Anyone else tired of hearing "The Ravens have lost too many pieces"?

[Tiz]

More upgrades than lost pieces. I have a feeling we were eventually going to part ways with Q after the 2013 season anyway.

Ditto

[mgridda]

Also, another thing. Arthur Brown is a Ravens type guy who I'm very high on, yes. However, I predict that he'll have a quiet rookie season.

 

Why?

 

He's a 4-3 guy, transitioning to a 3-4. I doubt it'll be a smooth and easy transition. So many college linebackers think it will be, and get so caught up with the pace and speed of the game, overwhelmed with the talent of opposing offenses at every single position, that they have a hard time impacting games when they're just trying to find themselves and get comfortable on the field.

 

It's like this for the first few games, anyway. But, I predict it will take Brown longer to adjust. Especially if he has a short training camp. 

 

 

all I can do is hope our guys stay healthy. 

[CARavensFan]

Also, another thing. Arthur Brown is a Ravens type guy who I'm very high on, yes. However, I predict that he'll have a quiet rookie season.

 

Why?

 

He's a 4-3 guy, transitioning to a 3-4. I doubt it'll be a smooth and easy transition. So many college linebackers think it will be, and get so caught up with the pace and speed of the game, overwhelmed with the talent of opposing offenses at every single position, that they have a hard time impacting games when they're just trying to find themselves and get comfortable on the field.

 

It's like this for the first few games, anyway. But, I predict it will take Brown longer to adjust. Especially if he has a short training camp. 

 

 

all I can do is hope our guys stay healthy. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you on Brown having a quiter rookie year and then picking it up in the years following.

 

If I was going to guess which rookie, who had a shot at starting this year, that would make an immediate impact I would guess it would be Elam.

[SteelersProphet]

Excuse the long read***

 

I'm generally a pretty positive person, and I've let this statement roll off my shoulder for several months. But it seems like EVERY single time media talks about the Ravens, whether its on ESPN, NFL network, radio stations, internet articles, they all speak on how much we have lost and why we are a worse team because of it. 

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I have been a Ravens fan since their inception in 96, so I do know and understand the loss of Reed and Lewis. I wont go into details on everything great these two have brought to our organization... we all know them. I'm the type of fan that DVR's every game they play that I find on TV (I have 14 of the 16 games from last regular season, and all playoff games including the SB), and I watch them each... several times, just looking at players development, sometimes I watch an entire game just to watch one person's every play. In addition to that, I watch them live, I had season tickets from 2003-2009, and have gone to many games the last 3 years as well. That being said, I think we as Ravens fans (who I'm sure are a lot like me), realize what the players who we lost... were lacking. 

 

After free agency, and the draft, this is the first time in forever, prob since 06, that I feel REALLY good with how we've built this team this year, from a performance standpoint, and a financial one (cause that is the big picture). We all know Reed and Lewis cannot be replaced, when you look at overall what they bring to this team. However, from an athletic standpoint, I feel we upgraded everywhere, except WR. (Didn't want Q leaving, but I understand the move, especially with so much unproven talent that NEEDS to get on the field so we can see where our "investment" can go.

 

Lets be real here

 

 

 

its funny to me that you would see the fallacy in the concept that people are counting you out because you lost some big name pieces and then turn around and use that same argument to explain why the steelers are done.

 

I can do that list for the steelere too......I think we made all the right moves to not only stay a good team but improve

 

I agree with your post for the most part.........just don't use that argument you hate when it suits you(not just you but all ravens fans)

[MTRavensFan]

its funny to me that you would see the fallacy in the concept that people are counting you out because you lost some big name pieces and then turn around and use that same argument to explain why the steelers are done.

 

I can do that list for the steelere too......I think we made all the right moves to not only stay a good team but improve

 

I agree with your post for the most part.........just don't use that argument you hate when it suits you(not just you but all ravens fans)

 

Good point.

And it's not just replacing the pieces, but the excellence of the coaching staff in pulling the best out of the new guys, and making it gel. Steelers are very similar to the Ravens in that respect.

