Matt Birk speaks on top O-Lines

[CARavensFan]

the steelers O-line might be pretty good this year too

 

Adams-DD-MP-Foster-Gilbert

 

our center has been a pro-bowler every year

foster has improved into a great guard

DD is expected to be a pro bowl level guard

Adams performed well for a rookie and is expected to be improved this year

Gilbert is our weakest piece but he will be a fine LT this year

 

That, potentially, could be the best O-Line Ben has had in his entire career

 

But that say more about the quality (or lack thereof) of the pervious seasons O-Line, than this years.

 

That being said Decastro should be good if he doesn't get hurt again, Maurkice will be good, but he's still overrated. Adams and Gilbert have potenial, but they need to be more consistent.

[GrimCoconut]

My issue for the Steelers OL being better or close to our OL is this: I don't like the injury bug for DeCastro and Pouncey in addition to Adams as well. One year a trend does not make so the jury is undecided there but Pouncey has a good history of injuries.

Also one more thing: Yanda is better than any player the Steelers have on the OL. Pouncey is better than Gradkowski because he's more proven despite his injuries. KO is better than DeCastro in my eyes because he played decent at RT and played very well at LG against some very good players. As for McKinnie and Gilbert I'm not a fan of McKinnie but I'm also not a fan of Gilbert. I'd probably give McKinnie a slight edge but I consider them a wash. I like Adams but he's also got to stay healthy. He's got upside but even though I'm not his biggest fan I give Michael Oher the edge over him due to consistency.

So yes I think the Ravens OL is better than Pittsburgh because of key pieces we have. Then again I don't think much separates top 5 teams from top 10 and I also don't think there's much that separates top 10 teams from top 15 teams so there's not much different between these two teams but the small differences put the Ravens over Pittsburgh and compared to other teams I think they're definitely top 10 with borderline top 5 players. My favorite part of the OL is we have the same 4 players on they OL as we did for our Super Bowl run with Gino as the new addition.

[PuRock]

My issue for the Steelers OL being better or close to our OL is this: I don't like the injury bug for DeCastro and Pouncey in addition to Adams as well. One year a trend does not make so the jury is undecided there but Pouncey has a good history of injuries.
 

 

I don't know exactly how each Steelers OL guy suffered their injuries.  But I am willing to bet that Big Ben's style of play (i.e. holding onto the ball and extended plays) leads to more injuries on the O-line than the average team. 

 

While the Steelers have been known to have horrible O-line play, a lot of that stems from Ben.  And his style of play leaves big O-line guys scrambling which leads to injuries.

 

So you can put whoever you want out their for the Steelers, but as long as Ben is at the helm, their O-line will never live up to their potential.  

[Ravensfan23]

I don't know exactly how each Steelers OL guy suffered their injuries.  But I am willing to bet that Big Ben's style of play (i.e. holding onto the ball and extended plays) leads to more injuries on the O-line than the average team. 

 

While the Steelers have been known to have horrible O-line play, a lot of that stems from Ben.  And his style of play leaves big O-line guys scrambling which leads to injuries.

 

So you can put whoever you want out their for the Steelers, but as long as Ben is at the helm, their O-line will never live up to their potential.  

 

That's funny because a good QB usually elevates the play of his oline. It seems Ben is the opposite despite being a good QB. That's his style like it or hate it, so I guess the Steelers are forced to stick with it for better or worse.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't know exactly how each Steelers OL guy suffered their injuries. But I am willing to bet that Big Ben's style of play (i.e. holding onto the ball and extended plays) leads to more injuries on the O-line than the average team.

While the Steelers have been known to have horrible O-line play, a lot of that stems from Ben. And his style of play leaves big O-line guys scrambling which leads to injuries.

So you can put whoever you want out their for the Steelers, but as long as Ben is at the helm, their O-line will never live up to their potential.

That's a great observation. You make a nicer point there. Anyone know their pass protection scheme?

[CARavensFan]

That's a great observation. You make a nicer point there. Anyone know their pass protection scheme?

 

I summon SteelersProphet...

[GrimCoconut]

I summon SteelersProphet...

I hope he doesn't bust out some Final Fantasy moves.

