SAM's Postgame Analyisis Preseason Thread #1

[gabefergy]

This is how I see it.  LaQuan is pretty much average in everything he does.  However, the guy comes to work everyday and plays hard.  He'll be primarily on ST, with a few offensive reps here and there.  He's a quality backup incase one of our other guys go down.  I do think he earned his spot last night, though.

Im not sure if one preseason game, especially week 1, earns anyone a spot. It certainly helps his case though. Remember last year when he was running with the first team in the preseason game against the Lions? All he did was drop the ball. I'm not saying he can't get better, but the physical ability has to be there as well as the effort. If he keeps playing like this I have to think he will make the team though. Mellette and Brown both impressed me as well, but Im not sure they offer the same ability on ST. That will be a deciding factor.

[izvoodoo]

Go back and watch Ngata during the Canty sack, he throws the centre to the ground and bulldozes the guard into Freeman and Canty.

 

Thats the Ngata we all know.

The only thing that worry's me is the 12 yard run.

 

Got to get that run d on blitz pressures better.

 

Brandon WIlliams also had a good game.  He drew double teams.

[rmw10]

Im not sure if one preseason game, especially week 1, earns anyone a spot. It certainly helps his case though. Remember last year when he was running with the first team in the preseason game against the Lions? All he did was drop the ball. I'm not saying he can't get better, but the physical ability has to be there as well as the effort. If he keeps playing like this I have to think he will make the team though. Mellette and Brown both impressed me as well, but Im not sure they offer the same ability on ST. That will be a deciding factor.

 

I just wasn't impressed with anyone behind him, really.  And I doubt that changes.  Reed is hurt again.  Streeter is lazy.  Mellette had a nice catch, but still struggles mightily in press coverage.  Brown really intrigues me, want to see more of him.

 

I don't think that Streeter and Mellette can improve enough to become a factor by week 1.  Who knows what's going on with Reed right now.

 

But like you said, his ticket is ST.  I think his ST play alone last night is what earned him a spot, not as much his play at WR (although I was impressed).  Obviously that has to continue.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

The only thing that worry's me is the 12 yard run.

Got to get that run d on blitz pressures better.

Brandon WIlliams also had a good game.  He drew double teams.

first preseason game, guys are still accommodating to each other, proper assessments can easily be missed... but as games are played on, the guys will gel better together

[MARYLANDMIKE21224]

Not happening

 

few more drops and it will happen

[MARYLANDMIKE21224]

Yup Ngata was dominant. So was Canty and Jones looked good too. That DL is going to be nassty.

 

the d line is the best we had in years, and could be the best ever. they are going to control games like we havent seen in a long time

[rmw10]

I'll give my rundown as well because I have nothing better to do today.

 

QB:

Flacco was average.  Poor pass on the interception, but I also think the offense was very vanilla for the first game.  Not enough time to make a full judgment.  Tyrod started kind of iffy but settled in very well and put up some really good numbers.  Hanie didn't see enough time, but did overthrow someone by a mile.

 

RB:

Rice didn't see much time, but had a nice grab over the middle.  Pierce looked great on the TD run, hope he's okay.  Berry started slowly but picked it up.  He still probably doesn't have too much of a shot.  As we know, Allen's value is on ST, but he wasn't terrible running the ball.  He was able to pick up 5+ yards consistently.  Rainey shined on ST, but was below average out of the backfield.

 

WR:

Torrey is Torrey, no worries.  Doss, Thompson, and Jones were all disappointing but it's too early to crown them failures.  LaQuan had a bang up game and is really pushing for some additional playing time.  Marlon Brown had a couple of drops but seemed to settle down and show great ability after the catch.  Streeter looked terrible, slow and lackluster in and out of routes.  Mellette had a very nice catch, but got stonewalled against press coverage.

 

TE:

Shiancoe is still rusty, but definitely had some very nice catches.  Furstenburg had a great catch down the seam, but was unheard of beyond that play.  Bajema did what he does best, blocking.  He looked pretty dominant in that aspect of the game.

