CB Jimmy Smith

[flynismo]

And once again you are wrong. When you see players line up in man coverage with two safeties deep. It's obvious what the coverage is. I'm sorry if you don't understand that. What Jimmy meant is people like you have no idea what the coverage is because you think Huff should be playing man on a TE lined up on the opposite side of the field while Matt Elam is playing some magical  centerfield position where he covers every single person the in End Zone.

 

So Elam wasn't supposed to cover all those guys that he was surrounded by? I thought that was the plan...

[gabefergy]

So Elam wasn't supposed to cover all those guys that he was surrounded by? I thought that was the plan...

only Ed Reed can do that :D

[flynismo]

And I will tell you again you have no idea what you're talking about. You have absolutely no clue who was supposed to do what and whether somebody played the wrong coverage. Could you please realize at some point that you are just assuming stuff based on what you think went on? How hard is that to understand? This is exactly what Jimmy meant, people on the outside have absolutely no clue what's going on in terms of coverages and the breakdowns. One playing the wrong coverage and you make the wrong assumption. But whatever, you'll never understand it seems. Keep scouting those defenses, Rex Ryan Jr. it's so simple that players even have to point out to you that you have no clue what's going on there, yet the man behind the keyboard who in all likelihood never played football before knows better, let alone at a competitive level.

Can you analyze all the coverages we played on defense please? I'm honestly interested in knowing that. You could make a lot of money with that. But hey who needs money right. Nothing beats talking about how big of an expert you are. You telling somebody how obvious playcall x was doesn't make it true or any truer the more you repeat it. You have no idea, you are assuming something. Why don't you understand that?

 

Isn't that exactly what opposing offenses do to our defense? They look at the formation, who's lined up where, etc, and then make assumptions based on what they see?

 

Granted, nobody here is Peyton, but that isn't really the point...

[izvoodoo]

Guys, it's preseason.  They wanted to see how much Zone Elam could handle.

 

 

It's preseason.  Everyone take a breath.

[arnie_uk]

Both safeties were in zone.

[codizzle]

Both safeties were in zone.

You are completely guessing and you're obviously wrong and you look silly

Both safeties were in man

[izvoodoo]

You are completely guessing and you're obviously wrong and you look silly

Both safeties were in man

EVERYONE WAS IN THE MAN ZONE!

[berad]

So when Pees said Jimmy had a rough game and is not playing correct technique is that the safeties fault, too?

 

Because Huff/Elam may have left Smith out to dry on the TD but Jimmy did not have a good game.

[izvoodoo]

Gently, people. Treat each other kindly and avoid insults. You can disagree without getting nasty.

Thank you for bringing some reason.

[flynismo]

OMG...

 

Read this before posting please

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/types-of-defensive-coverage-in-football.html

 

Still need help? Ask Howie Long!

The simplest way to recognize a zone defense is to observe how many defenders line up deep in the secondary. If two or more defensive players are aligned deep (12 to 15 yards off the line of scrimmage), the defense is in a zone.

[codizzle]

EVERYONE WAS IN THE MAN ZONE!

In fact they still in the man zone

[beanfigger]

The entire secondary has been suspect in coverage.  All of them have, so it is silly to just try and pick and choose who made a mistake on each particular play.  I cannot wait to see Webb back and watch what our secondary will actually look like with defensive calls that are actually realistic for the real season.

[The Raven]

And I will tell you again you have no idea what you're talking about. You have absolutely no clue who was supposed to do what and whether somebody played the wrong coverage. Could you please realize at some point that you are just assuming stuff based on what you think went on? How hard is that to understand? This is exactly what Jimmy meant, people on the outside have absolutely no clue what's going on in terms of coverages and the breakdowns. One playing the wrong coverage and you make the wrong assumption. But whatever, you'll never understand it seems. Keep scouting those defenses, Rex Ryan Jr. it's so simple that players even have to point out to you that you have no clue what's going on there, yet the man behind the keyboard who in all likelihood never played football before knows better, let alone at a competitive level.

