Espn Poll

[Ravens0012]

I just read on the ravens website under "Notes: Foundation is built" that over the last 7 weeks, no qb has posted a better passer rating than Flacco's 99.1 rating. Go Flacco!!!

[Ravens0012]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97616' date='Dec 2 2008, 11:08 PM']It has been noted, but how can you possibly expect unbiased fans to vote for Flacco?

-Ryan has more touchdowns.
-Ryan has less interceptions.
-Ryan has thrown for more yards.
-Ryan has a higher QB rating.
-Ryan has higher YPA.
-Ryan has an equal completion percentage.
-Ryan has been sacked less.
-Ryan comes from a semi-high profile system.
-Ryan was a top three draft pick.

And you expect people to vote for Joe? Please.[/quote]


read my last post.....my response would be yeah i expect people to vote for Joe

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Ravens0012' post='97644' date='Dec 3 2008, 01:30 AM']read my last post.....my response would be yeah i expect people to vote for Joe[/quote]

"over the last 7 weeks, no qb has posted a better passer rating than Flacco's 99.1 rating."

I'm pretty sure we're going into week fourteen, not week eight.

[Purple Punishment]

Joe doesnt need the recognition from the league for his play. Everyone knows that Joe Flacco in the past weeks has produced a better QB Rating than every QB in the NFL, Every means Every QB! both Mannings! Cassel, Big Ben, Brett Favre, etc. and you can add Matt Ryan to that list too. Let Joe do what he does and the recognition will come with consecutive seasons of great play. Im just happy that we have a primetime game and I will get to watch it here in Kuwait on monday morning!

[H8R]

All of this will be answered at the end of the season IMO. Also to note, Ryan was named the starter in camp...Joe,... 2 days before opening day. That is HUGE IMO. Flacco was less polished and has similar numbers..What do you think is going to happen when Flacco has more time>? Also, Cam is still working on giving Joe full command...Matt Ryan has his full play book at his disposal. Atlantas O-line has less injuries and has been together longer then Bmore giving there QB more time....That's huge Too. I do not think Matt Ryan is a more versatile QB.

[Tiz]

[quote name='ravensfan2430' post='97412' date='Dec 2 2008, 06:24 PM']agreed.... plus i think if flacco would have started the year the way he has been playing now then he may have gotten as much attention as ryan..... b/c ryan has been good for more of the season than flacco has i think ryan should get the award as of now... but there are still a few games left... it may come down the the final play IMO[/quote]


Agreed on all accounts. Ryan's first pass was a long TD pass. Flacco didn't do as hot week 1 so Ryan garnered much more press earlier on. I do think it'll come down to the end but I'm giving a slight edge to Ryan at this point and alot of it has to do with the emergence of Roddy White whom was knocked quite heavily when Vick was the QB in atlanta.

[Tiz]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' post='97663' date='Dec 3 2008, 05:16 AM']Joe doesnt need the recognition from the league for his play. Everyone knows that Joe Flacco in the past weeks has produced a better QB Rating than every QB in the NFL, Every means Every QB! both Mannings! Cassel, Big Ben, Brett Favre, etc. and you can add Matt Ryan to that list too. Let Joe do what he does and the recognition will come with consecutive seasons of great play. Im just happy that we have a primetime game and I will get to watch it here in Kuwait on monday morning![/quote]


Joe has constantly gotten recognition from the league and has pretty much been on the top 10 on NFLN every week. That said, I'm with you on the national games. The only other time I got to watch the Ravens live was against Oakland...

IN regards to the QB rating, Ryan is 8th in the league over the course of the season the WHOLE season not just a part of it. When you have to take just an arbitrary amount of games to make your guy look great then you really hurt their cause, imo, rather than help them.

[H8R]

Let us look deeper:

Matt has faced 1 Top 5 defense Joe has faced 3
Matt has faced 2 Top 10 defense Joe has faced 4
Matt has faced 4 Top 15 defense Joe has faced 5
Matt has faced 6 Top 20 defense Joe has faced 7


Remaining games

Matt has 1 Top 5 Joe has 2
Matt has 2 Top 10 Joe has 3
Matt has 2 Top 10 Joe has 3
Matt has 2 Top 15 Joe has 4

It will be easier to get an idea of who had a better year once the regular season and post season have been completed (if either or both make it).

