QB Joe Flacco

[PolishRifle]

See i don't think he does. I think he gets bashed for not being consistently accurate(among other things) and that's a legit point. Brees is laser like(consistently) with his passes and despite his lack of a cannon is one of the best deep ball throwers(top 5) in the entire league so of course he is going to get the benefit of the doubt. Joe just doesn't do what they do on a consistent basis in terms of ball placement so while of course it is unfair that he doesn't always get credit it is rooted in some truth and is just part of the deal until Flacco steps up and proves them wrong. Or he can just go out and win another Superbowl,pinpoint accuracy isn't everything. No matter who won the Superbowl a strong arm QB was going to win. 

 

That's really hard to accept, just because the Saints have such a ridiculous high powered offense with one of the best offensive minds standing on the sideline. Everyone talks how accurate Brees is and he very well might be more accurate than Flacco, but I don't see how they are worlds apart. So much so, that we shouldn't even compare them.

Brees always had really good receiving talent around him and in his time under Cam he was somewhat more accurate (averaging 62,1% as oppossed to Joe's 60,6%), but also more prone to mistakes.

 

Brees:

TD/INT ratios of: 17/16; 11/15; 27/7 (really good I admit); 24/15;

compared to Joes:

TD/INT ratios of: 14/12; 21/12; 25/10; 20/12; 22/10;

 

So how is Brees+Cam better than Joe+Cam? I don't see the huge difference!

The difference is the conference he plays in, the receivers he has, his HC and media perception.

I am not saying, that Joe is as good or better than Brees, because Joe is just entering his prime, while Brees is an established player, but I can't find where both are worlds apart. Maybe in skillset, but not in overall production.

[1/28/01]

Actually you didn't read the post fully or you wouldn't have responded that way. You can't refute the truth, and here you try with a fallacy. I'm talking about actually watching the different QBs(elite accuracy) a number of games and seeing the difference. That stat you posted isn't necessarily indicative of actual QB accuracy but instead ability to limit turnovers,which I gave Flacco a ton of credit for and explained why he is able to do so as well as providing a statistical picture of said ability that backed up my opinion of how and where he best limits turnovers. You win for most ironic post ever sir. You have a high post count I see, but its quality over quantity. Thanks for the laugh though.

I think I know a little about quality there fella. And you cant award anything. Sorry, you havent earned that right. Now carry on with your little incorrect and misguided banter. I find it fun to sit back and read.

[callahan09]

I think I know a little about quality there fella. And you cant award anything. Sorry, you havent earned that right. Now carry on with your little incorrect and misguided banter. I find it fun to sit back and read.

He is sure one to talk about your post count and "quality over quantity"... He has only been here for two months and already has 700 posts. That's over 12 posts per day, which is more than your average per day.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Flacco this preseason has 32 completions on 40 attempts for a completion percentage of 80%.

And that's despite several drops & INTs that were mostly the WRs & TEs fault.

Accuracy hasn't been the issue with Flacco.

The only thing he's done wrong is stare down his targets on occasion, which is hopefully a flaw that he corrects.

Aside from that, his performance has been nearly flawless.

[1/28/01]

He is sure one to talk about your post count and "quality over quantity"... He has only been here for two months and already has 700 posts. That's over 12 posts per day, which is more than your average per day.

Thank you, sir. Ha!

[Ravenslifer]

Those guys have pinpoint accuracy and usually put it in the perfect spot where it is easy for them to get it and only they can do so, on a consistent basis. Flacco hasn't shown that and while he almost always puts it in a spot where only his receiver can get it when throwing deep deep, the same can't always be said elsewhere. That and he also has a tendency to overthrow quite a bit,which is a major factor of him never turning it over deep. I rather him do that than under throw for a pick trying to do something he can't on a consistent basis. Comparing Flacco to the leagues most accurate QBs just isn't a good idea. He might not even be a top 10 QB in terms of pure accuracy. What he does have is a major cannon though with good enough accuracy to make big plays down field, zip the ball into tight spots short to mid range and the aforementioned tendency that limits turnovers greatly.  

