Why has Elvis Dumervil become slightly disrespected?

[Ravenseconbeast]

I don't think Elvis is disrespected. His been a proven player for a lot of years. Obviously players respects him. Ozzie and our FO respected him to give him a big contract even @ his age.

The reason why Broncos made a move to cut Doom's salary is b/c of Von Miller's rise to stardom. It didn't make sense for Broncos to pay a top-tier money for a pass rusher that set the edge @ the right side. Ravens just happen to be in the right time to scoop up Dumervil when opportunity presented itself.

[gabefergy]

If he were to get 20 he would presumably be playing well enough in an all around fashion as a full time starter in order to have enough snaps so I don't it would be hurting us otherwise he wouldn't be on the field so much in that hypothetical scenario.

Well this hypothetical scenario isn't going to happen because he is a below average run defender. Considering the monster Upshaw is against the run I doubt he gets more than 600-700 snaps on defense. Granted this will keep him fresher for pass-rushing, but it still will make it difficult to amass those numbers.

[5aiah]

If he were to get 20 he would presumably be playing well enough in an all around fashion as a full time starter in order to have enough snaps so I don't it would be hurting us otherwise he wouldn't be on the field so much in that hypothetical scenario.

 

 but this is more likely:

 

Well this hypothetical scenario isn't going to happen because he is a below average run defender. Considering the monster Upshaw is against the run I doubt he gets more than 600-700 snaps on defense. Granted this will keep him fresher for pass-rushing, but it still will make it difficult to amass those numbers.

We want him nice and fresh every pass rush because we have the personnel to make that happen. 

[Bruce_Almty]

Our pass rush is so lethal.

 

lol ... you forgot to say ON PAPER 

 

You should withhold your praise until after they actually do something on the field.

[Gordo52]

lol ... you forgot to say ON PAPER

You should withhold your praise until after they actually do something on the field.

You're right.

[Gordo52]

lol ... you forgot to say ON PAPER

You should withhold your praise until after they actually do something on the field.

You're right.

[Gordo52]

lol ... you forgot to say ON PAPER

You should withhold your praise until after they actually do something on the field.

You're right.

[Tiz]

if you check out my earlier posts you will see why its extremely unlikely that he gets 20 and why playing full time to get 20 is a bad idea. Unless you saying he could get 20 as a part time player, which in that case would be historic and truly prove Baltimore's dominance.

Really because if you check out my other post you would see that I had agreed that with our rotation he won't get it.
There's a difference between saying he won't due to rotation and saying he isn't that type of player to be able to

[PurpleCityLights]

He's a Raven now. Question answered.

This.

[poescrows]

Disagree his lack of respect has been around from day 1
Liked him coming out of college but many pundits didnt think highly of him then.
He isn't flashy but he defiantly so productive so he doesn't get the love that others do.

Pundits didn't think highly of him? Isn't flashy? Sounds alot like another Raven....Flacco. The guy has done nothing but set NFL records and get a SB MPV award, but those same pundits still say Ryan and Romo are better QBs. *sigh*

[Sami84]

Im going to take a stab here. I say he will get 13-15 sacks this year. yup. I think he will be more motivated then ever and at 29 is at the peak of his career.

[Ravensfan23]

Ok I just wanna say first of all I think he will be a huge success in our system and i think he will be amazing in the lockeroom and will help the Ravens develop young guys like Upshaw. But this is why he won't hit 20 bro. He is more of a situational pass rusher who needs to be kept fresh. Yes he is slightly better at stopping the run than kruger, but that's a backhanded compliment. These advanced statistics articles back me up that his production isn't as stellar as his reputation would have you to believe.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/12/13/marquee-matchups-opposite-ends/        

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/refo-chiefs-broncos-week-17/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/02/28/performance-based-value-denver-broncos/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agents-denver-broncos/

The first is why he has fallen.

The second explains Dumervil has a Run Stop Percentage of 4.7%, which is in the bottom 10 for 4-3 defensive ends.

The third is in regards to his previous pay, and lets you know the behind the scenes of why he took a paycut, or tried to.

The fourth has his overall rating in regards to other FAs on the team.

 

I hope Doom gets 20 sacks but he won't be full time on the field(thats a good thing) and he could be a target and giveaway for smart QBs so it is highly doubtful.

