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RedFire

Would competent QB play had given us more rings last decade?

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I think so. we were not perfect in all regards....but i think that would have gotten us at least one more ring before Flacco came on board. We saw Flacco his rookie season be somewhat competent and get us to the AFC championship game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point of this thread is:

 

Hold up...Kyle Boller ran a 4.61 40yrd dash?!??!........

I looked it up on google and it popped up. That's faster than Joe Flacco and Big Ben (scrambler).Also, that time is pretty close to Russell Wilson (4.55) and faster than Jay Cutler (4.77) who rolls outs!........

 

He could throw the ball 60yrds on one knee and run a solid 40yrd time for a QB.....but he was a sitting duck in the pocket?!?! I'm just finding out about the 40yrd time. Now i know he could have escaped some of the trouble he had if he had an ounce of pocket awareness and got plays for rollouts.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah....still mad about Boller and those wasted yrs when we only needed a competent QB. Once we got a competent QB in McNair he could only throw the ball 20yrds cause of injury. 

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Did you watch any games from 2003-2007 lol? Team easily could have won 2 rings in that window alone.
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Did you watch any games from 2003-2007 lol? Team easily could have won 2 rings in that window alone.

 

 

the point was I didn't even notice the 40-time of boller cause he always looked slow and lost. 

 

Like...he had the speed measurable, which i didn't know about and he was still not effective.  I was born in the mid-80's so I seen every Ravens Game and CFL Stallions game, but I never knew Boller had some decent speed that he couldn't figure out how to use, haha. 

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the point was I didn't even notice the 40-time of boller cause he always looked slow and lost. 

 

Like...he had the speed measurable, which i didn't know about and he was still not effective.  I was born in the mid-80's so I seen every Ravens Game and CFL Stallions game, but I never knew Boller had some decent speed that he couldn't figure out how to use, haha. 

 

A decent arm and some brains would've been better.

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I think so. we were not perfect in all regards....but i think that would have gotten us at least one more ring before Flacco came on board. We saw Flacco his rookie season be somewhat competent and get us to the AFC championship game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point of this thread is:

 

Hold up...Kyle Boller ran a 4.61 40yrd dash?!??!........

I looked it up on google and it popped up. That's faster than Joe Flacco and Big Ben (scrambler).Also, that time is pretty close to Russell Wilson (4.55) and faster than Jay Cutler (4.77) who rolls outs!........

 

He could throw the ball 60yrds on one knee and run a solid 40yrd time for a QB.....but he was a sitting duck in the pocket?!?! I'm just finding out about the 40yrd time. Now i know he could have escaped some of the trouble he had if he had an ounce of pocket awareness and got plays for rollouts.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah....still mad about Boller and those wasted yrs when we only needed a competed QB. Once we got a competent QB in McNair he could only throw the ball 20yrds cause of injury. 

Sure. We have ALL heard of Boller.

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Yea. Ifhthe offense even showed a pulse from 01-07 could have added at least 1 more ring. The teams only efficient players on offense were either ran into the ground or ineligible receivers (linemen). This is why the divison built between the offense and defense. People who like to compare our defenses always seem to forget to mention how inefficient the offense the defense was playing with might have been. If they could have done their part the numbers past defenses could have put up could have been all time great.

I remember watching many games where it felt I was watching the defense play offense.
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I make it no secret I was and still am a Boller fan.

He had tons of potential that was never touched.
We saw rare moments here and there of a great QB which could have brought us those rings..
Had he strung enough of those few rare great moments together....

I don't know if it was coaching or lack thereof, or he was shell shocked from getting his clock cleaned ten thousand times. I dunno.
Just watch the Ravens vs. The undefeated Patriots game.
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I think so. we were not perfect in all regards....but i think that would have gotten us at least one more ring before Flacco came on board. We saw Flacco his rookie season be somewhat competent and get us to the AFC championship game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But the point of this thread is:

 

Hold up...Kyle Boller ran a 4.61 40yrd dash?!??!........

