Mount Rushmore of Ravens

[Bltravens]

I'd love to know how a team that went 12-4 and more than doubled its opponents in points during the season somehow misses the playoffs with a different kicker.

 

There are plenty of ways to give credit to Stover without outright lying.

Did you watch that team play in 2000?  They went an entire month without scoring an offensive touchdown somehow still won a couple of the games and its not like the defense was throwing up TDs every game.

The defense was legendary but man are you putting them on a pedestal.

[PurplePassion824]

 

Here is mine,

 

Ray Lewis is a given

JO is an all time great

Ed reed was a bit difficult since he plays in a different uniform

Art brought the team here, without him we wouldn't have a team
 

[Guest Moderator 6]

What? There is no factual basis to say the 2000 Ravens would have lost without Stover, and I think it's an insult to the greatest defense of all time to even imply such a thing. The Ravens outscored their playoff opponents 95-23...how do any of those wins turn into losses without Stover? 

As others have said, we would not have been in the playoffs without Stove.  No playoffs = no XXXV.

 

 

Again, no disagreement. I had mentioned him in a post that I deleted. Out of curiosity though

Hypothetcial 1 - What if Ravens win another Super Bowl in the next 2 or 3 years (if not more) with Joe Flacco as our starting QB throughout the season and in the playoffs. Would you then give him any consideration?

 

Hypothetical 2 - What if Suggs won another DPOY doing something that Ed Reed didn't even do even though he got jobbed the season he was a PUP. Would he get consideration?

 

Hypothetical 1; Yes.

Hypothetical 2; probably.

 

But these are just hypotheticals.  While I hope they come true, they can't be considered at this point.

 

As far as Ozzie vs. Matt, it depends on what you use Mt. Rushmore for.  I considered it just players.

[GTRavens]

Did you watch that team play in 2000?  They went an entire month without scoring an offensive touchdown somehow still won a couple of the games and its not like the defense was throwing up TDs every game.

The defense was legendary but man are you putting them on a pedestal.

And like I said before, we lost most of the games in that streak anyway. So that's a moot point. In one of the two games we won, we shut out the Browns, so unless our replacement kicker is 0-4 that win doesn't turn into a loss without Stover. There's only one game in the streak that's even arguable.

 

As others have said, we would not have been in the playoffs without Stover.  No playoffs = no XXXV.

Prove that we wouldn't have made the playoffs, then. Unless you can provide some concrete evidence, it's an empty statement based entirely in fiction. So tell me: which wins that season would have turned into losses if we replaced Stover with, say, an average kicker?

[Guest Moderator 6]

And like I said before, we lost most of the games in that streak anyway. So that's a moot point. In one of the two games we won, we shut out the Browns, so unless our replacement kicker is 0-4 that win doesn't turn into a loss without Stover. There's only one game in the streak that's even arguable.

 

Prove that we wouldn't have made the playoffs, then. Unless you can provide some concrete evidence, it's an empty statement based entirely in fiction. So tell me: which wins that season would have turned into losses if we replaced Stover with, say, an average kicker?

I don't see the point in discussing this with you.

[The Raven]

Just saying, if Stover is on the theoretical Ravens Mount Rushmore, I see no reason Joe shouldn't be.

 

Just as we (theoretically) wouldn't have made it to Superbowl 35 without Stover, we wouldn't have made it to or won Superbowl 47 without Joe.

[gabefergy]

Just saying, if Stover is on the theoretical Ravens Mount Rushmore, I see no reason Joe shouldn't be.

Just as we (theoretically) wouldn't have made it to Superbowl 35 without Stover, we wouldn't have made it to or won Superbowl 47 without Joe.

Stover was great, but couldn't another kicker filled that role? At the end if the day he is just a kicker. Flacco had one of the all time great playoff runs at the most important position on the field.

[The Raven]

Stover was great, but couldn't another kicker filled that role? At the end if the day he is just a kicker. Flacco had one of the all time great playoff runs at the most important position on the field.