Joe has a harder road to the ROTY IMO. Joe has faced the 26th worst defense, Matt has faced the 32nd Joe has faced/will face the number 1(twice) defense Matt has faced/will face the number 4(twice).
Matt has faced / will face 8 teams with a defense 20 or worse. Joe has/will face 6

It's clear that if Joe finishes with similar numbers he should get it out of the two.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='RavensFanMvp' post='97471' date='Dec 2 2008, 08:50 PM']I couldn't have said it better myself raven0012. I'm still waiting on ravnet to explain that one. Flacco has the stronger arm, better mobility, better accuracy, a higher QB IQ, better work ethics, and is a better student of the game then Ryan is. I've read somewhere that Joe comes to the team facility on his days off, to study tape of the upcoming opponent and to workout. The team have to almost force Joe to leave, because he's at the facility so late. Flacco also go over the upcoming game plan for the next opponent at home as well. Now that's dedication! The only things that Ryan has over Flacco right now is better field vision, better players around him offensive, and a higher draft stock. But the way Flacco looked off receivers and spread the ball around, getting everyone involved last week, he is gaining ground on Ryan in the field vision department. So in my opinion, Joe has the higher ceiling. Ryan is a good player, but he does get way to much credit for doing what he does. I even heard someone on ESPN yesterday say Ryan should win the MVP award. MVP? Are you kidding me? Don't believe the hype, Matt Ryan is no Joe Flacco. I think both guys will be great players in the NFL, but in the end Flacco will be the better QB, because he's much more physically, and mentally superior then Ryan is....I meant to quote flynismo respond to ravnet saying Ryan had a higher ceiling than Flacco. My bad. Please fellow ravens fans don't crucify me for my mistake. I'm new to the board. lol[/quote]
Ryan has the same work ethic as Joe, but I do think that Joe has a stronger arm. Having a strong arm is not everything, trust me Vick had a cannon, but I don't think that he is more accurate.

[20ravens52]

Ok...how does ryan have a better upside than flacco...all the ints he threw in college. Although I do realize flacco did play in division II. I thought ryan was one of the most overrated playes going into the draft.

Flacco scrambles better and has in my opinion, one of the strongest arms in the nfl.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='20ravens52' post='97884' date='Dec 3 2008, 05:52 PM']Ok...how does ryan have a better upside than flacco...all the ints he threw in college. Although I do realize flacco did play in division II. I thought ryan was one of the most overrated playes going into the draft.

Flacco scrambles better and has in my opinion, one of the strongest arms in the nfl.[/quote]
Ryan has thrown less interceptions and having a strong arm and being able to run is not everything ask Vick

[cheeze]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97411' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:23 PM'][i]It's interesting to note that the Falcons are ahead of the Ravens in every single power ranking as well. [/i] The analysts/fans are quick to attribute Flacco's success to the fact that he walked into a situation where he had a good defense and a good running game, yet they still view Atlanta as the more dangerous team. Huh? There is a reason I don't put any stock into what the media says.[/quote]

Not Silvers' on Yahoo. Love his articles.

[RavensFanMvp]

[quote name='#1falconfan' post='97754' date='Dec 3 2008, 12:25 PM'] Ryan has the same work ethic as Joe, but I do think that Joe has a stronger arm. Having a strong arm is not everything, trust me Vick had a cannon, but I don't think that he is more accurate.[/quote]
A Falcons fan! How did you manage to flap your way over to a ravens board? I guess you're here to tell us all how good Matt Ryan is, huh? Well, quick question, don't you think we get enough of that from ESPN and the rest of the national sports media? But seriously, Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB and he's probably going to win the rookie of the year award, but I really hate to bust your bubble but...if you want the honest, Matt Ryan is a one dimensional QB. He's a "quote on quote" pocket passer. He's a pretty good one, but that's all he is. Joe Flacco on the other hand is a all around player that can do it all at the QB position. Not only can he throw a 70 yd pass with ease, but he can take off and run with the ball as well. Flacco did have a 38 yd run against Cincinnati you know? Maybe you didn't see the highlight on sportscenter because it probably got loss during the Matt Ryan worship segment. Whatever the case may be, comparing Flacoo to Vick is a insult, let me run Flacoo stats by you just in case his numbers got lost during the Matt Ryan rookie of the year coronation ceremony. 2,276 yds 12 tds 9int 61.0% completion pct, 160 yds rushing 2 tds. Does that sound like Michael Vick numbers to you? Flacco is a pocket passer first, but if things start to breakdown, he can create plays with his legs. Flacco also caught a 43 yd pass earlier this year as well. He's a all around athlete, with a pass first mentality, that has the potential to do it all. The point I was trying to make in my last comment was, both guys should turn out to be great Qb's but Flacco has the intangibles to be better. And can you post the link to the site stating that Ryan comes to the Falcon facility on his days off and have to practically be kick out of the building because he want to study film on the next opponent. You did say Ryan have the same work ethic as Flacco right? I'll post the one about Joe as soon as I find it. And by the way, I must commend you on coming to another teams board to take up for your team. It's too many bandwagon riding fans out here now of days and it's nice to see a loyal fan, even if you are a dirty bird fan.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='ravensgirlx88' post='97482' date='Dec 2 2008, 09:07 PM']I know!! The whole Matt Ryan thing is really starting to bug me! Flacco can run the ball as well as pass it. He has put something into this offense that we didn't have before and brought out the best in receivers we didn't even know we had. Not only that but unlike Atlanta we also have a Defense to back us up. Sometimes I wonder how these guys can be considered experts. Especially since on ESPN they are supposed to be "unbiased" which is BS.[/quote]



