Espn Poll

[Ravens0012]

ESPN has a poll on its NFL home page [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index[/url]. Towards bottom right.

I don't understand how the whole United States could vote so heavily for Matt Ryan. Yeah i agree he is playing excellent ball for the Falcons, but 67% of the votes, come on. The media needs to stop just talking about Ryan. All people hear everyday on ESPN is Ryan, Ryan, Ryan. Maybe if there were actual NFL fans and not just "well i only know about my team" fans in this world, then maybe more people would recognize what other players are doing. Not just what ESPN decides to air on television.

Yes Ryan deserves some props, but please, someone give some highlights for Flacco. The guy deserves some credit.

[macbrak]

I think this says more about how crappy the Falcons were last year then how good Ryan or Flacco are.

[Ravnet]

It's the same on most sites that compare Flacco and Ryan - most people have Matt ahead of Joe. Personally, I'd take Ryan just because he has a higher ceiling, but there is most certainly not a big difference between the two and Flacco may end up being better. Being a top three draft pick out of a fairly high profile program, people were well aware of Matt Ryan coming out.

It's interesting to note that the Falcons are ahead of the Ravens in every single power ranking as well. The analysts/fans are quick to attribute Flacco's success to the fact that he walked into a situation where he had a good defense and a good running game, yet they still view Atlanta as the more dangerous team. Huh? There is a reason I don't put any stock into what the media says.

[ravensfan2430]

[quote name='macbrak' post='97409' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:19 PM']I think this says more about how crappy the Falcons were last year then how good Ryan or Flacco are.[/quote]


agreed.... plus i think if flacco would have started the year the way he has been playing now then he may have gotten as much attention as ryan..... b/c ryan has been good for more of the season than flacco has i think ryan should get the award as of now... but there are still a few games left... it may come down the the final play IMO

[Ravens0012]

[quote name='macbrak' post='97409' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:19 PM']I think this says more about how crappy the Falcons were last year then how good Ryan or Flacco are.[/quote]

Yes, I agree to that.

I wouldn't say either way who I believe is the better player, for I have not seen much of Ryan's play. If you go by stats they would be very similar. All my point is, that Ryan does not deserve that much more credit over Flacco.

[ravens world]

flacco has less than ryan he has rb turner and he has better recivers so that stuff will help you out but flacco should get more credit cause he has less to work with then ryan sorry mason

[macbrak]

Ryan was also hyped (which turned out to be valid) for about three months before the draft and was on the top of every team that needed a qb's list.

[kash96ravenstotalfan]

[quote name='Ravens0012' post='97405' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:16 PM']ESPN has a poll on its NFL home page [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index[/url].

I don't understand how the whole United States could vote so heavily for Matt Ryan. Yeah i agree he is playing excellent ball for the Falcons, but 67% of the votes, come on. The media needs to stop just talking about Ryan. All people hear everyday on ESPN is Ryan, Ryan, Ryan. Maybe if there were actual NFL fans and not just "well i only know about my team" fans in this world, then maybe more people would recognize what other players are doing. Not just what ESPN decides to air on television.

Yes Ryan deserves some props, but please, someone give some highlights for Flacco. The guy deserves some credit.[/quote]
Thanks for the link. Ryan gets alot of press, probably because he was the No. 1 draft pick. I hate to go off topic here, but while I was on the website I went to the "week 14 pick em" and 69% of the voters chose the Ravens to beat the Redskins!

[Ravens0012]

[quote name='kash96ravenstotalfan' post='97418' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:30 PM']Thanks for the link. Ryan gets alot of press, probably because he was the No. 1 draft pick. I hate to go off topic here, but while I was on the website I went to the "week 14 pick em" and 69% of the voters chose the Ravens to beat the Redskins![/quote]


Go week 14 pick em voters haha

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97411' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:23 PM']Personally, I'd take Ryan just because he has a higher ceiling...[/quote]


Really? I'm not trying to be a homer, but I really do think Flacco has a much higher ceiling than Ryan.
My opinion is this...

I see Ryan developing into Eli Manning; maybe a little more consistent than Eli is though.
Flacco...he's unique; a hybrid between Roethlisberger/Brady, only he's faster, more athletic and has a better arm then Ben, so I really don't know of anyone to compare him to. Just picture Tom Brady with the ability to make plays with his feet, that will be Flacco.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravens world' post='97414' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:24 PM']flacco has less than ryan he has rb turner and he has better recivers so that stuff will help you out but flacco should get more credit cause he has less to work with then ryan sorry mason[/quote]

Ouch! Way to slap Mace in the face!

But, I agree with you...

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97411' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:23 PM']Personally, I'd take Ryan just because he has a higher ceiling[/quote]
Say what? Ryan was the safe pick in the draft, the guy has no upside. He was already a finished product when he came out. And he has made no progress during the season. He looked solid/good from day one, and he still looks solid/good. Flacco is the one with all the upside, and down the road he will be the better QB because he's still making progress. Even Mike Mayock said that and he's the biggest Ryan supporter in the country.