 

It's funny you mention Flacco compared to other quarterbacks and accuracy - in 5 years Joe is averaging 60.5 percent.  In their first 5 years, Drew Brees averaged 60.8, Peyton Manning averaged 62, and Tom Brady averaged 62 percent.  Now keep in mind that 1) none of these guys plays in an offense where downfield passing is the primary emphasis, and 2) I removed Brady's and Brees' rookie seasons because they largely didn't play, giving them the advantage over Joe of having an entire season and 2 offseasons to learn the playbook before starting.  You're unfairly comparing what Joe has done in the first few years in the league to guys who've been in the league twice as long as he has - in terms of the numbers he's put up in his first 5 seasons to their first 5 seasons, he compares favorably.  Neither Brady or Brees managed 4000 yards or 30+ TDs in their first five seasons either.

[flynismo]

Don't think you guys understand what people mean when they say a QB makes the WRs better. They usually mean they work the offense in a way that allows the receivers to have a much easier time. The truth is Flacco has not yet proven to be that type of guy nor does he really need to be as he will get help soon. The hopes is that Flacco can become such a player and that would easily justify his pay grade instead of paying all that money for "just" a clutch strong arm QB. One problem I see is that (Bltravens) references Flaccos pinpoint accuracy,while a few of his throws maybe be right on the money, compared to other QBs I watch, his accuracy is nothing to write home about. You speak of Boldin's lack of separation but his range and ability to stretch out and make difficult catches also helped even when a throw was off,no matter if he was fully covered or not. Anyway, the ability to run a variety of complex routes that can break down defenses is something that can help receivers greatly, but that requires top knotch zone reading ability and sound decision making, chemistry, and trust in a receiver in man coverage as well. The majority of Flacco's key plays for first downs were simple passes vs man coverage(by a slot corner safety or linebacker) on Pitta and Boldin. Timing is also a crucial element to raising a receivers play and is something Flacco will have to improve on if he wants to join the ranks of "WR making"QBs. Lastly the offensive coordinator has to be in complete harmony with the passer and know said passer in and out or at least get with the program quickly. They each have to have full trust the other completely. I think Flacco has been set up for a great year and will begin improving on his weaknesses and in turn become a "WR Maker" like his fellow elite. He already has the arm.

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if you really even watch all these games that you say you do.

 

Yes, timing is critical --- in the appropriate offense, or perhaps on a specific play.

And pretty irrelevant in the offense that we run. We dont run the Tom Brady / Matt Ryan 3 step drop dink and dunk thing; at least not significantly. And, if there are issues with timing, I'm looking at guys like Torrey, who the last two years has shown some serious issues being able to track the ball downfield, guys like Doss who run the wrong way.

Do you remember Mason? Remember the chemistry they had? The deep out was elevated to a work of art when watching those two guys execute it. Please dont tell me Flacco has issues with timing. Or accuracy. Just nonsense. Flacco throws into windows that 98% of other QBs would not dare. And those that would are usually turnover machines (Romo is who I am especially refering to). And yet Flacco has one of the lowest INT % in the history of the NFL.

[flynismo]

He is sure one to talk about your post count and "quality over quantity"... He has only been here for two months and already has 700 posts. That's over 12 posts per day, which is more than your average per day.

There you go with your stats again  :D

[Sizzlebshu]

Yeah, and we also drafted Terrence Cody before Geno Atkins. 

 

2010 was a pretty rough year for Ozzie. Not sure how any of this has to do with Joe, though. 

Hate to bring this up as I know it wasn't a bust pick but Kindle before Gronk (nothing Ozzie could do about this one altho I don't think Kindle would have ended up as the type of player Gronk is). I mean seriously was Ozzie even trying that year?

