A. Q. Shipley acquired from Colts

[gabefergy]

He just has some kind of vendetta against Gino and finds every opportunity he can to put him down.

Gino's too small and weak.

[gabefergy]

Thats highly doubtful in regards to the availability. Im sure it was Ozzie who inquired about the trade rather than him being shopped around. The fact that the colts took Holmes in the 4th gives you an idea of what the colts think of his ability (Shipley's)

 

I have no problem with the value aspect of it, but we either know what we have or we don't know what we have with Gino and Jensen. We can assume Jensen is a ? or project. This leaves Gino. Now the coaches have watched Gino for a year. That would mean that we know what we have in Gino and made this trade for one of two reasons. 

 

1. Gino isn't good enough to start and we needed another guy

or 

2. Gino is good enough to start, and we could have waited or found a vet in FA with a comprable record to Shipley

 

Im gonna reasonably assume that we didnt make this trade with Gino as a question mark. If we did, than it makes no sense not to wait. 

Keep making assumptions based on your flawed logic. It will get you places. Indy had 3 centers on their roster. One overpaid veteran starter they wanted to replace, a rookie 4th round pick, and  a very talented back-up. They can A) cut the overpaid veteran and let the rookie and back-up compete or B.) trade the back-up who actually has some value and let the rookie learn under the veteran and hope to replace him. It wouldnt surprise me at all if Indy was actively shopping Shipley and the Colts fans seemed to agree that Grigson was looking to unload a Center.

 

To your points, there have been absolutely zero indications that Gino isnt good enough to start, but common sense dictates that reasonable competition ( like an actual Center with starting experience) will help both depth and performance. You also  have absolutely zero way of knowing a player would be available later. Show me the veteran options on the market that we should have signed instead.

[bravensfan52]

Didn't we see Gino handle Geno Atkins last year

[Ravenseconbeast]

Where did I say Gino would be given the job? I said Shipley adds great competition and depth but feel that Gino is the better player.

 

you didnt lol.   I just agreed w/ what u said and just stated my opinion..

[1/28/01]

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ!!!!!!!

[cushrinada1986]

I'd love to see him challenge McKinnie and Cody to a chicken wing eating contest.

With those digging skills, he should be a 49er lol, but seriously, with his size, I can see why they would want him for our running game. Goal line guy for sure.

[GrimCoconut]

Didn't we see Gino handle Geno Atkins last year

I think this move is means we want veteran behind Gino less than the Ravens thinking Gino can't do it. You don't want too many question marks when it comes to OL. I don't think the Ravens want Jensen to be the backup center either. Probably plan to use him at guard with center as a possibility.

[GrimCoconut]

Thats highly doubtful in regards to the availability. Im sure it was Ozzie who inquired about the trade rather than him being shopped around. The fact that the colts took Holmes in the 4th gives you an idea of what the colts think of his ability (Shipley's)

I have no problem with the value aspect of it, but we either know what we have or we don't know what we have with Gino and Jensen. We can assume Jensen is a ? or project. This leaves Gino. Now the coaches have watched Gino for a year. That would suggest that we know what we have in Gino and made this trade for one of two reasons.

1. Gino isn't good enough to start and we needed another guy
or
2. Gino is good enough to start, and we could have waited or found a vet in FA with a comprable record to Shipley which may have saved us a draft pick, an again while this is not bad value a penny saved is one earned.

Im gonna reasonably assume that we didnt make this trade with Gino as a question mark. If we did, than it makes no sense not to wait.

Maybe this move is less about Gino more about the following:

1. We have no proven or developed depth behind Gino who is also unproven except that one game against the Bengals. He had a terrific game but it was one game.
2. If Gino gets hurt who replaces him? Jensen? A rookie from a small school with zero NFL experience?
3. Bringing him in now helps us more than later because he has time. Everyone says the key to OL is chemistry. The center needs chemistry as well. You can't bring him here after camp and expect him to go gangbusters at a position that requires good understanding of the offensive playbook.

Clearly there aren't many veteran centers on the market better than him. He's also dirt cheap and a quality player. We gave up a Draft pick in a class that may not even be that deep. We're going to get some nice comp picks as well.

I like this move. Nothing to dislike here for me. Best case scenario is he never plays because Gino stays healthy and balls out of his mind.

[Sizzlebshu]

Maybe this move is less about Gino more about the following:

1. We have no proven or developed depth behind Gino who is also unproven except that one game against the Bengals. He had a terrific game but it was one game.
2. If Gino gets hurt who replaces him? Jensen? A rookie from a small school with zero NFL experience?
3. Bringing him in now helps us more than later because he has time. Everyone says the key to OL is chemistry. The center needs chemistry as well. You can't bring him here after camp and expect him to go gangbusters at a position that requires good understanding of the offensive playbook.

Clearly there aren't many veteran centers on the market better than him. He's also dirt cheap and a quality player. We gave up a Draft pick in a class that may not even be that deep. We're going to get some nice comp picks as well.

I like this move. Nothing to dislike here for me. Best case scenario is he never plays because Gino stays healthy and balls out of his mind.

I have no problem with the move, just with the timing of it. 

 

To your points tho

 

1. Is 5 games that much of a better resume than 1 + a year of in depth scouting? Thats basically what you get with Shipley

2. See point 1 

3. The first problem with this statement is that there is only 1 center spot on the team meaning that only 1 guy can get reps with the first team at a time. Gino will need all of the reps. The second problem is that the team really be together to develop chemistry until later. As of right now we only have had rookie mini camps. 