 

OL:

No real complaints outside of McKinnie standing in the open.  Reid played with the 1's and did fairly well.  Wagner really held his own at LT, really excited about him.  Harewood quietly put together a great game with the 2's.  Unga was the surprise of the 2nd team, but didn't play very well.

 

DL:

Very dominant.  Ngata, Canty, and Jones all looked great.  Spears looked very good rotating all over the line.  Williams regularly got double teamed, very excited about him as well.  Tyson looked good.  Cody looked average.  I'd like to see him next week before I make a full judgment on him.  Pericak really stuggled and couldn't get pressure.  Larsen was silent.

 

OLB:

The Suggs, Upshaw, Dumervil rotation looks great so far.  McPhee saw a little bit of time and probably still needs to learn how to play in open space.  Simon has the non-stop motor that we keep hearing about.  Hamilton may really force our hand with how well he played.

 

ILB:

Smith was the MVP of the game.  Brown, Bynes, and McClellan all played sparingly with the 1st team, so we can't make too much of a judgment there.  Hall still has some work today, but he's a thumper against the run.  Carr played well, but man is he going to be a penalty machine if he makes the team.  Copeland came away with the INT and is a prime candidate for the PS.

 

CB:

Smith did very well against Jackson for the most part.  Graham had a blown coverage, but I'm not worried about him at all.  Chykie struggled mightily but I'll reserve judgment once again.  Asa played very, very well.  Anthony was beaten consistently but also showed some signs.  Lee had a great INT, but made a boneheaded play with the lateral.

 

S:

Huff and Ihedigbo were pretty quiet, which isn't a bad thing.  Elam is a hard-hitter that Baltimore will grow to love.  Levine put up a great night both on ST and at S.  He's one to keep an eye on if Omar falters.  Trawick of course had the blocked punt, although he just happened to be the first one there.  It looked like 4 or 5 other guys could have made the block had Trawick not.

 

ST:

No complaints about the wolfpack.  Tucker's awesome.

[beanfigger]

I'll give my rundown as well because I have nothing better to do today.

 

RB:

Rice didn't see much time, but had a nice grab over the middle.  Pierce looked great on the TD run, hope he's okay.  Berry started slowly but picked it up.  He still probably doesn't have too much of a shot.  As we know, Allen's value is on ST, but he wasn't terrible running the ball.  He was able to pick up 5+ yards consistently.  Rainey shined on ST, but was below average out of the backfield.

 

 

I like the analysis.  Any thoughts on the FBs?  I missed parts of the game when my computer was freezing up.

[poescrows]

For what its worth, here's some numbers from our #1's vs their #1's:

Freeman: in 2 possesions went 4/7 @ 34 yrds.

RB's: (Martin + Leonard) 16 yrds on 5 attempts.

D: 1 sack for -10 yrds, 1 int.

Team: 5 yrds in penalties.

 

Flacco: in 2 possesions went 7/9 @ 57 yrds. with 1 int.

RB's: (Rice + Pierce) 10 yrds on 5 attempts.

D: 1 sack for -8 yrds .

Team: 11 yrds in penelties.

 

Ravens: 0 - Tampa: 3

[rmw10]

I like the analysis.  Any thoughts on the FBs?  I missed parts of the game when my computer was freezing up.

 

I knew I forgot something.  Leach was typical Leach.  I think he'll get a lot more receptions this year.  Juice was alright.  He looked good catching the ball, but looked pretty bad as a lead blocker.

[ravensfan2430]

Teams aren't going to release reliable #2's.  If they're reliable #2's, they're going to be that for the team they're already on.  As you said, a trade is highly unlikely due to our cap situation.  The Lloyd topic has been beaten to death around here, and it's been discussed so many times why he's not a fit.

 

There's just no one out there that is going to fill this "need" as everyone says.  In fact, I doubt there's even much out there that's any better than what we already have.

Well, everyone thought Lee Evans was going to be our #2, so yes, I think it could happen.

[rmw10]

Well, everyone thought Lee Evans was going to be our #2, so yes, I think it could happen.

 

We don't have the money to make a move like that this year.  We're tight against the cap and we need some room just in case we need to make a move midseason.