[The Raven]

Hate to bring this up as I know it wasn't a bust pick but Kindle before Gronk (nothing Ozzie could do about this one altho I don't think Kindle would have ended up as the type of player Gronk is). I mean seriously was Ozzie even trying that year?

 

In all fairness, each of those picks looked genius at the time. Kindle had a freak accident. Until that accident happened, he was looking to be the next great Raven defender. He had freak potential, and I defy you to tell me he didn't. Cody had potential but he still hasn't acted on it. Pitta and Dickson were hits. David Reed, believe it or not, had very respectable college production. He had 25 for 427 yards and 6 touchdowns in his junior year. He had 81 for 1188 and 4 touchdowns his senior year. He set conference records for receptions and yardage last year. That's a good pick if you ask me. Arthur Jones was a HUGE hit in the fifth round. Great pick there. Harewood was a low risk, high potential player. He started a few games and played fairly well. This year, the oline was crowded, and he was the odd man out. 

 

I don't know how you can blame Ozzie for anything that went wrong with that draft. Every player there was a good pick. Period. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

You cant argue accuracy as a skill set without doing testing. Stats and the eye test really cant measure it accurately - there's just too many variables.

 

QBs like Brees and Peyton who played much of their careers in a dome don't have the elements to deal with. Then theres WR talent. Some guys make insane catches while on other plays they can drop passes. An insane catch is usually the result of an inaccurate throw but hits a positive mark on the QBs accuracy rating, while a drop is usually an accurate ball that has a negative mark.

 

Then theres the issue of the eyeball test... You can watch all the film you want but without know the specific play call and all the variables associated you cant make an objective judgment. A ball could be thrown behind the receiver, and we assume that's a bad throw. But what if the receiver over ran the spot or got there too early? Or what if there was an understanding that if the db has a step the throw is coming back shoulder and the receiver just didn't read it? or a ball thrown high bc the defender was underneath but the receiver doesn't react and jump? Looks like an inaccurate throw from the QB but really was a mistake on the receivers part.

 

Then you've got different offenses like Fly said. When you throw 30-40 times a game its easier to get in rhythm and be accurate. When your passing game is mainly short to intermediate stuff, its a lot easier to be accurate. Theres a 3 pointer in bball for a reason. 

 

And then there's the variable that everyone is covered so im gonna throw this ball where it cant be intercepted, but still in the area of my target to give him a chance to make a play. if he cant no harm, and if he can it looks like a terrible throw and the receiver bailed out the QB.... even though with that knowledge it was a perfectly placed ball.

 

Numbers are rarely the entire story. Flacco has comparable statistics when it comes to accuracy and that's with many variables against him: rarely playing in domes and frequently in the elements, playing in a deep ball system, in an offense that runs the ball frequently meaning more difficult throws with less reps to get into rhythm, has played in the most defensive minded division in football over the past 5 years, and with receivers who notoriously have had a reputation for not creating separation.

 

Im not going to sit here and make an argument that Flacco is the most accurate QB, but im also not going to sit here and accept that hes not nearly as accurate as the Peytons, Bradys, Rodgers, and Brees' of the world.

[5aiah]

I think I know a little about quality there fella. And you cant award anything. Sorry, you havent earned that right. Now carry on with your little incorrect and misguided banter. I find it fun to sit back and read.

Lets stay on topic instead of falling into back and forth ad hominem. I made a point, you tried to refute it, I called out how it had little to do with my take on Flacco that you disagreed with and had more to do with something I gave Joe credit for. You are now trying to save face. lets stick to the debate please and how about you go read our posts and tell me if you disagree with my points, but this time use the right stuff to back up your claim.

 

I'm starting to wonder if you really even watch all these games that you say you do.

 

Yes, timing is critical --- in the appropriate offense, or perhaps on a specific play.

And pretty irrelevant in the offense that we run. We dont run the Tom Brady / Matt Ryan 3 step drop dink and dunk thing; at least not significantly. And, if there are issues with timing, I'm looking at guys like Torrey, who the last two years has shown some serious issues being able to track the ball downfield, guys like Doss who run the wrong way.