Can you analyze all the coverages we played on defense please? I'm honestly interested in knowing that. You could make a lot of money with that. But hey who needs money right. Nothing beats talking about how big of an expert you are. You telling somebody how obvious playcall x was doesn't make it true or any truer the more you repeat it. You have no idea, you are assuming something. Why don't you understand that?

 

It was a simple 2 man under. Any idiot who plays madden could probably tell you that much. It's peewee football stuff.

 

Also, you don't have to be a coach or a pro scout to recognize a coverage shell. It's really not rocket science.

[5aiah]

The Ravens can really mix it up and their coverage shells can be hard to determine. Our Quarters shell can look and act like  2 man under at times and a few of you have said things like if there are two safeties in zone and blah blah blah. Basically unless someone has all-22 and has a sufficient knowledge of coverage shells(and Ravens tendencies while in those shells) I think you all would be better off helping each other out instead of attacking each other. There are also different zones that safeties can play besides just deep half zones(Ravens safeties do it more than others). Detailed stuff like this is my favorite part of the game, so I'm asking if anyone can fully identify the coverage shell(and everyone's assignment) on this play because no one in this thread seems to agree? 

[beanfigger]

The Ravens can really mix it up and their coverage shells can be hard to determine. Our Quarters shell can look and act like 2 man under at times and a few of you have said things like if there are two safeties in zone and blah blah blah. Basically unless someone has all-22 and has a sufficient knowledge of coverage shells(and Ravens tendencies while in those shells) I think you all would be better off helping each other out instead of attacking each other. There are also different zones that safeties can play besides just deep half zones(Ravens safeties do it more than others). Detailed stuff like this is my favorite part of the game, so I'm asking if anyone can fully identify the coverage shell(and everyone's assignment) on this play because no one in this thread seems to agree?

Everyone can identify the coverage, which is obvious by reading this thread, duh.

[gabefergy]

The Ravens can really mix it up and their coverage shells can be hard to determine. Our Quarters shell can look and act like 2 man under at times and a few of you have said things like if there are two safeties in zone and blah blah blah. Basically unless someone has all-22 and has a sufficient knowledge of coverage shells(and Ravens tendencies while in those shells) I think you all would be better off helping each other out instead of attacking each other. There are also different zones that safeties can play besides just deep half zones(Ravens safeties do it more than others). Detailed stuff like this is my favorite part of the game, so I'm asking if anyone can fully identify the coverage shell(and everyone's assignment) on this play because no one in this thread seems to agree?

Its in the End zone so while quarters is possible, the man coverage on every receiver would suggest it is simply 2 man under.

[5aiah]

Everyone can identify the coverage, which is obvious by reading this thread, duh.

Ah, just read the last page which was a bunch of arguing and misinformation about coverage shells. Lol.

[The Raven]

The Ravens can really mix it up and their coverage shells can be hard to determine. Our Quarters shell can look and act like  2 man under at times and a few of you have said things like if there are two safeties in zone and blah blah blah. Basically unless someone has all-22 and has a sufficient knowledge of coverage shells(and Ravens tendencies while in those shells) I think you all would be better off helping each other out instead of attacking each other. There are also different zones that safeties can play besides just deep half zones(Ravens safeties do it more than others). Detailed stuff like this is my favorite part of the game, so I'm asking if anyone can fully identify the coverage shell(and everyone's assignment) on this play because no one in this thread seems to agree? 

 

Just using this thought process here.

 

Cornerbacks are on the line of scrimmage, and they each cover their man one on one. Elam covers one half of the end zone. Jimmy covered Julio Jones with outside leverage, probably expecting inside help. I couldn't find Huff pre-snap as he was lined up off the screen, but I saw him come up to help Brown with the tight end when the ball was thrown. Following this line of thought, it should be easy to assume that it's a two man under look. It's simple. Man coverage underneath + two deep safeties = Two man under.

 

Going to drop it at that, because it is really not worth going over again.

