Big Ben vs. Joe Flacco first five years

[acepilot1990]

I still take Flacco

[JEEPercreepermd]

RIGHT NOW, I think Flacco is the better of the two. That being said, Ben over his career has accomished more so this one won't be settled until both have retired because Ben still has a few years left to be productive while Flacco still has the bulk of his career ahead of him.

Ben has had a few clutch moments against us as well as a few terrible performances. Likewise for Flacco.

Both of these guys embody what it takes to win hard fought, ugly AFC North football games..which translates to success against the rest of the league... Hence when people were saying that the big bad 49ers were going to bully us around, I reminded them that Joe has had to play against Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu and co. twice a year..on the flip side Ben had to face Lewis, Reed, Suggs,Ngata ect..
Thats why both of these guys are unbreakable, tough, and thrive in hostile, nasty, close games.

6 of one and a half dozen of the other IMO.

I am and always will be a Flacco guy, but I think I'd really enjoy watching Ben play if he was on a different team

[flynismo]

I do thank the ravens...I was not a big Maddox fan

 

 

I can say he was on par with warner(even though warner is not of his era)...beat him head to head in the superbowl and has more rings

 

Ben is Better than Manning (if your talking about Eli).......Peyton is one of the greatest of all time so that comparison isn't close

 

Brees I would say is not as good as Ben.....he can have his records, ill take the wins

 

Brady is IMO a lucky QB who got paired with a great coach who made him what he is.......but he is HOF

 

But Ben is top two in Success. only brady and him have three superbowl starts(among active QB's)

 

No way Ben is on Warner's level. Warner might be the most underrated QB to ever play. 

But I'd definitely take Ben over Eli.

Brees, Brady, Peyton and Rodgers are all obviously in a league of their own.

[flynismo]

I'm not coming at this from a biased stand point at all,but Roethlisberger is no HOFer.The stats just don't support that.He has two rings but he just went along for the ride on that first one.HOFers are supposed to be the best of the best aka the elite during the era that they played.Can you honestly say that he was in the same category with Warner,Rodgers,Manning,Brees and Brady at any time in his career?

Not saying he is a HOF (not yet anyway), but his HOF resume is better than Flacco's, at this moment in time. I think that will change 4 - 6 years from now though

[H8R]

Ben better then Kurt Warner? Pshhh... no way.
Ben better then Drew Brees? Pshhh... no way.

Joe has been better in crunchtime the last few year then Ben... and that was Bens specialty... Roethlisburger has had some great stats, but he's was prone to throwing the game ending INT in recent history.

[SteelersProphet]

Ben better then Kurt Warner? Pshhh... no way.
Ben better then Drew Brees? Pshhh... no way.

Joe has been better in crunchtime the last few year then Ben... and that was Bens specialty... Roethlisburger has had some great stats, but he's was prone to throwing the game ending INT in recent history.

 

last year he did that twice in a row in two must win games.....but he was not doing that for the majority of the season

 

and im not a fan of drew brees........he gets a lot of yards and puts up the points but he always falls short.

 

Kurt Warner was great but he had his chance to stamp his legacy with two rings and Ben took it from him.....Snatched that ring from his finger

[edreedfromtheu]

If people think I'm hard on Flacco, I think you'll appreciate my opinions of Roethlisberger.

I've NEVER thought the guy was a very good QB, and simply got VERY lucky in having two Super Bowl rings.

He came on to a stacked team, and just stayed out of the way of the defense and running game.

Eventually, the Steelers became a passing team.  Their offense still wasn't very high-scoring.  They just had a great defense that let them play with a lead most of the time.  Their passing game was predicating on Roethlisberger shaking off 3 and 4 tackles, and eventually one of the receivers was just open due to so much time and the defensive backs quitting.

So, that's the one thing Roethlisberger had going for him.... he could handle a blitz and shake off the first and second tackler.  But this has been negated by the fact that he's now having injury problems the last couple years. 

I don't think he's every had that great of a "football mind" and doesn't have the best vision.  He can just buy time.  His one other big advantage is his weight.... and that fact that if they need that 1 yard on a 3rd or 4th down, it's almost a given if he leans forward.

I can't say Flacco has every impressed me... and really never showed improvement from one year to the next.  EXCEPT the most recent playoff run.  Obviously, he played pretty  amazing during that time(with the exception of the 2nd half of the Super Bowl).  He's gotten paid and the Ravens have put the talent around him.  It'll be interesting to see what happens now that the "monkey" is off his back.

