QB Joe Flacco

[Tank 92]

This is cool!!!  Gotta love it.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000234834/article/broncos-fan-petitions-nfl-to-remove-joe-flacco-banner

[flynismo]

:D

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Lol why + 35 ? Whats with the 35?

[jaege]

I see the Bronco fans point. I would be annoyed if they had a huge banner of Pig Ben hanging from the bank.

[flynismo]

Lol why + 35 ? Whats with the 35?

Actually I still have no idea, you'll have to ask codizzle about that one..lol

[Gordo52]

Lol why + 35 ? Whats with the 35?

Do you see what you've done Codizzle?!

[Tank 92]

I see the Bronco fans point. I would be annoyed if they had a huge banner of Pig Ben hanging from the bank.

 

 

Yeah, I have no idea why the broncs people would hang that huge banner of Joe on their stadium.  What would possess them to do it? Has to be $ tied to it somehow.

 

A big jen banner at M and T would go up in flames within a day.

[1/28/01]

Super Bowl 35 ;)

[1/28/01]

Super Bowl 35 ;)

[codizzle]

Super Bowl 35 ;)

+35

[1/28/01]

+35

+47

[flynismo]

+47

+48

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Lol mod warning comming ?

[Tank 92]

+48

 

 

You beat me to it!

[jaege]

Yeah, I have no idea why the broncs people would hang that huge banner of Joe on their stadium.  What would possess them to do it? Has to be $ tied to it somehow.
 
A big jen banner at M and T would go up in flames within a day.

Lol. Yeah, we Baltimorians are a little less civilized sometimes. Heh.

[Ravenslifer]

Lets stay on topic instead of falling into back and forth ad hominem. I made a point, you tried to refute it, I called out how it had little to do with my take on Flacco that you disagreed with and had more to do with something I gave Joe credit for. You are now trying to save face. lets stick to the debate please and how about you go read our posts and tell me if you disagree with my points, but this time use the right stuff to back up your claim.

 

Agree to disagree. But I watch more than just Ravens game and I see a difference that can't always be pinned on everyone aside from Joe. Those are his weaknesses in that he isn't consistent in those areas relative to multiple other QBs. Other QBs I watch a lot of are Freeman,Bradford, and Arod and I notice the difference(and strengths and weaknesses) in skill in all of them.

 

I would use accuracy percentage over something like completions percentage when making a case for accuracy. Completions is skewed by balls batted down, drops, and ball thrown away. Also I'm not really using stats for this as much as other guys are(stats that don't really have much to do with my claims), I don't need to. I know from watching the NFL that while Flacco has solid accuracy most of the time he can be inconsistent in that regard and aside from that isn't near the top QBs in terms of accuracy. Brady,Ryan,Arod,Peyton and Brees are all more accurate throwing the ball and more consistent as well. It's ok to say Joe Flacco has weaknesses,everyone does.  

 

 

 That was all I was saying. Brees is much more accurate but no they aren't worlds apart. Also I've praised Flacco's production, just pointing out some of his weaknesses and why they pertain to the subject we were debating.

 

. 

 

 

 When you watch Brady, you're watching a guy who's played 12 years in the league.  I've watched Brady's entire career, and every other QB in this league - they all got better completing passes, more accurate, in their later years.  You're still trying to compare a guy with 5 years experience to guys with 10+ years and saying it's equal.  And you're also no accounting for the type of passes thrown.

 

On passes behind the line of scrimmage in 2012, Joe completed 80 percent, Brady 75. On pass plays 1-10 yards, Brady 73 percent, Joe 68.  Both in the low 40s for passes 10-20 yards.  So if they're both completing the same percentage of passes per distance thrown, but one guy has a much higher completion percentage, it stands to reason he must be throwing a lot more shorter passes.  Which is the case - Brady threw 450 passes within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, Joe only 350.  Joe threw 82 passes beyond 20 yards, Brady only 70.  Shorter passes = more completions.  Same with every other QB you're comparing Joe to - their stats are almost identical for completion percentage based on distance thrown, the difference is they all throw many shorter passes.

