Ravens defense vs. Browns defense

[blackbird29]

I am really looking forward to seeing the new look defense this yr. I think we have upgraded alot and will be better. It may take a few games to really jell but I see promise in what we have. I saw an article where Paul Kruger said that the Browns defense is and will be just as good as his former team's. Not sure if this is already out here anywhere. I looked and didnt see but I thought to myself, that is a pretty big statement even with all the losses the Ravens had on defense in the offseason.

[SecretAgentMan]

Um....

Dumervil= better than any lb they have and he's not even their best LB

Ngata better than any of their dlinemen.

Joe Haden is just as good as Webb

Ward>Elam

Jackson is better than our ilbs for now...
Smith if he returns to form is better imo

Were better, but they have a good defense. I'll do a side by side comparison later

[blackbird29]

I believe that the Browns do have some weapons on defense. Haden is at the top of the list. I am interested to see how they do with all the new management and coaching they have.

[beanfigger]

I think we'll have more sacks and forced tournovers than the Browns. They might be with us in terms of being tough to move and score on, though. It is a tough defense in Cleveland, for sure. They will be tested and worked harder than us, however, because I believe our offense has a leg up and will move the ball/work the clock better than theirs.

[Gordo52]

Browns defense is no joke. As much as I hate their fans and dislike the city, I'm pretty excited to see what they do on D.

In skeptical about our defense. I think on paper it's got the potential to be #1, I just gotta see it first. I think we struggle early due to lack of chemistry but around week 6 tighten it up and become one of the top units. Jimmy Smith is key.

[harfordravenfan]

While the browns are assembling a good defense, all the coaching changes will test them early and I questions there depth/rotation. Kruger made a pretty bold statement even if comparing last years defense which was subpar for what we're used to

[gabefergy]

The Browns have a few very good players on D, but overall, I would take the depth and talent of the Ravens at every position group. They also have a very good Def Coordinator now so he could elevate their level of play a bit. In short, they are getting better but still have a ways to go before they are on par with the Ravens. Maybe the Ravens of last year that Paul was referring to, but not this revamped unit.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Ugh...never thought we'd see the day when Ravens have to compete w/ browns to see who has better D.

[Cville-Raven]

Um....

Dumervil= better than any lb they have and he's not even their best LB

Ngata better than any of their dlinemen.

Joe Haden is just as good as Webb

Ward>Elam

Jackson is better than our ilbs for now...
Smith if he returns to form is better imo

Were better, but they have a good defense. I'll do a side by side comparison later

Me, being the homer that I am,  think Elam>Ward

[SecretAgentMan]

Me, being the homer that I am,  think Elam>Ward

Ward might be the best SS in the NFL, but that's just my opinion

[Cville-Raven]

Elam might be the best SS in the NFL, but that's just my opinion

Fixed it  ;)

[5aiah]

The Browns defense will be tenacious, hungry, extremely talented and well coached. Make no mistake they could be a top 10 defense just like we could. I have never seen a whole division make the top 10 but if there was one year where it was possible, it is this year. Haden is the best outside cover CB in the AFC period. Webby is at his best in the slot and playing like an extra linebacker/safety. His run stopping ability is what also makes him great, but just in terms of being objective and looking at cover skills, Haden is the best overall, just not for the Ravens. Ward is the best SS in the AFC. That side is really shut down when those two are healthy, but that bring us to their big flaw. On the other side of the field they are quite vulnerable as well as having less than stellar inside linebackers. Their key will be the line play and how quickly they get to the QB and I think they have enough to do that well. That being said just too many weak spots in their defense to truly be on our level.

[SecretAgentMan]

Fixed it  ;)

At the end of the year maybe... I think he's that good.

 

But as of right now it's Ward in my eyes

[gabefergy]

The Browns defense will be tenacious, hungry, extremely talented and well coached. Make no mistake they could be a top 10 defense just like we could. I have never seen a whole division make the top 10 but if there was one year where it was possible, it is this year. Haden is the best outside cover CB in the AFC period. Webby is at his best in the slot and playing like an extra linebacker/safety. His run stopping ability is what also makes him great, but just in terms of being objective and looking at cover skills, Haden is the best overall, just not for the Ravens. Ward is the best SS in the AFC. That side is really shut down when those two are healthy, but that bring us to their big flaw. On the other side of the field they are quite vulnerable as well as having less than stellar inside linebackers. Their key will be the line play and how quickly they get to the QB and I think they have enough to do that well. That being said just too many weak spots in their defense to truly be on our level.