 

Never, ever count you guys out - even in our house with Ben on the bench,

[black blood purple passion]

based upon the individuals they're upgrades on paper but team chemistry is something that seems small but actually plays a huge part, don't under value it. Hopefully these guys can mesh as well as last years team.

[Radinho84]

I personally think that we actually got better on paper. we have to see how the new guys adjust to our game like many guys in here said before me.

 

we cannot replace ray lewis and his leadership. but we can very well replace his production on the field of the last two years. same goes for reed. those guys will be missed big but we have a lot of other guys who can step up and become the new leaders like sizzle, ray rice, webb and some others.

 

as i said, for me on paper we improved. let´s see what happens on the field. the guys have to get all the way through camp and preseason and have to stay healthy before we can judge anything...

[GrimCoconut]

Also, another thing. Arthur Brown is a Ravens type guy who I'm very high on, yes. However, I predict that he'll have a quiet rookie season.

Why?

He's a 4-3 guy, transitioning to a 3-4. I doubt it'll be a smooth and easy transition. So many college linebackers think it will be, and get so caught up with the pace and speed of the game, overwhelmed with the talent of opposing offenses at every single position, that they have a hard time impacting games when they're just trying to find themselves and get comfortable on the field.

It's like this for the first few games, anyway. But, I predict it will take Brown longer to adjust. Especially if he has a short training camp.


all I can do is hope our guys stay healthy.

I mostly agree with you here except that I don't think the transition will hold him back that much because I think we might use more 4-3 sets than usual this year. We have the versatility to run both and I think we'll give 4-3 and 3-4 looks to disguise the opposite formation.

I think this because of the additions of Canty, Dumervil, Brown. We can frequently use Upshaw at the SAM with McClain,Bynes, McClellan or Brown at the MIKE with the other guy at the WILL, perhaps Brown.

If you have Suggs, Upshaw, Dumervil, Ngata, Canty, Jones or McPhee in there you can run a 4-3 or 3-4.

If you look, we have a lot of guys with 4-3 experience. I think we will run the 4-3 a lot more than people expect with 3-4 formations in there to get the guys experience with the system and to bring them along slowly.

[baltravens]

Let's see, Canty, Dumervil, Spears, 1st-rounder Elam, and 2nd-rounder Brown, that rebuttles the question put forth in the thread. ...Did I forget any key additions?

[beanfigger]

Let's see, Canty, Dumervil, Spears, 1st-rounder Elam, and 2nd-rounder Brown, that rebuttles the question put forth in the thread. ...Did I forget any key additions?

 

You forgot Huff.  Also, our 3rd-rounder Williams should be a factor.

[PolishRifle]

I actualy think, that losing Lewis, Reed and Pollard in the same time will help young leaders assume control. It creates a big void in leadership, that is to be filled, but it also means, that there are no remains of the old guard on the team anymore either. No one, who would question the new leaders on the team or disrupt the new lockerroom chemistry.

Not saying those guys were bad teammates, I think Reed and Lewis were tremendous teammates, but they provided a different type of leadership, than Joe Flacco, Ray Rice or all the other new players, that now have the opportunity to take over.

[ravens533]

My brother and I were talking about how disrespected the Ravens are, he made an interesting observation. He said that the Ravens of this era are like the Radiers were under Madden. Everyone hated them back then too. It was because they were so physical and intimidating. After I thought about it, he is right. We are a physical and smart team. We believe is good defense and that will always intimidate people and therefore they will not like it.

[baltravens]

You forgot Huff.  Also, our 3rd-rounder Williams should be a factor.

Thanks, about Huff.

I knew I forgot.

[Ravensfan23]

its funny to me that you would see the fallacy in the concept that people are counting you out because you lost some big name pieces and then turn around and use that same argument to explain why the steelers are done.

 

I can do that list for the steelere too......I think we made all the right moves to not only stay a good team but improve

 

I agree with your post for the most part.........just don't use that argument you hate when it suits you(not just you but all ravens fans)

 

 

Good point.