[PuRock]

That's funny because a good QB usually elevates the play of his oline. It seems Ben is the opposite despite being a good QB. That's his style like it or hate it, so I guess the Steelers are forced to stick with it for better or worse.

 

Yep, the QBs who are considered 'good' usually have quick releases, can hit hot routes, and read blitzes.  All three of those qualities are an OL's best friend.  Because the QB avoids sacks and hits which makes them look good on the stat sheets.

 

Ben, does the opposite, he lets the pressure get to him while he tries to extends plays.  Its the way he handles contact and how he can still make great plays down field which makes him 'good'.   Nobody does it better when plays breakdown.   But his style is not very OL friendly and makes the OL look like the bad guy.  

[cushrinada1986]

They did a good job with Miller and Dumervil from a pass-rushing standpoint but Oher was getting killed by Miller in the run game. Mathis and Freeney haven't been the same since the Colts switch to a 3-4 and both Smiths weren't at 100%.

given, again von and doom, they didnt allow much run wise to the outside but I do applaud them for stopping the duo on what they do best, getting to the QB, which would have been even more of a factor than Rice not getting his yards. Freeny and Mathis combined for 13 sacks and 2 FF so its not the tandom werecompletely useless that year and Adlon/Justin smith, even injured, would dominate a lot of teams starting tackles(combined for over 22 sacks in 2012). So as much as I would love to have a younger LT, and a more athletic RT, we are fine with the duo we have, at least for this year.

[ellicottraven]

well whatever you believe him to be he is still a great center...he is not a bad center....maybe people rate him too high but he deserves to be in the conversation.

 

also I wouldn't rate your o-line second.....too many question marks

 

they played well for the playoffs but that's not enough to rate them higher than all but one

 

lets see how your center plays he could be terrible..........too many question marks

 

id rate yours middle of the pack along with ours....im ok with middle of the pack, that's better than we have had before

Gino will play as well as Pouncey does. The difference however is the fact that Gino will be our 5th best offensive lineman and Pouncey will be your best. Sorry but we may have to agree to disagree on Birk's assessment. I tend to believe Birk's assessment a tad more than I would yours....

[hawkprey]

given, again von and doom, they didnt allow much run wise to the outside but I do applaud them for stopping the duo on what they do best, getting to the QB, which would have been even more of a factor than Rice not getting his yards. Freeny and Mathis combined for 13 sacks and 2 FF so its not the tandom werecompletely useless that year and Adlon/Justin smith, even injured, would dominate a lot of teams starting tackles(combined for over 22 sacks in 2012). So as much as I would love to have a younger LT, and a more athletic RT, we are fine with the duo we have, at least for this year.

Well Freeney/Mathis and Aldon Smith/Brooks (Justin played vs Osemele) are decent combos, but there are plenty of good pass rushers in the league. All of the playoff teams except NE had a very good edge rusher. It was the run blocking that was pretty poor though. Oher still misses too many blocks. Only averaging 3.9 ypc in the playoffs with a great RB duo is the O-line's fault. And it's definitely not on Yanda.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Granted its a small sample size, but Gino did hold Geno Atkins in check during the 1 game he got extended playing time.

 

Yes, that's only 1 game.

 

BUT, he did completely neutralize the best interior defensive lineman in football during that 1 and only game.

 

I'd say the future is bright for him.

[bpytnjr58]

Birk has been on the NFL network the past couple of days. And today he was asked to rank the top 5 o-lines for this year, his order goes:

5. Tampa Bay Bucs

4.Denver Broncos

3. San Fancisco 49ers

2. Baltimore Ravens

1. New England Patriots

 

I found it interesting he put our line at #2. I do not think we have an atrocious o-line, but #2 in the league? That seems like a little much to me. Also, I think our very reliable now retired center left a team hanging.... the Seattle Seahawks. Overall Seattle should be a pretty solid team this year though I think people may be blowing them out of proportion a little bit. What is your top 5 o-lines? Do the Baltimore Ravens deserve a spot in it?

A little bias there but certainly no worse than some of the former Steelers players and Coach who are Analysts.

[SteelersProphet]

That, potentially, could be the best O-Line Ben has had in his entire career

 

But that say more about the quality (or lack thereof) of the pervious seasons O-Line, than this years.