Do you remember Mason? Remember the chemistry they had? The deep out was elevated to a work of art when watching those two guys execute it. Please dont tell me Flacco has issues with timing. Or accuracy. Just nonsense. Flacco throws into windows that 98% of other QBs would not dare. And those that would are usually turnover machines (Romo is who I am especially refering to). And yet Flacco has one of the lowest INT % in the history of the NFL.

Agree to disagree. But I watch more than just Ravens game and I see a difference that can't always be pinned on everyone aside from Joe. Those are his weaknesses in that he isn't consistent in those areas relative to multiple other QBs. Other QBs I watch a lot of are Freeman,Bradford, and Arod and I notice the difference(and strengths and weaknesses) in skill in all of them.

 

It's funny you mention Flacco compared to other quarterbacks and accuracy - in 5 years Joe is averaging 60.5 percent.  In their first 5 years, Drew Brees averaged 60.8, Peyton Manning averaged 62, and Tom Brady averaged 62 percent. 

I would use accuracy percentage over something like completions percentage when making a case for accuracy. Completions is skewed by balls batted down, drops, and ball thrown away. Also I'm not really using stats for this as much as other guys are(stats that don't really have much to do with my claims), I don't need to. I know from watching the NFL that while Flacco has solid accuracy most of the time he can be inconsistent in that regard and aside from that isn't near the top QBs in terms of accuracy. Brady,Ryan,Arod,Peyton and Brees are all more accurate throwing the ball and more consistent as well. It's ok to say Joe Flacco has weaknesses,everyone does.  

 

That's really hard to accept, just because the Saints have such a ridiculous high powered offense with one of the best offensive minds standing on the sideline. Everyone talks how accurate Brees is and he very well might be more accurate than Flacco, but I don't see how they are worlds apart. So much so, that we shouldn't even compare them.

I am not saying, that Joe is as good or better than Brees, because Joe is just entering his prime, while Brees is an established player, but I can't find where both are worlds apart. Maybe in skillset, but not in overall production.

 

 That was all I was saying. Brees is much more accurate but no they aren't worlds apart. Also I've praised Flacco's production, just pointing out some of his weaknesses and why they pertain to the subject we were debating.

 

. 

[5aiah]

You cant argue accuracy as a skill set without doing testing. Stats and the eye test really cant measure it accurately - there's just too many variables.

 

QBs like Brees and Peyton who played much of their careers in a dome don't have the elements to deal with. Then theres WR talent. Some guys make insane catches while on other plays they can drop passes. An insane catch is usually the result of an inaccurate throw but hits a positive mark on the QBs accuracy rating, while a drop is usually an accurate ball that has a negative mark.

 

Then theres the issue of the eyeball test... You can watch all the film you want but without know the specific play call and all the variables associated you cant make an objective judgment. A ball could be thrown behind the receiver, and we assume that's a bad throw. But what if the receiver over ran the spot or got there too early? Or what if there was an understanding that if the db has a step the throw is coming back shoulder and the receiver just didn't read it? or a ball thrown high bc the defender was underneath but the receiver doesn't react and jump? Looks like an inaccurate throw from the QB but really was a mistake on the receivers part.

 

Then you've got different offenses like Fly said. When you throw 30-40 times a game its easier to get in rhythm and be accurate. When your passing game is mainly short to intermediate stuff, its a lot easier to be accurate. Theres a 3 pointer in bball for a reason. 

 

And then there's the variable that everyone is covered so im gonna throw this ball where it cant be intercepted, but still in the area of my target to give him a chance to make a play. if he cant no harm, and if he can it looks like a terrible throw and the receiver bailed out the QB.... even though with that knowledge it was a perfectly placed ball.

