Is Speed The Only Thing That Matters?

[5aiah]

Don't know how you got negged, because you couldn't be more right. Top speed is crap in this league. Top speed is for track stars. I care about how fast you can run 10-20  yards, and how fast you can change direction. That's what matters.

Streeter is learning that right now. He might have to continue learning in free agency or with another team, sad to say.

[flaccopoe]

One needs not just speed, but agility and leaping ability.  When a safety is on you like hot cakes, you have to be able to get around him or catch the ball over him.

[mgridda]

I'd like it if naturally, and not deliberately or anything, Torrey got about 12 targets a game. Torrey has it all. Now with Anquan gone, we'll see Torrey getting a lot more targets, and with another year of him practicing (and his great work ethic), Torrey will improve.

The thing about Tandon Doss and Jacoby Jones is...Jacoby is bigger than Tandon Doss (they're both 6'2, but Doss is about 6'2 205 and Jacoby is about 6'2, 215) and yet Jacoby is also faster, more experienced. Jacoby probably is a better route runner.

If Doss wants to win, he has to improve his focus and actually be "the best hands on the team"...and consistently. Not just making beautiful one handed grabs here and there.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

the problem with torrey is he has a great game and then goes missing for a couple. We can't afford that. Jacoby Jones is NOT a legit number 2. Sorry no one here will ever convince me. Tandon Doss has shown me nothing in 2 years. Deonte thompson is a complete wildcard. Ed Dickson is coming off a forgettable season and now has an injury to the hamstring which can linger.

 

Boldin and Pitta were what made me confident in the outfield. I'd be like 3rd down...boldin or pitta.  Best catchers we had.

 

Our team isn't perfect. Ive never been bias. I don't think flacco has enough weapons this year.

 

 

Ummmm.... Torrey would have a good game and then disappear, yet Boldin was the one that made you confident? Isnt great game then disappear what Boldin did consistently? I'm not knocking Boldin, loved him as a player and definitely miss him, but you're knocking Torrey for the same things that Boldin was during his time here while finding a way to praise him.

 

and check the stats, Pitta would also disappear for games. Its been the Ravens only real problem - lack of a consistent passing game.

[scrock]

no way, speed isnt even necessary

 

great route running, knowledge of the offense and the defense being run against you and where and how to exploit its weaknesses, reliable hands, ability to locate the ball and catch it....all those things are more important than speed to me

 

Boldin and Mason weren't the fastest guys but they did all those other things so well....

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

no way, speed isnt even necessary

 

great route running, knowledge of the offense and the defense being run against you and where and how to exploit its weaknesses, reliable hands, ability to locate the ball and catch it....all those things are more important than speed to me

 

Boldin and Mason weren't the fastest guys but they did all those other things so well....

 

 

Agreed.

 

Don't know that I even understand the point of this thread. Is speed necessary? Yes and no.

 

Is it necessary in Torrey's game? Yes. Was it necessary in Boldin's? No.

 

There are as many reasons that a receiver can be great as there are qualities that make up a receivers skill set. Some are great bc of strong hands and body control. Some are great bc of route running and intelligence. Some are great bc of speed.

 

Every great player is great for different reasons. Theres no science to it. If there were, no one would become draft busts.... there would be no late round or undrafted gems. Does speed kill? It can... but it can also be killed.

 

So your answer is uhhhh, Yes? No?.... ok maybe?

[billick]

Route running is a very important skill, but VS. a zone ya kinda stand around, hopefully away from

 

 Jacoby Jones is NOT a legit number 2.

 

 That's why Houston let him go. Torrey is not yet a proven # 1. That's why I suggested we draft some pass catchers.

 

But, what do I know ?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Route running is a very important skill, but VS. a zone ya kinda stand around, hopefully away from


That's why Houston let him go. Torrey is not yet a proven # 1. That's why I suggested we draft some pass catchers.

But, what do I know ?

Why draft more when you've got 3-4 you've drafted that haven't gotten a shot yet?

And what does it mean he's not a legit #2? If he's listed as #2 on the depth chart but has the same role as last year will he not legitimately do it?

Torrey and Jacoby will be the wide guys taking the top off and any combo of Dickson, shiancoe, doss, deonte, even rice will roam the middle.

These guys are all legitimate in a balanced offense. Boldin wasn't a legit #1. Torrey was our #1 last year anyways, so we won a Super Bowl without a legit #1. We've been competitive the past 5 years without ever having a "legit" top wide out.

The sky is not falling. Yes there's change, but that is consistent with this team. Get used to it and relax everyone. If this group isn't good enough OZ will bring someone in.