[ravensfan2430]

We don't have the money to make a move like that this year.  We're tight against the cap and we need some room just in case we need to make a move midseason.

We have 4 mil... I think we'd have enough to get someone who was cut, but we can't predict the future.  Can't wait to see.

[hawkprey]

I'm going to give the receiving group a small pass on this one. They all dropped passes and I'm sure the ball being wet didn't help. Tampa Bay had a few drops/double clutches as well. It probably wasn't very easy to catch the intermediate bullet-thrown passes they were all tested with. And Tampa's corners were playing pretty aggressively (again, preseason is the "something to prove" bowl). 

 

At least the starters didn't play as badly as they did in the opener against Atlanta last year.

[rmw10]

We have 4 mil... I think we'd have enough to get someone who was cut, but we can't predict the future.  Can't wait to see.

 

$4.4M with the rule of 51.  Once the regular season hits, we accrue approximately ~$800K for players 52 and 53, ~$800K for practice squad players, and who knows how much in IR guys right now.  We'd be somewhere around $2M, which isn't enough to operate a season.  We need to have reserve to make moves in case on injury.  The only way I could see us getting another WR is if they come for the vet minimum.  You won't get a legit #2 for the minimum.

[gabefergy]

We have 4 mil... I think we'd have enough to get someone who was cut, but we can't predict the future.  Can't wait to see.

If someone gets cut, are they really going to be any kind of upgrade to what we currently have? The only player I could see filling this hypothetical is Nate Washington. He makes a lot of money and could be a cap casualty considering the young talent the Titans have at WR. Actually cap casualty probably isnt the right term as they dont need the space, but it would save the owner about 4M and would pave the way for younger players.

[SecretAgentMan]

Ozzie knows what he's doing.
Let the guy be

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

I'll give it two more games until I start panicking about WR :D

[poescrows]

I agree its not, I feel that we payed joe 120 million to be able to make these guys better.  Im just saying Doss isn't the answer and Streeter deff isn't the answer.

Actually, Joe will NEVER see 120 mil. He gets less than 7 mil this season, I belive in the teens season 2, and you can bet his contract will get restructured in year 3.

[poescrows]

$4.4M with the rule of 51.  Once the regular season hits, we accrue approximately ~$800K for players 52 and 53, ~$800K for practice squad players, and who knows how much in IR guys right now.  We'd be somewhere around $2M, which isn't enough to operate a season.  We need to have reserve to make moves in case on injury.  The only way I could see us getting another WR is if they come for the vet minimum.  You won't get a legit #2 for the minimum.

If they relaise McClain with a failed physical tag, they pick up another 3mil....................

[gabefergy]

Actually, Joe will NEVER see 120 mil. He gets less than 7 mil this season, I belive in the teens season 2, and you can bet his contract will get restructured in year 3.

Restructuring doesn't mean he won't see the Money. It just means base salary gets converted to bonus and he probably ends up getting getting extended and making even more.

[rmw10]

If they relaise McClain with a failed physical tag, they pick up another 3mil....................

 

That's an if.  It's possible, but there's no way of knowing that's going to happen right now.  Then, it becomes plausible.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

That's an if.  It's possible, but there's no way of knowing that's going to happen right now.  Then, it becomes plausible.

with how the inside LBs looked last night, it is quite a high possibility for McClain to be cut or his contract drastically restructured; this doesn't mean we're then going for a WR though

[rmw10]

with how the inside LBs looked last night, it is quite a high possibility for McClain to be cut or his contract drastically restructured; this doesn't mean we're then going for a WR though

I'd cut him without a doubt. It's all whether the team wants to, and they really like him for whatever reason.

[sflegend89]

Let's not compare Boldin to Laquan lol. Its night and day. Williams has been a good ST, but he just doesn't possess the skills that Doss has IMO. Laquan is fast in a straight line, but his route running, especially hua footwork, needs a lot of work. Maybe he has more "want to" but I don't really see that and its not something I can look at and quantify. If Laquan makes the team it will be in ST, I doubt he will see many significant reps on offense.

