QB Joe Flacco

[ratedr]

I've done it now, ruh roh.

But guys, tell me. Flacco has one of the best INT rates in the league, but he's been throwing a LOT of picks in practice, and already has two this preseason (though one was more on Jacoby than him). Should we be concerned about this? Has he always thrown a lot of picks during camp? Serious question, I honestly don't know.

[ratedr]

Oh and this website said it was four picks, but Jeff Zrebeic of the Sun said it was 6 or 7. I know it's camp, but that is a lot.

I can't be the only one who thinks Flacco has looked off lately.

[caljoe2]

I've done it now, ruh roh.

But guys, tell me. Flacco has one of the best INT rates in the league, but he's been throwing a LOT of picks in practice, and already has two this preseason (though one was more on Jacoby than him). Should we be concerned about this? Has he always thrown a lot of picks during camp? Serious question, I honestly don't know.

I really can't speak for training camp because I have watched very little film but if the first 2 preseason games are any indication much of it has to do with the WR play. Due to poor route running and technique the WR's for the most part are not creating separation from the defenders thus we are seeing many throws into tight coverage. To compound matters many of the receivers are not being aggressive in going after these contested balls in tight coverage and/or winning these battles. Won't even mention the number of drops there have been. Don't get me wrong Flacco is not totally blameless in this. He has made some mistakes and looked off on his timing on occasion but I think that has more to do with all the new faces more then anything else. The one positive I have gotten from his play is the fact that he has a 70+ (77% I think?) completion rating which is unbelievable considering the WR play.

[ratedr]

I really can't speak for training camp because I have watched very little film but if the first 2 preseason games are any indication much of it has to do with the WR play. Due to poor route running and technique the WR's for the most part are not creating separation from the defenders thus we are seeing many throws into tight coverage. To compound matters many of the receivers are not being aggressive in going after these contested balls in tight coverage and/or winning these battles. Won't even mention the number of drops there have been. Don't get me wrong Flacco is not totally blameless in this. He has made some mistakes and looked off on his timing on occasion but I think that has more to do with all the new faces more then anything else. The one positive I have gotten from his play is the fact that he has a 70+ (77% I think?) completion rating which is unbelievable considering the WR play.

True about the completion percentage, but it should be noted that he's basically only completed checkdowns, so his percentage should be high.

[ratedr]

I don't know, it's just hard for me to put most of the blame on the receivers when I see Tom Brady leading rookies to TDs like it's nothing.

Granted, Flacco is no Brady, but it's clear the FO (and me, really), expect him to make chicken salad out of chicken slop.

[caljoe2]

True about the completion percentage, but it should be noted that he's basically only completed checkdowns, so his percentage should be high.

Good point on the checkdowns. I might have to go back and see how many of the completions were just that. Your point does bring up another thing I failed to mention. Our offensive line hasn't been exactly stellar (So when does Yanda come back?).  Their pass protection has been spotty to say the least and their run blocking has been virtually nonexistent. So with poor pass blocking creating pressure and receivers not getting separation is it any wonder many of his passes have been dump offs to his safety valves? Kind of hard to fault him for taking the only option available in the limited amount of time available.

[caljoe2]

I don't know, it's just hard for me to put most of the blame on the receivers when I see Tom Brady leading rookies to TDs like it's nothing.

Granted, Flacco is no Brady, but it's clear the FO (and me, really), expect him to make chicken salad out of chicken slop.

I have been seeing this comparison quite often lately. Flacco and Brady and their ability to work with the backup receivers. I would like to point out that NE has a much better record on drafting and developing WR talent then the Ravens do which is/has been one of their biggest weaknesses they have had throughout the years. So trying to compare their #2's and #3's to ours is almost like trying to compare apples to oranges due to the separation in talent.

[arnie_uk]

I think they are forcing throws he wouldnt normally make to see how the receivers handle themselves in those tight situations. Flacco is careful he will check down in a game before throwing that pass against atl that was picked

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

I think they are forcing throws he wouldnt normally make to see how the receivers handle themselves in those tight situations. Flacco is careful he will check down in a game before throwing that pass against atl that was picked

also the guys he'splaying against know him better than any other defense, practising against each other every day does that...

agree with you he should be more relaxed at practice and force more throws, that's why it's called practice and he'll be more careful game time... he really doesn't like to give up a turnover, his face expression after the int from the broncos home game from last year speaks volumes

[Ravenseconbeast]

Its training camp. I dont think anyone really aims to be mistake free in practice. Theres so much passing going on in TC, its hard to 'count' TDs/INTs. All QBs usually do is (on passing drills) rotate receivers over and over and try to get a diff feel for what makes them comforable.