 

Agreed completely. 

[GTRavens]

I don't see the point in discussing this with you.

Then retract what you said. You can't just say things that are blatantly false to inflate a player's legacy.

[IH EART DA RAVENS]

Ray, Ed, JO, and Stover for Mount Rushmore.

 

Art will get a statue a la Ab Lincoln Statue. Ozzie can be our Statue of Liberty, instead of holding a torch he'll hold a Lombardi trophy with SB XXXV 1/28/01 and SB XLVII 2/3/13 etched into it.

 

Flacco, Rice, Ngata, Suggs, Harbaugh, Bisciotti, etc. can be on the money. Everyone's covered.

 

Raven Nation. 

Genius

[arnie_uk]

Then retract what you said. You can't just say things that are blatantly false to inflate a player's legacy.

you can't talk to god, I mean a mod like that. Who do you think you are?

[Tank 92]

Art. There would be no Ravens if not for him.
Ozzie. He's the best, and he is a Raven.
Ray and JO. The original Raven HOFers.

Only room for four and there's no argument to exclude any of these.

[GTRavens]

you can't talk to god, I mean a mod like that. Who do you think you are?

Let me clarify what I was saying before, so it doesn't just come across as me saying everyone is wrong and bashing them in the head for saying something nice about Stover.

 

8 of Baltimore's 12 wins in the 2000 regular season (as well as all of their playoff wins) were decided by 10+ points. Only 4 were close enough where a kicker could make a difference:

 

Jacksonville (39-36, Stover made 1 field goal from 44 yards out)

@ Jacksonville (15-10, Stover made 5 field goals from 21, 24, 32, 43 and 47 yards)

@ Tennessee (24-23, Stover made 1 field goal from 45 yards out)

@ Arizona (13-7, Stover made 2 field goals both from 42 yards)

 

It would be true to say that Stover came through in all four games. However, if we're going to say that they miss the playoffs without Stover, that relies on a few assumptions:

 

1) The Ravens would have to lose ALL four games (based on how the standings played out that year)

2) Whoever they replace Stover with has to miss EVERY field goal in 3 of the 4 games, plus 2 of 5 kicks in the road Jacksonville game.

3) On top of that, Baltimore still has to lose in overtime against Jacksonville and Arizona.

 

It just doesn't add up. It's great that we appreciate Stover and it's nice to look at what he did contribute in 2000 (and he was great that year), but the Ravens were just too dominant in 2000 for that particular statement to hold true. That's all I meant.

[beanfigger]

Let me clarify what I was saying before, so it doesn't just come across as me saying everyone is wrong and bashing them in the head for saying something nice about Stover.

 

8 of Baltimore's 12 wins in the 2000 regular season (as well as all of their playoff wins) were decided by 10+ points. Only 4 were close enough where a kicker could make a difference:

 

Jacksonville (39-36, Stover made 1 field goal from 44 yards out)

@ Jacksonville (15-10, Stover made 5 field goals from 21, 24, 32, 43 and 47 yards)

@ Tennessee (24-23, Stover made 1 field goal from 45 yards out)

@ Arizona (13-7, Stover made 2 field goals both from 42 yards)

 

It would be true to say that Stover came through in all four games. However, if we're going to say that they miss the playoffs without Stover, that relies on a few assumptions:

 

1) The Ravens would have to lose ALL four games (based on how the standings played out that year)

2) Whoever they replace Stover with has to miss EVERY field goal in 3 of the 4 games, plus 2 of 5 kicks in the road Jacksonville game.

3) On top of that, Baltimore still has to lose in overtime against Jacksonville and Arizona.

 

It just doesn't add up. It's great that we appreciate Stover and it's nice to look at what he did contribute in 2000 (and he was great that year), but the Ravens were just too dominant in 2000 for that particular statement to hold true. That's all I meant.