I looked it up on google and it popped up. That's faster than Joe Flacco and Big Ben (scrambler).Also, that time is pretty close to Russell Wilson (4.55) and faster than Jay Cutler (4.77) who rolls outs!........

 

He could throw the ball 60yrds on one knee and run a solid 40yrd time for a QB.....but he was a sitting duck in the pocket?!?! I'm just finding out about the 40yrd time. Now i know he could have escaped some of the trouble he had if he had an ounce of pocket awareness and got plays for rollouts.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yeah....still mad about Boller and those wasted yrs when we only needed a competed QB. Once we got a competent QB in McNair he could only throw the ball 20yrds cause of injury. 

"Football is 80% mental, 40% physical." Boller just never had what it took upstairs.

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"Football is 80% mental, 40% physical." Boller just never had what it took upstairs.

If that is the whole story I blame coaching....

That said I dont think that is the WHOLE story.

Most of it though...

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If that is the whole story I blame coaching....

That said I dont think that is the WHOLE story.
Most of it though...


True. We had terrible offensive coaches throughout that time, namely Cavanaugh and Fassell. Cameron was actually a gigantic upgrade. He got the offense to be average where it had been one of the worse in the league.
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Did you watch any games from 2003-2007 lol? Team easily could have won 2 rings in that window alone.

I agree, we had a D that used to eat offenses for breakfast, easy 2 rings,
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I never knew Bolller's 40 time and was shocked....so i wanted to share my feelings  :229031_rant:

 

But you can't title a thread about Boller and keep it on "Ravens Talk" .... I pretty much wondered if I was the only one out of the loop about his secret speed that he never used, hahaha. 

 

 

it's pretty much a "no duh" title IMO. But the fact people brought up coaching being more to blame is an actual point of discussion. *ponders on that thought*

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I think Billick wanted Boller to be everything Flacco is and Cam would have been better off coaching a game manager like Boller.

 

Boller had all the talent in the world he just couldn't handle being thrown to the wolves early in his career. I think he's very comparable to a Matt Schaub type QB. He would have worked so well in a play action heavy offense. But if you put the game in his hands, he'll make a few great plays followed by a few bone headed plays. Schuab is the same way imo.

 

I actually though the Pats 2007 game could have been a turning point in his career, but again that costly mistake showed up late i that game. I often wonder if the Ravens had won that game, would it ever had been a Harbaugh and Flacco era?

 

To answer the question, yes we could have won a couple Super Bowls. I think it was a bad mix of coaching and QB play.

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Yea. Ifhthe offense even showed a pulse from 01-07 could have added at least 1 more ring. The teams only efficient players on offense were either ran into the ground or ineligible receivers (linemen). This is why the divison built between the offense and defense. People who like to compare our defenses always seem to forget to mention how inefficient the offense the defense was playing with might have been. If they could have done their part the numbers past defenses could have put up could have been all time great.

I remember watching many games where it felt I was watching the defense play offense.

Mason and Heap? McGahee? 

 

Granted Mason was 05 and McGahee was 07.

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I think Billick wanted Boller to be everything Flacco is and Cam would have been better off coaching a game manager like Boller.

 

Boller had all the talent in the world he just couldn't handle being thrown to the wolves early in his career. I think he's very comparable to a Matt Schaub type QB. He would have worked so well in a play action heavy offense. But if you put the game in his hands, he'll make a few great plays followed by a few bone headed plays. Schuab is the same way imo.

 

I actually though the Pats 2007 game could have been a turning point in his career, but again that costly mistake showed up late i that game. I often wonder if the Ravens had won that game, would it ever had been a Harbaugh and Flacco era?

 

To answer the question, yes we could have won a couple Super Bowls. I think it was a bad mix of coaching and QB play.

I think coaching was what killed Boller's career and Billick's. In fact, I have a theory that if a player isn't developed properly within a certain window of time, that player's confidence is shot and they end up never realizing their potential. I might get some disagreement here and that's fine. I just think Boller could've been a great QB, but his problem was the organ between his ears and the coaching he received. I think Cameron could have done a good job with Boller, but I also think by the time Cameron had Boller it was too late.