 

I wasn't comparing them skills wise. I was just saying that your one knock on LaQuan is that he isn't quick and fluid but Boldin was an excellent slot receiver despite not being quick or fluid. Speed is a lot more of a concern with wr's working on the outside who need to get separation vertically. Very different skill set required when going over the middle and working the underneath stuff from the slot. I'm just liking Doss less and less very time I see him play, he's not aggressive enough. Let's the ball come to him instead of locating and attacking the ball in mid air. If we go into the regular season with Doss and Jacoby as the #2 and #3 WR we're in trouble on offense, like another poster already remarked.. Doss just doesn't have "it". Jacoby is a serviceable #3 but we are expecting too much out of him to be a consistent #2, coaches need a reality check on Joe's targets right now. That's a lot of money to invest in Flacco only to give him significantly worse talent to throw the ball to this year. No Boldin and Pitta this year and we don't get a PROVEN replacement, everyone gonna put it on Joe when his wr's don't get it down outside of Torrey.

 

I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with the wr's/te's.. Juice starting to look like horrible value in the 4th round.. could've brought in a quality wr instead of a FB who can't lead block, hindsight is 20/20 but as good as our first 3 pick were, I already feel like this guy is a dud who's in over his head athletically in the NFL. Should've just stuck with Leach from day 1 and actually drafted some skill players on offense like the Pats did (Dobson, Sudsy). We go way too defensive in the draft, miss out on the FA's wr's when they were still available, now it's almost too little too late to try to get our hands on a quality wr's at this point. We got a real mess right now and I'm not sure ANY of them can play like a #2 wr this year. Ozzie managed the defense to perfection this offseason, we dropped the ball making sure Joe has enough weapons on offense after that contract though. Frustrating.

[omar586]

Thoughts on most positions
QB- solid
WR- the most unstable position, after TS its a toss up, doss & reed r fragile & useless during live games, laquan, mellete & Marlon r solid w/ more snaps, JJ will b fine after knocking rust off
TE the emergence of Furstenberg, juice, & addition of shinko will solidify the position. Furstenberg & juice will surprise people n passing game.
OL this might b the deepest position.
RB- Deep position, would love to keep rainy, AA might b cut.
DL- looked unstoppable & deep
CB- Solid
S solid & deep
LB WITH Smith, Brown, bynes this could b a very solid group

[5aiah]

I wasn't comparing them skills wise. I was just saying that your one knock on LaQuan is that he isn't quick and fluid but Boldin was an excellent slot receiver despite not being quick or fluid. Speed is a lot more of a concern with wr's working on the outside who need to get separation vertically. Very different skill set required when going over the middle and working the underneath stuff from the slot. I'm just liking Doss less and less very time I see him play, he's not aggressive enough. Let's the ball come to him instead of locating and attacking the ball in mid air. If we go into the regular season with Doss and Jacoby as the #2 and #3 WR we're in trouble on offense, like another poster already remarked.. Doss just doesn't have "it". Jacoby is a serviceable #3 but we are expecting too much out of him to be a consistent #2, coaches need a reality check on Joe's targets right now. That's a lot of money to invest in Flacco only to give him significantly worse talent to throw the ball to this year. No Boldin and Pitta this year and we don't get a PROVEN replacement, everyone gonna put it on Joe when his wr's don't get it down outside of Torrey.

 

I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with the wr's/te's.. Juice starting to look like horrible value in the 4th round.. could've brought in a quality wr instead of a FB who can't lead block, hindsight is 20/20 but as good as our first 3 pick were, I already feel like this guy is a dud who's in over his head athletically in the NFL. Should've just stuck with Leach from day 1 and actually drafted some skill players on offense like the Pats did (Dobson, Sudsy). We go way too defensive in the draft, miss out on the FA's wr's when they were still available, now it's almost too little too late to try to get our hands on a quality wr's at this point. We got a real mess right now and I'm not sure ANY of them can play like a #2 wr this year. Ozzie managed the defense to perfection this offseason, we dropped the ball making sure Joe has enough weapons on offense after that contract though. Frustrating.