And it's not just replacing the pieces, but the excellence of the coaching staff in pulling the best out of the new guys, and making it gel. Steelers are very similar to the Ravens in that respect.

 

Never, ever count you guys out - even in our house with Ben on the bench,

 

This is exactly why I don't understand all the Bengals love. The Ravens and Steelers have both proven to be franchises that don't rebuild but retool. The Bengals have proven nothing. Both the Ravens and Steelers struggled with injuries and old age last year and the Bengals could barely get pass the Steelers and the Ravens backups. Give me a break. I take nothing away from those guys because they are a talented young bunch, but let them prove something first before you crown them as AFC North's best.

[Ravensfan23]

You forgot Huff.  Also, our 3rd-rounder Williams should be a factor.

 

I could make a strong case for listing Spagz as a key addition. Also a "healthy" Suggs, Ngata and Webb. Those are 3 pro bowl caliber players who when at their best are considered among the Elite at their respective positions.

 

Let's not forget a healthy Jameel McClain. Yes he had a down year even before the injury, but what the national media fails to realize is this guy has been our starter for the past 3 seasons. Not Ellerbe but McClain. If the Dline improves so should McClain imo.

 

I keep hearing how the Ravens have lost 9 Super Bowl starters. That's commical and not the entire truth. Yes we lost guys who technically started in the Super Bowl or in started at some point. But by that same train of thought, I can say the Ravens are retaining 11 defensive starters from last year. Webb, Graham, Upshaw, Bynes, McClian, Ihedigbo, Ngata, Jones, Mcphee, Suggs and Cody. All those guys started at least one game last year. Not to mention Jimmy Smith, Chykie Brown and Albert McClellan who all saw a lot of time. I just don't buy into the notion that the Ravens lost too much. I don't even think they'll miss Ray's and Ed's leadership as much as people say. Harbs, Flacco and some others will provide plenty of leadership.

[omar586]

if we stay healthy until the playoffs, i know we gonna end in SB, we upgraded and added depth to many positions, who is gonna give us hard time in the AFC, maybe texans, the others heck no, when the ravens beat u once, that is it the team becomes the ravens witch, lol u know what i mean,

[Rav'n Maniac]

if we stay healthy until the playoffs, i know we gonna end in SB, we upgraded and added depth to many positions, who is gonna give us hard time in the AFC, maybe texans, the others heck no, when the ravens beat u once, that is it the team becomes the ravens witch, lol u know what i mean,

Sorry Omar but you're drinking the koolaid pretty hard there and underestimating our opponents. We have the toughest schedule in the AFC this season and the 5th toughest in the NFL based on SOS ( strength of schedule). Not only do we face the Texans with #27 SOS, we have the Patriots & Broncos at #14 & #32 SOS respectfully.

 

In addition, we still have to face the Steelers twice at #22 SOS and Bengals twice at #12 SOS.

 

It's always going to be an uphill battle for us but we wouldn't have it any other way. If it was as easy as you suggest, it wouldn't be any fun.

[GrimCoconut]

I could make a strong case for listing Spagz as a key addition. Also a "healthy" Suggs, Ngata and Webb. Those are 3 pro bowl caliber players who when at their best are considered among the Elite at their respective positions.

 

Let's not forget a healthy Jameel McClain. Yes he had a down year even before the injury, but what the national media fails to realize is this guy has been our starter for the past 3 seasons. Not Ellerbe but McClain. If the Dline improves so should McClain imo.

 

I keep hearing how the Ravens have lost 9 Super Bowl starters. That's commical and not the entire truth. Yes we lost guys who technically started in the Super Bowl or in started at some point. But by that same train of thought, I can say the Ravens are retaining 11 defensive starters from last year. Webb, Graham, Upshaw, Bynes, McClian, Ihedigbo, Ngata, Jones, Mcphee, Suggs and Cody. All those guys started at least one game last year. Not to mention Jimmy Smith, Chykie Brown and Albert McClellan who all saw a lot of time. I just don't buy into the notion that the Ravens lost too much. I don't even think they'll miss Ray's and Ed's leadership as much as people say. Harbs, Flacco and some others will provide plenty of leadership.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned Spagnuolo. I think he will be a very big addition to this team, because I think we're going to run more 4-3 looks & formations than we ever have. 

