CB Jimmy Smith

[codizzle]

He's obviously tired of people blaming him or saying he had a poor game, when it was probably somebody else in the secondary that messed up. Elam would be my guess but I didn't watch the tape yet, will do so tonight.

Wouldn't blame every play on Jimmy but he got beat multiple times in that game. Can't say they were all someone else's fault

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I agree that Jimmy's been beat quite a bit and has to take responsibility for it - but in fairness I also don't think he's being used to his strengths.

 

He looks most comfortable up at the line of scrimmage playing press man. He's a bigger CB and is most comfortable when he can get a guy off his route/timing - yet it seems to me he's lined up 5-10 yards off his guy most of the time.

 

I know Pees philosophy is to not give up the pass over the top even if that means allowing a few underneath completions. The problem is Jimmy isn't the quickest guy, so savvy route runners and more athletic receivers can get behind him that way. He needs to be allowed to get his hands on guys and bump them off...

 

Granted, its not an excuse for him - he needs to learn to play well in different coverage. But my opinion is, they should put him in positions to succeed to get his confidence up and work him in to other situations. The Super Bowl is a perfect example where he was allowed to play physical at the line and he came up huge for us.

[GrimCoconut]

I agree that Jimmy's been beat quite a bit and has to take responsibility for it - but in fairness I also don't think he's being used to his strengths.

He looks most comfortable up at the line of scrimmage playing press man. He's a bigger CB and is most comfortable when he can get a guy off his route/timing - yet it seems to me he's lined up 5-10 yards off his guy most of the time.

I know Pees philosophy is to not give up the pass over the top even if that means allowing a few underneath completions. The problem is Jimmy isn't the quickest guy, so savvy route runners and more athletic receivers can get behind him that way. He needs to be allowed to get his hands on guys and bump them off...

Granted, its not an excuse for him - he needs to learn to play well in different coverage. But my opinion is, they should put him in positions to succeed to get his confidence up and work him in to other situations. The Super Bowl is a perfect example where he was allowed to play physical at the line and he came up huge for us.

That's just it. Jimmy apparently told Rob Long from 105.7 during his rookie year that he doesn't like press man coverage.

[Moderator 3]

He must have changed. They got him on film last year asking Pees to let him play press.

[GrimCoconut]

He must have changed. They got him on film last year asking Pees to let him play press.

Weird. I'll believe the film more than Rob then. I personally always felt like Jimmy was ideal for press until like last week when I heard that on the radio.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Weird. I'll believe the film more than Rob then. I personally always felt like Jimmy was ideal for press until like last week when I heard that on the radio.

 

My guess is that was the right "team first" answer. If he says yeah, I prefer press man but coach wont let me do it - hes going against the team and probably stirs up some controversy, although minor.

 

Apparently he's personally asked to play more press man, and was probably told that it wasn't going to happen for whatever reason. My guess is he just didn't want to put himself on record disagreeing with his coach. If he answers yes I prefer playing press and I think im better at it, the logical next question from a reporter is "Well then why aren't you lined up that way more often?"

 

That becomes a more difficult question to answer. It was probably just easier to say, nope youre wrong - I don't even like it.

[cobrajet]

I have full confidence in Jimmy, he has all the tools to become a shutdown corner, he just needs playing time and find his zone. He's started only 5 games in his career, you don't become a great corner with no playing time, no matter how talented you are. Webb struggled BIGTIME his first 2 years, in his 3rd season where he became a starter the lights went on. Now he's one of the better corners in the league.

 

I like to compare Jimmy to Amukamara from the Giants. They have the same skill set, both went in the 1st round in the same year and they both struggled at first, whether it's on the field (being raw, elite athletes that don't understand the game) or off (injured). Amukamara wasn't that good his first 2 seasons, barely played. The Giants allowed him to get a season under his belt as a starter and now he's by far their best corner and from what I'm reading might be Pro Bowl bound this year. Jimmy needs to start a full season, he's not gonna learn a whole lot as a 3rd corner. I know all the corners will play a lot but being on the field on every down, in 2 WR sets like every good starting corner is so much different from getting on the field only when the offense lines up with 3 or more receivers. He needs to start for us full time this year. Corey should be the #3. He had a few good games last season no doubt about it, but he's not the future and he's not a franchise type corner, I want Jimmy to be that guy because he has all the tools to be great and he's still very young. Corey can be a great backup or a stopgap guy at CB once Webb/Smith go down.