Better CBs than Haden: Cromartie, Flowers, Bailey, Harris.

Better SS than Ward: Reshad Jones, Polamalu if healthy.

[PurpleReign92]

Browns got better we got our High hat on don't forget who got a ring last year..... They compare against us we don't compare against them... 

[5aiah]

Better CBs than Haden: Cromartie, Flowers, Bailey, Harris.

Better SS than Ward: Reshad Jones, Polamalu if healthy.

Reshad Jones is underrated but he isn't better than Ward and durability is a big part of a player(Polamalu) so saying if he is healthy he is better means little. When the conversation for best Cornerback in the league starts you usually hear Sherman and not Revis because it isn't about if's, but what they did and what you know they can do. You don't know exactly what Polamalu can do anymore. Also Polamalu is aging and on his way down while Ward is on his way up. Ward has had his share of injuries as well though. 

 

Cornerbacks Flowers is very consistent but he isn't better than Haden, nor is Champ anymore. I love what Harris can do in the slot as well as outside so he can stay in the argument. In terms of pure covering skills like I said, Cromartie I cannot put ahead of Haden, he is a big time playmaker with great cover skills but he isn't lights out as Haden can be. Its more that he scares the crap out of QBs from throwing his way because if he picks it off its likely to go back for a TD. People won't even throw at Haden. Lastly you have to look at the help a CB gets while doing his job which I think you neglected. Chris Harris and Champ we all know benefit greatly from that amazing pass rush in denver. Cro and Flowers had less pass rush then those two for sure but they just aren't Haden when it comes to pure cover ability.   

[easternshore97]

I am really looking forward to seeing the new look defense this yr. I think we have upgraded alot and will be better. It may take a few games to really jell but I see promise in what we have. I saw an article where Paul Kruger said that the Browns defense is and will be just as good as his former team's. Not sure if this is already out here anywhere. I looked and didnt see but I thought to myself, that is a pretty big statement even with all the losses the Ravens had on defense in the offseason.

I think even though Taylor and Bryant are clogging up the middle, with D'Qwell in the middle and Haden and Gipson and Ward in the back, you took his statements out of context.

 

He was comparing the team to LAST YEAR's defense.  They are probably more on par with last year's defense.

[ravensdan]

The browns will once again struggle to stop the run. Bryant will help in the middle but none of their linebackers are great at stopping the run. Teams should run 70% of the time at this team.

[scrock]

idk..i remember Ward getting beat a lot...i think he had one year when he was real good then his play dropped off...but i could be wrong

 

besides Elam hasn't even played yet so who knows how good he can be

 

and might i add why does it matter, its the BROWNS..

[gabefergy]

Reshad Jones is underrated but he isn't better than Ward and durability is a big part of a player(Polamalu) so saying if he is healthy he is better means little. When the conversation for best Cornerback in the league starts you usually hear Sherman and not Revis because it isn't about if's, but what they did and what you know they can do. You don't know exactly what Polamalu can do anymore. Also Polamalu is aging and on his way down while Ward is on his way up. Ward has had his share of injuries as well though.

Cornerbacks Flowers is very consistent but he isn't better than Haden, nor is Champ anymore. I love what Harris can do in the slot as well as outside so he can stay in the argument. In terms of pure covering skills like I said, Cromartie I cannot put ahead of Haden, he is a big time playmaker with great cover skills but he isn't lights out as Haden can be. Its more that he scares the crap out of QBs from throwing his way because if he picks it off its likely to go back for a TD. People won't even throw at Haden. Lastly you have to look at the help a CB gets while doing his job which I think you neglected. Chris Harris and Champ we all know benefit greatly from that amazing pass rush in denver. Cro and Flowers had less pass rush then those two for sure but they just aren't Haden when it comes to pure cover ability.

Haden is also inconsistent. He let up 6 TDs last year and allowed close to 60% of passes thrown at him completed. That isn't even close to the best CBs in the league. Sure he has talent but he is yet to put it all together consistently. He's probably in the mix for top 5 in the AFC, anything better is just an opinion that is rooted outside of his actual performance.