They are only expert's in expressing their opinion's. I saw Flacco on TV during the college QB drill contest where he won the distance contest and I was like wow, he really has a strong arm. When we picked him in the draft I was expecting him to sit on the bench but things happened and look at him now. To be honest I was not expecting much from him but as I have watched him grow and get better in such a short time I am now convinced he is the GUY for now and the future. So who cares about what M. Ryan is doing we have Joe Flacco and I have not seen Ryan doing any of the stuff that Flacco has done or can do!

[Tiz]

[quote name='20ravens52' post='97884' date='Dec 3 2008, 03:52 PM']Ok...how does ryan have a better upside than flacco...all the ints he threw in college. Although I do realize flacco did play in division II. I thought ryan was one of the most overrated playes going into the draft.

Flacco scrambles better and has in my opinion, one of the strongest arms in the nfl.[/quote]


I agree with the first part. I didn't like Ryan coming out because he, like Jay Cutler, were prone to INTs and forcing the ball in college.

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='RavensFanMvp' post='97897' date='Dec 3 2008, 07:02 PM']A Falcons fan! How did you manage to flap your way over to a ravens board? I guess you're here to tell us all how good Matt Ryan is, huh? Well, quick question, don't you think we get enough of that from ESPN and the rest of the national sports media? But seriously, Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB and he's probably going to win the rookie of the year award, but I really hate to bust your bubble but...if you want the honest, Matt Ryan is a one dimensional QB. He's a "quote on quote" pocket passer. He's a pretty good one, but that's all he is. Joe Flacco on the other hand is a all around player that can do it all at the QB position. Not only can he throw a 70 yd pass with ease, but he can take off and run with the ball as well. Flacco did have a 38 yd run against Cincinnati you know? Maybe you didn't see the highlight on sportscenter because it probably got loss during the Matt Ryan worship segment. Whatever the case may be, comparing Flacoo to Vick is a insult, let me run Flacoo stats by you just in case his numbers got lost during the Matt Ryan rookie of the year coronation ceremony. 2,276 yds 12 tds 9int 61.0% completion pct, 160 yds rushing 2 tds. Does that sound like Michael Vick numbers to you? Flacco is a pocket passer first, but if things start to breakdown, he can create plays with his legs. Flacco also caught a 43 yd pass earlier this year as well. He's a all around athlete, with a pass first mentality, that has the potential to do it all. The point I was trying to make in my last comment was, both guys should turn out to be great Qb's but Flacco has the intangibles to be better. And can you post the link to the site stating that Ryan comes to the Falcon facility on his days off and have to practically be kick out of the building because he want to study film on the next opponent. You did say Ryan have the same work ethic as Flacco right? I'll post the one about Joe as soon as I find it. And by the way, I must commend you on coming to another teams board to take up for your team. It's too many bandwagon riding fans out here now of days and it's nice to see a loyal fan, even if you are a dirty bird fan.[/quote]

[size=7]This is the stuff I'm talking about. I have not seen this nor do I see it in M. Ryan, but he is pretty good.[/size]

[ROH522155]

[quote name='kash96ravenstotalfan' post='97418' date='Dec 2 2008, 08:30 PM']Thanks for the link. Ryan gets alot of press, probably because he was the No. 1 draft pick. I hate to go off topic here, but while I was on the website I went to the "week 14 pick em" and 69% of the voters chose the Ravens to beat the Redskins![/quote]
the experts on cbs are unanimous for the ravens

[Ravens0012]

[quote name='20ravens52' post='97884' date='Dec 3 2008, 05:52 PM']Ok...how does ryan have a better upside than flacco...all the ints he threw in college. Although I do realize flacco did play in division II. I thought ryan was one of the most overrated playes going into the draft.

