"Who Stays and Who Goes?" - Cornerback Edition

[rmw10]

Interesting. I like Lee a lot, but I can't discredit Johnson. I based my gut call on Johnson making the team because of how Harbaugh loves those veteran guys with leadership and good stories. Last year he had Considine because of questions at the safety position in addition to wanting to improve ST. Considine wasn't good at all on defense, but he played decent if not above average on ST. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson makes the team and why I think he will make the team.

I was thinking beyond Brown. If we left Johnson out, we'd likely have 2 of Jackson, Anthony, and Lee, all of which are supposedly pretty raw still.

[rmw10]

Oops sorry Grim, quoted the wrong post lol

[GrimCoconut]

I was thinking beyond Brown. If we left Johnson out, we'd likely have 2 of Jackson, Anthony, and Lee, all of which are supposedly pretty raw still.

Yeah, but Chykie wasn't very proven either until he stepped onto the field. I get your point. I'm just saying just because a guy is proven doesn't mean he'll be the dude. We are conservative but we'll play guys too. I think Asa will be eased into it. I think our backup plan is Huff at CB if someone goes down. We have the gift of having another player for four games because of Thompson, of whom I expect reactivated when he's off of the suspension. 

 

I also think McClain will start on PUP. 

[5aiah]

If I had to put together a list today. It would be. Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown, Johnson and Jackson on the 53 with Anthony on the PS and Moe

 

I'm not sure where all the Moe Lee love is coming from. TA mentioned the kid had a pretty good OTA but football isn't played in shorts. He's gonna to show and prove once the pads come on. Then you also have to look at the depth in front of him. We saw Omar Brown play as close to lights out in the preseason as one can last year and not make the 53. So I'd much rather see Moe in action first because i start pushing him up that depth chart.

 

Right now I'd give Jackson the edge over Anthony just because of his ST abilities. He's an smaller CB that probably only has a home inside. So nickle, Dime and Quarter packages are where he'll probably see the field most, but the Ravens have a lot of guys that already excel in those areas. Webb, Graham and Brown. But now that I think about it, the same things were said about Webb and Brown and both guys have done a pretty good job outside the numbers. So i'm gonna be careful to put limitations on Asa.

 

 

Moe Lee is just different then the other CBs near the bottom. He's very technical, has size, and good zone awareness all in one. Chykie has really struggled in zone but he's gonna make it anyway, and Johnson is a speedy vet so I'm sure he is in too. Moe is also the underdog by way of being undrafted as well as his limited speed so he is easy to root for. Also I think Moe is a guy that can thrive in our defense when he might not be able to in many other places Hopefully that keeps other teams from taking a crack at him if we don't stash him. He has the excellent markings of a dark horse, though you do make great points. It's just he was originally a receiver in college, has great zone awareness, is the physical press type, overlooked because of speed limitations, and has a huge chip on his shoulder. Sounds like a guy we been hearing about all year.... 

[rmw10]

Yeah, but Chykie wasn't very proven either until he stepped onto the field. I get your point. I'm just saying just because a guy is proven doesn't mean he'll be the dude. We are conservative but we'll play guys too. I think Asa will be eased into it. I think our backup plan is Huff at CB if someone goes down. We have the gift of having another player for four games because of Thompson, of whom I expect reactivated when he's off of the suspension. 

 

I also think McClain will start on PUP. 

 

Oh absolutely.  Huff is a good point, but for the sake of this exercise, I wanted to kind of ignore that and go by a player's primary position.  I really do think Johnson makes it though, since he's a Harbaugh type of player.

 

 

And just as a side note, not directed at you Grim, I don't buy the whole "we don't cut draft picks" thing.  In 2009, we cut Davon Drew and Cedric Peerman.  Different era?  Sure, but we usually don't have this many draft picks, so I really think it will be difficult to find a spot for all of them, even on IR against the tight cap.

[gabefergy]

Interesting. I like Lee a lot, but I can't discredit Johnson. I based my gut call on Johnson making the team because of how Harbaugh loves those veteran guys with leadership and good stories. Last year he had Considine because of questions at the safety position in addition to wanting to improve ST. Considine wasn't good at all on defense, but he played decent if not above average on ST. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson makes the team and why I think he will make the team.