Also Reshad Jones is better than Ward. He is better in coverage and just as much of a playmaker.

[arnie_uk]

Jones is probably top 3 safety in the league

[The Raven]

Browns defense is underrated, and I think they might compare to us this season.

 

My reasoning? Our defense was sorry last year, and we're still sorry until we prove otherwise. Hopefully, we get back to good defense

[5aiah]

Haden is also inconsistent. He let up 6 TDs last year and allowed close to 60% of passes thrown at him completed. That isn't even close to the best CBs in the league. Sure he has talent but he is yet to put it all together consistently. He's probably in the mix for top 5 in the AFC, anything better is just an opinion that is rooted outside of his actual performance.

Also Reshad Jones is better than Ward. He is better in coverage and just as much of a playmaker.

As a strong safety(even in the passing league it is today) Ward is just much more of a force and playmaker. Thats not even funny what he does as as in the box safety. We agree to disagree there. As for Haden being incosnsistent, so is Cro and he isn't even as good cover wise. We agree that Haden is top 5 in the AFC so thats cool, its just that I give him the nod seeing as he has the harder job as a CB(last year) than the others, and the only other guy asked to do more is Champ(who won't be as good this season).

[gabefergy]

As a strong safety(even in the passing league it is today) Ward is just much more of a force and playmaker. Thats not even funny what he does as as in the box safety. We agree to disagree there. As for Haden being incosnsistent, so is Cro and he isn't even as good cover wise. We agree that Haden is top 5 in the AFC so thats cool, its just that I give him the nod seeing as he has the harder job as a CB(last year) than the others, and the only other guy asked to do more is Champ(who won't be as good this season).

Well you obviously dont watch many Dolphins games, or you would know that Reshad Jones is a spectacular playmaker both in the box and in coverage. It's why he is a better safety than TJ Ward. I dont know how you can say that Cro isnt as good as Haden. He was definitely a better CB last season by any metric you choose to look at. They have both been inconsistent throughout their careers so you dont really have an argument there. Being "asked to do more" just sounds like an excuse for you not being willing to admit being wrong, so we will just end it at that. The Browns certainly have some nice players and they should have a formidable defense, but they are not hands down the best in the AFC at any position.

[jdynamite]

Fixed it ;)

Lol. I really got a good laugh when I saw those

[5aiah]

Well you obviously dont watch many Dolphins games, or you would know that Reshad Jones is a spectacular playmaker both in the box and in coverage. It's why he is a better safety than TJ Ward. I dont know how you can say that Cro isnt as good as Haden. He was definitely a better CB last season by any metric you choose to look at. They have both been inconsistent throughout their careers so you dont really have an argument there. Being "asked to do more" just sounds like an excuse for you not being willing to admit being wrong, so we will just end it at that. The Browns certainly have some nice players and they should have a formidable defense, but they are not hands down the best in the AFC at any position.

Being "asked to do more" as a cornerback is just what the best have to do sometimes when they have little help up front. No one can cover their man forever. Some are asked to do it longer with less help from the front 7 getting to their man. The Browns pass rush was just bad and Haden had to deal with that. Champ and Chris Harris Jr had great years but they have a lot more help in terms of pass rush. This is a painfully basic concept, and what a CB is being asked to do(and the help they have) should always factor in to where they are ranked. That is why Webby is ranked high in my book,because he is asked to play slot often as well and make consistent stops in the run game. Before entering in a discussion about CBs people definitely need to know how the position works. They all don't have the same jobs because they play in different systems. As for your last sentence, its a really awful strawman bro. No one ever said the Browns were the best in the AFC at anything. Just that Haden(one CB not 2) can be considered the best in the AFC and others mentioned Ward. I even mentioned in my earlier posts that the other side of the defense didn't match up and that was cause for concern. Read the thread bro. 

[gabefergy]

The Browns defense will be tenacious, hungry, extremely talented and well coached. Make no mistake they could be a top 10 defense just like we could. I have never seen a whole division make the top 10 but if there was one year where it was possible, it is this year. Haden is the best outside cover CB in the AFC period. Webby is at his best in the slot and playing like an extra linebacker/safety. His run stopping ability is what also makes him great, but just in terms of being objective and looking at cover skills, Haden is the best overall, just not for the Ravens. Ward is the best SS in the AFC. That side is really shut down when those two are healthy, but that bring us to their big flaw. On the other side of the field they are quite vulnerable as well as having less than stellar inside linebackers. Their key will be the line play and how quickly they get to the QB and I think they have enough to do that well. That being said just too many weak spots in their defense to truly be on our level.