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Boller lacked poise
I remember in 2006 McNair and the ol were on a sack less streak then McNair got hurt for a play or so. Boller came in and basically sacked himself y tripping over his own feet. That to me defined boller. Think he had the measurables but just wasn't what joe is in terms of poise.

Like someone else here, I've never stopped being a boller fan. Always wanted to see him succeed and even tho I was happy getting McNair it felt like it came at a time when boller was just about to get it. He ended the 2005 campaign on a high note of sorts as 2 of the last 3 games were great games.

Anyways I'm more than happy with flacco and harbaugh and have to acknowledge that billick doing slightly better in 2007 means we may have missed out on flacco and harbs and what I view as a bright bright future
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Boller was a weak-minded QB that could never slow the game down mentally. Boller had the physical attributes but lacked the ability to not freeze in key situations.
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I think coaching was what killed Boller's career and Billick's. In fact, I have a theory that if a player isn't developed properly within a certain window of time, that player's confidence is shot and they end up never realizing their potential. I might get some disagreement here and that's fine. I just think Boller could've been a great QB, but his problem was the organ between his ears and the coaching he received. I think Cameron could have done a good job with Boller, but I also think by the time Cameron had Boller it was too late.

 

this is exactly why the average NFL career is only 3.5 years. It is so important to allow guys to develop. Not to get off track, but that's why I think the time is right to allow the WRs to step up and take larger roles this year.

 

I agree that it was too late for Boller once Cam was able to work with him. I don't know if Boller would have ever been truly great, but he would have definitely been good enough to win a couple of Super Bowl which would have obviously made his career much better.

 

I know many people will disagree, but Boller was a lot like Aaron Rogers. All the talent in the world but need great coaching to refine a few things. Rogers was so fortunate to be able to sit behind Favre for 3 years and because just develop. This is exactly what Boller needed. Now i'm not saying he would have turned out as good a Rogers, but I think Billick and company could have definitely got more out of him.

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Keep in mind too that Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

I am pretty sure Boller at his best was better than Dilfer at his best.
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You can thank the dumb people(coaches and fans alike) that rooted for kyle boller for so long. B/c kind of homerism is what kept him in the uniform with the ravens for so long. We wasted some very good years w/ some of the best defense NFL has EVER seen...all washed away b/c of horrendous performances by that crummy QB.

Not sure how many times i've been banned @ forums telling ppl he sucks. And yet, people still kept thinking he'll pan out. Glad his gone, glad the team moved on.
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the 06 colts playoff game answers this question for me. any team that can hold a peyton manning team to all FGs and still lose the game definitely only had 50% of the equation. a real QB wins that game after such a defensive effort

 

thats when peyton was on top of the world too. the 06 ravens could have won it

 

nothing against steve mcnair, he was an upgrade, but he wasnt a game breaker anymore

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the 06 colts playoff game answers this question for me. any team that can hold a peyton manning team to all FGs and still lose the game definitely only had 50% of the equation. a real QB wins that game after such a defensive effort
 
thats when peyton was on top of the world too. the 06 ravens could have won it
 
nothing against steve mcnair, he was an upgrade, but he wasnt a game breaker anymore

Would have absolutely wrecked the Bears in that Super Bowl, just wrecked them.
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Boller was a weak-minded QB that could never slow the game down mentally. Boller had the physical attributes but lacked the ability to not freeze in key situations.

Yes, kind of sums up what a bust is.

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the 06 colts playoff game answers this question for me. any team that can hold a peyton manning team to all FGs and still lose the game definitely only had 50% of the equation. a real QB wins that game after such a defensive effort

 

thats when peyton was on top of the world too. the 06 ravens could have won it

 

nothing against steve mcnair, he was an upgrade, but he wasnt a game breaker anymore

 

you do know McNair was injured, right? You realize he really couldn't throw the ball more than 20yrds and we dinked and dunked to protect him. The competence was not making the big turnover through the season hence 13-3. 