Who cares what the poll says. Flacco started out slow, that's basically it. If you start out slow in the NFL there's no way you will make the Pro Bowl either. Harbaugh already said we don't need this attention. The Giants didn't need or get this attention last year when they won the superbowl so who cares what the media says.

[RavensFanMvp]

[quote name='Ravens0012' post='97420' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:34 PM']Go week 14 pick em voters haha[/quote]
I couldn't have said it better myself raven0012. I'm still waiting on ravnet to explain that one. Flacco has the stronger arm, better mobility, better accuracy, a higher QB IQ, better work ethics, and is a better student of the game then Ryan is. I've read somewhere that Joe comes to the team facility on his days off, to study tape of the upcoming opponent and to workout. The team have to almost force Joe to leave, because he's at the facility so late. Flacco also go over the upcoming game plan for the next opponent at home as well. Now that's dedication! The only things that Ryan has over Flacco right now is better field vision, better players around him offensive, and a higher draft stock. But the way Flacco looked off receivers and spread the ball around, getting everyone involved last week, he is gaining ground on Ryan in the field vision department. So in my opinion, Joe has the higher ceiling. Ryan is a good player, but he does get way to much credit for doing what he does. I even heard someone on ESPN yesterday say Ryan should win the MVP award. MVP? Are you kidding me? Don't believe the hype, Matt Ryan is no Joe Flacco. I think both guys will be great players in the NFL, but in the end Flacco will be the better QB, because he's much more physically, and mentally superior then Ryan is....I meant to quote flynismo respond to ravnet saying Ryan had a higher ceiling than Flacco. My bad. Please fellow ravens fans don't crucify me for my mistake. I'm new to the board. lol

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Bullrush' post='97434' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:49 PM']Say what? Ryan was the safe pick in the draft, the guy has no upside. He was already a finished product when he came out. And he has made no progress during the season. He looked solid/good from day one, and he still looks solid/good. Flacco is the one with all the upside, and down the road he will be the better QB because he's still making progress. Even Mike Mayock said that and he's the biggest Ryan supporter in the country.

Who cares what the poll says. Flacco started out slow, that's basically it. If you start out slow in the NFL there's no way you will make the Pro Bowl either. Harbaugh already said we don't need this attention. The Giants didn't need or get this attention last year when they won the superbowl so who cares what the media says.[/quote]

Flacco had more upside coming out, but not a higher ceiling. Whereas Flacco had more room to improve, Ryan has a ceiling of Peyton Manning.

[ravensgirlx88]

I know!! The whole Matt Ryan thing is really starting to bug me! Flacco can run the ball as well as pass it. He has put something into this offense that we didn't have before and brought out the best in receivers we didn't even know we had. Not only that but unlike Atlanta we also have a Defense to back us up. Sometimes I wonder how these guys can be considered experts. Especially since on ESPN they are supposed to be "unbiased" which is BS.

[itscbm5042]

And Flacco has the ceiling of Tom Brady/Ben Roethlisberger hybrid. I'll take that thanks! Ryan has put up similar numbers to Joe while already having a #1 receiver in a defensively deficient division aside from the Bucs. Joe has no more than a #3 possession receiver to throw to and still puts up huge numbers. Joe has a higher ceiling.

[#1 D]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97476' date='Dec 2 2008, 08:56 PM']Flacco had more upside coming out, but not a higher ceiling. Whereas Flacco had more room to improve, Ryan has a ceiling of Peyton Manning.[/quote]
i don't think ryan has a higher cieling of success. it's all about the intelligence and poise of a quarterback that sets the career, not the physical tools. Both Flacco and Ryan have poise, intelligence, and confidence in the huddle. Ryan is more of a leader whereas Flacco is the calm QB, and both can be successful. But the one thing separating them is the physical tools, where flacco has a huge upside.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ravnet' post='97476' date='Dec 2 2008, 09:56 PM']Flacco had more upside coming out, but not a higher ceiling. Whereas Flacco had more room to improve, Ryan has a ceiling of Peyton Manning.[/quote]
Peyton and Ryan have nothing in common. Peyton struggled in his rookie season, he made a lot of progress in his 2nd year and so on. He wasn't even the best QB coming out of college. Ryan is already a finished product, he was the safest pick in the draft. He won't get much better. There's no "next level". If you want to compare him to a QB try Chad Pennington.

[CP`C-Pain`CP]

Even Forte is beating Flacco >.<

RAVENS UNITE!
Lets get our man Joe to the top lol.

[JO_75]

[quote name='flynismo' post='97423' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:39 PM']Really? I'm not trying to be a homer, but I really do think Flacco has a much higher ceiling than Ryan.
My opinion is this...