[5aiah]

One of those QBs that you said you watch on a rgular basis is Freeman. Are you implying that Freeman is a more accurate QB than Flacco?? If that is what you are saying, I think you need to watch the games a little closer

Dude........ Seriously? There is no way you could ever get that from reading my post correctly. Thought you actually wanted a real debate,never mind.

[5aiah]

 When you watch Brady, you're watching a guy who's played 12 years in the league.  I've watched Brady's entire career, and every other QB in this league - they all got better completing passes, more accurate, in their later years.  You're still trying to compare a guy with 5 years experience to guys with 10+ years and saying it's equal.  And you're also no accounting for the type of passes thrown.

 

On passes behind the line of scrimmage in 2012, Joe completed 80 percent, Brady 75. On pass plays 1-10 yards, Brady 73 percent, Joe 68.  Both in the low 40s for passes 10-20 yards.  So if they're both completing the same percentage of passes per distance thrown, but one guy has a much higher completion percentage, it stands to reason he must be throwing a lot more shorter passes.  Which is the case - Brady threw 450 passes within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage, Joe only 350.  Joe threw 82 passes beyond 20 yards, Brady only 70.  Shorter passes = more completions.  Same with every other QB you're comparing Joe to - their stats are almost identical for completion percentage based on distance thrown, the difference is they all throw many shorter passes.

You are completely missing the point with the first paragraph. I'm saying Joe has room to improve and will do so like Brady did at this time in his career but that he isn't there yet. The others are saying he is already there and has great accuracy,which he doesn't. Stop trying to skew the argument. Also will point out one last time how ironic it is that Flacco is exempt from criticism when its stats based but everyone rushes for stats to defend him when the criticism comes from actually watching football. Brady completes much more difficult finesse passes and again using completion percentage is not the best indicator of accuracy.  

[flynismo]

Dude........ Seriously? There is no way you could ever get that from reading my post correctly. Thought you actually wanted a real debate,never mind.

 

"

Agree to disagree. But I watch more than just Ravens game and I see a difference that can't always be pinned on everyone aside from Joe. Those are his weaknesses in that he isn't consistent in those areas relative to multiple other QBs. Other QBs I watch a lot of are Freeman,Bradford, and Arod and I notice the difference(and strengths and weaknesses) in skill in all of them.

"

 

Sound familiar? Because that is exactly what you said on the previous page. And accuracy seems to be the latest gripe you have on Flacco, so I assume that is what you are refering to.

What exactly is Freeman consistently better than Flacco at, other than turning the ball over and making bad decisions? He's more mobile, and has nicer hair. That's about it.

So what is the point of bringing Freeman up if your argument is that Flacco doesn't do some unmentioned tasks as consistently as Freeman? To simply mention they have different skills? Well, duh...

[flynismo]

You are completely missing the point with the first paragraph. I'm saying Joe has room to improve and will do so like Brady did at this time in his career but that he isn't there yet. The others are saying he is already there and has great accuracy,which he doesn't. Stop trying to skew the argument. Also will point out one last time how ironic it is that Flacco is exempt from criticism when its stats based but everyone rushes for stats to defend him when the criticism comes from actually watching football. Brady completes much more difficult finesse passes and again using completion percentage is not the best indicator of accuracy.  

Well, no kidding Joe has room to improve. So does every single player who ever stepped on a field.

 

Just because you say Flacco doesn't have great accuracy, doesn't make it so. I have plenty more videos for you to peruse of Flacco making insane throws. Yes, he makes a bad throw or two every week. Who the heck doesn't? Does that make him inconsistent? Does Torrey swaying and/or changing speed on routes, resulting in over/underthrows make Flacco inaccurate, or have poor timing? I just have no clue where you get the idea that guys like Brees are MUCH more accurate. If you really follow him as close as you claim, you'd see how easy his system and receivers make things for him. Not a knock on Brees, but when you constantly have guys two steps ahead of their defender and often wiiiiide open, of course to the average armchair GM he'll look like Jesus-incarnate.