But i think for most part on 11/11 drills, the INT comes when neither sides see things eye to eye. And unlike most QBs, joe seems to never really talk about w/ the receivers to fix it when INT happens. I wish he does that more-- talk to the young guys after a miscue, but he just moves on and just get to another drill.

[PolishRifle]

True about the completion percentage, but it should be noted that he's basically only completed checkdowns, so his percentage should be high.

There were quite a few dropped passes as well, so I don't think you can just limit it to "just completing check downs". I also would argue, that those short passes and check downs will become crucial in the upcomming season as our RBs will have to make up for the loss of Boldin, imho.

 

The way I explain Flaccos performance as of late, is that Joe is testing the abilities of his receivers, after all he doesn't have much experience with them. Can they make certain contested catches, how does he have to place lob balls for them to make those, how good is their route running and what is the timing on them and so on. Those are the answers, that training camp and preseason has to yield for Joe to make the right decisions, when games matter and I do see prove of this in the fact, that Joe rarely targeted Torrey in preseason games and abstained from his speciality, the deep ball.

 

Joe usually averages around 10 INT a season and is quite good in the red zone, having long stretches when he didn't throw red zone INTs at all in his carreer. I'm sure once regular season kicks in, you will see fewer INTs.

[Stephenjr]

I don't know, it's just hard for me to put most of the blame on the receivers when I see Tom Brady leading rookies to TDs like it's nothing.

Granted, Flacco is no Brady, but it's clear the FO (and me, really), expect him to make chicken salad out of chicken slop.

Remember how Flacco tore up New England in the postseason? Ozzie chose to fix the D,Now the Dline is so darn good, Flacco probably has no time to go through his progresions which leads to picks. Point is,if Flacco was facing The Patriots D, he would be leading his receivers to Td's also! Ozzie should of left the Offense alone.If it ain't broke then don't fix it!! We should of just built the D through the draft,and let the offense alone, because Huff,Canty And,Spears are all short term answers.

[radicals]

Well if Flacco us having a lot of interceptions then isn't our defense doing good? (Trying to find something positive out of this)

But on a serious note I'm not too worried. I put my trust into Joe and hopefully into the WRs we have. It is only preseason (which I've said probably 600 times by now.) I think with the uncertainty of the WRs, it isn't helping Joe out. I am a little concerned considering that's not what we saw in the playoffs with him, but what we see at practice will be different from what we see in the games. As Suggs put it, don't confuse anyone's concern with Joe with panic.

[PolishRifle]

Remember how Flacco tore up New England in the postseason? Ozzie chose to fix the D,Now the Dline is so darn good, Flacco probably has no time to go through his progresions which leads to picks. Point is,if Flacco was facing The Patriots D, he would be leading his receivers to Td's also! Ozzie should of left the Offense alone.If it ain't broke then don't fix it!! We should of just built the D through the draft,and let the offense alone, because Huff,Canty And,Spears are all short term answers.

Lets not forget, that he is playing with a new Center, McKinnie is just getting into playing shape and Yanda was missing. Oline really act as units and taking out an All-Pro guard makes everyone play worse.

Remember how furious Rice was with Oher in the last game?

[K-Dog]

On the other hand, this is a good reason to be excited about our defense.

[ratedr]

On the other hand, this is a good reason to be excited about our defense.

This is true, but then I see Matt Ryan tear through it like it's nothing. Though to be fair, Flacco is practicing against Webb.

[redlobster]

I have been seeing this comparison quite often lately. Flacco and Brady and their ability to work with the backup receivers. I would like to point out that NE has a much better record on drafting and developing WR talent then the Ravens do which is/has been one of their biggest weaknesses they have had throughout the years. So trying to compare their #2's and #3's to ours is almost like trying to compare apples to oranges due to the separation in talent.