[5aiah]

Its in the End zone so while quarters is possible, the man coverage on every receiver would suggest it is simply 2 man under.

Yeah, I barely remember the play and don't have it in front of me, i just remember Jimmy playing man free to the outside and Julio running probably his favorite route for an easy play. I do wonder about that decision to have Jimmy do that considering Julio is a master at that. Probably just testing his ability I hope.

[5aiah]

Just using this thought process here.

 

Cornerbacks are on the line of scrimmage, and they each cover their man one on one. Elam covers one half of the end zone. Jimmy covered Julio Jones with outside leverage, probably expecting inside help. I couldn't find Huff pre-snap as he was lined up off the screen, but I saw him come up to help Brown with the tight end when the ball was thrown. Following this line of thought, it should be easy to assume that it's a two man under look. It's simple. Man coverage underneath + two deep safeties = Two man under.

 

Going to drop it at that, because it is really not worth going over again.

Yeah that's good enough, that's what I was looking for.

[beanfigger]

Ah, just read the last page which was a bunch of arguing and misinformation about coverage shells. Lol.

Yeah, this was a mess. It just depends on which player each poster felt comfortable throwing under the bus and which player they wanted to defend. It was a bad play call and poor execution all around by the entire defense. I expect better performances from the players and coaches when it matters, although I am also grateful we don't have Julio on our schedule this season.

[gabefergy]

Yeah, I barely remember the play and don't have it in front of me, i just remember Jimmy playing man free to the outside and Julio running probably his favorite route for an easy play. I do wonder about that decision to have Jimmy do that considering Julio is a master at that. Probably just testing his ability I hope.

Well, I can't believe he is expected to lock down Julio without having any inside help. If Huff drops into his zone instead of doubling the TE coming across Ryan's throw becomes much more difficult. He probably ends up trying to get it to his TE who had a step on Brown.

[flynismo]

Well, I can't believe he is expected to lock down Julio without having any inside help. If Huff drops into his zone instead of doubling the TE coming across Ryan's throw becomes much more difficult. He probably ends up trying to get it to his TE who had a step on Brown.

That's what I dont get either. The whole point of bracketing is to take out the two WR on the outside. But the thing is, it's pretty well known that the way to attack that coverage is "pass short run long", or just throw right up the middle downfield...Huff was caught in a Catch 22. The TE will almost always be the guy the offense looks to in that situation; Huff took a gamble and left Jimmy out to dry. Let Brown do his job and cover the TE; don't leave your CB hanging, especially when he is playing his man expecting you to be behind him.

[flynismo]

Just using this thought process here.

 

Cornerbacks are on the line of scrimmage, and they each cover their man one on one. Elam covers one half of the end zone. Jimmy covered Julio Jones with outside leverage, probably expecting inside help. I couldn't find Huff pre-snap as he was lined up off the screen, but I saw him come up to help Brown with the tight end when the ball was thrown. Following this line of thought, it should be easy to assume that it's a two man under look. It's simple. Man coverage underneath + two deep safeties = Two man under.

 

Going to drop it at that, because it is really not worth going over again.

 

I dunno how much simpler it is to explain than that right there.

And if we know it is two man under, then we have a very good idea of what everyone's role on the play is, especially in hindsight

[flynismo]

I do wonder about that decision to have Jimmy do that considering Julio is a master at that. Probably just testing his ability I hope.

 

The whole idea behind that play was for Jimmy to rough Julio up a little at the line, do something - anything - to slow him down and force Ryan to check it down to the TE somewhere short of the goalline before the rush gets to him.

And Jimmy can get as physical as he wants, because even if Julio throws him a beatdown and blows by him, Huff was supposed to be behind the play and jump any pass thrown over Jimmy's head.

And that's why we are saying that Huff is the one to blame for the TD, not Jimmy or Elam.