 

Numbers are rarely the entire story. Flacco has comparable statistics when it comes to accuracy and that's with many variables against him: rarely playing in domes and frequently in the elements, playing in a deep ball system, in an offense that runs the ball frequently meaning more difficult throws with less reps to get into rhythm, has played in the most defensive minded division in football over the past 5 years, and with receivers who notoriously have had a reputation for not creating separation.

 

Im not going to sit here and make an argument that Flacco is the most accurate QB, but im also not going to sit here and accept that hes not nearly as accurate as the Peytons, Bradys, Rodgers, and Brees' of the world.

Yeah no doubt there are variables of playcalling and not knowing exactly where these guys are supposed to be and in turn whether or not the throw was where it was supposed to be but once you've watched a team enough you have an idea. Read a pretty good article a long time ago on how the Colts(Peyton era) really only used relatively few plays to decimate defenses an entire game. I believe you can(if you aren't lazy) find enough information to paint an accurate picture of what an offense is running and the strengths and weaknesses of the guys in it. Like you can find information on the plays we run and how they are designed to give Flacco very simple reads(something he can struggle with at times) and then you see it for yourself more often when watching. I get what you are saying, I'm not saying im 100% correct but statistics,analysts, and the play calling(from what I can tell) all match up with my eye test that he isn't nearly as accurate as the Peytons,Bradys,Rodgers, and Brees' of the world. Would also say Matt Ryan is more accurate as well. As for the "different offenses" argument I get that the small stuff gets you into a rhythm much more so then handing the ball off to ray rice on first and second down every drive. I get that he plays is worse weather than some of those other guys, but to me he was drafted because his strengths fit our offense and our style of play as well as the division's. I don't think his accuracy(or reading ability) is totally reliable enough to play in the type of offenses they do where you have to throw up to 50 times a game and make a ton of finesse throws. He is at his best making those deep power throws and those rockets that shoot in between defenders before they know what passed them. That and play action and the run game hide his weaknesses as well. I think in those offenses with no run game or PA he would be exposed and that is the difference between him and them. He is in this system for a reason so I'm not buying that argument. As to his willingness to overthrow(a sort of conservative deep throw) I've already praised him for that yet people still post crap about TD to INT ratios when I'm the one who first mentioned that in terms of deep throwing he throws INTs less than any other area on the field. I love what Flacco brings to the team he is a unique Ravens type QB. That being said he still has a ways to go and is not near those guys yet in accuracy or consistency. Agree to disagree.    

[flynismo]

Just for kicks, for the people who think Flacco's receivers bail him out, or think Flacco isn't accurate enough.

 

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/53758-news-late-for-work-86-illogical-to-say-joe-flacco-doesnt-make-receivers-better/
 

One of the most amazing throws you will ever see:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d34300/Flacco-to-Houshmandzadeh-TD

 

Talk about throwing into tight coverage and putting the ball where only your receiver can make the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJETviUYRWc
 

Once again, Boldin being covered tight, and look at the placement of this throw, while again hitting Boldin in stride:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d82220774/QB-Flacco-to-WR-Boldin-27-yd-pass-TD

 

 

I mean, I can go on and on with examples like this, but I think I've made my point. As Jaws said: "You look at the stats, I look at the tape"

Zing!

[1/28/01]

Lets stay on topic instead of falling into back and forth ad hominem. I made a point, you tried to refute it, I called out how it had little to do with my take on Flacco that you disagreed with and had more to do with something I gave Joe credit for. You are now trying to save face. lets stick to the debate please and how about you go read our posts and tell me if you disagree with my points, but this time use the right stuff to back up your claim.

Save face over what? An internet forum? Okay, fella. Carry on.

[flynismo]

Just for kicks, for the people who think Flacco's receivers bail him out, or think Flacco isn't accurate enough.