If the officials didn't completely hand that second Super Bowl to the Steelers and Roethlisberger.... NOBODY would even question who is better between these two quarterbacks.  But for now, there are a few who will still say "Ben has 2 championships."  To me, Flacco is better.  It's not a huge margin.  But if those were my only two choices, I'd take Flacco.  A 6th straight playoff appearance, and another division title.... and I think that seals it.  Whether Ben can stay healthy or not.

Here's hoping everyone for both teams is out on that field when they face off!

[SteelersProphet]

If the officials didn't completely hand that second Super Bowl to the Steelers and Roethlisberger.... NOBODY would even question who is better between these two quarterbacks.  But for now, there are a few who will still say "Ben has 2 championships." 

 

I don't agree with your assessment of ben but I don't understand this part.

 

critics like to claim our FIRST Superbowl was fixed or the refs gave us the game, or some such nonsense

 

but I don't recall people claiming that about our second one and im just wondering if you were referring to the seahawks superbowl

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Not saying he is a HOF (not yet anyway), but his HOF resume is better than Flacco's, at this moment in time. I think that will change 4 - 6 years from now though

Oh ok.I thought you already had him in there based off him getting 2 rings.

[Gordo52]

I don't agree with your assessment of ben but I don't understand this part.

critics like to claim our FIRST Superbowl was fixed or the refs gave us the game, or some such nonsense

but I don't recall people claiming that about our second one and im just wondering if you were referring to the seahawks superbowl

Don't mind him.

[beanfigger]

Everyone will have a different ranking order for QBs.  There are three current QBs with both a regular season MVP and Superbowl win & MVP.  Brady, PManning, Rodgers.  I'll throw Brees in the group with them because he has a Superbowl win & MVP, and he's had a record-setting season that would have won MVP any other year.  That's the top tier (I always considered four to be the proper number of tiers in a 32-team league, so 8 total tiers).  Both Flacco and Roethlisberger are clearly good enough to be solid residents in the second tier, along with the only other current Superbowl champion QB, EManning.  I guess I'd throw Ryan in that second tier, as well, for now, until some other young QB proves to be a perennial playoff threat more than him.  Put each tier in whatever order you like, but I feel it's pretty clear to me that these are the top-2 tiers at the moment.

[flynismo]

I don't agree with your assessment of ben but I don't understand this part.

 

critics like to claim our FIRST Superbowl was fixed or the refs gave us the game, or some such nonsense

 

but I don't recall people claiming that about our second one and im just wondering if you were referring to the seahawks superbowl

 

He's the same guy who three months ago swore Flacco was the sorriest pile of crap to ever disgrace a Raven uniform.

Now that he has run out of reasons to hate on him, he's apparently sticking up for our guy.

 

Guess if you cant beat 'em, join 'em  :D

[SteelersProphet]

Oh ok.I thought you already had him in there based off him getting 2 rings.

 

no QB with two rings(from starts) has been kept out of the hall of fame

[SteelersProphet]

Everyone will have a different ranking order for QBs.  There are three current QBs with both a regular season MVP and Superbowl win & MVP.  Brady, PManning, Rodgers.  I'll throw Brees in the group with them because he has a Superbowl win & MVP, and he's had a record-setting season that would have won MVP any other year.  That's the top tier (I always considered four to be the proper number of tiers in a 32-team league, so 8 total tiers).  Both Flacco and Roethlisberger are clearly good enough to be solid residents in the second tier, along with the only other current Superbowl champion QB, EManning.  I guess I'd throw Ryan in that second tier, as well, for now, until some other young QB proves to be a perennial playoff threat more than him.  Put each tier in whatever order you like, but I feel it's pretty clear to me that these are the top-2 tiers at the moment.

 

im good with that

[berad]

no QB with two rings(from starts) has been kept out of the hall of fame

 

Except Jim Plunkett. 

 

Granted, Roethlisberger is a MUCH better player than Plunkett but he is the exception to that rule.

 

I said this in another thread but, to me, he needs a few more solid years of production to solidify HOF. Another SB would do it immediately but, if he retired tomorrow, I would be hard for me to call him sure-fire.

[flynismo]

Except Jim Plunkett. 

 

Granted, Roethlisberger is a MUCH better player than Plunkett but he is the exception to that rule.

 

I said this in another thread but, to me, he needs a few more solid years of production to solidify HOF. Another SB would do it immediately but, if he retired tomorrow, I would be hard for me to call him sure-fire.

 

If Ben retired tomorrow, I dont see how he gets in. Like you said, he needs to either put together 3 or more seasons like the one he just had, or win one more SB to get his ticket stamped. He has had way too many mediocre seasons to be a lock to make it 

[gabefergy]

If Ben retired tomorrow, I dont see how he gets in. Like you said, he needs to either put together 3 or more seasons like the one he just had, or win one more SB to get his ticket stamped. He has had way too many mediocre seasons to be a lock to make it 

Especially considering that Ben's first SB performance was probably the worst ever by a winning QB. He won two SBs, but he wasnt SB MVP in either. Telling? Maybe a lilttle bit.