[gabefergy]

That's what I dont get either. The whole point of bracketing is to take out the two WR on the outside. But the thing is, it's pretty well known that the way to attack that coverage is "pass short run long", or just throw right up the middle downfield...Huff was caught in a Catch 22. The TE will almost always be the guy the offense looks to in that situation; Huff took a gamble and left Jimmy out to dry. Let Brown do his job and cover the TE; don't leave your CB hanging, especially when he is playing his man expecting you to be behind him.

Exactly, I don't want to say that Huff necessarily made a big mistake as it was a judgement call. He saw the TE that was coming open underneath and took that away. However, that leaves Jimmy extremely vulnerable. I guess he was hoping the pass-rush could get to Ryan before Jones could come uncovered. I agree that in hindsight it makes more sense to let Brown do his job in coverage. Even if a pass is completed to the TE there he still has to get into the EZ after the catch.

[flynismo]

Exactly, I don't want to say that Huff necessarily made a big mistake as it was a judgement call. He saw the TE that was coming open underneath and took that away. However, that leaves Jimmy extremely vulnerable. I guess he was hoping the pass-rush could get to Ryan before Jones could come uncovered. I agree that in hindsight it makes more sense to let Brown do his job in coverage. Even if a pass is completed to the TE there he still has to get into the EZ after the catch.

Kinda funny how we just posted pretty much the exact same thing at the exact same time (the two posts above)

 

That means either:

 

1. We are mindreaders

 

or

 

2. These things are really that obvious

 

Obviously #2....which is why it annoys the crap out of me when people question your knowledge just because you do not agree with their opinion.

 

ok, off to stir the pot over on the Steeler boards now...

[baltimoreravensfan4life]

 

Again you're guessing. It's preseason, every starter gets pulled at some point. There are absolutely no reports that he got pulled or made a mistake on that play. I could care less, if I'm wrong I will admit it. I'm not defending Huff or bashing Elam because I like or hate the other guy.

I just want to point this out because I have read all of your comments about whose responsibilities where whose. You're being a hypocrite because you're saying that those two guys(bullrush and whoever the other one was) have no idea what they're talking about and that they don't know the coverage assignments, but in one post, I saw you say something along the lines of, "I can say with 100% certainty that Huff was asked to play the tight end because he's an experienced safety and knows what he's doing." So, you want to tell them they don't know the coverage or what the design was, but then act like you do? How ironic.

I'm going to have to go with what bullrush and the other guy were saying. It is more than likely that Huff was meant to play in a two high safety with man underneath. Jimmy was clearly playing far to the outside to prevent getting beat by a fade or any outside route. There was meant to be a safety there on the inside, and there is no way you leave a rookie safety to cover the entire middle of the end zone. Huff gambled and guessed wrong.

[flynismo]

 

 

I just want to point this out because I have read all of your comments about whose responsibilities where whose. You're being a hypocrite because you're saying that those two guys(bullrush and whoever the other one was) have no idea what they're talking about and that they don't know the coverage assignments, but in one post, I saw you say something along the lines of, "I can say with 100% certainty that Huff was asked to play the tight end because he's an experienced safety and knows what he's doing." So, you want to tell them they don't know the coverage or what the design was, but then act like you do? How ironic.

I'm going to have to go with what bullrush and the other guy were saying. It is more than likely that Huff was meant to play in a two high safety with man underneath. Jimmy was clearly playing far to the outside to prevent getting beat by a fade or any outside route. There was meant to be a safety there on the inside, and there is no way you leave a rookie safety to cover the entire middle of the end zone. Huff gambled and guessed wrong.

 

 

Pretty sure Bullrush was the one calling everyone out for being able to identify the obvious...

[baltimoreravensfan4life]

I really hate how people are so quick to call Jimmy a bust. He really isn't. We've all seen the potential that he has. It's sky high, and he's shown it in the playoffs on the biggest of stages. 

