Ravens release then re-sign FB Vonta Leach

[Guest nflfan123]

I would actually be happy if the Raiders signed him then used Reece as a TE

[GrimCoconut]

Agreed.  Even with the movement away from the FB, teams will still come calling for him.  I'm thinking that he'll have a new team by Friday.

I agree. I know they say the position is a dinosaur, but he's so good that regardless of the position being obsolete there will be a team that will want him. He will have a job very soon. The Packers are unlikely, same with the Vikings, as well as the other few teams with elite or above-average FBs but I think anyone could use him. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if the Bengals got him--well, I would be. I'd be shocked because Brown opened up his wallet, lol. 

[JO_75]

Just read that apparently the Giants are also interested in him. Not too surprised there. He would be a great fit there, or Dallas even. Hell, almost any team needing a FB could use him--the ones that actually do, that is. 

 

I don't think he'll have a hard time finding work. He's the best FB in the league even if he is older. 

 

Hopefully he chooses the Giants over the Dolphins.

[GrimCoconut]

Hopefully he chooses the Giants over the Dolphins.

An interesting development: 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000211358/article/vonta-leach-to-visit-dolphins-prefers-return-to-texans

 

UPDATE: Leach expressed his desire to return to the Texans, the team he played for from 2006 to 2010.

"My first choice would be to come back to Houston," Leach told KRIV-TV on Tuesday. "I know the offense. I know all the guys there. So obviously that would be my first choice so I can go back there and finish my career where it started to blossom.

"That would be a storybook ending."

It would seem that he wants to return home to Houston. Oh God, no. 

[arnie_uk]

If they didnt pay him once I doubt they would again

[Rav'n Maniac]

Correct me if I am wrong but, couldn't this blow up in our faces. Couldn't Leach sign somewhere else for say the vet minimum and then we would be responsible for the remainder of his contract. Isn't that what we did with Doom.

If this ends up being the case, what do we save then by releasing him?

[Grapple Raven]

Vonta Leach's interview on WNST yesterday:

 

http://bit.ly/117jcO2

[Gordo52]

Yeah. Can't wait to see how we play against him if he does go to another team.

I hope he doesn't go to Cleveland. They're losing their patience with Owen.

He's would blow up Arthur Brown. I really don't wanna play against him ever to be honest.

[arnie_uk]

Correct me if I am wrong but, couldn't this blow up in our faces. Couldn't Leach sign somewhere else for say the vet minimum and then we would be responsible for the remainder of his contract. Isn't that what we did with Doom.If this ends up being the case, what do we save then by releasing him?

no to both. Doom was cut, we signed him to an entirely new deal. The only issue with cutting someone is that the guaranteed money that you paid them in one lump sum is split over the number of years remaining in the deal, up to a maximum of five years for cap purposes. So all that's remaining is accelerated. Eg a 5 mil bonus year 1 five yr deal is split by 5/5 ie 1 mil hits the cap each year. If he's cut after two years the remaining three mil accelerates in ful the year he's cut unless you elect for a post June release. Then I think it's just this years portion ie 1 mil hits this year and the remaining, in this example 2 mil hits next year.

The rest of his salary is null and void.

[Rav'n Maniac]

no to both. Doom was cut, we signed him to an entirely new deal. The only issue with cutting someone is that the guaranteed money that you paid them in one lump sum is split over the number of years remaining in the deal, up to a maximum of five years for cap purposes. So all that's remaining is accelerated. Eg a 5 mil bonus year 1 five yr deal is split by 5/5 ie 1 mil hits the cap each year. If he's cut after two years the remaining three mil accelerates in ful the year he's cut unless you elect for a post June release. Then I think it's just this years portion ie 1 mil hits this year and the remaining, in this example 2 mil hits next year.

The rest of his salary is null and void.

Got it. Thanks for answering my questions.

[beanfigger]

Correct me if I am wrong but, couldn't this blow up in our faces. Couldn't Leach sign somewhere else for say the vet minimum and then we would be responsible for the remainder of his contract. Isn't that what we did with Doom.

If this ends up being the case, what do we save then by releasing him?

 

Contracts are not fully guaranteed in the NFL.  Teams can let a player go before his contract is up, and they will not have to pay him any more of that contract, aside from whatever portion is designated as "guaranteed" money.  That's why it doesn't make too much sense to look at total money when a contract is signed, just the guaranteed portion of it (i.e. Flacco will almost certainly not make $120million even if he plays out his contract in Baltimore because a ton of that is not guaranteed.  Only the $50mil is guaranteed.)

[RavensDE]

Opportunity Cost -"What you lose when you choose"

Leach = cap space not cash
- The thing about cutting Leach is that we will use all of our cap space. The Ravens and Biscotti aren't concerned with saving pennies for profit, they use their cap space every year so it's not about saving real dollars its about signing more/different players. (You may remember Biscotti telling Rice last year that any dollar he didn't get would still be spent making the team better.)