Put Flacco over there, and I doubt that production drops at all. And I'm sure you'll huff and puff at the supposed nonsensical idea. And thats fine. It's just very coincidental that Brees is the guy that a lot of people like to compare Flacco to (in their first five years). Their production in their early years are nearly identical. Both were under Cam Cameron. Then, Brees leaves for a new system, with a real OC and a pass happy offense, and suddenly his production goes through the roof. Same would happen if Flacco went over there. Again, not knocking Brees, but he has it MUCH easier than Flacco.

 

As for the remark about referencing stats, you really need to use your discernment. All the guy did was show you that Flacco throws the ball deep far more often than Brady, so logically Brady should have a better completion %.  That is much different than the average moron who whines that Flacco hasn't put up 4k yards and 40 TDs yet, so obviously he is overrated

[5aiah]

"

Agree to disagree. But I watch more than just Ravens game and I see a difference that can't always be pinned on everyone aside from Joe. Those are his weaknesses in that he isn't consistent in those areas relative to multiple other QBs. Other QBs I watch a lot of are Freeman,Bradford, and Arod and I notice the difference(and strengths and weaknesses) in skill in all of them.

"

 

Sound familiar? Because that is exactly what you said on the previous page. And accuracy seems to be the latest gripe you have on Flacco, so I assume that is what you are refering to.

What exactly is Freeman consistently better than Flacco at, other than turning the ball over and making bad decisions? He's more mobile, and has nicer hair. That's about it.

So what is the point of bringing Freeman up if your argument is that Flacco doesn't do some unmentioned tasks as consistently as Freeman? To simply mention they have different skills? Well, duh...

I was making the point that I watch multiple QBs on a regular basis so I know their relative differences very well. Was differentiating myself from you because im pretty sure you don't watch other QBs(elite or not) on a consistent basis or you would be able to tell the difference in accuracy level. You would be able to give me your top 10(in order) list of accurate QBs. But you can't because you probably only watch Flacco which makes this conversation entirely useless. Thats my point. If you only consistently watch one guy well of course you are going to think hes extremely accurate.

 

 Then, Brees leaves for a new system, with a real OC and a pass happy offense, and suddenly his production goes through the roof. Same would happen if Flacco went over there. Again, not knocking Brees, but he has it MUCH easier than Flacco.

 

As for the remark about referencing stats, you really need to use your discernment. All the guy did was show you that Flacco throws the ball deep far more often than Brady, so logically Brady should have a better completion %.  That is much different than the average moron who whines that Flacco hasn't put up 4k yards and 40 TDs yet, so obviously he is overrated

Flacco has to really improve in areas that as of right now keep him from thriving in systems like Brees plays in. He just isn't there yet. The same wouldn't happen, not at all. But you will believe this no matter what so i will leave you to it. Brady makes far more finesse passes, is much more accurate overall and just plain better at reading defenses than Flacco. Not even going to get into that because I already spoke on how bad completion percentage is. My point stands, whenever Flacco is criticized using stats, ravens fans are the first to cry foul and how the eye test should be used when it comes to him(stats are for people who don't watch the game), but here we are now debating accuracy among the leagues best and people who don't watch anyone other than Flacco throw on a consistent basis, are using stats to claim the others aren't as accurate as they seem because they throw this and that and blah blah blah. Giving most of the credit to these guys receivers after they claimed foul when the national media does the same to Flacco. Again, the irony of these posts man. The hypocrisy and homerism run rampant.  

[flynismo]

I was making the point that I watch multiple QBs on a regular basis so I know their relative differences very well. Was differentiating myself from you because im pretty sure you don't watch other QBs(elite or not) on a consistent basis or you would be able to tell the difference in accuracy level. You would be able to give me your top 10(in order) list of accurate QBs. But you can't because you probably only watch Flacco which makes this conversation entirely useless. Thats my point. If you only consistently watch one guy well of course you are going to think hes extremely accurate.

