Ron Jaworski's top 32 QB's 2013

[lgcs27288]

I didn't see this posted anywhere on the forums and kind of surprised it's not being discussed, but it looks like our boy has a chance to be top 5!

 

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2013/07/2013-jaws-qb-countdown/

 

 

I'm assuming Ben is going to be number 7 and hopefully Matt Ryan will be 6. That would leave Flacco at 5 with Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers rounding out the top 4.

 

Not bad...

[Gordo52]

I love this series of his.

Does anyone remember where Flacco was ranked last year? I know he was high. Can't remember if Ben or Ryan were in front of him.

[Purple Punishment]

I didn't see this posted anywhere on the forums and kind of surprised it's not being discussed, but it looks like our boy has a chance to be top 5!

 

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2013/07/2013-jaws-qb-countdown/

 

 

I'm assuming Ben is going to be number 7 and hopefully Matt Ryan will be 6. That would leave Flacco at 5 with Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers rounding out the top 4.

 

Not bad...

 

Brees tanked this past year so he might have a chance to be #4....slim chance but maybe he makes 4

[JEEPercreepermd]

Jaws has been a huge Flacco guy since his rookie year, so I wouldn't put it past him to put Flacco as high as 3 or 4

[plesiosaur]

I love this series of his.
 

Does anyone remember where Flacco was ranked last year? I know he was high. Can't remember if Ben or Ryan were in front of him.

 

from the 2012 list:

 

No. 15 Cam Newton Carolina Panthers

No. 14 Matthew Stafford Detroit Lions

No. 13 Matt Schaub Houston Texans

No. 12 Michael Vick Philadelphia Eagles

No. 11 Matt Ryan Atlanta Falcons

No. 10 Tony Romo Dallas Cowboys

No. 9 Joe Flacco Baltimore Ravens

No. 8 Jay Cutler Chicago Bears

No. 7 Philip Rivers San Diego Chargers

No. 6 Ben Roethlisberger Pittsburgh Steelers

No. 5 Eli Manning New York Giants

No. 4 Peyton Manning Denver Broncos

No. 3 Tom Brady New England Patriots

No. 2 Drew Brees New Orleans Saints

Rodgers was #1

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/43623/jaws-qb-countdown-aaron-rodgers-no-1

[Gordo52]

Thanks. I'm guessing Flacco ends up at 5

[SteelersProphet]

matt ryan ahead of ben?......I hope jaws doesn't make that mistake

 

edit. also for all you people who think ben is injury prone and past his prime......jaws doesn't thinks so

 

im guessing as soon as joe is revealed a lot of praise is going to be heaped on jaws in this thread.....so you cant say he is a hack

[NaveSenrag]

Jaws is the best. He's always been a Flacco fan.

[Gordo52]

matt ryan ahead of ben?......I hope jaws doesn't make that mistake

edit. also for all you people who think ben is injury prone and past his prime......jaws doesn't thinks so

im guessing as soon as joe is revealed a lot of praise is going to be heaped on jaws in this thread.....so you cant say he is a hack

Ben deserves to be up here, Possibly in front of Ryan. I still think he's gonna be a beast for another year or two FWIW.

[Moderator 3]

I also think Ben should rank ahead of Matt. I just don't understand all of the media love for Ryan when he hasn't done it when it counts. Ben has performed time and again while Matt has fizzled.

[CARavensFan]

Ben deserves to be up here, Possibly in front of Ryan. I still think he's gonna be a beast for another year or two FWIW.

 

Agreed, I don't think that Ben will age as gracefully as some other QBs because of his playing style, but he's going to be a monster (and a pain for the Ravens) as long as he is healthy.

 

I also think Ben should rank ahead of Matt. I just don't understand all of the media love for Ryan when he hasn't done it when it counts. Ben has performed time and again while Matt has fizzled.

 

Its the Fantasy Football Stat Folks that drive the love of Ryan, in the same way that people give Peyton crazy amounts of love for his amazing regular season stats.