Why I thought we'd keep Leach...
-I thought we'd pay Leach because we didn't see a better use for the money. It doesn't matter if he only sees 35% of snaps if he's still the best use of the money then it's in our best interest to keep him. Ozzie and Co must see Ravens players at a Ravens price. (Remember that of his $4mil price tag, $1mil would be dead money so a renegotiation means only about 1-2mil in cap space and cutting him $3mil)

Another missed assumption...
-I also thought that we were deep with talent we want to develop but don't have roster spots for already. I suspect we will be IR'ing quite a few young boys this year and cutting players that land elsewhere. This also led me to believe we wouldn't go after mid-talent cheap vets that I see out there. Daryl Smith is a strong cheap signing at our weakest spot but I don't see to many places where we want a vet on loan over developing someone. Meaning we wouldn't cut Leach...


But we did cut Leach...
-He didn't want to get squeezed for salary/cap space and who can blame him. He no doubt thinks he can make more elsewhere and frankly it is a slap in the face (see Pollard). I believe the Ravens when they say they are open to resigning him...on the cheap... The market value of FBs has to be very low but Leach thinks its higher than the Ravens offer (or his pride is hurt).

We are still making moves for cap space and I'm very curious what/whom for...

Vet WR?
-I think everyone's first thought is Brandon Lloyd. He's a proven vet and shouldn't be too expensive but the Ravens seem to like the competition at WR right now. The team also seems to have a great deal of confidence in Doss and to a lesser extent Reed for some reason. My gut says the talent to price ratio has to be high here or the opposite in that we go with a very professional vet to be a leader.

Something sexy?
-Ozzie doesn't really do sexy. He doesn't take chances and we bet on rising players as per our Pat Moriarty formula for price value. That said we have 53 talented players right now. A lot of youth we typically don't let go of is already on the cusp. Could we be gathering space for a guy like John Abraham? Seems unlikely to me but we'd like a top tier rotational player into an already sick D-line on a one year loan...at a Ravens price...

Something not sexy?
-This seems the most likely option. We are freeing up flexibility as everything remains "fluid" as Oz has taken to saying. Teams are sizing up their draft picks and overall personnel. Many teams are in the habit of cutting players for profit/savings and not just more cap space. On top of that teams are looking at future cap situations wondering if its better to take dead money on a guy sooner or later (when he's high paid and possibly slipping/injured). We could see a lot of good and a few great players looking for a respectable home between now and the beginning of the season. We are respectable and we are contenders every year. Players know that we play who practices the best and not in line with our "team designs" (aka no sitting behind someone you outplay in practice). That all could add up pretty well for a Ravens team that is acquiring as much cap space as possible...

Wait, oppor what?
-So ultimately the Ravens have decided that they have more to lose keeping Leach and paying him a $3mil salary then cutting him and having the space. That is a clear cut example of opportunity cost decision making.

Also...
Dear Vonta Leach,
I will miss you. While I understand what has happened, mostly that you're a tell that we are running or a liability in the pass game, you are the man. A great blocker. A great leader. A beast. A freak of nature. A player that we will say we miss a thousand times this year when no hole opens up. You will be remembered and loved by Baltimore fans (unless you get all salty and say dumb things) and we will miss you. I selfishly hope that no team wants you and you return for the league minimum.

Sincerely,
Ravens DE

[ravensdan]

Just read that apparently the Giants are also interested in him. Not too surprised there. He would be a great fit there, or Dallas even. Hell, almost any team needing a FB could use him--the ones that actually do, that is.

I don't think he'll have a hard time finding work. He's the best FB in the league even if he is older.

I was wondering why the giants when they have hynoski, but apparently he has a knee injury now. He will sign there in a couple days.,,no doubt.

[flaccopoe]

BAL needs to bring Leach back!!!  He was pivotal to the success of the run game and the offense in general, what with his blocking ability.

[The Raven]

BAL needs to bring Leach back!!!  He was pivotal to the success of the run game and the offense in general, what with his blocking ability.

 

Frankly, we were just about as successful without him on the field. Rice and Pierce both ran exceptionally well out of singleback sets.

 

Late in the season and post season, I would say our running game was better out of singleback looks.

[flaccopoe]

Frankly, we were just about as successful without him on the field. Rice and Pierce both ran exceptionally well out of singleback sets.

 

Late in the season and post season, I would say our running game was better out of singleback looks.

 

Someone posted a stat of the running game with and without Leach on the field.  It was much better WITH Leach.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Someone posted a stat of the running game with and without Leach on the field. It was much better WITH Leach.