 

Those are good points.  If I were to argue for Stover, my argument would be that he made the move to Baltimore from Cleveland and then played all 16 games (at a very high level, by the way) for the first 13 seasons of the Ravens franchise.  I believe he was the last member of the Ravens who made the move with the franchise from Cleveland, but I really hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.  When we moved on from him in 2008, I do believe he would have deserved to be seriously considered for the Mt. Rushmore of our team because of these facts.  I think that our team made a big transition that season, however, and I feel that we should include someone who is a bigger part of the "second chapter" of our franchise.  Ozzie would be my first choice because he, like Ray and Ed (to some extent), played a big role in both chapters.

[ravensdan]

I think if we revisit this question in 5 years it would be

Ray
Ogden
Joe
Harbaugh

[Guest Moderator 6]

Then retract what you said. You can't just say things that are blatantly false to inflate a player's legacy.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

[K-Dog]

Ya know what people ?
This is all OPINIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We are allowed to have OPINIONS.

 

Arguing with some one about what THEIR opinion is, is simply ignorant and stupid.

[ravensdan]

Ya know what people ?
This is all OPINIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are allowed to have OPINIONS.

Arguing with some one about what THEIR opinion is, is simply ignorant and stupid.

[Guest nflfan123]

Ray Lewis

Ed Reed

Jonathan Ogden

Art Moddell

HM: Ozzie Newsome

[Mt. Crushmore]

Ya know what people ?
This is all OPINIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

We are allowed to have OPINIONS.

 

Arguing with some one about what THEIR opinion is, is simply ignorant and stupid.

 

[Tiz]

Ray Lewis
Jon Ogden
Ed Reed
Jamal Lewis
I really think people forget how much Jamal meant to this team.

Won't include jam for the same reason people aren't going to include bouleware
We currently have a player on the roster who is better overall and means every bit as much if not more than jam did.

Personally if going with just players I don't see how jam means more to what baltimore is than Suggs

So one else put Ozzie as the fourth person and I agree that the four really are
Ray, Ed, j.o and Ozzie.

First ballot hofers and the man who picked them that's what Baltimore is

[ravensfan2424]

Funny that I saw an article just like this pop up on PFT today:

 

 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/23/its-ravens-mt-rushmore-nomination-time/

 

COINCIDENCE????

[mgridda]

The way I see it Mt. Rushmore has Presidents. Not senators, or governors or generals. Presidents. So, 

 

Dick Cass...

 

 

lol, just kidding. But behind every joke, there is truth. I would only put 1 player on the Baltimore Ravens "Mt. Rushmore." And that would be pretty evident. In fact, I think of every level of the "team" there should be one person on Mt. Rushmore and it works best this way:

 

 

George Washington Art Modell. 1st Owner. Led Baltimore to have a NFL team again, broke independent of Cleveland. He was the father of the franchise and laid the foundation, including hiring the right people and setting the right tone. He set everything up. 

 

Thomas Jefferson Ozzie Newsome. He was the author of the blueprint of all of our personnel decisions. As Jefferson was inspired by Thomas Paine and other philosophers, Ozzie Newsome took BPA and scouting ideologies from Belichick and set up the whole idea of Playing Like a Raven. If there ever was a father of the constitution for Raven's football, Ozzie Newsome is it. 

 

Theodore Roosvelt: Ray Lewis. Provided leadership for the franchise through its growth and expansion. Was instrumental in the entire team history until present day, a leader at practice, a face of the franchise and an icon to all of Baltimore through his rough and tough hard working spirit. Led team to both championships in its history, and every accolade in its history actually.

Abraham Lincoln: John Harbaugh. He held the team together through the roughest time and led us to the Superbowl right now. Has been to the playoffs all 5 years he's been a coach, 2 time AFC North champion, young coach, the great compromiser, a wonderful manager, set the tone for Baltimore to earn the respect of officials and people around the league as a high character organisation. It was his firm conviction that penalties and undisciplined hooliganism must be abolished.