Flacco scrambles better and has in my opinion, one of the strongest arms in the nfl.[/quote]

About the strongest arm thing.....Baltimore has 3 well i guess 2 of the strongest armed qb's in the nfl, between Flacco, Smith, and Boller

[flynismo]

[quote name='RavensFanMvp' post='97897' date='Dec 3 2008, 07:02 PM']2,276 yds 12 tds 9int 61.0% completion pct, 160 yds rushing 2 tds. Does that sound like Michael Vick numbers to you?[/quote]


Actually, yeah...

Jack up the rushing total of course, but weren't those Vick's annual stats? 2,200-2,400 passing yards, a dozen or so TD's.
But, really, Flacco is already better than Vick ever was or will be.

[72Marshall]

[quote name='macbrak' post='97409' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:19 PM']I think this says more about how crappy the Falcons were last year then how good Ryan or Flacco are.[/quote]

I think it says more about how over hyped Vick was. If you didn't know any better you would have thought that Vick invented the QB position, but in truth he sucked and the Falcons are proof of how bad he actually was.

That's another reason to be thankful for Flacco, when Vick gets out of prison we know Vick won't be coming here.

[Ravens0012]

Our players just get no credit from NFL fans.

NFL.com has a poll on their main page now [url="http://www.nfl.com/"]http://www.nfl.com/[/url] (bottom right corner) about AFCN best wide receivers.

Edwards, Ward, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh

Mason is tied for last with Edwards. That's garbage. Mason doesn't drop the football and he gets open all the time. Houshmandzadeh may get lots of receptions and yardage, but could he do it without Ocho Cinco drawing coverage. And last but not least, Hines Ward. Yes hes a very good blocker (too many cheap shots/unnecessary hits though) and he gets his fair share of the football but not enough for some one to give no credit to who in my opinion is the best hands and route runner in the nfl....Mason.

should be like this

tie between mason and ward
then edwards and housh can fight it out back and fourth each year

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravens0012' post='97977' date='Dec 3 2008, 09:42 PM']Our players just get no credit from NFL fans.

NFL.com has a poll on their main page now [url="http://www.nfl.com/"]http://www.nfl.com/[/url] (bottom right corner) about AFCN best wide receivers.

Edwards, Ward, Mason, and Houshmandzadeh

Mason is tied for last with Edwards. That's garbage. Mason doesn't drop the football and he gets open all the time. Houshmandzadeh may get lots of receptions and yardage, but could he do it without Ocho Cinco drawing coverage. And last but not least, Hines Ward. Yes hes a very good blocker (too many cheap shots/unnecessary hits though) and he gets his fair share of the football but not enough for some one to give no credit to who in my opinion is the best hands and route runner in the nfl....Mason.

should be like this

tie between mason and ward
then edwards and housh can fight it out back and fourth each year[/quote]

I don't know...I think all four are pretty much on the same level. Mace is easily the best route runner, and him and TJ have the best hands. Ward has many intangibles that make him a good receiver. Edwards would be a man among boys in this crowd if he worked on his hands, and gained more experience (he seems to be a slow learner). And Housh has the best combination of hands, size and the ability to get open of the group.
You could make a reasonable argument for anyone of them to be the best/worst really...

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='RavensFanMvp' post='97897' date='Dec 3 2008, 07:02 PM']A Falcons fan! How did you manage to flap your way over to a ravens board? I guess you're here to tell us all how good Matt Ryan is, huh? Well, quick question, don't you think we get enough of that from ESPN and the rest of the national sports media? But seriously, Matt Ryan is a pretty good QB and he's probably going to win the rookie of the year award, but I really hate to bust your bubble but...if you want the honest, Matt Ryan is a one dimensional QB. He's a "quote on quote" pocket passer. He's a pretty good one, but that's all he is. Joe Flacco on the other hand is a all around player that can do it all at the QB position. Not only can he throw a 70 yd pass with ease, but he can take off and run with the ball as well. Flacco did have a 38 yd run against Cincinnati you know? Maybe you didn't see the highlight on sportscenter because it probably got loss during the Matt Ryan worship segment. Whatever the case may be, comparing Flacoo to Vick is a insult, let me run Flacoo stats by you just in case his numbers got lost during the Matt Ryan rookie of the year coronation ceremony. 2,276 yds 12 tds 9int 61.0% completion pct, 160 yds rushing 2 tds. Does that sound like Michael Vick numbers to you? Flacco is a pocket passer first, but if things start to breakdown, he can create plays with his legs. Flacco also caught a 43 yd pass earlier this year as well. He's a all around athlete, with a pass first mentality, that has the potential to do it all. The point I was trying to make in my last comment was, both guys should turn out to be great Qb's but Flacco has the intangibles to be better. And can you post the link to the site stating that Ryan comes to the Falcon facility on his days off and have to practically be kick out of the building because he want to study film on the next opponent. You did say Ryan have the same work ethic as Flacco right? I'll post the one about Joe as soon as I find it. And by the way, I must commend you on coming to another teams board to take up for your team. It's too many bandwagon riding fans out here now of days and it's nice to see a loyal fan, even if you are a dirty bird fan.[/quote]
Actually I have been here b4, but all I am saying that can run is not the best thing since sliced bread. Vick was not really a bad passer. The WRs were horrible, and our offensive coordinator was horrible (look at the Raiders O). B4 Mora got here Vick had his best years, but enough about him. I do think that Flacco will be great, and I also think that if both of our teams were to play right now yall would win.