Harbaugh had a prior relationship with Considine with ST though. The same is not true with Johnson and I am not sure how is a STer.

[GrimCoconut]

Harbaugh had a prior relationship with Considine with ST though. The same is not true with Johnson and I am not sure how is a STer.

Yeah I can't remember if Johnson played on ST or not. I thought I saw him on ST at some point but maybe I hallucinated again lol

[Ravensfan23]

Moe Lee is just different then the other CBs near the bottom. He's very technical, has size, and good zone awareness all in one. Chykie has really struggled in zone but he's gonna make it anyway, and Johnson is a speedy vet so I'm sure he is in too. Moe is also the underdog by way of being undrafted as well as his limited speed so he is easy to root for. Also I think Moe is a guy that can thrive in our defense when he might not be able to in many other places Hopefully that keeps other teams from taking a crack at him if we don't stash him. He has the excellent markings of a dark horse, though you do make great points. It's just he was originally a receiver in college, has great zone awareness, is the physical press type, overlooked because of speed limitations, and has a huge chip on his shoulder. Sounds like a guy we been hearing about all year.... 

 

Oh I don't deny that there is talent there, but I'm seeing people pushing Moe Lee up over the likes of Johnson and Jackson. While it is definitely possible for him to come into camp and play lights out, I get the feeling that most are just dropping his name because TA said the guy is impressive. Right now he's a developmental guy who's fighting for PS imo. Again he could prove me wrong and show the ability to be relied on early, but I see Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown and Johnson as locks. That 6 and probably final CB will have to be a standout on ST to make the team imo. So maybe that's a area he can leap frog a couple guys and make the 53. I just don't see him as one of those guys that you make a tough decision on when selecting 50-53.

[Ravensfan23]

Yeah I can't remember if Johnson played on ST or not. I thought I saw him on ST at some point but maybe I hallucinated again lol

 

Johnson did play on ST but it wasn't a lot as injuries limited him to only 4 games. He was a solid STer in Oakland and i'm sure he'll probably be asked to play teams this year if he makes the roster. I can't imagine both Jimmy and Corey continuing to play a major role on ST if they are gonna be relied on to be 2 of the top 3 CBs. So Johnson will definitely have to get back to his ST days.

[GrimCoconut]

Johnson did play on ST but it wasn't a lot as injuries limited him to only 4 games. He was a solid STer in Oakland and i'm sure he'll probably be asked to play teams this year if he makes the roster. I can't imagine both Jimmy and Corey continuing to play a major role on ST if they are gonna be relied on to be 2 of the top 3 CBs. So Johnson will definitely have to get back to his ST days.

Ahhhh then if that is the case I definitely think he's a lock even more than before

[5aiah]

Oh I don't deny that there is talent there, but I'm seeing people pushing Moe Lee up over the likes of Johnson and Jackson. While it is definitely possible for him to come into camp and play lights out, I get the feeling that most are just dropping his name because TA said the guy is impressive. Right now he's a developmental guy who's fighting for PS imo. Again he could prove me wrong and show the ability to be relied on early, but I see Webb, Smith, Graham, Brown and Johnson as locks. That 6 and probably final CB will have to be a standout on ST to make the team imo. So maybe that's a area he can leap frog a couple guys and make the 53. I just don't see him as one of those guys that you make a tough decision on when selecting 50-53.

We agree on most. Lol. I see people acting like Johnson isn't the fastest corner on the team and a fine cover guy to boot. That and he is a veteran who can be relied on in a pinch. That's the reason we signed him in the first place I thought, and had been looking to trade for him year before that. I agree first 5 guys are a lock and if the 6th guy is surely a ST guy then Asa might be sitting pretty since that's his strong suit. It's more a conversation on the 6th being a ST guy or someone who can contribute coverage wise. Also agree on the name dropping bit for sure, but when you look at his profile he seems like that guy we could really use when we are zone blitzing and could be our nickel/dime back of the future (despite his lack of straight line speed) now that the passing game is evolving toward TEs and slot receivers. I may be practice squad for now but I know football :)  

[Ravenseconbeast]

Moe Lee is a p.s. even if he stands out imo.