I just wish people would understand a few things. First, cornerback is not an easy position to play. Name a rookie who came in and instantly dominated. You will not find one. I only say that because people are like, "He's a first round draft pick. He should have been good since his rookie year." Secondly, Jimmy was unfortunate and had a lockout during his rookie year. He then got injured and was forced to miss time. He was also injured last year. His time has been really limited on the field. Cornerback is a position that is a learn on the job type position. I thoroughly believe that if Jimmy could have started all 32 regular season games thus far that he would be a great cornerback. Thirdly, there are plenty of examples of first round cornerbacks who took time to develop. Revis didn't become Revis Island until his third season, and he was the 19th overall pick. Patrick Peterson was the fifth overall pick, but he wasn't that great as a rookie cornerback. Hell, he's not even that great. He's just a tremendous athlete who can use his insane recovery speed to mask poor technique and coverage. Prince Amakamura was the fifteenth overall pick and he didn't shut anyone down from day one. Even in his second year he had a very up and down season. The secondary was considered the Giants biggest weakness. Lardarius Webb took three years to develop into a number one cornerback. Cary Williams took five years to even become a starter. (Note: I realize Webb was a third round pick and Williams was a seventh round pick.)

I also thoroughly believe the coaching staff is using Jimmy incorrectly. He's 6'2" and 210 pounds. At what point do you not think to jam the hell out of opposing receivers? Look at Seattle- Sherman and Browner are both over 6' tall and they're almost exclusively used in press man coverage. It seems to have worked out well for them. I will never understand why Pees insists on this soft man coverage. I get you want to prevent the big play over the top, but he's costing the Ravens more yards by putting Jimmy so far off the line of scrimmage. Jimmy is a big corner. No big corners have fluid hips. It is very tough for them to flip their hips and run in coverage when they're playing off. It is also very difficult for them to drive to the ball or cut and make sharp movements. That is exactly what off man coverage asks you to do, and it's not helping Jimmy. The time you never hear Jimmy's name is in press man coverage. I was watching the Falcons game and there was one play where Jimmy jammed his man so hard that he nearly fell over.

I understand that the coaching staff may want Jimmy to develop a full arsenal of coverage skills and techniques, but at some point you have to just let the man play to his strength. In college, he was targeted like 13 times in press man coverage, with less than half of those going for completions. Why is he not in press man coverage more?

I'm also really tired of hearing people say ridiculous things like Brown and Jackson are better than Smith. Oh really? Is that why they're getting picked up by backup quarterbacks and receivers? Third stringers at that. I also hate how people aren't getting on Graham for not playing all that well this preseason. Jimmy is just the convenient target. He didn't even play poorly against the Falcons and he played quite well against Vincent Jackson. Against the Falcons, the first completion was in zone coverage. Julio just found the soft spot, yet Jimmy receives the blame. The second one was just a great route by Julio, but Jimmy was right on his back. The third was a miscommunication in the secondary. Jimmy was clearly expecting bracket coverage in the end zone and didn't get it. I believe Huff left his zone and left Jimmy out there in poor position. There's a reason Jimmy was so hopping mad. The throw to Kevin Cone was just a perfect throw. What do you do there? Jimmy was right in his hip pocket and even turned to track the ball. You really cannot defend a perfect pass. The fifth pass is a confusing one to me. It looked like the Ravens were tipping their hand on a blitz and were letting a man go free underneath. I thought Jimmy followed his man(Douglas), but had to come back in to tackle the open underneath route(Davis). I honestly don't know the assignment, but I don't think that was Jimmy's man. In my opinion, Jimmy had a very solid game and was responsible for two out of five of the catches people assign blame for. Graham, on the other hand, didn't play stellar even when covering Harry Douglas during the Falcons game and Mike Williams and Kevin Ogletree during the Tampa Bay game. Jimmy has the much higher ceiling. Graham has reached his ceiling and Jimmy, right now, is right there with Graham on the skill set.

I am truly looking forward to seeing Jimmy start this season and be able to learn on the job? Will he get beat sometimes? Yes, he will, but then again, so did Lardarius Webb in his breakout season. That's all part of playing cornerback, but to be honest, the Ravens will be better in the long run.

I am done my rant, but I wish people would open up their eyes a little more instead of calling him out all the time.