If he doesn't then he's confident in them. And if he is, you have no reason not to be.

[jazz1988]

Why draft more when you've got 3-4 you've drafted that haven't gotten a shot yet?

And what does it mean he's not a legit #2? If he's listed as #2 on the depth chart but has the same role as last year will he not legitimately do it?

Torrey and Jacoby will be the wide guys taking the top off and any combo of Dickson, shiancoe, doss, deonte, even rice will roam the middle.

These guys are all legitimate in a balanced offense. Boldin wasn't a legit #1. Torrey was our #1 last year anyways, so we won a Super Bowl without a legit #1. We've been competitive the past 5 years without ever having a "legit" top wide out.

The sky is not falling. Yes there's change, but that is consistent with this team. Get used to it and relax everyone. If this group isn't good enough OZ will bring someone in.

If he doesn't then he's confident in them. And if he is, you have no reason not to be.

 

 

the reason why most believe Jacoby isnt a legit number 2 wideout is because he wasnt able to be one in houston. The texans had hopes that Jacoby Jones would be that perfect side kick( well nothing perfect) to Andre Johnson but he wasnt able to become that guy because of his inconsistencies. Jacoby Jones has all the tools to become a solid number two wideout but he hasn't been able to put it all together atleast not yet.

 

Overall I think Jones could be a good number 2 wideout but you cant help to wonder if he wasn't able to consistently make plays playing along side a elite receiver aka Andre Johnson how can he do the same along side Torrey Smith whom is good but not elite .

[RavensDE]

Streeter is learning that right now. He might have to continue learning in free agency or with another team, sad to say.

It may be. I'd expect him to have another IR injury at the end of camp but I think a number of Raven campers may end up on other teams this year. We have depth at quite a few positions.

[5aiah]

the reason why most believe Jacoby isnt a legit number 2 wideout is because he wasnt able to be one in houston. The texans had hopes that Jacoby Jones would be that perfect side kick( well nothing perfect) to Andre Johnson but he wasnt able to become that guy because of his inconsistencies. Jacoby Jones has all the tools to become a solid number two wideout but he hasn't been able to put it all together atleast not yet.

 

Overall I think Jones could be a good number 2 wideout but you cant help to wonder if he wasn't able to consistently make plays playing along side a elite receiver aka Andre Johnson how can he do the same along side Torrey Smith whom is good but not elite .

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I mean Jacoby is not a legit number 2 wideout I'm not talking about the depth chart. I'm referring to the XYZ positions. Jacoby is very athletic,fast, and a playmaker with the ball in his hands but he lacks the route tree needed to successfully challenge CBs. He is best at streaks,crossing routes, seams, and he can run an ok out. Now he can put some nice moves on you at times as well but mostly unless he is in slot running that seam or on the sidelines going deep he won't seperate much from good cornerbacks. This is why the job is still open, because he can't really do that much in the receiving game and is our special teams guy. He can make big time spectacular catches but not routine ones. His hands are as inconsistent as the other guys. To me a true number 2 receiver is a guy who can rotate with the number one at the X and Z positions and run a variety of routes and produce without a Y receiver as well. Jacoby struggles up on the line of scrimmage because strong more physical CBs make life hard for him and direct him toward the sideline limiting what he can do.

[Ravenslifer]

 

Speed on offense can help in many ways but in the end does it really matter? Is it the key to solve every problem? And is it the main reason why a player is so good? The NFL seems to value speed a whole lot and in most cases for a young rookie whom trying to enter into professional football through NFL draft can see his stock rise or fall depending on his 40 time.

Jerry Rice whom is now recognize as the greatest wide receiver of all time had a 40 time of 4.71 and there were definitely teams that were wary of his speed and some were skeptical in thinking he was worthy of being drafted in the first round because of it but the 49ers still took a chance on him by trading up in the first round to draft him. Jerry Rice didn’t have blazing speed like Torrey Smith, Randy Moss, and etc. but was still able to be dominate for many years in the NFL but what was the reason for this? How was a receiver that was consider to be slow able to beat so many good cornerbacks in the NFL?

 

The NFL has definitely changed since Jerry Rice has played in it but can the need for speed be contributed to an idea that maybe receivers are not as smart route runners/hard workers as they were in the past? which may lead to teams needing receivers to beat opposing defenses due to speed/physique alone a lot more or is it just that Speed is just great to have?. Anquan Boldin whom ran 4.72 4O yard time turn out to be a dominate wide receiver and also became the fastest player in NFL history to reach 600 receptions.