 

Asa Jackson is probably the most realistic guy to get cut if we are squeezed to find a room for another player

[Ravensfan23]

We agree on most. Lol. I see people acting like Johnson isn't the fastest corner on the team and a fine cover guy to boot. That and he is a veteran who can be relied on in a pinch. That's the reason we signed him in the first place I thought, and had been looking to trade for him year before that. I agree first 5 guys are a lock and if the 6th guy is surely a ST guy then Asa might be sitting pretty since that's his strong suit. It's more a conversation on the 6th being a ST guy or someone who can contribute coverage wise. Also agree on the name dropping bit for sure, but when you look at his profile he seems like that guy we could really use when we are zone blitzing and could be our nickel/dime back of the future (despite his lack of straight line speed) now that the passing game is evolving toward TEs and slot receivers. I may be practice squad for now but I know football :)  

 

Well the thing that helps young guys like Jackson, Lee and Anthony is you probably won't be a guy like Johnson for longer then 1 more year at age 33 and another team might just be willing to throw big money at Corey if he has another strong season. So you could be looking at your top CBs in 2014 Webb, Smith and Brown. Imo that opens the door for young guys to show and prove this year and place themselves firmly in the minds of coaches and evaluators as developmental guys for next year.

 

I personally think that Asa has the potential to be the punt returner of the future. As much as we all love Jacoby, I think if younger guys step up at WR this might be his final year. Both DT and Reed have shown that they are good Kick Returners and other then Jacoby, Webby has proven to be our best returner. We definitely won't allow him to return punts anymore, I don't think, so having a strong showing at Punt Returner might be what allows Asa to stick around even if he's outplayed at CB early on.

 

Johnson is a quality cover guy, he just struggled with injury last season and that ontop of not playing football in a while slowed him down. I expect him to be much better this year and will compete with Brown for that 4th CB spot imo.

[Ravensfan23]

Moe Lee is a p.s. even if he stands out imo.

 

Asa Jackson is probably the most realistic guy to get cut if we are squeezed to find a room for another player

 

why? You won't keep less then 5 CBs so if you believe that the top 4 are Webb, Smith, Graham and Brown, that would leave Johnson, Jackson, Anthony, Lee, and a few other UDFAs. Lee and Anthony have shown nothing because they haven't even had a real practice yet. So that would leave Johnson vs Jackson.

 

Johnson is a 33 year old CB in his last years and signed to a 1yr deal. Jackson is a full decade younger at age 23 and is a very talented guy. If Ozzie is to be believed that he's looking to keep the Ravens competitive well into the future, I'm not sure how Johnson would stick over Jackson.

 

So why is Jackson the most realistic guy to get cut if room needs to be made for another player?

[gabefergy]

Ahhhh then if that is the case I definitely think he's a lock even more than before

I still don't see him as a lock. The younger players could easily out play him. Johnson is far from a special talent.... ST or in the secondary.

[Ravensfan23]

I still don't see him as a lock. The younger players could easily out play him. Johnson is far from a special talent.... ST or in the secondary.

 

Veteran experience isn't all it's cracked up to be, especially with Harbs. Lets remember that Chris Carr was benched and released 1 year after signing a fairly decent deal. So you are most certainly correct in thinking that Johnson isn't a lock. Michael Huff is really like a Ace in the hole. If there is a need for a veteran CB for whatever reason, Huff can fill that viod and have Elam and Digg as the top safeties.

 

Actually the more and more I think about it, I think it'll be tough for Johnson to make the team. He's not a lock and if he falls in that 50-53 range when final rosters are decided, I can't see keeping Johnson over a young guys who they really like and don't wanna risk losing. Now the suspension to Thompson might allow him to make the initial roster, but once the 4 games are over he'd probably be cut. If guys like Omar Brown and Anthony Levine both play really well in camp and preseason. I can see the Ravens keeping maybe 5 CBs with Huff being a guy who can slide down and 6 Safeties.

[flaccopoe]

I'm not sure how I feel about Chykie Brown. He's looked decent in the limitedtime that he was on the field, but he gets too many penalties for my tastes. He has gotten fwd past the point of being a liability, though.

 

My feelings exactly!

[GrimCoconut]

I still don't see him as a lock. The younger players could easily out play him. Johnson is far from a special talent.... ST or in the secondary.