 

That being said Decastro should be good if he doesn't get hurt again, Maurkice will be good, but he's still overrated. Adams and Gilbert have potenial, but they need to be more consistent.

I agree with everything you said besides Maurkice being overrated.....but I understand why people say that

 

My issue for the Steelers OL being better or close to our OL is this: I don't like the injury bug for DeCastro and Pouncey in addition to Adams as well. One year a trend does not make so the jury is undecided there but Pouncey has a good history of injuries.

Also one more thing: Yanda is better than any player the Steelers have on the OL. Pouncey is better than Gradkowski because he's more proven despite his injuries. KO is better than DeCastro in my eyes because he played decent at RT and played very well at LG against some very good players. As for McKinnie and Gilbert I'm not a fan of McKinnie but I'm also not a fan of Gilbert. I'd probably give McKinnie a slight edge but I consider them a wash. I like Adams but he's also got to stay healthy. He's got upside but even though I'm not his biggest fan I give Michael Oher the edge over him due to consistency.

So yes I think the Ravens OL is better than Pittsburgh because of key pieces we have. Then again I don't think much separates top 5 teams from top 10 and I also don't think there's much that separates top 10 teams from top 15 teams so there's not much different between these two teams but the small differences put the Ravens over Pittsburgh and compared to other teams I think they're definitely top 10 with borderline top 5 players. My favorite part of the OL is we have the same 4 players on they OL as we did for our Super Bowl run with Gino as the new addition.

I also agree with almost everything you said....I will only add that Decastro will be a great guard this year but I cant rank him ahead of KO because he hasn't proven it yet...but once he has I might reconsider

 

also Pouncey is way better than gradkowski....one is unproven and the other has been a probowler every year of his career

 

I summon SteelersProphet...

lol im a lazy Genie it takes me a few hours to come out of the lamp

 

Yep, the QBs who are considered 'good' usually have quick releases, can hit hot routes, and read blitzes.  All three of those qualities are an OL's best friend.  Because the QB avoids sacks and hits which makes them look good on the stat sheets.

 

Ben, does the opposite, he lets the pressure get to him while he tries to extends plays.  Its the way he handles contact and how he can still make great plays down field which makes him 'good'.   Nobody does it better when plays breakdown.   But his style is not very OL friendly and makes the OL look like the bad guy.  

your right that its harder to play O-line with ben.....also they have to play it differently.....the tackles deflect more than hold and the guards and center cannot allow interior pressure because ben is great at avoiding outside pressure but not as good at interior

 

Gino will play as well as Pouncey does. The difference however is the fact that Gino will be our 5th best offensive lineman and Pouncey will be your best. Sorry but we may have to agree to disagree on Birk's assessment. I tend to believe Birk's assessment a tad more than I would yours....

Gino playing better than Pouncey is possible because he really has not played but I doubt it......Pouncey has been at the top of the league every year...rated that way by countless players, sportswriters and broadcasters. And I tend to believe their assessment a tad more than yours

[ellicottraven]

I agree with everything you said besides Maurkice being overrated.....but I understand why people say that
 
I also agree with almost everything you said....I will only add that Decastro will be a great guard this year but I cant rank him ahead of KO because he hasn't proven it yet...but once he has I might reconsider
 
also Pouncey is way better than gradkowski....one is unproven and the other has been a probowler every year of his career
 
lol im a lazy Genie it takes me a few hours to come out of the lamp
 
your right that its harder to play O-line with ben.....also they have to play it differently.....the tackles deflect more than hold and the guards and center cannot allow interior pressure because ben is great at avoiding outside pressure but not as good at interior
 
Gino playing better than Pouncey is possible because he really has not played but I doubt it......Pouncey has been at the top of the league every year...rated that way by countless players, sportswriters and broadcasters. And I tend to believe their assessment a tad more than yours

Now you are beginning to hurt my feelings... how could you possibly believe broadcasters opinions more than mine? Blasphemy!