Sorry, IMHO Corey Graham is light years ahead of Jimmy Smith. Webb and Graham better be #1 and #2 or we are going to be in a world of hurt. Jimmy gets beat like a dog. I hate to be harsh, but the Ravens had me scared to death when they used him in the playoffs. He looked bad at times on the field last season, and I think he may have gotten lucky in the playoffs because he looks horrible this preseason so far. I actually think Asa Jackson has played better than Jimmy, too bad he will be suspended 8 games because Asa will have no chance to get experience on the field and that will hurt him.

[izvoodoo]

Sorry, IMHO Corey Graham is light years ahead of Jimmy Smith. Webb and Graham better be #1 and #2 or we are going to be in a world of hurt. Jimmy gets beat like a dog. I hate to be harsh, but the Ravens had me scared to death when they used him in the playoffs. He looked bad at times on the field last season, and I think he may have gotten lucky in the playoffs because he looks horrible this preseason so far. I actually think Asa Jackson has played better than Jimmy, too bad he will be suspended 8 games because Asa will have no chance to get experience on the field and that will hurt him

Corey's better, but 1,2 and 3 don't matter now adays.  They're all going to play.  And play a lot.

[GrimCoconut]

My guess is that was the right "team first" answer. If he says yeah, I prefer press man but coach wont let me do it - hes going against the team and probably stirs up some controversy, although minor.

Apparently he's personally asked to play more press man, and was probably told that it wasn't going to happen for whatever reason. My guess is he just didn't want to put himself on record disagreeing with his coach. If he answers yes I prefer playing press and I think im better at it, the logical next question from a reporter is "Well then why aren't you lined up that way more often?"

That becomes a more difficult question to answer. It was probably just easier to say, nope youre wrong - I don't even like it.

That's possible but the DC back then was Chuck so I'm not sure if that's the case or not. I'm definitely confused.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

That's possible but the DC back then was Chuck so I'm not sure if that's the case or not. I'm definitely confused.

 

He asked to play more press last year, when Pees was our DC. And I thought you said the interview was like last week, and Pees is still the DC.

 

Pagano was 2 years ago and nothing I saw being discussed was from 2 years ago unless I missed something. now I think im confused.

[GrimCoconut]

He asked to play more press last year, when Pees was our DC. And I thought you said the interview was like last week, and Pees is still the DC.

Pagano was 2 years ago and nothing I saw being discussed was from 2 years ago unless I missed something. now I think im confused.

Nah. I said his rookie year, which is when Chuck was the DC. It's not a big deal. Just two conflicting stories. I'll go with the one that has Jimmy on tape saying he prefers press to the one of some reporter, though lol.

[izvoodoo]

That's possible but the DC back then was Chuck so I'm not sure if that's the case or not. I'm definitely confused.

Maybe Rob is just full of it >.>

[GrimCoconut]

Maybe Rob is just full of it >.>

Yup. As I said, I'll go with the proof and there's proof of Jimmy saying he prefers press. Lol.

[ellicottraven]

Well, Jimmy Smith may as well be Jimmy Doss and Tandon Doss may as well be called Tandon Smith. These two players with all the potential just disappoint when it counts. They have the size, the talent and the potential to be stars, but for reasons unbeknownst to mankind, they just don't capitalize!

[GrimCoconut]

Well, Jimmy Smith may as well be Jimmy Doss and Tandon Doss may as well be called Tandon Smith. These two players with all the potential just disappoint when it counts. They have the size, the talent and the potential to be stars, but for reasons unbeknownst to mankind, they just don't capitalize!