 

 

[codizzle]

Well assuming this idea had a pretty clear answer concerning the Ravens was wrong on my part

Guess everyone needs to try and be "different" idk

[arnie_uk]

Let me clarify what I was saying before, so it doesn't just come across as me saying everyone is wrong and bashing them in the head for saying something nice about Stover.

8 of Baltimore's 12 wins in the 2000 regular season (as well as all of their playoff wins) were decided by 10+ points. Only 4 were close enough where a kicker could make a difference:

Jacksonville (39-36, Stover made 1 field goal from 44 yards out)
@ Jacksonville (15-10, Stover made 5 field goals from 21, 24, 32, 43 and 47 yards)
@ Tennessee (24-23, Stover made 1 field goal from 45 yards out)
@ Arizona (13-7, Stover made 2 field goals both from 42 yards)

It would be true to say that Stover came through in all four games. However, if we're going to say that they miss the playoffs without Stover, that relies on a few assumptions:

1) The Ravens would have to lose ALL four games (based on how the standings played out that year)
2) Whoever they replace Stover with has to miss EVERY field goal in 3 of the 4 games, plus 2 of 5 kicks in the road Jacksonville game.
3) On top of that, Baltimore still has to lose in overtime against Jacksonville and Arizona.

It just doesn't add up. It's great that we appreciate Stover and it's nice to look at what he did contribute in 2000 (and he was great that year), but the Ravens were just too dominant in 2000 for that particular statement to hold true. That's all I meant.

let me just clarify. I was completely sarcastic

[arnie_uk]

Let me clarify what I was saying before, so it doesn't just come across as me saying everyone is wrong and bashing them in the head for saying something nice about Stover.

8 of Baltimore's 12 wins in the 2000 regular season (as well as all of their playoff wins) were decided by 10+ points. Only 4 were close enough where a kicker could make a difference:

Jacksonville (39-36, Stover made 1 field goal from 44 yards out)
@ Jacksonville (15-10, Stover made 5 field goals from 21, 24, 32, 43 and 47 yards)
@ Tennessee (24-23, Stover made 1 field goal from 45 yards out)
@ Arizona (13-7, Stover made 2 field goals both from 42 yards)

It would be true to say that Stover came through in all four games. However, if we're going to say that they miss the playoffs without Stover, that relies on a few assumptions:

1) The Ravens would have to lose ALL four games (based on how the standings played out that year)
2) Whoever they replace Stover with has to miss EVERY field goal in 3 of the 4 games, plus 2 of 5 kicks in the road Jacksonville game.
3) On top of that, Baltimore still has to lose in overtime against Jacksonville and Arizona.

It just doesn't add up. It's great that we appreciate Stover and it's nice to look at what he did contribute in 2000 (and he was great that year), but the Ravens were just too dominant in 2000 for that particular statement to hold true. That's all I meant.

oh lucky you got in before they deleted my post

[arnie_uk]

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

two defensive comments in a row? A sign you've nothing left to back up your opinion

[Guest Moderator 6]

two defensive comments in a row? A sign you've nothing left to back up your opinion

No, a sign I don't want to discuss it with certain people anymore. Let's get back on track everyone.

[easternshore97]

Well assuming this idea had a pretty clear answer concerning the Ravens was wrong on my part

Guess everyone needs to try and be "different" idk

 

Actually, I think its a pretty good discussion because ravensdan did say he thought the first 3 were consensus and it seems like most are on the same page with the first 3, but to your point seems like quite a few don't even think all 3 are worthy.

 

My main question is do you build a Mt Rushmore in your infancy, or do you do it at a more mature stage of existence (Mt Rushmore was created in 1927-39 and GW was president in 1789-97). Not sure how you define mature either - but we've had only had 1 GM, and 3 head coaches

 

I know my 4 most popular Ravens would def not be the 4 on a Mt Rushmore...

[GTRavens]

let me just clarify. I was completely sarcastic

I know, I just needed to find a post to respond to so I could get my point across in a more...dignified manner. Sorry for making an arse out of myself.