 

Here's a pretty good article that may help to clear up some of the reasons Dumervil numbers are what they are. It's long but has some good views.

 

I agree that 20 sacks is a high number, hell it's high for anyone. But he does have the natural talent to produce a number that high. But reaching it is another story.

[5aiah]

Really because if you check out my other post you would see that I had agreed that with our rotation he won't get it.
There's a difference between saying he won't due to rotation and saying he isn't that type of player to be able to

Oh the rotation is just a part of it. The advanced statistics was what I was using to back up my point that he isn't even that type of player able to do so at this point.

[5aiah]

Here's a pretty good article that may help to clear up some of the reasons Dumervil numbers are what they are. It's long but has some good views.

 

I agree that 20 sacks is a high number, hell it's high for anyone. But he does have the natural talent to produce a number that high. But reaching it is another story.

That's an excellent article, thanks.

[Tiz]

Pundits didn't think highly of him? Isn't flashy? Sounds alot like another Raven....Flacco. The guy has done nothing but set NFL records and get a SB MPV award, but those same pundits still say Ryan and Romo are better QBs. *sigh*

So you agree that elvis' lack of respect has started before he was a raven or are you one that thinks it has begun now?
Your post seems more along the lines of thinking he is a fit here because of how much disrespect he has faced on his career.

[poescrows]

So you agree that elvis' lack of respect has started before he was a raven or are you one that thinks it has begun now?
Your post seems more along the lines of thinking he is a fit here because of how much disrespect he has faced on his career.

Neither. My response to the quoted post, which indicated that Doom goes about his business without being flashy about it, was why he wasn't getting respect from the pundits and talking heads. I was pointing out that those same idiots never gave, and some still don't give, Flacco any love for the same reason.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm going to take a stab at predicting Dumervil's sack count.

We play the AFC East, NFC North, Houston Texans and Denver Broncos this year.

Starting with the Patriots they have Solder and Vollmer at OT. Pretty nice exterior. Considering that in addition to the fact that I expect the Patriots to run more than before I believe Dumervil won't have his best game that game.
Patriots: 0

Next is the Houston Texans. They have an elite left side but their right struggles. Rookie RT historically struggle and I'm not sure Williams will be different. Unless something changes here and Brooks or Jones improves I thinly Dumervil will have a good game this game despite having Arian Foster. Now signing Leach can help but it won't solve all their issues.
Texans: 1 sack

The Denver Broncos have a terrific OL and while you can say Dumervil has practiced against them they've also practiced against him. I actually like Elvis in this game and think he'll have a good game because while I like Hillman and the other RB Denver has I think Peyton will throw it more early on in the year.
Broncos: 1 sack

As for the rest of the AFC East: I see Elvis playing well against the Jets and Dolphins due to lack of run game or due to a weak OL on the right side respectively. I think the Bills give him a tough time. Their OL is underrated and they have a very good run game.
Jets: 0.5 sacks
Dolphins: 1 sack
Bills: 0
Total: 1.5 sacks

AFC North: I think Elvis will do well against the Bengals even with Smith at RT. I think he'll struggle against the Browns with their OL and RB and OC. I like the Steelers OL and run game and even Ben but I don't think it'll be good enough. I think he'll do okay.
Bengals: 1 sack
Browns: 0
Steelers: 1 sack
Total: 2 sacks

NFC North: I think Elvis will dominate the Lions. I think he'll play well against the Packers. I think he'll be embarrassed against the Vikings. I see him playing okay against the Bears.
Bears: 1 sack
Lions: 2.5 sacks
Vikings: 0
Packers: 1 sack
Total: 4.5 sacks

10 sacks

Not a bad total at all

[RavenDomination87]

I shouldnt have to rationally explain why he won't get 20 sacks. That's an absurd number. He had one year in his career where he has even approached that mark, and to be honest he is a hot and cold pass rusher. He's not the kind of guy who is consistently getting pressure but he has a few games where he just dominates. Its true that he has a great DL around him, but suggesting 20 sacks is just wishful thinking.

 

20 is unrealistically high I agree. I say 12-14 though. Somebody is going to have a monster sack year and it's either going to be Suggs or Dumervil. Also, I don't think the FO brought Dumervil in just to have him on the field in situational moments. He will get the majority of the snaps, but Upshaw will see a lot of playing time. Still though, I think both Suggs and Dumervil can have 10+ sacks this season. Our pass rush this year will be beast!!