 

In some ways I could see Flacco vs. Ryan being the next generation of the Peyton vs. Brady debate, one has the great regular season stats that puts him in the records books and makes fantasy football players love him, while the other has the postseason success and Super Bowl rings that make him stand out.

 

It should be a great ride and I can't wait to see how it all plays out for the QBs of the 2008 Draft :D

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just to play devil's advocate here - we're all loving Jaws right now for ranking Joe high, but do keep in mind that he and Joe are personal friends.

 

We always hate media bias in here, except in cases like this when that bias is pro-Ravens. Jaws and Flacco are buddies so of course he's gonna rank him high. We will say deservedly so - Jaws is just being accurate, but others will definitely say Jaws is looking out for his boy and putting him much higher than he deserves.

[beasy2487]

Just to play devil's advocate here - we're all loving Jaws right now for ranking Joe high, but do keep in mind that he and Joe are personal friends.
 
We always hate media bias in here, except in cases like this when that bias is pro-Ravens. Jaws and Flacco are buddies so of course he's gonna rank him high. We will say deservedly so - Jaws is just being accurate, but others will definitely say Jaws is looking out for his boy and putting him much higher than he deserves.

I disagree that we hate media bias. We hate anti-Ravens bias. Media bias is driven purely by perception. For example, here we think the media loves the Patriots. If you go to Pats boards they call BAL a media darling. Seems absurd to us but it's an issue of perspective. Biased or not, we like to see the media give our guys love.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I disagree that we hate media bias. We hate anti-Ravens bias. Media bias is driven purely by perception. For example, here we think the media loves the Patriots. If you go to Pats boards they call BAL a media darling. Seems absurd to us but it's an issue of perspective. Biased or not, we like to see the media give our guys love.

 

 

So we don't hate when a Steelers guy shows the Steelers love? Or when a pro-pats player shows the pats love?

 

You even just mentioned that we think the media is pro-pats.... which isn't anti-ravens, and we don't like it. However, not really getting into this.

 

The main point was, this list isn't Joe finally getting respect nationally... its just a Joe supporter. This list, just like a Super Bowl MVP, will not help Joe become a consensus Top 5-7 QB. Most will just say this list is a reflection of him and Jaws being friends, not a reflection of how good he is.

[Ravensfan23]

Just to play devil's advocate here - we're all loving Jaws right now for ranking Joe high, but do keep in mind that he and Joe are personal friends.

 

We always hate media bias in here, except in cases like this when that bias is pro-Ravens. Jaws and Flacco are buddies so of course he's gonna rank him high. We will say deservedly so - Jaws is just being accurate, but others will definitely say Jaws is looking out for his boy and putting him much higher than he deserves.

 

Just to play the other side of the debate. While I agree that this is what could be said, anyone who says this should also know that Jaws and other guys like Boomer, Sims, Mayock and I believe Aikman, have always song the praises of Flacco and said he was unjustly criticized. Although I don't know exactly how far back the friendship of Jaws and Joe extends, I do know that before I heard Jaws publicly state he and Joe were friends, he thought highly of him. 

[SteelersProphet]

The main point was, this list isn't Joe finally getting respect nationally... its just a Joe supporter. This list, just like a Super Bowl MVP, will not help Joe become a consensus Top 5-7 QB. Most will just say this list is a reflection of him and Jaws being friends, not a reflection of how good he is.

 

I think its both.....because even though jaws is friends with flacco he also is a recognized expert on QB's

 

now if he just put flacco on top without justification he would start to lose some of that respect as a guy who's opinion is valuable

 

that's more important than his buddy......now he might be looking for any opportunity to rank him high....but he is not going to rank him higher than he thinks he can justify

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Just to play the other side of the debate. While I agree that this is what could be said, anyone who says this should also know that Jaws and other guys like Boomer, Sims, Mayock and I believe Aikman, have always song the praises of Flacco and said he was unjustly criticized. Although I don't know exactly how far back the friendship of Jaws and Joe extends, I do know that before I heard Jaws publicly state he and Joe were friends, he thought highly of him. 