 

Flacco has to really improve in areas that as of right now keep him from thriving in systems like Brees plays in. He just isn't there yet. The same wouldn't happen, not at all. But you will believe this no matter what so i will leave you to it. Brady makes far more finesse passes, is much more accurate overall and just plain better at reading defenses than Flacco. Not even going to get into that because I already spoke on how bad completion percentage is. My point stands, whenever Flacco is criticized using stats, ravens fans are the first to cry foul and how the eye test should be used when it comes to him(stats are for people who don't watch the game), but here we are now debating accuracy among the leagues best and people who don't watch anyone other than Flacco throw on a consistent basis, are using stats to claim the others aren't as accurate as they seem because they throw this and that and blah blah blah. Giving most of the credit to these guys receivers after they claimed foul when the national media does the same to Flacco. Again, the irony of these posts man. The hypocrisy and homerism run rampant.  

Hypocrisy. Stop with your BS. I simply said Flacco going to NO, we would likely not see any drop in production, and I gave my reasons why. I didn't give stats or use stats, so dont accuse me of being a hypocrite. In fact, I even gave you three videos and a link to an article from a respected local writer that contradicted what you were spouting off.

And how do you know what I do and don't watch? I can tell you I've in all likelihood seen Brees play far more than you have. And for all your claims that you follow all these different QB, you sure as hell don't pay much attention to what you see, or are piss poor in evaluating what you are supposedly watching.

 

Do you even have anything to address what I said in the post above? Because I notice a pattern in your posts....they all whine about other people not being as intelligent as you think you are, and what homers and hypocrites we are...which is all well and good, but at least give something other than "I watched Freeman and Bradford play, and as a result of my studies, I have determined that Flacco needs to improve certain areas of his game". I mean, it is easy to state the obvious, like Brady is great at reading defenses and is a dump off queen, or that Flacco makes a bad throw ocassionally and needs to "keep working to be a complete QB". But someone of your superior intellect should be able to blow us away with some real knowledge. We're waiting...I'll give you a nudge; blow us away and show me your evidence indicating that Brees and Brady are significantly more accurate than Flacco is, as you claim. Until you can do that, or at least just formulate an argument that does not consist of "I watched this game last year, just take my word on it", I'll have to assume you are just another windbag with nothing of substance to say.

 

But you are at least right about one thing, this conversation is useless.

[t45]

I'm just in awe of 12,000 plus post count. Even with 1 word reply's and such , to all of the boards I post on spanning may topics I'm sure I have not reached 12k , damn rock on.

 

Peanut gallery intermission over , please carry on.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I was making the point that I watch multiple QBs on a regular basis so I know their relative differences very well. Was differentiating myself from you because im pretty sure you don't watch other QBs(elite or not) on a consistent basis or you would be able to tell the difference in accuracy level. You would be able to give me your top 10(in order) list of accurate QBs. But you can't because you probably only watch Flacco which makes this conversation entirely useless. Thats my point. If you only consistently watch one guy well of course you are going to think hes extremely accurate.


Flacco has to really improve in areas that as of right now keep him from thriving in systems like Brees plays in. He just isn't there yet. The same wouldn't happen, not at all. But you will believe this no matter what so i will leave you to it. Brady makes far more finesse passes, is much more accurate overall and just plain better at reading defenses than Flacco. Not even going to get into that because I already spoke on how bad completion percentage is. My point stands, whenever Flacco is criticized using stats, ravens fans are the first to cry foul and how the eye test should be used when it comes to him(stats are for people who don't watch the game), but here we are now debating accuracy among the leagues best and people who don't watch anyone other than Flacco throw on a consistent basis, are using stats to claim the others aren't as accurate as they seem because they throw this and that and blah blah blah. Giving most of the credit to these guys receivers after they claimed foul when the national media does the same to Flacco. Again, the irony of these posts man. The hypocrisy and homerism run rampant.