They could. I only see him making it because of his leadership and because he's proven. Now that might not matter but that's just how I currently see it. He fits the mold of a guy I would normally say doesn't make it and later makes it and I'm surprised.

[5aiah]

They could. I only see him making it because of his leadership and because he's proven. Now that might not matter but that's just how I currently see it. He fits the mold of a guy I would normally say doesn't make it and later makes it and I'm surprised.

That, his speed, and he made some big plays for us last year. Knocking the ball out to force the fumble in the Pitt game, that was a very smart move. He did alot of good in a short amount of time he was on the field. Those things get him on the team unless another CB steps up coverage wise. I know we big on special teams but still need other guys who can step in and play on defense. If chykie keeps improving(alot) or Asa is ready to step out on defense then Johnson could be gone. If not it would be a huge mistake to cut him.

[NaveSenrag]

I like Johnson's story, but when I think about him the first thing that comes to mind is the Redskins game.

[ravensdan]

I am voting Johnson out. He actually did nothing at all on st last yr. didn't garner a rating of any kind from pff even. To me that leaves Anthony and lee and it is impossible to predict w/o seeing them in action but i am going Anthony for now. The other 5 I don't believe are in question unless one gets injured before the season.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Start of the year:

 

53 man roster:

Webb

Jimmy

Chykie

Graham 

Asa

Anthony

 

Practice Squad:

Moe

 

Cut:

Johnson

[rmw10]

Start of the year:

 

53 man roster:

Webb

Jimmy

Chykie

Graham 

Johnson

Anthony

 

Practice Squad:

Moe

 

Suspended:

Jackson

 

 

When Jackson is activated one of two things will happen.  Anthony will get "injured" and go on IR or, Johnson will get cut.  I think Anthony will go on IR leaving Webb, Jimmy, Graham, Chykie, Johnson, and Asa on the roster.

 

Jackson isn't suspended.  I was referring to his suspension last year.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Jackson isn't suspended.  I was referring to his suspension last year.

 

I feel stupid now.  I guess I was thinking of Thompson.

 

I edited my post to what I think happens.  Another possibility is Anthony gets IR'd and Johnson stays.

[Fred Sanford]

I like Chris Johnson, I didn't know who he was until the Raiders played the Chargers in Nnamdi's last year there.  Rivers was throwing at Johnson all day, but he batted like  6 of 8 passes away, it was nuts.  I knew right then the guy could definitely play. 

 

I noticed his playing time dropped off after the Redskins game, though.  Cousins was looking over the middle, so Johnson like a few other guys dropped off his man.  Kirk just looked right and floated it over his head, though.  Chris said, "I play aggressively, and I'd do it again."  I wasn't so hot on that, given he was all alone in man coverage on the right sideline, and couldn't possibly have stopped a pass 30 yards away in the middle of the field.  The guy is real solid in man to man (normally), but he can't make that kind of silly mistake again or he's gone.

 

I like Chykie, he held up well in that one game they kept throwing at him.  He goes for big hits, which is cool for a corner but often hurts more than helps with penalties.  He did lunge and miss several tackles after his guy caught it which allowed for 20 YAC several times, which is no good.

 

Asa Jackson had great quickness and athleticism, he looked good on some nickel blitzes in preseason though he overran the QB and couldn't get a sack.  His punt return that got called back was phenomenal.  He's slender and not built for press, but guys like Rashean Mathis or Al Harris (or Webb) were skinny but are physical and pressed well, so who knows.  I see him being a good corner for playing off.  His Adderall suspension is just him making a dumb mistake a lot of young guys are doing right now.

[GrimCoconut]

Wow. I didn't know or realize that Chykie Brown was that much older than Jimmy Smith. Thanks for the update rmw10!

[rmw10]

Wow. I didn't know or realize that Chykie Brown was that much older than Jimmy Smith. Thanks for the update rmw10!

 

Yeah I thought that was surprising as well.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I never would have realized he was that old.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah I thought that was surprising as well. Thanks for the suggestion. I never would have realized he was that old.

Yeah especially when Jimmy will be 25 in July and Brown will be 27 in December. I can see us wanting to keep these younger guys around in some way. Some CB really have problems with age.

[PurpleCityLights]

Sorry to say BUT!!!!!! I dont think Webb will be playing at a high level when he returns.

[K-Dog]

Why do you think that?