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You can thank the dumb people(coaches and fans alike) that rooted for kyle boller for so long. B/c kind of homerism is what kept him in the uniform with the ravens for so long. We wasted some very good years w/ some of the best defense NFL has EVER seen...all washed away b/c of horrendous performances by that crummy QB.

Not sure how many times i've been banned @ forums telling ppl he sucks. And yet, people still kept thinking he'll pan out. Glad his gone, glad the team moved on.

 

he put me off early cause he'd make some huge mistakes and he had trouble holding onto the the ball when sacked and tripped over his own feet on a lot of occasions....which I could not excuse as a firts and/or second year player. When he made certain passes i'd pray it wasn't an interception....i hoped he missed long so it would be just like a point, lol. Passes during the Boller era always scared me as they looked like 50/50 balls to could easily be bated down. 

 

Flacco even ran routes and caught balls better than Kyle his rookie year, haha. 

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he put me off early cause he'd make some huge mistakes and he had trouble holding onto the the ball when sacked and tripped over his own feet on a lot of occasions....which I could not excuse as a firts and/or second year player. When he made certain passes i'd pray it wasn't an interception....i hoped he missed long so it would be just like a point, lol. Passes during the Boller era always scared me as they looked like 50/50 balls to could easily be bated down.

Flacco even ran routes and caught balls better than Kyle his rookie year, haha.


That's why when people rip Flacco apart, I just don't get it. The sad part is that we actually had WORSE QB's than Boller.

The 03-06 team would have won AT LEAST one Super Bowl. I mean, in 03 we had Jamal rushing over 2000 yds coupled with that defense...if we had a COMPETANT qb we would have been a SB threat every year.
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Mason and Heap? McGahee?

Granted Mason was 05 and McGahee was 07.



I'll give you Mason but Heap was left out to dry by Boller and I think he's the reason Heaps career was so injury plagued. McGahee came in 07 basically a lost season and his replacement was brought in the next year. So 00-06 was the J Lew show with guest appearances from Todd Heap when we could get the ball to him.
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Keep in mind too that Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

I am pretty sure Boller at his best was better than Dilfer at his best.


Only problem with this argument is that Dilfer's floor was much higher than Boller's which in turn made him more valuable. Dilfer might not win you the game, but he wasn't going to lose it for you. Boller was like a poor man's Tony Romo (a very, very poor man). His highs were high but his lows were so low that it was detrimental to the franchise. Favre was the same way but his highs were so ridiculously high that it made up for it.
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I definitely think so.  In retrospect, keeping Dilfer in 01 IMO would have been better than signing Grbac.  McNair played maybe the worst postseason game of his career against the Colts - he had an INT and a fumble that turned into 6 points, and then a killer INT in the fourth quarter, not to mention we only had 3 drives go longer than 5 downs in that game.  We should have beaten the Colts, and we might have had a decent shot against the Patriots, you never know.  Put another way, from 2001-07 we finished 6th or better 4 times in terms of defensive PPG allowed.  In that same span we finished 20th or worse in terms of offensive PPG scored 4 times as well.  If we had even a middle of the pack offense, things probably would have been different, especially early on in the decade - the quarterback explosion didn't really happen until 2004, when Peyton went nuts, then all of a sudden you had Rivers, Brees, Brady, etc. enter the conversation.

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I remember in 06, the NFC was so weak, it was basically destined for an AFC team to win it all that year. Unfortunately, that was past McNairs prime, and the Colts defense got hot at the right time.  

 

But our 06 defense is vastly underrated in terms of all time great defenses.  Some of our others from that time period as well, but especially 2006.

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I remember in 06, the NFC was so weak, it was basically destined for an AFC team to win it all that year. Unfortunately, that was past McNairs prime, and the Colts defense got hot at the right time.  
 
But our 06 defense is vastly underrated in terms of all time great defenses.  Some of our others from that time period as well, but especially 2006.


There was a ton of speculation about McNair in that game though. He was past his prime, but he looked like a straight up zombie out there. I'm convinced that there was something going on his personal life that impacted that game.
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Flacco was a bit of a slow learner.  Had he been more of a young prodigy, the Ravens definitely would have gone to the SB sooner.  Not complaining, obviously not everyone can be a Peyton Manning.