Watching football doesn't mean you understand or can evaluate football.

"I watch a lot of movies, and I watch George clooney, Johnny depp, and Samuel l Jackson all the time so I can tell you that George clooney is the best."

What's your basis for that assessment?

"I told you I watch ALOT of movies, and I know"

Oh, ok.

-----------

That's not an argument, that's an opinion. Which you're more than welcome to have, but it's silly to defend an opinion so fiercely when you have nothing but your own experience to back it up. So unless you had Gruden watching with you and confirming that your analysis of those QBs is even somewhat relevant - your analysis is never going to hold weight with anyone but you.

[5aiah]

Hypocrisy. Stop with your BS. I simply said Flacco going to NO, we would likely not see any drop in production, and I gave my reasons why. I didn't give stats or use stats, so dont accuse me of being a hypocrite. In fact, I even gave you three videos and a link to an article from a respected local writer that contradicted what you were spouting off.

And how do you know what I do and don't watch? I can tell you I've in all likelihood seen Brees play far more than you have. And for all your claims that you follow all these different QB, you sure as hell don't pay much attention to what you see, or are piss poor in evaluating what you are supposedly watching.

 

Do you even have anything to address what I said in the post above? Because I notice a pattern in your posts....they all whine about other people not being as intelligent as you think you are, and what homers and hypocrites we are...which is all well and good, but at least give something other than "I watched Freeman and Bradford play, and as a result of my studies, I have determined that Flacco needs to improve certain areas of his game". I mean, it is easy to state the obvious, like Brady is great at reading defenses and is a dump off queen, or that Flacco makes a bad throw ocassionally and needs to "keep working to be a complete QB". But someone of your superior intellect should be able to blow us away with some real knowledge. We're waiting...I'll give you a nudge; blow us away and show me your evidence indicating that Brees and Brady are significantly more accurate than Flacco is, as you claim. Until you can do that, or at least just formulate an argument that does not consist of "I watched this game last year, just take my word on it", I'll have to assume you are just another windbag with nothing of substance to say.

 

But you are at least right about one thing, this conversation is useless.

But you didin't give any good reasons why and you ignored my main points. You also didn't give much to contradict or refute what I said since my point is that he has been inconsistent in terms of accuracy,I've already acknowledged that he can make excellent throws yet you keep coming up with evidence that doesn't refute my main point. I don't know what you watch or not which is why I made the point of listing a top 10 of accurate QBs you've seen this year. Lets see it. You talk like someone who has only seen Flacco on a regular basis. You've seen Brees play far more than I have,ok bro whatever you say. As for my evaluation on the QBs I follow, I didn't give any on Bradford or Freeman on this board,ever, and haven't given much on Arod in this thread, this is an example of you not actually responding to my posts but making stuff up just to post your counter response based on nothing. You have done it before. I've addressed your posts and refuted or disagreed with them but you consistently argue against points I never make. You can say all you want about my previous post being snobby or whatever but it was true based on what I've read on this board. I'm not making any of that up and I actually think you were the guy with the "stats are for people who don't watch the game" line. Then you back up someone else's(who likely isn't watching the games) use of stats that doesn't even refute my point. You really don't refute anything in our debates and usually just end up resorting to ad hominem attacks. Or stuff like claiming I said Freeman did anything better than Flacco. I'm starting to think you are a troll. Apparently I'm not stating the obvious because you disagree. You will call Brady a dump off queen when Flacco's biggest pass of the regular season was 4th and 29. I have read your posts, responded, and refrained from using the the low tactics you use(just to win an argument on a message board). Its because I want to learn, so can you actually add something of substance and refute my points and get back on topic. I've addressed the situation of Flacco going from a run first, play action, deep ball offense to an all around passing attack where it all depends on him making the throws and plays all game with a lot less help from the run game. I've actually been on topic.