You and me seem to agree on a lot. But hold off on Juice bro. He was never truly meant to be the starting lead blocker anyway. He needs time to get that part of his game down(now he gets to learn from the master). That pick was more long term. I know people will say "we didn't know leach would be back" but im telling you we defintely did. His type will never get the money he was looking for ever again. We knew he would be coming back at a reduced price. When we cut him im like"hope he doesn't feel to bad when he has to come back to us for less money after getting rejected". That being said taking Kapron and John Simon as projects over a offensive WR project is frustrating. That being said we actually have one in Aaron Mellette. This is a guy whose game should be and could be similar to Boldin if he gets a lot stronger and tougher. We were able to get our WR project in the last round and he could actually end up seeing quite some time because he is durable. 

[omar586]

Reed & doss r soft , r not aggressive, they seem to b scared of getting hit

[The Raven]

I knew I forgot something.  Leach was typical Leach.  I think he'll get a lot more receptions this year.  Juice was alright.  He looked good catching the ball, but looked pretty bad as a lead blocker.

 

Juice was up and down. He had a lot of good blocks, and a lot of terrible blocks. I looked at a few of his screw ups, and it looked like it was a matter of bad technique more than being physically outmatched. When he had the proper leverage, hit with the right shoulder, and was in the right position, he did well. 

 

I remember there was one specific play that was an off tackle run. We were running against a 4-3 over, with the LOLB on the LOS. The front side of the line blocked down, and Juice had to kick out the LOLB. Instead of blocking with his right shoulder like he should have, he used his left. I almost vomited. Peewee mistake.

[gabefergy]

I wasn't comparing them skills wise. I was just saying that your one knock on LaQuan is that he isn't quick and fluid but Boldin was an excellent slot receiver despite not being quick or fluid. Speed is a lot more of a concern with wr's working on the outside who need to get separation vertically. Very different skill set required when going over the middle and working the underneath stuff from the slot. I'm just liking Doss less and less very time I see him play, he's not aggressive enough. Let's the ball come to him instead of locating and attacking the ball in mid air. If we go into the regular season with Doss and Jacoby as the #2 and #3 WR we're in trouble on offense, like another poster already remarked.. Doss just doesn't have "it". Jacoby is a serviceable #3 but we are expecting too much out of him to be a consistent #2, coaches need a reality check on Joe's targets right now. That's a lot of money to invest in Flacco only to give him significantly worse talent to throw the ball to this year. No Boldin and Pitta this year and we don't get a PROVEN replacement, everyone gonna put it on Joe when his wr's don't get it down outside of Torrey.

 

I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with the wr's/te's.. Juice starting to look like horrible value in the 4th round.. could've brought in a quality wr instead of a FB who can't lead block, hindsight is 20/20 but as good as our first 3 pick were, I already feel like this guy is a dud who's in over his head athletically in the NFL. Should've just stuck with Leach from day 1 and actually drafted some skill players on offense like the Pats did (Dobson, Sudsy). We go way too defensive in the draft, miss out on the FA's wr's when they were still available, now it's almost too little too late to try to get our hands on a quality wr's at this point. We got a real mess right now and I'm not sure ANY of them can play like a #2 wr this year. Ozzie managed the defense to perfection this offseason, we dropped the ball making sure Joe has enough weapons on offense after that contract though. Frustrating.

To your first point. Not having speed is not the only problem with LaQuan. He hasnt really done anything well in his limited opportunities, and he doesnt have elite measurables or potential for him to be more than a bottom of depth chart type of player. I'm going to disagree about Doss, but there is really no point in arguing that point. I think he can be a very nice slot receiver for us who could grow into a #2.

 

I don't want to sound to preachy, but it's not the Ravens job to make you feel "comfortable" with the WR situation, especially after 1 pre-season game.I'm sorry, but criticizing the value of a 4th round pick is a joke. He's a dud after 2 weeks of TC and 1 preseason game? No. None of us know how good or bad the offense will be at this point, but what you are saying is just typical unfounded doom and gloom reaction to a meaningless preseason game. I would think most people would know better by now, but I guess not.