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Flacco was a bit of a slow learner.  Had he been more of a young prodigy, the Ravens definitely would have gone to the SB sooner.  Not complaining, obviously not everyone can be a Peyton Manning.

Most rational thing I've heard about Flacco in a while. I think in the end he took over the offense when he was fully ready, with Cam losing his job because he wasn't confident enough in him.

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Most rational thing I've heard about Flacco in a while. I think in the end he took over the offense when he was fully ready, with Cam losing his job because he wasn't confident enough in him.

 

It helps that his receiving corps improved a lot over the years along with him.  Boldin, Torrey, Jacoby, Pitta and even Dickson.

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I feel like a great Ravens team was wasted on Boller. Looking back, Dilfer coulda been good enough. I'm not talking about just managing the game. Dilfer had a lot left to be really good. Billick put his career into Boller, and the rest is history.

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Flacco was a bit of a slow learner. Had he been more of a young prodigy, the Ravens definitely would have gone to the SB sooner. Not complaining, obviously not everyone can be a Peyton Manning.


I think Flacco has been ready to take over since year 3 (2010) and should've been given more freedom in his sophomore season. If you remember his ealier years, he was pretty efficient in 2 minute situations. Unfortunately, I've watched the AFCCG 09 a few times and if you watch, you'll see Cams imprints all over the route combinations. Nothing but deep outs, posts and other long developing plays. Plays like that will get a qb killed and don't help a team build momentum. When he's had control he's gone to intermediate plays with deep throws mixed in and I think we finally start to see the offense we've been waiting for, while hearing about these past off seasons. The more I think about it, the loss of Boldin shouldn't be that major. That should just mean more touches other guys. Use more two TE and two back systems. Pierce is a weapon who I'd love to see on the field with Rice in 3rd and short situations. I have a feeling this offense just gets more creative in the way guys are used while letting the young bucks with potential develop.
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I think Flacco has been ready to take over since year 3 (2010) and should've been given more freedom in his sophomore season. If you remember his ealier years, he was pretty efficient in 2 minute situations. Unfortunately, I've watched the AFCCG 09 a few times and if you watch, you'll see Cams imprints all over the route combinations. Nothing but deep outs, posts and other long developing plays. Plays like that will get a qb killed and don't help a team build momentum. When he's had control he's gone to intermediate plays with deep throws mixed in and I think we finally start to see the offense we've been waiting for, while hearing about these past off seasons. The more I think about it, the loss of Boldin shouldn't be that major. That should just mean more touches other guys. Use more two TE and two back systems. Pierce is a weapon who I'd love to see on the field with Rice in 3rd and short situations. I have a feeling this offense just gets more creative in the way guys are used while letting the young bucks with potential develop.

 

Yeah, Cam truly did a lot of damage to the Ravens' playoff prospects over the years. :(

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You can thank the dumb people(coaches and fans alike) that rooted for kyle boller for so long. B/c kind of homerism is what kept him in the uniform with the ravens for so long. We wasted some very good years w/ some of the best defense NFL has EVER seen...all washed away b/c of horrendous performances by that crummy QB.
Not sure how many times i've been banned @ forums telling ppl he sucks. And yet, people still kept thinking he'll pan out. Glad his gone, glad the team moved on.


3 yrs before we went after McNair
Sorry but 3 years on a first round draft pick is to be expected.
Homerism by fans is not why he got those 3 years
And sorry but if you refused to root for your teams first round pick as a rookie or second year player it makes you the dumb one for wanting that pick to be a wasted one as opposed to wanting it to have panned out
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3 yrs before we went after McNair
Sorry but 3 years on a first round draft pick is to be expected.
Homerism by fans is not why he got those 3 years
And sorry but if you refused to root for your teams first round pick as a rookie or second year player it makes you the dumb one for wanting that pick to be a wasted one as opposed to wanting it to have panned out

 

 

Got to love the e-trolls.   Keep up with the insult.   Something tells me you took it way too personal.

