is.

Thanks for learning me on Quarterback Rating. I really appreciate it

 

I guess the placement of my words caused some confusion. QBR is what I was suggesting no one knows how to calculate (meaning the people quoting it merely quote what the game statisticians put in the box score INSTEAD of calculating it themselves) and that's what I'm saying is arbitrary.

 

As far as the traditional one, I know somebody knows how to calculate it, but I know that most folk probably wouldn't be able to calculate it while watching the game. You mentioned incompletions - clearly sounds like my receivers who drop my perfectly thrown balls count against my score. You didn't mention sacks, but you mentioned a formula. Sounds complex. Stats ought to be easily and readily calculated AND easily articulated. I worked in a sales analytics role with sales people and the rule for compensation/commission is - it has to be easy to calculate.

[easternshore97]

It is always funny when actual analysts talk to these guys who look at stats and make up stuff like "he's under pressure from the fans."  That clip was almost as good as that thrashing Mark Cuban laid out on Skip.

Definitely not better than the "almost interceptions" from everybody's favorite Heath Evans though

[sflegend89]

Just because he got a big contract we don't expect Flacco to throw for 5000 yds, we expect him to keep winning football games like he's done for his entire career lol

[flynismo]

Well, in the segment before, Skip was saying that going back to 2011, Tim Tebow has the best QBR in the last 5 mins of games.

 

What is increasingly aggravating for me about QBR is this

• No one NO ONE really knows how to calculate it just like no one knows how to calculate Quarterback Rating (how do we get to 157 or whatever it is and what constitutes 148 vs 109???) It's an arbitrary stat
• I guarantee if you asked him to break QBR down Skip would fold faster than a hustler in Vegas
• How could it be that Joe threw a TD in both the Denver and Houston games and has the lowest QBR ever recorded whereas Matt Ryan played in Giants stadium and didn't orchestrate a single point. Not one field goal, not NOTHIN!!! And Joe Flacco has the lowest 2 QBRs EVER???!?! While Ryan didn't have a turnover, he was sacked twice, they went 4 of 14 and 0 of 3 on 3rd and 4th downs respectively, and threw for 199. in fact, aside from the pick 6 that Joe threw in the Denver game, he managed 2 TDs, threw for 254, and was sacked 3 times. Here's the rub, for that Denver game the traditional Quarterback rating was actually 76.5 while Peyton Manning's was 96 or something. His QBR ended up being 62.9, and he only threw for 204 yds and 1 TD. He was sacked twice.

I understand that it's allegedly a more robust calculation...and I know that my personal ignorance of QBR renders my argument somewhat irrelevant. But the fact that the disparity between the 2 metrics is that large is somewhat absurd.

 

The fact that the disparity is so large isn't what is absurd; it's almost to be expected considering that Quarterback Rating is pretty flawed in itself, so it's not like we have a reliable baseline to establish comparisons with.

 

What is absurd about it is that it isn't falsifiable, and in fact you can get different data sets to plug in to some unknown formula (even the formula isn't falsifiable!!) using the exact same observational data.

In other words, the above is just a fancy way of saying that no mathematician or anyone in any field of science would touch the QBR with a ten foot pole

 

Come to think of it, the QBR is some commie propaganda crap. What kind of formula does not let it's methods be known, yet makes absolute claims, all while deeming itself the successor to an established, and accepted formula (flawed as it may be)?

I'll tell you what kind -- a formula that attempts to push an agenda

[HoldingCall]

As of the first game of the regular season, all teams are even regardless of what analyst say.

[redravenfan]

Bayless reminds me of the Charlie brown teacher when he talks I hear that sound . Our team isn't perfect , our qb may not have stellar fantasy numbers but as someone who doesn't play fantasy football I prefer  real championships and Lombardi trophies over a great fantasy team . I don't know the other dudes on this show but Jaworski is the only guy that makes sense . and he's honest to boot.

[uhhhh]

Danggg! Jaws got in his behind. The only thing he could say was how bad Flacco's QBR was in 2 games and Jaws fired right back at him. First time Skip didn't have the last word. Wins matter Skippy!

[easternshore97]

The fact that the disparity is so large isn't what is absurd; it's almost to be expected considering that Quarterback Rating

is pretty flawed in itself, so it's not like we have a reliable baseline to establish comparisons with.

 

What is absurd about it is that it isn't falsifiable, and in fact you can get different data sets to plug in to some unknown formula (even the formula isn't falsifiable!!) using the exact same observational data.

In other words, the above is just a fancy way of saying that no mathematician or anyone in any field of science would touch the QBR with a ten foot pole

I got you. Again, part of it is my ignorance to the new stat. But if you look at the concept and the theory, and then you look at the stats, that is what I would call absurd. The fact that Joe Statistician felt like Peyton Manning just came in and lit it up and pulls a number/formula out of his rear end to give to him; then same statistician likely pulls out a different number/formula out of his friend's rear end to apply to Joe. I think we're preaching different parts of the sermon right now so I'll just leave it alone...

[BMORE_96]

jaws said the unpopular but true;
1) ray and ed are to old and slow
2) Q doesn't get separation.

I watched the SB last night and Q didn't receive the pass he stole the pass.

this all being said i believe our potential in 2013 with our new additions is better than are potential with our 2012 pieces.

i believe the only departure that will be felt will be ellerbe.

daryl smith, bynes, and brown will be a better stable than anything we had last year.

[codizzle]

Personal question...
But what do you do for a living? Are you an accountant? Or a programmer? I just want to know because you drop KNOWLEDGE

I pay him to put my thoughts in post form and share them with you all

[easternshore97]

I pay him to put my thoughts in post form and share them with you all

Well since he's not on, one quick question if you don't mind answering even though you've paid:

It almost seems as if they dock you points immediately if your team loses. I'm looking at game splits and it might be the case