 

Watching football doesn't mean you understand or can evaluate football.

It doesn't, which was a point of mine in an earlier thread about advanced stats and why they can be used for good debate. But that was shot down with lines like "stats are for people who don't watch the game". I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy, not just this particular poster I'm responding to but others as well who claim stats can't be used against Flacco, but then rush for the basic ones that don't add to the debate when they support him. 

[5aiah]

Watching football doesn't mean you understand or can evaluate football.

"I watch a lot of movies, and I watch George clooney, Johnny depp, and Samuel l Jackson all the time so I can tell you that George clooney is the best."

What's your basis for that assessment?

"I told you I watch ALOT of movies, and I know"

Oh, ok.

-----------

That's not an argument, that's an opinion. Which you're more than welcome to have, but it's silly to defend an opinion so fiercely when you have nothing but your own experience to back it up. So unless you had Gruden watching with you and confirming that your analysis of those QBs is even somewhat relevant - your analysis is never going to hold weight with anyone but you.

Thats the point I was making with advanced stats it can back what you see up. I supplement my viewing of games on all-22 with PFF, FO, and some articles like ones on Grantland(one that has bearing on my view of how far along Flacco is in terms or reading zones).  http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/49235/how-joe-flaccos-big-arm-can-exploit-the-49ers-secondary

When I read that it reinforced my own thought on Flacco have problems reading zone coverages but not being bad reading defenses overall. We tailored our offense to give him the easiest of reads against man coverage because he just isn't the type to fully pick you apart in zone consistently. That combined with some of his boneheaded throws against zone in the regular season made me confident in my opinion.  https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/17/refo-broncos-ravens-week-15/

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/14/3tfo-broncos-ravens-week-15/

 

EDIT: Also I'd like to hijack that movie analogy and make it a little more relevant to the situation. It would be like us discussing who has the finer acting skills(between actor A and B ) but instead the person I'm debating with is bringing up B's stellar box office performance(which can have little bearing on our debate about fine acting skills) and has not seen a significant number of A's movies, instead mainly preferring to watch B's movies.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Thats the point I was making with advanced stats it can back what you see up. I supplement my viewing of games on all-22 with PFF, FO, and some articles like ones on Grantland(one that has bearing on my view of how far along Flacco is in terms or reading zones).  http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/49235/how-joe-flaccos-big-arm-can-exploit-the-49ers-secondary
When I read that it reinforced my own thought on Flacco have problems reading zone coverages but not being bad reading defenses overall. We tailored our offense to give him the easiest of reads against man coverage because he just isn't the type to fully pick you apart in zone consistently. That combined with some of his boneheaded throws against zone in the regular season made me confident in my opinion.  https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/17/refo-broncos-ravens-week-15/
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/14/3tfo-broncos-ravens-week-15/
 
EDIT: Also I'd like to hijack that movie analogy and make it a little more relevant to the situation. It would be like us discussing who has the finer acting skills(between actor A and B ) but instead the person I'm debating with is bringing up B's stellar box office performance(which can have little bearing on our debate about fine acting skills) and has not seen a significant number of A's movies, instead mainly preferring to watch B's movies.

Even if Flacco has trouble with zone reads, how does that equate to in accuracy.

A step further - you provide analysis and support it saying the offense was formulated with many man to man reads as to make it "easier" on Flacco. BUT if all his receivers are terrible at beating man coverage and creating separation, how does it make anything easier.

The reads may be more clear but the throws then become increasingly difficult. That's where some simple stats hold at least some relevance. Flacco may have an easier progression to read (if I were to accept your analysis) but that leads right into the fact that it equates to a much higher difficulty throw bc it's what his targets struggle with - therefore making his accuracy that much MORE impressive - not taking away from it.

Smaller windows, further distances, under more pressure (bc the routes take more time to develop) yet still completing a high percentage. The spells highly accurate in my opinion. And not only is that logical, I've watched a lot of tape that supports it. And jaws and Gruden have done analysis to support it I just have to dig it up.