I'm going to strongly disagree with you , there actually was an article about NE's poor WR drafting and developing record on espn

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=7613327&city=boston&src=desktop

INDIANAPOLIS -- When it comes to selecting wide receivers in the NFL draft and then developing them into big-time contributors, the New England Patriots could use a comeback route.

[Free Agent]

Well he doesn't have Pitta, we traded away Boldin. Torrey is the WR he's most familiar with, and we've clearly seen the struggles of the young WRs challenging for the #2 job. Joe doesn't have it easy this season.

[izvoodoo]

This is true, but then I see Matt Ryan tear through it like it's nothing. Though to be fair, Flacco is practicing against Webb.

Guaranteed flacco isn't seeing cover 3 single high 5 plays in a row... he's probably seeing an actual defense.

[caljoe2]

I'm going to strongly disagree with you , there actually was an article about NE's poor WR drafting and developing record on espn

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=7613327&city=boston&src=desktop

INDIANAPOLIS -- When it comes to selecting wide receivers in the NFL draft and then developing them into big-time contributors, the New England Patriots could use a comeback route.

I stand corrected. :)

 

I wonder how the Ravens and their crappy record would compare in their assessment.

[Stephenjr]

Lets not forget, that he is playing with a new Center, McKinnie is just getting into playing shape and Yanda was missing. Oline really act as units and taking out an All-Pro guard makes everyone play worse.

Remember how furious Rice was with Oher in the last game?

Very true!! I just want to see what Mellette and Quan can do with the first team.Mellette will have some mistakes but that's how you learn. Mellette is the type of receiver that Flacco could build a very nice Rapore,oh,and would love to see Furstenburg run with the first team also. Furst reminds me of a faster Pitta!! What is your opinion?

[jimmypowder]

Very true!! I just want to see what Mellette and Quan can do with the first team.Mellette will have some mistakes but that's how you learn. Mellette is the type of receiver that Flacco could build a very nice Rapore,oh,and would love to see Furstenburg run with the first team also. Furst reminds me of a faster Pitta!! What is your opinion?

Fursteburg deserves to make this team and will be gone the minute we try to put him on the practice squad if thats

what we do.

 

I would rather keep him then Shanc and Bajema

 

Dickson,Clark,Furstenburg is how i see it.

[MTRavensFan]

Remember how Flacco tore up New England in the postseason? Ozzie chose to fix the D,Now the Dline is so darn good, Flacco probably has no time to go through his progresions which leads to picks. Point is,if Flacco was facing The Patriots D, he would be leading his receivers to Td's also! Ozzie should of left the Offense alone.If it ain't broke then don't fix it!! We should of just built the D through the draft,and let the offense alone, because Huff,Canty And,Spears are all short term answers.

Elam, Brown, Williams, Simon...

I think we just did that.

Agree with the rest, though.

[PolishRifle]

This is true, but then I see Matt Ryan tear through it like it's nothing. Though to be fair, Flacco is practicing against Webb.

Wake me up, when our Oline starts stonewalling people and Joe has two probowlers and a future HoFer to throw the ball to.

Atlanta will never be successfull, because their team is build solely around Ryan. It might be QB league, but just the passing game won't help you win the SB. If Rodgers and Brady can't do it, why should Ryan?

Yes, we are struggling at WR position, where we basically have just Torrey, but look at our defense and run game. That's the beauty of having a franchise QB, you don't have to give him elite weapons and he still can win you games (maybe not on the stat sheet, but certainly on the field). Ozzie knows that, that's why he traded Boldin. You think Oz doesn't know what Flacco is capable of?

[PolishRifle]

Very true!! I just want to see what Mellette and Quan can do with the first team.Mellette will have some mistakes but that's how you learn. Mellette is the type of receiver that Flacco could build a very nice Rapore,oh,and would love to see Furstenburg run with the first team also. Furst reminds me of a faster Pitta!! What is your opinion?

I like Mellette as well. Furstenburg is more athletic than Pitta, but I doubt he has that pass catching ability.

 

I think in future drafts the FO should concentrate on building up a solid Oline rather than trying to find star receivers. We are not nearly as good at picking WR as we are at picking Linemen. Give Joe enough time in the pocket and I don't think the quality of the receivers will be that much of an issue.