 

In 2013 NFL Draft two very fast wideouts such as Tavon Austin( 40 time 4.34) and Cordarrelle Patterson (40 time 4.33) were drafted in the first round but does their speed mean they will be great receivers in the future or become an instant force for their team right away in their rookie year? Speed does kills but it can’t be everything because a young wide receiver by the name of Deonte Thompson ran a 40 time of 4.29 was not drafted at all last year during the 2012 NFL Draft. Deonte Thompson is currently in the mix to become The Baltimore Ravens # 3 wide receiver and he's competition is mostly against Tandon Doss. Tandon Doss is a receiver that had a 40 time of 4.62 and it's something to keep in mind as Ravens Fans look forward towards this year preseason/regular season because in the end Tandon vs Deonte may answer everything this topic is about but any way is speed the only thing that matters?

 

( I like to say I copied and paste this from BaltimoreBeatdown.com and i made this post there first but figure i'll share it here as well)

 

 

If speed were all that matters, the Raiders would have won a lot more Superbowls.  If we're talking specifically WR, more often than not the quarterback will make the receiver.  Tavon Austin can run as fast as he wants, but if Bradford doesn't get him the ball it doesn't matter.  Remember this is a team that not only has Tavon Austin, but Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, Austin Pettis, and Brian Quick - lack of receiving options is definitely NOT one of their problems.

[Guest RBates]

There is a difference between speed and blazing speed. Running a  4.2 anything, is world class speed, this would be considered track speed in the NFL. 

 

Hard to catch a 4.2 guy (blazing speed).

[Tank 92]

If you can't get open and catch, obviously speed means zilch for a WR. 

 

The need for speed is most apparent in the kick return game, but artificial playing surfaces have increased the importance of speed at all positions.

[berad]

Ask Yamon Figurs.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

Speed is only one thing , you can have blazing speed but bad hands, blazing speed but only flat out speed . it's more about rout skills , hands , judgement , those things matter more

[5aiah]

If speed were all that matters, the Raiders would have won a lot more Superbowls.  If we're talking specifically WR, more often than not the quarterback will make the receiver.  Tavon Austin can run as fast as he wants, but if Bradford doesn't get him the ball it doesn't matter.  Remember this is a team that not only has Tavon Austin, but Stedman Bailey, Chris Givens, Austin Pettis, and Brian Quick - lack of receiving options is definitely NOT one of their problems.

Again, Tavon's strength isn't even speed. In fact scouts had doubts about his top speed in the first place. His agility and acceleration is top of the line in the NFL,that is what people are drooling over. Top Speed means so little without anything supporting it.

[baltravens]

 

Speed on offense can help in many ways but in the end does it really matter? Is it the key to solve every problem? And is it the main reason why a player is so good? The NFL seems to value speed a whole lot and in most cases for a young rookie whom trying to enter into professional football through NFL draft can see his stock rise or fall depending on his 40 time.

Jerry Rice whom is now recognize as the greatest wide receiver of all time had a 40 time of 4.71 and there were definitely teams that were wary of his speed and some were skeptical in thinking he was worthy of being drafted in the first round because of it but the 49ers still took a chance on him by trading up in the first round to draft him. Jerry Rice didn’t have blazing speed like Torrey Smith, Randy Moss, and etc. but was still able to be dominate for many years in the NFL but what was the reason for this? How was a receiver that was consider to be slow able to beat so many good cornerbacks in the NFL?

 

The NFL has definitely changed since Jerry Rice has played in it but can the need for speed be contributed to an idea that maybe receivers are not as smart route runners/hard workers as they were in the past? which may lead to teams needing receivers to beat opposing defenses due to speed/physique alone a lot more or is it just that Speed is just great to have?. Anquan Boldin whom ran 4.72 4O yard time turn out to be a dominate wide receiver and also became the fastest player in NFL history to reach 600 receptions.

 

In 2013 NFL Draft two very fast wideouts such as Tavon Austin( 40 time 4.34) and Cordarrelle Patterson (40 time 4.33) were drafted in the first round but does their speed mean they will be great receivers in the future or become an instant force for their team right away in their rookie year? Speed does kills but it can’t be everything because a young wide receiver by the name of Deonte Thompson ran a 40 time of 4.29 was not drafted at all last year during the 2012 NFL Draft. Deonte Thompson is currently in the mix to become The Baltimore Ravens # 3 wide receiver and he's competition is mostly against Tandon Doss. Tandon Doss is a receiver that had a 40 time of 4.62 and it's something to keep in mind as Ravens Fans look forward towards this year preseason/regular season because in the end Tandon vs Deonte may answer everything this topic is about but any way is speed the only thing that matters?