This is untrue. Jimmy actually had some impact plays on the field. Tandon has yet to make a significant impact. Smith isn't a pro bowl player or even close to it but I'm sick of people acting like he's a bum.

[ellicottraven]

This is untrue. Jimmy actually had some impact plays on the field. Tandon has yet to make a significant impact. Smith isn't a pro bowl player or even close to it but I'm sick of people acting like he's a bum.

Jimmy Smith is definitely not a bum nor did I imply he was. Your implication of Tandon Doss may be that of a bum, which I didn't state. While it is true Tandon has not played in as many games as Jimmy has, but, if you look at this preseason, there is a distinct similarity between the two in their unrealized potential. That is the point I was really making....

[GrimCoconut]

Jimmy Smith is definitely not a bum nor did I imply he was. Your implication of Tandon Doss may be that of a bum, which I didn't state. While it is true Tandon has not played in as many games as Jimmy has, but, if you look at this preseason, there is a distinct similarity between the two in their unrealized potential. That is the point I was really making....

I'm not referring to your comment when I say people call him a bum. If I did I would have singled you out yet I didn't. Perhaps my comment implied it and if so my bad. I'm not implying anything about Doss.

I'm just really sick of people saying he played like trash because quite frankly this saint everyone seems to be riding in Chykie Brown hasn't looked too good either. He had an awful game against Tampa and wasn't that good against Atlanta. Smith had a pretty darn good game against Tampa and had a very rough game against Atlanta.

Jimmy has actually proven to be at least an average player on the field. People are blinded by their dislike for this guy to see it. I'm frankly sick of it.

Also, it's preseason for the love of God.

[easternshore97]

Also, it's preseason for the love of God.

The 2008 Detroit Lions that went 4-0 in the pre-season like this statement

[ellicottraven]

I'm not referring to your comment when I say people call him a bum. If I did I would have singled you out yet I didn't. Perhaps my comment implied it and if so my bad. I'm not implying anything about Doss.

I'm just really sick of people saying he played like trash because write frankly this saint everyone sense to be riding in Chykie Brown hasn't looked too good either. He had a good awful game against Tampa and want that good against Atlanta. Smith had a pretty darn good game against Tampa and had a very rough game against Atlanta.

Jimmy has actually proven to be at least an average player on the field. People are blinded by their dislike for this guy to see it. I'm frankly sick of it.

Also, it's preseason for the love of God.

That's fine. However, the fact remains that there is justification in people being fed up with Jimmy Smith. You frankly admitted that he is average at best. However, you fail to mention that we don't sign 1st rounders to be average in Baltimore. We expect them to be better than that. Therefore some consternation regarding Jimmy must be expected right?

[GrimCoconut]

That's fine. However, the fact remains that there is justification in people being fed up with Jimmy Smith. You frankly admitted that he is average at best. However, you fail to mention that we don't sign 1st rounders to be average in Baltimore. We expect them to be better than that. Therefore some consternation regarding Jimmy must be expected right?

He's average at worst not average at best. I agree that his floor is average. I recognize the disappointment but one preseason game doesn't make his future. Smith has been riddled with inconsistency. I agree with that. It's all mental with him. I won't agree with the notion that he's horrible and that's what I feel like that's what's being implied around here.

People did the same thing to Joe. They would throw him under the bus. I feel like this is the same thing. Jimmy has made some terrific plays that show a taste of his potential. That interception he had an inch off the turf against Brady and his play against Crabtree show his potential. I know this is what frustrates people the most. It's just tiring because I feel like those who act like he's already a bust are making emotional comments without thinking.

[izvoodoo]

He's average at worst not average at best. I agree that his floor is average. I recognize the disappointment but one preseason game doesn't make his future. Smith has been riddled with inconsistency. I agree with that. It's all mental with him. I won't agree with the notion that he's horrible and that's what I feel like that's what's being implied around here.