[GrimCoconut]

its funny to me that you would see the fallacy in the concept that people are counting you out because you lost some big name pieces and then turn around and use that same argument to explain why the steelers are done.

 

I can do that list for the steelere too......I think we made all the right moves to not only stay a good team but improve

 

I agree with your post for the most part.........just don't use that argument you hate when it suits you(not just you but all ravens fans)

I hate to say this, but my best guess is ignorance causes those false or hypocritical statements. 

 

We usually don't know other teams as well as our own, so for people to say the Steelers have lost a lot of pieces isn't terribly surprising. 

[redrum52]

Lewis was amazing in that Colts game. Seems like he gave it his all that day. Everything he had.


I feel really good about the 2013 roster.Someone brought up how we should have brought in Woodson, because if Webb goes down then we won't have someone who can play cornerback. We're really deep at corner, even without Webb. Graham and Smith are viable starters. But even beyond that, someone brought up how Huff could play corner, and that made me think about how much I'd like to see Elam at deep safety and Ihedigbo playing SS. The versatility is really there for that, but I like the combo of Huff and Elam.

Then I started thinking about who could go down in 2013. It'd be pretty bad if anyone goes down with injury, but beyond having an injury to Joe Flacco or Justin Tucker: we're set. I don't mean that we'd lose a lot of games without Justin Tucker, but perhaps an important one would be lost. I like Tucker's clutch kicking ability. He made quite the impression on me in the A&M game back in 11'.

Suggs or Dumervil go down, and Courtney Brown and John Simon are right there. I like our depth at inside linebacker and along the defensive line. Ngata goes down? Okay, let's see what Brandon has got. The defensive ends are already a bit too deep with Canty, Jones, McPhee, Spears. Our wide receivers and tight ends are deep as well, and Pierce could pick up Rice's work-load. However, It would also shuffle the line a bit if McKinnie went down. He'd also be a bad one.

Can't lose Ngata or Torrey as well. I feel they are too important to what the team does. With all the pieces now maybe the defense could strive without Ngata but I think losing Torrey might really cripple the offense. All these Achilles injuries are worrying me.

[Corvus]

Birk is a big loss from a mental standpoint but from a physical one? I'm grateful for all Matt did in his 4 years here but I was tired of seeing some of the best defensive tackles in the league blow him up in pass blocking. Gino and AQ still have much to learn as far as processing defensive looks and making protection calls and changes bit its nothing they can't handle and theyre both already much bet ter physically than Matt was at the end of his career. We'll be finished missing Matt sooner rather than later, guys.

[Corvus]

Sorry Omar but you're drinking the koolaid pretty hard there and underestimating our opponents. We have the toughest schedule in the AFC this season and the 5th toughest in the NFL based on SOS ( strength of schedule). Not only do we face the Texans with #27 SOS, we have the Patriots & Broncos at #14 & #32 SOS respectfully.

In addition, we still have to face the Steelers twice at #22 SOS and Bengals twice at #12 SOS.

It's always going to be an uphill battle for us but we wouldn't have it any other way. If it was as easy as you suggest, it wouldn't be any fun.

Strength of schedule is a misleading "stat" and I put zero stock into it. If you really think all of the 32 team's records are going to add up exactly the same in '13 as they did in '12 you are sorely mistakened. All it is is a gauge of the previous year applied to a season that hasn't even occured yet. Citing strength of schedule does not diminish omar's opinion one bit.

[LEGEN-wait for it-DARY]

I completely agree OP and you didn't even mention Elam being an upgrade over Pollard.

 

I mostly agree with you here except that I don't think the transition will hold him back that much because I think we might use more 4-3 sets than usual this year. We have the versatility to run both and I think we'll give 4-3 and 3-4 looks to disguise the opposite formation.