I see Ryan developing into Eli Manning; maybe a little more consistent than Eli is though.
Flacco...he's unique; a hybrid between Roethlisberger/Brady, only he's faster, more athletic and has a better arm then Ben, so I really don't know of anyone to compare him to. Just picture Tom Brady with the ability to make plays with his feet, that will be Flacco.[/quote]

That's funny, I made a comparision earlier in the year where I said Flacco would turn into an Eli Manning. I am not going to argue over who is better between Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. I am just going to give props to both. Both Ryan and Flacco have been amazing, now being in North Carolina, I have been able to see some of the Falcons games this year, Matt Ryan is just amazing. So is Flacco. Now I will say there has been one major difference, Matt Ryan has been able to lead the Falcons to big wins in GB and last week in SD, while Flacco has only led the Ravens to one big victory, against the Eagles. Of course, beating the Skins this sunday will be another big win. Now the way the season has turned out, and after seeing Joe and Matt perform, they both look built in the mold of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. IMO.

[macbrak]

[quote name='JO_75' post='97509' date='Dec 2 2008, 09:32 PM']That's funny, I made a comparision earlier in the year where I said Flacco would turn into an Eli Manning. I am not going to argue over who is better between Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco. I am just going to give props to both. Both Ryan and Flacco have been amazing, now being in North Carolina, I have been able to see some of the Falcons games this year, Matt Ryan is just amazing. So is Flacco. Now I will say there has been one major difference, Matt Ryan has been able to lead the Falcons to big wins in GB and last week in SD, while Flacco has only led the Ravens to one big victory, against the Eagles. Of course, beating the Skins this sunday will be another big win. Now the way the season has turned out, and after seeing Joe and Matt perform, they both look built in the mold of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. IMO.[/quote]
GB and SD who probably won't even be in the playoffs?

[neepo13]

1) Fans dont look in depth at stats. They only look at overall numbers and Ryan's overall numbers are better then Flacco's because Flacco had a rough start.

2) He went to a big time program, so more people saw him play in college and actually knew who he was going into the draft. Joe on the other hand went to a "small" program and didnt get the national attention that BC gets.

3) He started the season better and his name was in the media more.

[neepo13]

[quote name='macbrak' post='97417' date='Dec 2 2008, 07:29 PM']Ryan was also hyped (which turned out to be valid) for about three months before the draft and was on the top of every team that needed a qb's list.[/quote]

According to the media.

[rayraysauce]

Ryan has a better Qb rating(Matt ryan ranked 8th in league Joe Flacco 20th) more yards more touchdowns less INTS.......

What is a non-bias NFL fan going to vote for?

common guys get real...

[FerrariFan87]

If you peruse the map of the votes, 33% of Maryland votes went to Ryan... something is wrong with that.

Considering where Flacco went to school and where Ryan went, and considering Ryan was the 3rd overall pick to Flacco being 18th, and considering their numbers are all but identical, I'd say Flacco has been MUCH more impressive than Ryan...

[itscbm5042]

That 33% I'd bet almost anything were Skins fans near DC

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='itscbm5042' post='97577' date='Dec 2 2008, 10:29 PM']That 33% I'd bet almost anything were Skins fans near DC[/quote]

Yeah, that was my thought initially too, these polls are always so pointless lol, especially when fans are involved

[RavensFanMvp]

[quote name='neepo13' post='97535' date='Dec 2 2008, 09:55 PM']1) Fans dont look in depth at stats. They only look at overall numbers and Ryan's overall numbers are better then Flacco's because Flacco had a rough start.

2) He went to a big time program, so more people saw him play in college and actually knew who he was going into the draft. Joe on the other hand went to a "small" program and didnt get the national attention that BC gets.

3) He started the season better and his name was in the media more.[/quote]
You made three valid points. I think it's crazy how some fans and the media judge, and determine what makes a good player. What difference does it make what college you went to? If you can play, you can play. Period. But it's funny, i saw a clip on youtube where Joe Flacco's former coach at Delaware asked Ozzie Newsome days before the draft, and i quote, " If Flacco was playing for USC, give me one reason why he wouldn't be the number one pick in the draft?" And Ozzie had no reason to give. So i think this organization had there mind made up who they were going to draft, that's probably why the team didn't move up to draft Ryan like most "experts" predicted we would.

[Ravnet]

[quote name='Bullrush' post='97496' date='Dec 2 2008, 09:23 PM']Peyton and Ryan have nothing in common. Peyton struggled in his rookie season, he made a lot of progress in his 2nd year and so on. He wasn't even the best QB coming out of college. Ryan is already a finished product, he was the safest pick in the draft. He won't get much better. There's no "next level". If you want to compare him to a QB try Chad Pennington.[/quote]

Because statistical analysis of a quarterback's rookie year can adequately measure how they'll compare, right? Ryan is actually shockingly similar to Peyton in that they're is slow, but have pocket presence. Neither possess a cannon, but they can get it accurately deep down field. Both are leaders and can adjust at the line of scrimmage.

[Ravnet]

It has been noted, but how can you possibly expect unbiased fans to vote for Flacco?

-Ryan has more touchdowns.
-Ryan has less interceptions.
-Ryan has thrown for more yards.
-Ryan has a higher QB rating.
-Ryan has higher YPA.
-Ryan has an equal completion percentage.
-Ryan has been sacked less.
-Ryan comes from a semi-high profile system.
-Ryan was a top three draft pick.

And you expect people to vote for Joe? Please.