People did the same thing to Joe. They would throw him under the bus. I feel like this is the same thing. Jimmy has made some terrific plays that show a taste of his potential. That interception he had an inch off the turf against Brady and his play against Crabtree show his potential. I know this is what frustrates people the most. It's just tiring because I feel like those who act like he's already a bust are making emotional comments without thinking.

I was more worried that he was late on his assignment and got beat on that fade. His coverage on Julio was fine, most of it came against single high cover 3.  Which we ran like 4 times in a row.

 

 

[codizzle]

One of you PFF people post Jimmy's preseason ranking..

Let's just say he's ranked lower than #35 (out of 132 graded CB's)

[gabefergy]

I was more worried that he was late on his assignment and got beat on that fade. His coverage on Julio was fine, most of it came against single high cover 3.  Which we ran like 4 times in a row.

How do you defend a perfectly thrown fade? It's basically impossible without drawing a foul.

[Bullrush]

Sorry, IMHO Corey Graham is light years ahead of Jimmy Smith. Webb and Graham better be #1 and #2 or we are going to be in a world of hurt. Jimmy gets beat like a dog. I hate to be harsh, but the Ravens had me scared to death when they used him in the playoffs. He looked bad at times on the field last season, and I think he may have gotten lucky in the playoffs because he looks horrible this preseason so far. I actually think Asa Jackson has played better than Jimmy, too bad he will be suspended 8 games because Asa will have no chance to get experience on the field and that will hurt him.

He's barely getting any playing time, and you can't blame every catch on him, there's a lot of other stuff going on that people don't know. He needs playing time in order to make progress, every young guy has to go through that, they're growing pains and teams usually deal with it in order to help the player to reach his potential. Right now Corey might be the safer option but I don't see any upside with Corey. Jimmy has Pro Bowl upside and lockdown skills. He's not gonna get there unless we let him be a full time corner. And Corey is not exactly a rock solid starter either, he hasn't proven that yet. He's been a backup and special teamer for 5-6 years, he had some good games last season but also some that weren't exactly great. So we don't know what we have in Corey just yet. Jimmy had a great game in week one, had a great camp, let's not act like he's been struggling the whole time, and let's not ignore all that just because of a couple "bad" plays in a pre season game where it wasn't just his fault, the secondary as a unit messed up. Yet everybody is calling him out when the other guys messed up just like he did or even more than he did, guys like Corey or Elam.

 

He wouldn't go on record saying that the reports of him getting beat like a drum are wrong unless he really wanted to let people know that it's not the case. And I don't think he's making excuses, he would lose the entire locker room if he did that. They all know what he said is true so he can make those type of comments, without really calling anybody out but still letting everybody know it's not fair to call him out like that because like he said they don't know what's going on with the coverages.

[izvoodoo]

How do you defend a perfectly thrown fade? It's basically impossible without drawing a foul.

You have to bump the WR off the route and force him really wide, so the ball has to be in your play or out of bounds.

 

You can jump the route, but that's not good coverage.

 

That was a pretty pretty throw.

 

The one that really worried me was when he was late on the outside coverage.  I want to see him break better and read his keys better.  He'll round into form as the season goes on.

[Bullrush]

Am looking at some of the plays.

 

1. 1-10-ATL 44 (5:03) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 11-J.Jones to BAL 24 for 32 yards (26-M.Elam).
2. 1-10-BAL 24 (4:22) 2-M.Ryan pass short middle to 11-J.Jones to BAL 9 for 15 yards (22-J.Smith).

 

The first one was definitely on Elam. Jimmy gave cushion, had deep coverage, Elam was underneath and supposed to play zone there. The second one was on Daryl Smith who dropped in zone coverage to make sure the inside pass/slant doesn't connect, Jimmy was on the outside trying to prevent Jones from beating him deep.

1. 3-8-BAL 8 (2:58) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short middle to 11-J.Jones for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

This one was on Elam as well, he wasn't covering ANYBODY on that play, just trying to guess where the ball was going to end up. Jimmy looked pissed off and he sort of gave Elam that look who just turned away and didn't say a thing. You can even hear Jon Ogden say "Jimmy was expecting inside help there because he was on the outside". He gave Jones the inside because Elam was supposed to make a pick there or a deflection.