I think this because of the additions of Canty, Dumervil, Brown. We can frequently use Upshaw at the SAM with McClain,Bynes, McClellan or Brown at the MIKE with the other guy at the WILL, perhaps Brown.

If you have Suggs, Upshaw, Dumervil, Ngata, Canty, Jones or McPhee in there you can run a 4-3 or 3-4.

If you look, we have a lot of guys with 4-3 experience. I think we will run the 4-3 a lot more than people expect with 3-4 formations in there to get the guys experience with the system and to bring them along slowly.

 

Agreed. I'd really like to see more versatility next year with the defense running a lot of 4-3 looks. I'd like to see Pees experiment with the defensive front the Seahawks tend to use. Three big down lineman: Ngata, Canty, Williams with a faster, pass rusher specialist playing RDE/LEO which is where Suggs, Dumervil, and McPhee would play. The linebacker corps would have Brown at WLB, Bynes at MLB, and Upshaw/Simon at SLB... I also really like Spencer Adkins potential there too. Complete depth chart:

 

RDE - Terrell Suggs / Elvis Dumervil / Pernell McPhee
NT - Brandon Williams / Terrence Cody

UT - Chris Canty / Arthur Jones / DeAngelo Tyson

LDE - Haloti Ngata / Marcus Spears / Kapron Lewis-Moore

SLB - Courtney Upshaw / John Simon / Spencer Adkins

MLB - Josh Bynes / Jameel McClain
WLB - Arthur Brown

 

 

McClellan could then be our utility player and sub in at each of the LBers spots.

 

Canty and Ngata could switch places a lot, with their versatility to play both positions, to keep the offensive line confused and unsure which will line up where.

[ravensdan]

Thid official sos is complete garbage. No even worth mentioning. You need to look at how many and where and when (as in days rest and back to back etc)you face elite qbs. This scherdule is far and away much easier than last years was.

[omar586]

Sorry Omar but you're drinking the koolaid pretty hard there and underestimating our opponents. We have the toughest schedule in the AFC this season and the 5th toughest in the NFL based on SOS ( strength of schedule). Not only do we face the Texans with #27 SOS, we have the Patriots & Broncos at #14 & #32 SOS respectfully.

 

In addition, we still have to face the Steelers twice at #22 SOS and Bengals twice at #12 SOS.

 

It's always going to be an uphill battle for us but we wouldn't have it any other way. If it was as easy as you suggest, it wouldn't be any fun.

i'm only saying that to all naysayers that keep putting the ravens down with all "ravens lost alot players " talk, we lost a lot but gained better and most cased upgraded with underrated talent too,

[LEGEN-wait for it-DARY]

Did my post get erased or something?

[LEGEN-wait for it-DARY]

It'd be constructive to tell the person what they did wrong with their post your refusing to approve instead of simply ignoring them.

[Moderator 3]

It'd be constructive to tell the person what they did wrong with their post your refusing to approve instead of simply ignoring them.

It's Memorial Day weekend. The mods are mostly on mobile and can't approve posts that way. Sorry you had to wait for one of the volunteers to sign in with full-site access.

[display name]

These are the same people who put the Broncos and Patriots to win by about 10 pts. So don't take them too seriously. I actually think we've gotten better as a team, especially on defense. Does being better nescessarily mean we will win the Super Bowl again? No, not really, but were still have a very talented football club.

[display name]

Strength of schedule is a misleading "stat" and I put zero stock into it. If you really think all of the 32 team's records are going to add up exactly the same in '13 as they did in '12 you are sorely mistakened. All it is is a gauge of the previous year applied to a season that hasn't even occured yet. Citing strength of schedule does not diminish omar's opinion one bit.

It's overrated, I'll give you that. But it still matters. The Broncos won 11 straight games, but 9 were against teams that didn't even make the playoffs. If they played 6 playoff teams in that stretch, how would they have done? I know how a team fluctuates year in and year out, but a team that's great one year will probably still be good the next. Not a definite answer, but probably. And facing tough teams or far-away ones home or away has the potential to change the outcome.