 

He lives near Flacco. Has known him and been following him since high school and through college.

 

And like I said, I think the praise is just accurate and justified. Just pointing out that this will not equate to national recognition of being in the top 5-7 of QB's like he should be. It will be brushed aside as just Flacco love from Jaws.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I think its both.....because even though jaws is friends with flacco he also is a recognized expert on QB's

 

now if he just put flacco on top without justification he would start to lose some of that respect as a guy who's opinion is valuable

 

that's more important than his buddy......now he might be looking for any opportunity to rank him high....but he is not going to rank him higher than he thinks he can justify

 

 

Absolutely agreed. I'm more so talking about those who don't want to rank Joe that high. They will use the friendship as a way to discredit him being that high.

 

Just like we at time will not credit other experts who pick the Pats or Steelers over us bc of their ties to those franchises.

[SteelersProphet]

Absolutely agreed. I'm more so talking about those who don't want to rank Joe that high. They will use the friendship as a way to discredit him being that high.

 

Just like we at time will not credit other experts who pick the Pats or Steelers over us bc of their ties to those franchises.

 

Absolutely agreed. I'm more so talking about those who don't want to rank Joe that high. They will use the friendship as a way to discredit him being that high.

 

Just like we at time will not credit other experts who pick the Pats or Steelers over us bc of their ties to those franchises.

that's true.....but I don't think the general public or the majority of the media will ever accept flacco as a top 5 QB.....I think he's talented enough to be there skill wise

 

but like Ben, flacco will always be "oh yea and flacco"..... even though I think Ben is a top 5 QB easily....he will always be bumped out by the flavor of the month QB's

 

like the 49ers wonder boy....he had a great year.....but it was half a year.....ben won 14 straight games his rookie year...he was the first QB ever to win rookie of the year....and followed that up with three superbowl appearences...he has been a chronic number 6 in QB ratings over the years......I was watching ESPN and some yahoo had Colin as 5 in his top 5.....that's the fate of flacco IMO

[Ravensfan23]

He lives near Flacco. Has known him and been following him since high school and through college.

 

And like I said, I think the praise is just accurate and justified. Just pointing out that this will not equate to national recognition of being in the top 5-7 of QB's like he should be. It will be brushed aside as just Flacco love from Jaws.

 

Oh i'm not saying you are wrong, or that you didn't think the praise was justified. just saying

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

that's true.....but I don't think the general public or the majority of the media will ever accept flacco as a top 5 QB.....I think he's talented enough to be there skill wise

 

but like Ben, flacco will always be "oh yea and flacco"..... even though I think Ben is a top 5 QB easily....he will always be bumped out by the flavor of the month QB's

 

like the 49ers wonder boy....he had a great year.....but it was half a year.....ben won 14 straight games his rookie year...he was the first QB ever to win rookie of the year....and followed that up with three superbowl appearences...he has been a chronic number 6 in QB ratings over the years......I was watching ESPN and some yahoo had Colin as 5 in his top 5.....that's the fate of flacco IMO

 

 

There's QB's who win by any means necessary. Ben and Joe have personalities and games that match the team they play for - rugged, at times not pretty, but effective enough to win games. Winning sometimes running the ball over and over again, grinding out the tough yards on the ground and letting your defense do its thing. Or punting and playing a field position battle. Ben and Joe are both the types of QB's who do what the situation calls for in order to win the game. This often takes away from personal stats, and holds them back from jumping into that top 5 category.

 

You're right, I don't think either will ever get the acclaim of being a top QB in the league. Always the bridesmaid, or the runner up in rankings. But ill definitely take that if it means my QB can win the big game and be #1 during the season, and theirs is #1 in the off season.