 

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/53758-news-late-for-work-86-illogical-to-say-joe-flacco-doesnt-make-receivers-better/
 

One of the most amazing throws you will ever see:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d34300/Flacco-to-Houshmandzadeh-TD

 

Talk about throwing into tight coverage and putting the ball where only your receiver can make the play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJETviUYRWc
 

Once again, Boldin being covered tight, and look at the placement of this throw, while again hitting Boldin in stride:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d82220774/QB-Flacco-to-WR-Boldin-27-yd-pass-TD

 

 

I mean, I can go on and on with examples like this, but I think I've made my point. As Jaws said: "You look at the stats, I look at the tape"

Zing!

 

+35

[flynismo]

Lets stay on topic instead of falling into back and forth ad hominem. I made a point, you tried to refute it, I called out how it had little to do with my take on Flacco that you disagreed with and had more to do with something I gave Joe credit for. You are now trying to save face. lets stick to the debate please and how about you go read our posts and tell me if you disagree with my points, but this time use the right stuff to back up your claim.

 

.

 

What's funny is that over in the Marlon Brown thread, he acknowledged that he made a mistake when responding to a post, and even did so without being prodded.

 

Moral of the story: don't try to make an arse out of somebody by trying to make him look petty and argumentative. Because in this instance, you are the one who needs to, and I quote, "use the right stuff to back up your claim".

 

And I say that out of love; I like you and like talking football with you, even though we never seem to agree.

[5aiah]

What's funny is that over in the Marlon Brown thread, he acknowledged that he made a mistake when responding to a post, and even did so without being prodded.

 

Moral of the story: don't try to make an arse out of somebody by trying to make him look petty and argumentative. Because in this instance, you are the one who needs to, and I quote, "use the right stuff to back up your claim".

 

And I say that out of love; I like you and like talking football with you, even though we never seem to agree.

The stat he used did not refute and had little to do with my first point. Instead it had more to do with my second point in which I praised Flacco. He then resorted to attacks and did not respond to my point about the topic. I'm trying to stay on topic,sorry about that. Read the posts dude.........

 

I like talking football with you too btw, none of this should be personal. I know we don't see eye to eye on Flacco but who cares.

 

Save face over what? An internet forum? Okay, fella. Carry on.

Proof is in the posts.

[flynismo]

Im not going to sit here and make an argument that Flacco is the most accurate QB, but im also not going to sit here and accept that hes not nearly as accurate as the Peytons, Bradys, Rodgers, and Brees' of the world.

 

What I have always found intriguing about those guys (and Flacco), is that yes they are accurate passers, but where they come into a league of their own is their accuracy and touch on the deep routes. It is one of the things that seperates them from your run of the mill "good" player, like Eli or Romo.

[flynismo]

I know we don't see eye to eye on Flacco but who cares.

 

See my sig! It is my duty to spread pro-Flacco propaganda.  :D

 

Speaking of which, I am awaiting you to refute the video evidence that I presented above.

[1/28/01]

The stat he used did not refute and had little to do with my first point. Instead it had more to do with my second point in which I praised Flacco. He then resorted to attacks and did not respond to my point about the topic. I'm trying to stay on topic,sorry about that. Read the posts dude.........

I like talking football with you too btw, none of this should be personal. I know we don't see eye to eye on Flacco but who cares.

Proof is in the posts.

Attacks? Proof in posts? Wow...

[billick]

Who is Joe throwing the ball to, Mason ? Todd Heap ?

 

Manning has had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in the same huddle.  Until we get Joe a WR he can grow with, what can be expected of him. Brady has had Welker and Randy Moss.

 

Flacco has been in the play offs every season of his career. We were one dropped bowl from consecutive Super Bowls.  We had a poor offensive co ordinator for the first part of his career.  Firing Cam Cam was a major improvement, and it should help Joe.

 

If our Great Front Office would get us a couple of decent WR's, it may help.

 

Do you want %, and stats, or wins and rings ?

 

Give it a break.

[5aiah]

See my sig! It is my duty to spread pro-Flacco propaganda.  :D

 

Speaking of which, I am awaiting you to refute the video evidence that I presented above.