 

( I like to say I copied and paste this from BaltimoreBeatdown.com and i made this post there first but figure i'll share it here as well)

 

If you know football, look up the term competitive or playing speed. Jerry Rice the best receiver in NFL history was known for having competitve speed. Some players amp it up and are more productive when another player(s) is chasing them or during real game action.

[izvoodoo]

Again, Tavon's strength isn't even speed. In fact scouts had doubts about his top speed in the first place. His agility and acceleration is top of the line in the NFL,that is what people are drooling over. Top Speed means so little without anything supporting it.

Having seen Tavon play in person:

 

Hit top speed is excellent.  But it's his shiftiness that makes him great, but he can burn.

[CalvinSmoke]

Jacoby Jones can't be our #2 and kick returner, that takes extreme conditioning that I don't believe he has. He's always huffin and puffin, he needs his breaks. 

 

 

But I think it's a general consensus that speed is nice, but is a luxury. No point of having luxury if the necessities aren't fulfilled though. 

[5aiah]

Having seen Tavon play in person:

 

Hit top speed is excellent.  But it's his shiftiness that makes him great, but he can burn.

Yeah no doubt, he can run a 4.2, I played with him in high school. But that isn't what makes him such a dangerous guy.

[nyc9192]

If you can't get open and catch, obviously speed means zilch for a WR. 

 

The need for speed is most apparent in the kick return game, but artificial playing surfaces have increased the importance of speed at all positions.

Facts

[izvoodoo]

Yeah no doubt, he can run a 4.2, I played with him in high school. But that isn't what makes him such a dangerous guy.

I'm just trying to knock the scouts.  Like... you're watching this tape and thinking he's not fast?

[5aiah]

I'm just trying to knock the scouts.  Like... you're watching this tape and thinking he's not fast?

I don't know what they were watching. But he blew em away at the combine.

[izvoodoo]

I don't know what they were watching. But he blew em away at the combine.

Some people just suck at scouting.

 

 

And they work for the nfl network.

 

B AZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!

[5aiah]

Some people just suck at scouting.

 

 

And they work for the nfl network.

 

B AZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!

I know. Lol. How do they get these jobs man? Smh.

[izvoodoo]

I know. Lol. How do they get these jobs man? Smh.

Well, I used to work in Radio, and I'm trying to move to LA for advertisement.

 

It's important to remember that sometimes being really WRONG about something in sports is good for viewership.  It illicits a response in your audience, and makes them want to watch.  Inflamation is another form of advertisement, audience does not lack an intellectual masochism.

 

/rant.

[Ravenslifer]

Again, Tavon's strength isn't even speed. In fact scouts had doubts about his top speed in the first place. His agility and acceleration is top of the line in the NFL,that is what people are drooling over. Top Speed means so little without anything supporting it.

 

I wasn't really trying to talk about Austin.  My point is just that he could be Randy Moss + T.O., but it won't matter if Bradford can't get him the ball.  There are very, very few receivers I've seen in my life that could put up big numbers with poor quarterback play.  Maybe Calvin Johnson, and that's it. Randy Moss had Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper, and Tom Brady throwing him the football.  T.O. had Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, Tony Romo, and Carson Palmer.  We're not exactly talking about the Ryan Leaf's and JaMarcus Russell's of the world.

 

Sam Bradford is going into his 4th year as a starter, his highest completion percentage was in his rookie season, he's never thrown for more than 20 TDs in a season, averages almost an INT per game ... I think he could one day be a solid starting quarterback, but I just don't think he's as good as people want to pretend.  He has a ridiculous amount of weaponry around him - he has no more excuses.  I kind of lump Bradford in with guys like Mark Brunell, or maybe a Jeff Garcia if he's lucky enough.  I honestly would not be surprised if Austin looks like a total bust his first few years in the league - IMO almost no wide receiver can look great without great quarterback play.

[Tank 92]

Jacoby Jones can't be our #2 and kick returner, that takes extreme conditioning that I don't believe he has. He's always huffin and puffin, he needs his breaks. 

 

 

I wouldn't sell Dragonfly short just yet. He looks extremely fit and all that dancing could not have hurt.

[CalvinSmoke]

I wouldn't sell Dragonfly short just yet. He looks extremely fit and all that dancing could not have hurt.

That's what i was hoping for, but he was winded after every dance he did, and then he failed his conditioning test soon after. He's back in shape but I don't know about that level of conditioning.