 

Outside of those plays I don't see anything where Smith supposedly looked bad or messed up or got beat like a drum. The 3 plays I mentioned, in my opinion, he had nothing to do with in terms of giving up those catches. 3 plays where he expected inside help, it didn't happen. So put that on Elam and Daryl if you're gonna blame anybody. It definitely does not look like Jimmy messed up there, he did his job there.

 

Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm wrong.

[gabefergy]

Am looking at some of the plays.

 

1. 1-10-ATL 44 (5:03) 2-M.Ryan pass deep middle to 11-J.Jones to BAL 24 for 32 yards (26-M.Elam).
2. 1-10-BAL 24 (4:22) 2-M.Ryan pass short middle to 11-J.Jones to BAL 9 for 15 yards (22-J.Smith).

 

The first one was definitely on Elam. Jimmy gave cushion, had deep coverage, Elam was underneath and supposed to play zone there. The second one was on Daryl Smith who dropped in zone coverage to make sure the inside pass/slant doesn't connect, Jimmy was on the outside trying to prevent Jones from beating him deep.

1. 3-8-BAL 8 (2:58) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short middle to 11-J.Jones for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

This one was on Elam as well, he wasn't covering ANYBODY on that play, just trying to guess where the ball was going to end up. Jimmy looked pissed off and he sort of gave Elam that look who just turned away and didn't say a thing. You can even hear Jon Ogden say "Jimmy was expecting inside help there because he was on the outside". He gave Jones the inside because Elam was supposed to make a pick there or a deflection.

 

Outside of those plays I don't see anything where Smith supposedly looked bad or messed up or got beat like a drum. The 3 plays I mentioned, in my opinion, he had nothing to do with in terms of giving up those catches. 3 plays where he expected inside help, it didn't happen. So put that on Elam and Daryl if you're gonna blame anybody. It definitely does not look like Jimmy messed up there, he did his job there.

 

Feel free to correct me if you feel I'm wrong.

Not sure if Elam was the safety at fault. In the first play, it was just a soft spot in the zone. I don't think there is any fault there. The next play may have been on the LB for not gaining proper depth on his drop due to PA fake. The TD was on Huff, not Elam. His responsibility was the inside, but he bit on an underneath route and left Smith out to dry.

[beanfigger]

Not sure if Elam was the safety at fault. In the first play, it was just a soft spot in the zone. I don't think there is any fault there. The next play may have been on the LB for not gaining proper depth on his drop due to PA fake. The TD was on Huff, not Elam. His responsibility was the inside, but he bit on an underneath route and left Smith out to dry.

 

It's hard to say.  Like he said, Elam was guarding no one.  At least Huff was going after someone to cover.  If the underneath guy had scored, people would be saying the same thing about Huff missing that guy.

[izvoodoo]

Not sure if Elam was the safety at fault. In the first play, it was just a soft spot in the zone. I don't think there is any fault there. The next play may have been on the LB for not gaining proper depth on his drop due to PA fake. The TD was on Huff, not Elam. His responsibility was the inside, but he bit on an underneath route and left Smith out to dry.

Daryl Smith and Huff were doubling a TE.  If that was the call, then Jimmy had the play wrong.  Someone clearly made a mistake.  Not sure who it was, but I'm likely to say Huff.

[gabefergy]

It's hard to say.  Like he said, Elam was guarding no one.  At least Huff was going after someone to cover.  If the underneath guy had scored, people would be saying the same thing about Huff missing that guy.

That's the job of the deep safety in a cover 3. He could have gambled and come up to try to make a play on the ball, but that could lead to a play over the top. Elam was in the correct position, I dont think that is true about Huff either, or at least it shouldnt be. He bailed on his responsibility, and the much bigger threat, to double team the TE who was already being covered by a LB.