[scrock]

Our OL with a healthy and in shape McKinnie on the Left, Oher on the Right, with Yanda, Gino, and KO....should be quite nasty

 

Im not worried at all about Gino stepping in at Center...the other Delaware guy hasnt disappointed yet and I bet the streak continues

[scrock]

the steelers O-line might be pretty good this year too

 

Adams-DD-MP-Foster-Gilbert

 

our center has been a pro-bowler every year

foster has improved into a great guard

DD is expected to be a pro bowl level guard

Adams performed well for a rookie and is expected to be improved this year

Gilbert is our weakest piece but he will be a fine LT this year

 

im not so sure, Ben may not get sacked as much but that has to do with Haley's gameplan of throwing quicker passes, shorter to intermdiate routes...but Ben will still try to run around and extend plays so he will still get whacked

[BMORElegacy]

Yep, the QBs who are considered 'good' usually have quick releases, can hit hot routes, and read blitzes.  All three of those qualities are an OL's best friend.  Because the QB avoids sacks and hits which makes them look good on the stat sheets.
 
Ben, does the opposite, he lets the pressure get to him while he tries to extends plays.  Its the way he handles contact and how he can still make great plays down field which makes him 'good'.   Nobody does it better when plays breakdown.   But his style is not very OL friendly and makes the OL look like the bad guy.

It's ironic. His style of play allows for plays to easily break down, and then he gets credit for making something happen when said play does break down.

[SteelersProphet]

It's ironic. His style of play allows for plays to easily break down, and then he gets credit for making something happen when said play does break down.

 

come on now....you are missing the all important fact that he is successful playing his unique style.....so before you imply that he is a QB who hurts his team by "allowing the play to break down" you have to take into account that by doing what he does we win games, divisions and championships.....so ill take it he's doing something right

[PuRock]

come on now....you are missing the all important fact that he is successful playing his unique style.....so before you imply that he is a QB who hurts his team by "allowing the play to break down" you have to take into account that by doing what he does we win games, divisions and championships.....so ill take it he's doing something right

 

Agreed.  Ben is unique in that regards.   That's what makes him special.  He can help offset the woes of an offensive line with his toughness and ability to extend plays.  You always know on any down or situation, Ben has a chance of making something happen.  

 

I sort of look at him like one of those movies that is so bad, its good.  

[SteelersProphet]

Agreed.  Ben is unique in that regards.   That's what makes him special.  He can help offset the woes of an offensive line with his toughness and ability to extend plays.  You always know on any down or situation, Ben has a chance of making something happen.  

 

I sort of look at him like one of those movies that is so bad, its good.  

lol I love those movies......and I see the comparison

[BMORElegacy]

come on now....you are missing the all important fact that he is successful playing his unique style.....so before you imply that he is a QB who hurts his team by "allowing the play to break down" you have to take into account that by doing what he does we win games, divisions and championships.....so ill take it he's doing something right

His style of play is detrimental to the team when he exposes himself to harm and injury. If he can't stay on the field (which is something he's struggled with as of late) how do you expect him to win games...

[scrock]

come on now....you are missing the all important fact that he is successful playing his unique style.....so before you imply that he is a QB who hurts his team by "allowing the play to break down" you have to take into account that by doing what he does we win games, divisions and championships.....so ill take it he's doing something right

 

He's also been successful at not completing a full season but one time, and I'd wager he'll be successful in having his career shortened by all the punishment he takes...still a good QB but he could have played longer if not for his style and such a poor OL for so many years.

 

its odd, the steelers organization is thought to be one of the best yet they didnt do enough to fortify the OL and protect their QB...

[SteelersProphet]

His style of play is detrimental to the team when he exposes himself to harm and injury. If he can't stay on the field (which is something he's struggled with as of late) how do you expect him to win games...

but its his style of play that got us to three Superbowls ....ever heard the expression "double edged sword" Ben is one. his style sometimes puts us in unfavorable situations....but it also wins us championships. ill take it, and so would about 25 other teams in the NFL right now.

 

He's also been successful at not completing a full season but one time, and I'd wager he'll be successful in having his career shortened by all the punishment he takes...still a good QB but he could have played longer if not for his style and such a poor OL for so many years.

 

its odd, the steelers organization is thought to be one of the best yet they didnt do enough to fortify the OL and protect their QB...