[gabefergy]

Hypocrisy. Stop with your BS. I simply said Flacco going to NO, we would likely not see any drop in production, and I gave my reasons why. I didn't give stats or use stats, so dont accuse me of being a hypocrite. In fact, I even gave you three videos and a link to an article from a respected local writer that contradicted what you were spouting off.
And how do you know what I do and don't watch? I can tell you I've in all likelihood seen Brees play far more than you have. And for all your claims that you follow all these different QB, you sure as hell don't pay much attention to what you see, or are piss poor in evaluating what you are supposedly watching.

Do you even have anything to address what I said in the post above? Because I notice a pattern in your posts....they all whine about other people not being as intelligent as you think you are, and what homers and hypocrites we are...which is all well and good, but at least give something other than "I watched Freeman and Bradford play, and as a result of my studies, I have determined that Flacco needs to improve certain areas of his game". I mean, it is easy to state the obvious, like Brady is great at reading defenses and is a dump off queen, or that Flacco makes a bad throw ocassionally and needs to "keep working to be a complete QB". But someone of your superior intellect should be able to blow us away with some real knowledge. We're waiting...I'll give you a nudge; blow us away and show me your evidence indicating that Brees and Brady are significantly more accurate than Flacco is, as you claim. Until you can do that, or at least just formulate an argument that does not consist of "I watched this game last year, just take my word on it", I'll have to assume you are just another windbag with nothing of substance to say.

But you are at least right about one thing, this conversation is useless.

We have a winner folks!

[5aiah]

We have a winner folks!

That's not what its about for me, which is why this conversation has gone like this. If you actually read the posts you see he doesn't add anything to the discussion aside from arguing against points not made and points already refuted. I pointed out the hypocrisy(based in homerism)  that occurs when people defend Flacco but can't do it intelligently. I just want to learn more, not win some discussion on a message board. But that's what this is all about,I guess.

 

Even if Flacco has trouble with zone reads, how does that equate to in accuracy.

A step further - you provide analysis and support it saying the offense was formulated with many man to man reads as to make it "easier" on Flacco. BUT if all his receivers are terrible at beating man coverage and creating separation, how does it make anything easier.

The reads may be more clear but the throws then become increasingly difficult. That's where some simple stats hold at least some relevance. Flacco may have an easier progression to read (if I were to accept your analysis) but that leads right into the fact that it equates to a much higher difficulty throw bc it's what his targets struggle with - therefore making his accuracy that much MORE impressive - not taking away from it.

Smaller windows, further distances, under more pressure (bc the routes take more time to develop) yet still completing a high percentage. The spells highly accurate in my opinion. And not only is that logical, I've watched a lot of tape that supports it. And jaws and Gruden have done analysis to support it I just have to dig it up.

Actually I wasn't using that as an argument against his accuracy but an example of where and how I back what I see(from watching the games) up. Also I would point out that Pitta and Boldin were actually great at beating man coverage they just did it in different ways. Boldin didn't lose his route running ability, it was always just average but he has been killing defenders in man since he got to the NFL. Pitta is usually covered by a line backer and his route running ability as well as pseed is usually too much for them. When a DB is on him he can easily make great catches over them. Torrey can beat even the greatest defenders deep as can Jacoby at times so when you look at the plays that were called and successful you can see that they were extremely easy reads. That being said i never claimed Flacco had bad accuracy just that it could be very inconsistent short to mid range and that he makes very conservative deep throws(overthrows where the DB but also sometimes the WR can't get to it). I said his accuracy was solid but inconsistent but that he can make big play throws, I've said that all along. Pitta Rice and Boldin all have advantages in man coverage vs their respective defenders. Also knowing his two main possession receivers have quite the range, means being accurate isn't nearly as hard as you are making it out to be by saying his receivers were terrible against man.

[Militant X 1]

:258801:

 

~Mili