[Ravenslifer]

This is true, but then I see Matt Ryan tear through it like it's nothing. Though to be fair, Flacco is practicing against Webb.

 

Just to point out - Ryan went 8/15 for 97 yards and the TD.  Joe went 7/9 for 118, take out the TD play it's still 6/8 for 32 yards.  He was obviously completing most of the passes he was throwing, he just wasn't throwing deep passes, and there's no way I'm going to believe he suddenly lost that ability over one offseason.  And you absolutely cannot compare what Ryan has in Roddy White and Julio Jones to Torrey and Jacoby - Roddy took 3-4 years to become the player he is, and the Falcons sold an entire draft for Julio.  Torrey is finally starting to become a polished route runner, but he's far from a finished product like White - and our JJ is not and will never be their JJ.

[jimmypowder]

Everyone needs to take a chill pill on Flacco's performance thus far.

 

I'm sure he is targeting certain receivers for throws to see what they can do as opposed to who

might be really open. The coaches need to evaluate players not Joe who they know is very capable.

 

That's why there has been a lot of forced throws to Jacoby. The staff and Joe want to see if he

can make the jump to No. 2 .I think they realize now that its not looking promising much like it did

in Houston and the primary reason for his release.

[PolishRifle]

Just to point out - Ryan went 8/15 for 97 yards and the TD.  Joe went 7/9 for 118, take out the TD play it's still 6/8 for 32 yards.  He was obviously completing most of the passes he was throwing, he just wasn't throwing deep passes, and there's no way I'm going to believe he suddenly lost that ability over one offseason.  And you absolutely cannot compare what Ryan has in Roddy White and Julio Jones to Torrey and Jacoby - Roddy took 3-4 years to become the player he is, and the Falcons sold an entire draft for Julio.  Torrey is finally starting to become a polished route runner, but he's far from a finished product like White - and our JJ is not and will never be their JJ.

Joe's sudden rise in comp. % is great, but he wasn't convertin third downs well enough. I can't blame it all on Joe, because Shiancoe atleast is responsible for dropping one, if not two passes (you could argue that one of those was uncatchable though), but converting 3rd downs has been an Achilles heel of ours and I would love it, if we could start picking those up with short passes instead of just leaning on Rice for that.

[Ravenslifer]

Joe's sudden rise in comp. % is great, but he wasn't convertin third downs well enough. I can't blame it all on Joe, because Shiancoe atleast is responsible for dropping one, if not two passes (you could argue that one of those was uncatchable though), but converting 3rd downs has been an Achilles heel of ours and I would love it, if we could start picking those up with short passes instead of just leaning on Rice for that.

 

Well like I said he missed 2 passes on the day, so that doesn't automatically mean to me he suddenly isn't completing 3rd down conversions well enough.  I don't think 9 passes are enough to conclude anything.  Also, our 2 third-down guys last year were Boldin and Pitta, both not here.  I think they brought in Stoke and Clark to be those guys, but they really weren't ready to go yet, and Ed won't be ready to go until the regular season.  So again, with Joe being 7/9 while not having his complete o-line, all of the targets he will have this season, and running what was in my opinion a gameplan designed basically not to give anything away, I think it was a decent job.  It's just that there are certain posters out there (who I will not name) that won't accept anything less than 300 yards and 4 TDs, even though, as I keep trying to point out, Joe threw 9 passes the whole half of a preseason game and completed 7 of them.  If we include the first preseason game he's 14/18 I believe.  It's just crazy to me that if he doesn't have a Montana Superbowl-esq performance every single game, particularly in games that don't count at all, there are still posters here that continue to bash him.

 

Here is another point - nobody is talking about how Matt Ryan sucked it up against the Ravens - however he completed just one more pass than Joe despite throwing almost as many passes as Joe did in his first 2 games combined - Ryan went 7/15 for 97 yards and a TD - in fact his backup threw for more yards on fewer passing attempts.

[Stephenjr]

Fursteburg deserves to make this team and will be gone the minute we try to put him on the practice squad if thats

what we do.

 

I would rather keep him then Shanc and Bajema

 

Dickson,Clark,Furstenburg is how i see it.

Agreed!!!