 

Terry Bradshaw only played 14 seasons, but he delivered 4 Superbowls.....that's success

 

Ben is entering his 10th season if he plays 5 more seasons ill be happy with his career......is he wins one more ring in that time he is a lock first ballot hall of famer.....ill take it

 

also as other posters have said.....its hard to play O-line for Ben

 

you cant have it both ways either our line is bad and ben just plays his best.....or ben's style causes our line to look bad

 

because if bens style makes it difficult to protect him(which I think is the case) than how can you judge them under the same guidelines you would judge other lines

[beasy2487]

Man. Definitely some purple koolaid coming from Birk but I'll take it. Given the agonizing process it's been patching an o-line together in the post-JO era, the simple fact that someone can say the Ravens will have a top-5 O-line going into a season and not get laughed out of the studio is blessing as far as I'm concerned.

[BMORElegacy]

but its his style of play that got us to three Superbowls ....ever heard the expression "double edged sword" Ben is one. his style sometimes puts us in unfavorable situations....but it also wins us championships. ill take it, and so would about 25 other teams in the NFL right now.
 
 
Terry Bradshaw only played 14 seasons, but he delivered 4 Superbowls.....that's success
 
Ben is entering his 10th season if he plays 5 more seasons ill be happy with his career......is he wins one more ring in that time he is a lock first ballot hall of famer.....ill take it
 
also as other posters have said.....its hard to play O-line for Ben
 
you cant have it both ways either our line is bad and ben just plays his best.....or ben's style causes our line to look bad
 
because if bens style makes it difficult to protect him(which I think is the case) than how can you judge them under the same guidelines you would judge other lines

Your defense won you championships. Ben's first super bowl performance was abysmal to say it gently. And now that the defense is getting in line for their AARP cards you've had up and down seasons. Ups when Ben can produce and stay healthy. Downs when he can't. And with the way he plays and the historically poor play of his line, I'd wager that he continues to see time not spent on the field and time on the injury report.

[SteelersProphet]

Your defense won you championships. Ben's first super bowl performance was abysmal to say it gently. And now that the defense is getting in line for their AARP cards you've had up and down seasons. Ups when Ben can produce and stay healthy. Downs when he can't. And with the way he plays and the historically poor play of his line, I'd wager that he continues to see time not spent on the field and time on the injury report.

lol it would really be helpful if I could mass PM the answer to this argument to everyone on this board because im tired of typing it over and over again..........do ravens fans get this argument from some flyer or something they hand out at home games

 

any other time id post up here our defensive rankings all the years without Ben or Bradshaw.....but ive done it so many times you can probably find it if you search the boards....so ill just skip to the conclusion

 

we have had great defenses for 50 years......we have had 10 number one rankings. more than any team

 

but the only times we won Superbowls are with those two quarterbacks....not with Slash.....not with Maddox.....if any decent QB and our defense can win Superbowls we would have a lot more Superbowls

[baltravens]

but its his style of play that got us to three Superbowls ....ever heard the expression "double edged sword" Ben is one. his style sometimes puts us in unfavorable situations....but it also wins us championships. ill take it, and so would about 25 other teams in the NFL right now.

 

 

Terry Bradshaw only played 14 seasons, but he delivered 4 Superbowls.....that's success

 

Ben is entering his 10th season if he plays 5 more seasons ill be happy with his career......is he wins one more ring in that time he is a lock first ballot hall of famer.....ill take it

 

also as other posters have said.....its hard to play O-line for Ben

 

you cant have it both ways either our line is bad and ben just plays his best.....or ben's style causes our line to look bad

 

because if bens style makes it difficult to protect him(which I think is the case) than how can you judge them under the same guidelines you would judge other lines

Hey, I see you so much posting on our board. Are you really wanting to come on over to a team that is on the up-and-up and join a more classy Raven's football family?

[SteelersProphet]

Hey, I see you so much posting on our board. Are you really wanting to come on over to a team that is on the up-and-up and join a more classy Raven's football family?

 

sure......do you have something I need to sign?

[baltravens]

sure......do you have something I need to sign?

No, just change your avatar (to anything positive related to the Ravens) as a better way for us all to see you are with us.