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This is a True statement, that still feels bittersweet...
I felt like we had a glimpse of how good this team could have been with decent to good QB play when we had McNair lead us to 13-3... If McNair had just a little more left in him and could have remained healthy .. Statistically, McNair's season was average at best, but his on field presence was huge....

I think if we had solid QB play with stats that match we could have did more in the following seasons:
2003 (10-6 record), 2004 (9-7 record), 2006 (13-3 record), 2007 (5-11 record)

It's unbelievable that our QBs barely combined for 3,500 passing yds per season, never threw for more than 21 combined TDs...

*2003 we had more rushing yards than passing yards as a team, with a loaded defense..

** 2007 was all around a bad season, but I chose it because after the 13-3 season with McNair, I was hoping Mark Clayton would build on his 900 yd season, and that McNair would then throw for more TDs and yards to give a more balanced attack to support the defense....
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I don't know if I agree that we would have won another Super Bowl in that time. Those defenses were fearsome and Jamal Lewis was a talented back, but that would have been in the same time period as the Patriots dynasty and Peyton Manning's prime. I'm not sure we could have overcome those teams even with a decent QB.

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Got to love the e-trolls.   Keep up with the insult.   Something tells me you took it way too personal.

Eh I agree 3 years on the first round Boller after what we went through with previous QBs wasn't due to homerism. We took a shot and it didn't pan out. Second time it did pan out. Have to realize Ravens will never ever be(and hasn't been) bad enough to get a QB prodigy without trading alot of picks. We like strong arm QBs who we can develop to fit with our run based offense. Some times they don't have the accuracy or mental strength to do what we need but thats the price we pay for having such a good organization that fields winning teams every year and even in our worst years never loses more than 11 games. 

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I don't know if I agree that we would have won another Super Bowl in that time. Those defenses were fearsome and Jamal Lewis was a talented back, but that would have been in the same time period as the Patriots dynasty and Peyton Manning's prime. I'm not sure we could have overcome those teams even with a decent QB.

Why say that when its easier to act like Boller was the only thing capable of stopping us.

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They were a dropped pass away from one in 2011

 

To be fair they were a dropped pass away from playing in a Super Bowl in 2011 and while I have every confidence we would have beaten the Giants, we truly don't know if it would have happened if Lee Evans had held onto the ball.

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This is a True statement, that still feels bittersweet...
I felt like we had a glimpse of how good this team could have been with decent to good QB play when we had McNair lead us to 13-3... If McNair had just a little more left in him and could have remained healthy .. Statistically, McNair's season was average at best, but his on field presence was huge....

I think if we had solid QB play with stats that match we could have did more in the following seasons:
2003 (10-6 record), 2004 (9-7 record), 2006 (13-3 record), 2007 (5-11 record)

It's unbelievable that our QBs barely combined for 3,500 passing yds per season, never threw for more than 21 combined TDs...

*2003 we had more rushing yards than passing yards as a team, with a loaded defense..

** 2007 was all around a bad season, but I chose it because after the 13-3 season with McNair, I was hoping Mark Clayton would build on his 900 yd season, and that McNair would then throw for more TDs and yards to give a more balanced attack to support the defense....

 

true.

 

 

i was happy with Joe's rookie season....if he had more poise he wouldn't have made that turnover over the middle. But his rookie season was better than Kyle Boller's body of work. Joe had better pocket awareness off the bat. 

 

but Flacco is the reason i joined this forum cause we were 2-3 in 2008 and I was down south and looking for a place to vent with fans of my same team. I wanted Troy Smith to get in the game since our offensive line was bad and he was mobile. But after the 2-3 start Joe flacco got better and was managing the game well IMO. Come playoff time I was like we need to let Boller go, haha. 

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Crazy thing is in spite of the Boller era we had the best home record in the NFL most of last decade, haha. 

 

Pats got crazy hott regular season wise later in the decade and surpassed us 2000-2010 best home record percent-wise overall. Colts passed us too once Peyton Manning came into his own. 

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