[SteelersProphet]

There's QB's who win by any means necessary. Ben and Joe have personalities and games that match the team they play for - rugged, at times not pretty, but effective enough to win games. Winning sometimes running the ball over and over again, grinding out the tough yards on the ground and letting your defense do its thing. Or punting and playing a field position battle. Ben and Joe are both the types of QB's who do what the situation calls for in order to win the game. This often takes away from personal stats, and holds them back from jumping into that top 5 category.

 

You're right, I don't think either will ever get the acclaim of being a top QB in the league. Always the bridesmaid, or the runner up in rankings. But ill definitely take that if it means my QB can win the big game and be #1 during the season, and theirs is #1 in the off season.

yep ill take it as well.........also QB's who are focused on winning not looking good are also the ones who can come back from a bad start or overcome the ball not bouncing your way because all you have to do is start scoring now and the game can still be yours, some QB's lose sight of that

[beasy2487]

Absolutely agreed. I'm more so talking about those who don't want to rank Joe that high. They will use the friendship as a way to discredit him being that high.

 

Just like we at time will not credit other experts who pick the Pats or Steelers over us bc of their ties to those franchises.

The point I'm making is that everyone, particularly in sports media is biased. We get annoyed when the bias isn't pro-ravens, regardless of who it's for. Does it annoy me when Bruschi and Harrison shower the Pats with love? Absolutely. Does it annoy me when Ray Lewis and Matt Birk drink the purple koolaid? Absolutely not.

[SteelersProphet]

The point I'm making is that everyone, particularly in sports media is biased. We get annoyed when the bias isn't pro-ravens, regardless of who it's for. Does it annoy me when Bruschi and Harrison shower the Pats with love? Absolutely. Does it annoy me when Ray Lewis and Matt Birk drink the purple koolaid? Absolutely not.

speaking from an outside perspective,

 

when you read an article that your convinced is dripping with bias towards another team you discredit the analysis as false or close to it. now if I said that about this article would you defend its factual basis even though if you were me youd think the same thing....or do you discredit the factual analysis of pro-ravens articles as well

[beanfigger]

I don't how much credence this has, but someone posted Jaw's entire 2013 list as a game on Sporcle a few days ago.  So far, it has been correct, but I can't find it anymore.  Flacco was ranked #6, with Ryan at 5.  Not that I agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me because Jaws had Ryan ranked in the top 3 or 4 after the regular season this past year.

 

I found the Sporcle game:  http://www.sporcle.com/games/saybye627/ron-jaworskis-2013-qb-countdown

[Ravensfan23]

that's true.....but I don't think the general public or the majority of the media will ever accept flacco as a top 5 QB.....I think he's talented enough to be there skill wise

 

but like Ben, flacco will always be "oh yea and flacco"..... even though I think Ben is a top 5 QB easily....he will always be bumped out by the flavor of the month QB's

 

like the 49ers wonder boy....he had a great year.....but it was half a year.....ben won 14 straight games his rookie year...he was the first QB ever to win rookie of the year....and followed that up with three superbowl appearences...he has been a chronic number 6 in QB ratings over the years......I was watching ESPN and some yahoo had Colin as 5 in his top 5.....that's the fate of flacco IMO

 

I disagree. I'll sound like a jerk with this statement but most casual fans/general public know little to nothing about football and are just puppets to the national media. The names and perceptions that are shoved down their throats the most is what they believe and follow. Now I know this appears to be making your point, but here's why I disagree.

 

My opinion on Ben is that he's a winner playing the QB position. It's not pretty, he's not all about stats and numbers, he'll make some boneheaded mistakes at times, but when the game is on the line, he gives you as good a chance as anyone to win. Most fans outside of Pittsburgh won't understand this. Now most media doesn't really dig into what make guys good, great, or otherwise. These guys that just look at numbers and nothing else will look at Ben and say. In a NFL when you have so many 4,000yds 30TD passers, Ben has only passed over 3,600yds 3 times and 20+ TDs 4 times in his 9 year career. This just doesn't look good in a stats crazed era the NFL is in right now. Jaws refreshingly doesn't do this.