Well for one as i was saying I was only going on what I've seen and was reluctant to bring stats into the conversation. It was everyone else who did that. I'm talking about looking at multiple QBs and comparing their throws on a consistent basis. I regularly watch 4(Flacco,Arod,Bradford,and Freeman) and I think that's enough for a solid opinion on accuracy, especially considering most only watch their team and then other games based on what is on TV. That video evidence doesn't refute my point that Flacco has solid but inconsistent accuracy. Also your evidence only serves to back me up on my second point, which was that Flacco is at his best throwing deep because he can make big plays happen but does it in a manner that it cant be intercepted. Remember when your buddy above responded with Flacco's TD:INT ratio, I had already made that point and gave Joe his credit in that area, yet people still respond to my first point with evidence(that doesnt refute anything) backing up my second point. This has been how the entire argument has gone which is why I responded that his post was so ironic.

[flynismo]

Who is Joe throwing the ball to, Mason ? Todd Heap ?

 

Manning has had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in the same huddle. 

Not to mention Dallas Clark and Edge, when all four of them were in their primes. All that and a great OL to boot.

 

People just dont seem to understand that every great QB has a great supporting cast

[5aiah]

Who is Joe throwing the ball to, Mason ? Todd Heap ?

 

Manning has had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne in the same huddle.  Until we get Joe a WR he can grow with, what can be expected of him. Brady has had Welker and Randy Moss.

 

Flacco has been in the play offs every season of his career. We were one dropped bowl from consecutive Super Bowls.  We had a poor offensive co ordinator for the first part of his career.  Firing Cam Cam was a major improvement, and it should help Joe.

 

If our Great Front Office would get us a couple of decent WR's, it may help.

 

Do you want %, and stats, or wins and rings ?

 

Give it a break.

This is the problem though, I'm saying Joe is a clutch winning QB who still needs to round out his game(based on what I have seen comparing him to other QBs that I have watched on a regular basis). The only people bringing up stats(terribly skewed and basic I might add) are the one claiming Flacco is a very accurate QB close to the level of Arod,Brees,etc. I know that phrase is the default line for defending Flacco but it doesn't apply here because I am praising him for doing the latter and not using the former to make my case.

[jimmypowder]

If Joe ever got a Megatron like receiver ,look out !

 

This is why Matty 'Theatrics on the scrimmage line" Ice  ain't near as good as Joe.

 

But the chimp has a couple of Pro Bowls .

 

Joe got a RING FOOL!

[flynismo]

This is the problem though, I'm saying Joe is a clutch winning QB who still needs to round out his game(based on what I have seen comparing him to other QBs that I have watched on a regular basis). The only people bringing up stats(terribly skewed and basic I might add) are the one claiming Flacco is a very accurate QB close to the level of Arod,Brees,etc. I know that phrase is the default line for defending Flacco but it doesn't apply here because I am praising him for doing the latter and not using the former to make my case.

 

One of those QBs that you said you watch on a rgular basis is Freeman. Are you implying that Freeman is a more accurate QB than Flacco?? If that is what you are saying, I think you need to watch the games a little closer

[flynismo]

If Joe ever got a Megatron like receiver ,look out !

 

This is why Matty 'Theatrics on the scrimmage line" Ice  ain't near as good as Joe.

 

But the chimp has a couple of Pro Bowls .

 

Joe got a RING FOOL!

If Joe had Marvin Harrison / Reggie Wayne / Dallas Clark / Edgerrin James all in their primes and a top 5 OL, playing in a dome, two of the best NFL QBs to ever play would have been from Baltimore teams.

 

And before anyone says anything dumb, it isnt a knock on Peyton, it is the reality that a great QB needs a great cast around him

[Tank 92]

+35

 

 

Did you really +35 yourself? 

 

I like it! Especially since you were defending Joe.........

[gabefergy]

Did you really +35 yourself? 

 

I like it! Especially since you were defending Joe.........

When you are the self-appointed President of The Flacco Lovers Foundation, you do what you want!