 

 

Being "asked to do more" as a cornerback is just what the best have to do sometimes when they have little help up front. No one can cover their man forever. Some are asked to do it longer with less help from the front 7 getting to their man. The Browns pass rush was just bad and Haden had to deal with that. Champ and Chris Harris Jr had great years but they have a lot more help in terms of pass rush. This is a painfully basic concept, and what a CB is being asked to do(and the help they have) should always factor in to where they are ranked. That is why Webby is ranked high in my book,because he is asked to play slot often as well and make consistent stops in the run game. Before entering in a discussion about CBs people definitely need to know how the position works. They all don't have the same jobs because they play in different systems. As for your last sentence, its a really awful strawman bro. No one ever said the Browns were the best in the AFC at anything. Just that Haden(one CB not 2) can be considered the best in the AFC and others mentioned Ward. I even mentioned in my earlier posts that the other side of the defense didn't match up and that was cause for concern. Read the thread bro. 

 

This is hilarious. You accuse me of not reading the thread, when you claimed specifically that Haden was the best outside cover corner in the AFC period, and that TJ Ward was the best SS in the AFC. Those are exact quotes and now you are trying to deny that? LOL, you really cant admit to being wrong.

 

I'll agree that some corners are asked to do more than others. Each team has different schemes and having a good pass-rush certainly helps out. Cromartie really was exceptional last year and the NYJ werent exactly a top pass-rushing unit. He basically took over for Revis after he got hurt locking down the best WR on the other team. I'm not sure how much more you can ask of a CB.

[5aiah]

This is hilarious. You accuse me of not reading the thread, when you claimed specifically that Haden was the best outside cover corner in the AFC period, and that TJ Ward was the best SS in the AFC. Those are exact quotes and now you are trying to deny that? LOL, you really cant admit to being wrong.

 

I'll agree that some corners are asked to do more than others. Each team has different schemes and having a good pass-rush certainly helps out. Cromartie really was exceptional last year and the NYJ werent exactly a top pass-rushing unit. He basically took over for Revis after he got hurt locking down the best WR on the other team. I'm not sure how much more you can ask of a CB.

You made it sound like I was saying the Browns were the best at certain positions like safety and corner when i was only making the point that they have one great one at each. Also do you not understand my point of specifying outside cover corner and then going into detail about what Webby brings and how it is different? How Haden is the best outside cover corner but wouldn't be the best corner for the Ravens? Like I said agree to disagree, you are the one that has to be right. Best outside cover corner isn't the same as Browns being the best at the cornerback position. That's the strawman you are attacking. 

[gabefergy]

You made it sound like I was saying the Browns were the best at certain positions like safety and corner when i was only making the point that they have one great one at each. Also do you not understand my point of specifying outside cover corner and then going into detail about what Webby brings and how it is different? How Haden is the best outside cover corner but wouldn't be the best corner for the Ravens? Like I said agree to disagree, you are the one that has to be right. Best outside cover corner isn't the same as Browns being the best at the cornerback position. That's the strawman you are attacking.

This keeps getting better and better. I understand the difference between outside and slot perfectly fine. Not once did I even mention Webb so I'm not sure why you are bringing him into this. Webb plays outside in base defense and slot in nickel packages. He excels at both which makes him one if the top corners in the game as slot is actually a harder position to play. Some corners just aren't suited for it. Anyways I'm going to stop now. You can keep making things up if you like.

[5aiah]

This keeps getting better and better. I understand the difference between outside and slot perfectly fine. Not once did I even mention Webb so I'm not sure why you are bringing him into this. Webb plays outside in base defense and slot in nickel packages. He excels at both which makes him one if the top corners in the game as slot is actually a harder position to play. Some corners just aren't suited for it. Anyways I'm going to stop now. You can keep making things up if you like.

I mentioned Webb as a way of differentiating between what he does(a run stopper as well) and what a pure cover guy like Haden does, you missed the point. You talk of making things up, but attack straw men in an attempt to be right, when I already agreed that we disagree and really can't go further without going far off topic.