It was actually about the same YPC wise.

[The Raven]

Someone posted a stat of the running game with and without Leach on the field.  It was much better WITH Leach.

 

Leach on field: Ray Rice 206 att /869 yds /10 TD in '12.
Without? Rice 135 att / 582 yds /1 TD

 

(Stats provided by Purple Punishment)

 

Let's do some math, kids.

 

869 / 206 = 4.21 YPC with Leach

582 / 135 = 4.31 YPC without Leach

 

Clearly much better -_-

 

The difference is negligible.  

 

EDIT: Props to izvoodoo for pointing that out on page ten. You da man.

[flaccopoe]

Leach on field: Ray Rice 206 att /869 yds /10 TD in '12.
Without? Rice 135 att / 582 yds /1 TD

 

(Stats provided by Purple Punishment)

 

Let's do some math, kids.

 

869 / 206 = 4.21 YPC with Leach

582 / 135 = 4.31 YPC without Leach

 

Clearly much better -_-

 

The difference is negligible.  

 

EDIT: Props to izvoodoo for pointing that out on page ten. You da man.

 

BUt Rice averaged a lot more TDs with Leach on the field.

[The Raven]

BUt Rice averaged a lot more TDs with Leach on the field.

 

I'm going to reply to that with three questions.

 

1. What teams run the ball fewer times than they pass it within the five?

 

2. What teams run the ball out of singleback formations within the five yard line?

 

3. Do you expect Cam Cameron not to use a FB on 99% of our goal-line plays?

 

What I'm saying is, the majority of Rice's TDs obviously came from within the redzone, and even more likely, within the five. What personnel do teams use in that situation? Typically, 21, 22, and 23 personnel sets. 

 

Also, Cam was so predictable that when Leach was off the field, it was clearly a pass. So, that also helps explain why Rice had fewer TD runs with Leach off the field.

[SecretAgentMan]

I'm going to reply to that with three questions.

1. What teams run the ball fewer times than they pass it within the five?

2. What teams run the ball out of singleback formations within the five yard line?

3. Do you expect Cam Cameron not to use a FB on 99% of our goal-line plays?

What I'm saying is, the majority of Rice's TDs obviously came from within the redzone, and even more likely, within the five. What personnel do teams use in that situation? Typically, 21, 22, and 23 personnel sets.

Also, Cam was so predictable that when Leach was off the field, it was clearly a pass. So, that also helps explain why Rice had fewer TD runs with Leach off the field.

Poe told me Dumervil wasn't the star he once was bc he got "stonewalled in the playoffs".
Which is what I have to say about his complaining

Honestly, I personally am not worried about Leach leaving because

1. Ozzie has had success with the fullbacks drafted.

2.juice will NEVER leave the field. He's a utility knife. Jack of all trades

3. Reason two does as you said earlier. MAKES OUR OFFENSE LESS PREDICTABLE.

4. Juice is a great blocker in his own right apparently. Has a mean streak to him so I hear(nothing like Leachs', but still he will knock you on your a)

[flaccopoe]

Poe told me Dumervil wasn't the star he once was bc he got "stonewalled in the playoffs".
Which is what I have to say about his complaining

Honestly, I personally am not worried about Leach leaving because

1. Ozzie has had success with the fullbacks drafted.

2.juice will NEVER leave the field. He's a utility knife. Jack of all trades

3. Reason two does as you said earlier. MAKES OUR OFFENSE LESS PREDICTABLE.

4. Juice is a great blocker in his own right apparently. Has a mean streak to him so I hear(nothing like Leachs', but still he will knock you on your a)

 

What does Dumervil have to do with this?  We are discussing Leach and his important role on the BAL offense.  He's been nothing but a boon for a team and it's a cheapskate thing to drop a FB, of all positions.  And who's Juice?

[Guest nflfan123]

What does Dumervil have to do with this?  We are discussing Leach and his important role on the BAL offense.  He's been nothing but a boon for a team and it's a cheapskate thing to drop a FB, of all positions.  And who's Juice?

Kyle J FB drafted in the fourth

[flaccopoe]

Kyle J FB drafted in the fourth

 

He was specifically a fullback in college?

[Guest nflfan123]

He was specifically a fullback in college?

No you asked who Juice was

[SecretAgentMan]

He was specifically a fullback in college?

Utility weapon.
He can do everything cept throw the goddamn ball.

[SecretAgentMan]

No you asked who Juice was

Check your PMS

[flaccopoe]

Check your PMS

 

COuldn't you just text him, since you actually know each other?

[flaccopoe]

Utility weapon.
He can do everything cept throw the damn ball.

 

So he's a decent receiver too?

[SecretAgentMan]

COuldn't you just text him, since you actually know each other?

His phones battery life is virtually nonexistant