 

The same would be true for Flacco if his career mirrored Ben's, and while it does seemingly do so now, I think he'll start to produce the numbers that Ben never has and that'll force the media and casual fan to start to place Joe among the better QBs or just look foolish for not doing so. Now many of us around here think that Cam has held Flacco back, I personally think he's held Flacco back greatly. That might seem like an excuse for poor play as a Steelers fan but I guess this year will prove that. But if you look at Joe's 5 year numbers compared to say Brady and Brees, he's either as good or better then those guys in most categories. It wasn't until at least year 6 that those guys started to take that next step into the Elite level QBs. But fan perception is that those guys were always great because the media never show the early years when those guys struggled.

 

Years 5-10 are the years that a QB really takes that next step into being viewed as one of the best and if he does take that step he usually has immunity from criticism in the media/public eye. imo. Years 5-9 has been filled with injury for Ben and while there are 2 super bowl appearances in that time, I think the injuries and inconsistencies stick out more to people. Ben has never really been able to take that final step, the jury is still out on Flacco.

 

Guys like Kaep and others always seem to weed themselves. The hype machine is big now, but much like CJ2K if the production isn't as big as the hype they fall off.

[SteelersProphet]

Years 5-10 are the years that a QB really takes that next step into being viewed as one of the best and if he does take that step he usually has immunity from criticism in the media/public eye. imo. Years 5-9 has been filled with injury for Ben and while there are 2 super bowl appearances in that time, I think the injuries and inconsistencies stick out more to people. Ben has never really been able to take that final step, the jury is still out on Flacco.

 

those QB's that chase those numbers don't win superbowls.......Brees has one.....Rodgers one....Manning one.......Stafford not even close.......Ryan one playoff win...........Brady has three all won when he didn't put up those big stat years

 

their ranking system needs work lol....success is what counts

[beanfigger]

I know having Ryan ahead of any of the 7 Superbowl champion QBs is ridiculous, but I am at least glad that Eli isn't ahead of Ben or Joe.  I have (sometimes unfairly) hated on Eli for years, but he has comparable, if not better, numbers in many categories as Ben and Joe, and he has also had success in the postseason.  However, it is in that area that I find the difference.  Eli is among the top current signal callers in total postseason wins, and he is second only to Joe in road playoff wins.  The thing that nobody seems to mention after those stats, though, is that all of his postseason wins came in two seasons.  I'm not denying that those two Superbowl championship runs weren't impressive, but seven of his nine career seasons net a combined ZERO playoff wins.  None, zilch, nada, bupkus, whatever made up word you wanna use to say nothing.  When the number one criticism you hear for the QB of your favorite team is that he is inconsistent (which if you look at Flacco, you realize is the opposite of the truth if you go by season total numbers and playoff success every year), it makes me crazy when people claim this drops him below the likes of the most inconsistent QB this side of Cutler and Rivers, and that is Eli Manning.  When people always say, "Who would you trust more to win you a playoff game?" all the time as their argument for him, I'd like to respond with, "I don't know.  Probably the guy that's won in the playoffs every season of his career more than the guy that has failed to do that in 7 of his 9 seasons."

[beanfigger]

those QB's that chase those numbers don't win superbowls.......Brees has one.....Rodgers one....Manning one.......Stafford not even close.......Ryan one playoff win...........Brady has three all won when he didn't put up those big stat years

 

their ranking system needs work lol....success is what counts

 

Marino, Moon, Fouts, Tarkenton... You could make a case that this is an historic precedent.  Would you rather your QB break records like these guys, or win multiple championships like Bradshaw and Aikman?

[PolishRifle]

I love this series of his.

Does anyone remember where Flacco was ranked last year? I know he was high. Can't remember if Ben or Ryan were in front of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMIwxvHcQRI

 

Jaws has always been a huge Flacco supporter. I can imagine, that he will use this years list to give everyone a "I told you so" speech.