[GrimCoconut]

20 is unrealistically high I agree. I say 12-14 though. Somebody is going to have a monster sack year and it's either going to be Suggs or Dumervil. Also, I don't think the FO brought Dumervil in just to have him on the field in situational moments. He will get the majority of the snaps, but Upshaw will see a lot of playing time. Still though, I think both Suggs and Dumervil can have 10+ sacks this season. Our pass rush this year will be beast!!

Now I don't remember the contract details but I do have a vague memory of them. Doesn't Elvis have like 9M in incentives which are reached by posting something like 12 sacks a year or something?

Now I'm not saying we'll ever short ourselves in the games by making him stay under that number to avoid the incentives but perhaps we gave him that inventive because we know he'll be in a rotation with Upshaw due to him being weak against the run?

If someone can look up what the incentive requirements are for his contract I'd appreciate it as I'm on mobile and I'm having a hard time finding it.

[CARavensFan]

I think Dumervil started getting disrespected last year when Von Miller started blowing up, people missed the fact that Dummervil's presence helped him greatly. I think he is also underrated because he is undersized and he picked the Ravens over the other teams chasing him. He came here and people forgot what he did in Denver.

[justifythegame]

Here's a pretty good article that may help to clear up some of the reasons Dumervil numbers are what they are. It's long but has some good views.

 

I agree that 20 sacks is a high number, hell it's high for anyone. But he does have the natural talent to produce a number that high. But reaching it is another story.

 

If anyone hasn't read that, then they should. It pretty much answers the topic and explains why he could be elite again in a 34.

[scrock]

His weakness is defending the run so he gets downgraded against guys like Suggs who can do both, rush the passer and stop the run.

 

Doom will be just fine as long as he is healthy and teams with Suggs to terrorize QBs

[Ravensfan23]

If anyone hasn't read that, then they should. It pretty much answers the topic and explains why he could be elite again in a 34.

 

Agreed. Based off that article it seems the Broncos used Dumervile to create better matchups for Von Miller. Now with Suggs, Ngata, Canty and others Dumervile doesn't have to create matchups for others instead he'll actually benefit from those guys. It should be fun.

[Purple Nurple]

Can't wait!

[1/28/01]

I hear this stuff and it just reminds me that we have him on our roster. Silly!!

[display name]

He's a Raven now. Question answered.

Almost word for word what I was gonna say. Dameshek left him off the AFC North all-Star team that he did, and people are more focused on other teams in the division. Our D is really going to be a scary again. Ray will be proud.

[Ravensfan23]

Now I don't remember the contract details but I do have a vague memory of them. Doesn't Elvis have like 9M in incentives which are reached by posting something like 12 sacks a year or something?

Now I'm not saying we'll ever short ourselves in the games by making him stay under that number to avoid the incentives but perhaps we gave him that inventive because we know he'll be in a rotation with Upshaw due to him being weak against the run?

If someone can look up what the incentive requirements are for his contract I'd appreciate it as I'm on mobile and I'm having a hard time finding it.

 

Only 2M is guaranteed. If he hits 12 sacks then the Ravens have to pay him a extra 2M. The other 7M is in escalators. I don't think it has anything to do with being in a rotation, I think it's just giving a guy is more reason to reach his production numbers. I don't think the Ravens would mind paying a extra 2M for 12 sacks from Dumervile. It's a tough number to hit but definitely a reachable one.

[GrimCoconut]

Only 2M is guaranteed. If he hits 12 sacks then the Ravens have to pay him a extra 2M. The other 7M is in escalators. I don't think it has anything to do with being in a rotation, I think it's just giving a guy is more reason to reach his production numbers. I don't think the Ravens would mind paying a extra 2M for 12 sacks from Dumervile. It's a tough number to hit but definitely a reachable one.

Oh no I don't disagree. I just think that the Ravens could have looked at his deal when making it and have him the escalator of 12 sacks because they know it'll bet tough. I know they'll be more than happy to pay it lol. That would mean great things. I just think they might have considered that during the contract.

And thanks for looking it up!

[YYZ66]

So PFF has him ranked as average.  Wow.....

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Daily-depth-Ravens.png

[rafahash]

He's a Raven now. Question answered.

 

That's it.