[flynismo]

Especially considering that Ben's first SB performance was probably the worst ever by a winning QB. He won two SBs, but he wasnt SB MVP in either. Telling? Maybe a lilttle bit.

Even more telling is that his #1 WR was the MVP each time. hmm....

[SteelersProphet]

Especially considering that Ben's first SB performance was probably the worst ever by a winning QB. He won two SBs, but he wasnt SB MVP in either. Telling? Maybe a lilttle bit.

 

its a common Steelers QB slight......Terry Bradshaw was only MVP of two of his four

 

Ben wins one more he will get it.....steelers have three Superbowl MVP WR's there are something like six total

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

no QB with two rings(from starts) has been kept out of the hall of fame

Do you think Eli is a HOFer?

[SteelersProphet]

Do you think Eli is a HOFer?

 

I think he will be yes.

[J-man]

Ben is also 2-0 in beating rape charges ... very underrated stat

[Yatagarasu]

Roethlisberger was a great player no doubt in my mind. His style of playing by taking hits and scrambling around to keep the play alive is pure heart. However, I feel Flacco can surpass Roethlisberger due to the fact that Joe is getting consistency and has been very durable. Five years of perfect attendance in one of the most injury-prone game shows why Ozzie felt no hesitation on giving Flacco the biggest contract before Rodger's.

[JohnJohnson]

I can't say Flacco has every impressed me... and really never showed improvement from one year to the next.  EXCEPT the most recent playoff run.  Obviously, he played pretty  amazing during that time(with the exception of the 2nd half of the Super Bowl).  He's gotten paid and the Ravens have put the talent around him.  It'll be interesting to see what happens now that the "monkey" is off his back.
 

 

With every comment it becomes more and more clear how shallow your understanding of football is. To say that Flacco didn't play well in the 2nd half of the Super Bowl is incredibly naive. We started the half with a kickoff return TD. Two possessions later, we were driving and Ray Rice inexplicably fumbled the ball trying to do way too much on a play that would have gained 7 yards minimum. Flacco then leads the Ravens on two FG drives, the second time driving us all the way inside the 5. Those were extremely important drives, as we saw in the NFCCG when Matt Ryan and the Falcons were shut out in the 2nd half. The most important thing? Flacco didn't turn the ball over. But it's never enough for certain fans, they will always find something to complain about. Flacco should have thrown 5 TDs instead of 3, he should have broken that record instead of tied it with 11 TDs.

[ravensdan]

I would take Ben, Eli, joe over Peyton in the playoffs any day. I don't see how Kurt Warner belongs in any hof discussions he had too many horrible years of downright bad play. None of the other qbs mentioned have ever had that. Ben joe and Eli have all had more quality years than Warner already and they are still in their prime years, joe just starting his.

[Gordo52]

I think bens a HOF. I wouldn't say first ballot as of right now but I thinks he's done enough.

[H8R]

last year he did that twice in a row in two must win games.....but he was not doing that for the majority of the season

and im not a fan of drew brees........he gets a lot of yards and puts up the points but he always falls short.

Kurt Warner was great but he had his chance to stamp his legacy with two rings and Ben took it from him.....Snatched that ring from his finger

Warner didn't let his team down, his horrible defense did.
Bress has done tremendous things with little around him. No running game, marginal WR's and a lame defense. He has no choice but to fling it. The Steelers would have 2-3 more Super Bowls if Bress were on their team, same as the Ravens.

[H8R]

I think bens a HOF. I wouldn't say first ballot as of right now but I thinks he's done enough.

I'd disagree at this point. Hes a good QB but not yet a HOF in my eyes. Eli has as many SBs and more eye popping stats, and better durability.. Hes not a HOF guy either.

[Gordo52]

I'd disagree at this point. Hes a good QB but not yet a HOF in my eyes. Eli has as many SBs and more eye popping stats, and better durability.. Hes not a HOF guy either.

I think they both are actually. Eli more so then Ben also.

[H8R]

I don't agree with your assessment of ben but I don't understand this part.

critics like to claim our FIRST Superbowl was fixed or the refs gave us the game, or some such nonsense

but I don't recall people claiming that about our second one and im just wondering if you were referring to the seahawks superbowl

Baltimore was robbed numerous times by the refs, revolving around the Steelers which either negated home field advantage, AFC north title or a shot at the SB.