[#1falconfan]

[quote name='72Marshall' post='97974' date='Dec 3 2008, 09:37 PM']I think it says more about how over hyped Vick was. If you didn't know any better you would have thought that Vick invented the QB position, but in truth he sucked and the Falcons are proof of how bad he actually was.

That's another reason to be thankful for Flacco, when Vick gets out of prison we know Vick won't be coming here.[/quote]
Vick basically carried the team

[Ravnet]

[quote name='20ravens52' post='97884' date='Dec 3 2008, 05:52 PM']Ok...how does ryan have a better upside than flacco...all the ints he threw in college. Although I do realize flacco did play in division II. I thought ryan was one of the most overrated playes going into the draft.

Flacco scrambles better and has in my opinion, one of the strongest arms in the nfl.[/quote]

Although I drool over Flacco's potential, his ability to run ten yards and throw the ball far are not the best aspects of his game.

[Jesse Conroy]

[quote name='macbrak' post='97409' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:19 PM']I think this says more about how crappy the Falcons were last year then how good Ryan or Flacco are.[/quote]

Couldnt you say the same for us?

[Ravenoid]

Ryan's stats would be a lot lower if he had played some real competition. Ryan has less of an upside because he was NFL ready comming in to the league. Ryan has more weapons not better weapons. I think we'll see things even out considerably between Flacco and Ryan as the games become more intense. Flacco has timed up with Clayton and Heap now and Wilcox has entered the picture. If the O-line can stay healthy from here on out it will get VERY INTERESTING!

Shhhhhhh. Don't let anyone know this.

lol

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97612' date='Dec 3 2008, 12:04 AM']Because statistical analysis of a quarterback's rookie year can adequately measure how they'll compare, right? Ryan is actually shockingly similar to Peyton in that they're is slow, but have pocket presence. Neither possess a cannon, but they can get it accurately deep down field. Both are leaders and can adjust at the line of scrimmage.[/quote]
Having a weak arm and slow feet does not automatically mean you're the next Peyton Manning. If that makes Ryan the next Peyton Manning then Flacco must be the next Steve Young or John Elway and i'll take both of those guys over Manning.

And i guess it must be coincidence that the one time Ryan played a top 5 defense he got absolutely shredded. People are more impressed with his performances against the worst defenses in football. After Sundays game Flacco will have played 5 (!) out of the top 7 defenses in 12 games. That's a ridiculous number. Meanwhile Ryan gets to play the worst defenses in football on a weekly basis and people are surprised with the way he handles them, yeah, really impressive. Put Pittsburgh, our defense or the Giants on Atlanta's schedule and then let's talk about his pocket presence again.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bullrush' post='98050' date='Dec 4 2008, 12:02 AM']Having a weak arm and slow feet does not automatically mean you're the next Peyton Manning. If that makes Ryan the next Peyton Manning then Flacco must be the next Steve Young or John Elway and i'll take both of those guys over Manning.

And i guess it must be coincidence that the one time Ryan played a top 5 defense he got absolutely shredded. People are more impressed with his performances against the worst defenses in football. After Sundays game Flacco will have played 5 (!) out of the top 7 defenses in 12 games. That's a ridiculous number. Meanwhile Ryan gets to play the worst defenses in football on a weekly basis and people are surprised with the way he handles them, yeah, really impressive. Put Pittsburgh, our defense or the Giants on Atlanta's schedule and then let's talk about his pocket presence again.[/quote]



Reality check = 1
Matt Ryan = 0

[Mahatma_Sloth]

correct me if im wrong but dosent flacco only have 3 more int than ryan and after playing more higher ranked ds? also isnt flacco leading the nfl in passer rateing over the last half of the season thus far? dosent flacco have more 40+ yd completions?

what do you think would happen if ryan had to play the titans giants cowboys and the stealers twice..... thats the number one d twice