 

Also Dan Koppen is still on the market who if nothing else, is more proven and would likely come cheap. Andre Gurode is still there and he can play some center (no idea what happened with him after he left, he wasnt bad for us.) None will be our franchise center, but they would make cheap quality competition for Gino. 

 

I mean worst case is shipley goes somewhere else and imo that isn't even a loss as the hope is we never have to use him. 

 

Edit: I remember now, he went to the bears after us. He is a FA tho. 

[GrimCoconut]

I have no problem with the move, just with the timing of it.

To your points tho

1. Is 5 games that much of a better resume than 1 + a year of in depth scouting? Thats basically what you get with Shipley
2. See point 1
3. The first problem with this statement is that there is only 1 center spot on the team meaning that only 1 guy can get reps with the first team at a time. Gino will need all of the reps. The second problem is that the team really be together to develop chemistry until later. As of right now we only have had rookie mini camps.

Also Dan Koppen is still on the market who if nothing else, is more proven and would likely come cheap. Andre Gurode is still there and he can play some center (no idea what happened with him after he left, he wasnt bad for us.) None will be our franchise center, but they would make cheap quality competition for Gino.

I mean worst case is shipley goes somewhere else and imo that isn't even a loss as the hope is we never have to use him.

Edit: I remember now, he went to the bears after us. He is a FA tho.

1. Castillo worked with him apparently when he was with the Eagles. My guess is familiarity played a role here.
2. That's true but remember that he can still learn the playbook. That's a big deal. You don't want him learning the playbook late.
3. Koppen wouldn't have been a bad option. I think the problem with him is age. He was a very good center when he was younger and didn't look bad last year. I'm not saying he was bad. He had a good year. My guess is age and salary are what deter us from those veteran centers. I think we want to get younger and get someone similar to Gino. Shipley is similar to an extent.

[Sizzlebshu]

1. Castillo worked with him apparently when he was with the Eagles. My guess is familiarity played a role here.
2. That's true but remember that he can still learn the playbook. That's a big deal. You don't want him learning the playbook late.
3. Koppen wouldn't have been a bad option. I think the problem with him is age. He was a very good center when he was younger and didn't look bad last year. I'm not saying he was bad. He had a good year. My guess is age and salary are what deter us from those veteran centers. I think we want to get younger and get someone similar to Gino. Shipley is similar to an extent.

I woulda have waited, taken my chances that the colts cut him if they really wanted to get rid of him (which is why I think Ozzie went after the deal instead of the colts actively shopping him), and if the Colts sent him elsewhere went after Gurode (who is already familiar with the base playbook and vocab) or Koppen who can pick it up and be a backup. 

 

Given the markets for both, I think they would have taken a very low deal. 

[T-ray]

Gino's too small and weak.

 

And he comes from some stupid small school called Deleware Blue Hens... I mean, who else has ever come from that college?? Oh wait.....

[Mt. Crushmore]

Solid.

 

We have the picks to spare as we will get another 4 comp picks next year and this should be a conditional 7th so good job.

[GrimCoconut]

I woulda have waited, taken my chances that the colts cut him if they really wanted to get rid of him (which is why I think Ozzie went after the deal instead of the colts actively shopping him), and if the Colts sent him elsewhere went after Gurode (who is already familiar with the base playbook and vocab) or Koppen who can pick it up and be a backup.

Given the markets for both, I think they would have taken a very low deal.

True that Gurode had experience here but that was under Cam. This is Caldwell and Castillo now.

I think this was a Castillo request, personally. Sounds like he asked for the guy. He did help him develop while in Philadelphia. It just makes sense. It's also just a 7th. Supposedly anyway. My tune may change if it's more.

[Sizzlebshu]

True that Gurode had experience here but that was under Cam. This is Caldwell and Castillo now.

I think this was a Castillo request, personally. Sounds like he asked for the guy. He did help him develop while in Philadelphia. It just makes sense. It's also just a 7th. Supposedly anyway. My tune may change if it's more.

Caldwell already announced he wasn't going to drastically alter the playbook, so Gurode could come in and reasonably be expected to retain 50% of it. 

 

I agree that Castillo probably had a lot to do with it. 

[Gordo52]

Nice. From what I've read in here it sounds like a good signing that will provide competition/depth.

[sflegend89]

Shipley will compete with Geno in camp for sure.. people shouldn't assume he's just depth. The Center job is up for grabs right now, whoever gives us the best chance to win Football games will get the job. A lot of Colts fans were not happy about seeing him go so this should be a good competition at Center.

[Yatagarasu]

Like Ozzie said, he will never turn down a good player and trading for one helps us keep those compensatory picks we accumulated.

 

I don't know how Indianapolis is running their team, but they're making a lot of questionable signings and picks.

 

A.Q. Shipley and Gino Gradkowski should do fine at center.

 

Anyways, we were going to get another 11 picks next year due to the compensatory. So giving up one isn't much.

 

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/52796-2014-compensatory-picks/

[PolishRifle]

Didn't we see Gino handle Geno Atkins last year

 

Last year Joe wasn't worth 120$million. Lets make absolutely sure we get the OLine right.

 

[GrimCoconut]

Shipley will compete with Geno in camp for sure.. people shouldn't assume he's just depth. The Center job is up for grabs right now, whoever gives us the best chance to win Football games will get the job. A lot of Colts fans were not happy about seeing him go so this should be a good competition at Center.

I still think Gino is the center but you are completely correct--nobody is guaranteed that job. Gino could very well lose out to Shipley.

[GrimCoconut]

Last year Joe wasn't worth 120$million. Lets make absolutely sure we get the OLine right.

I think that's the idea. Better offensive line means better pass protection. Better pass protection means longer time in the pocket. That means receivers have longer to get open.

It solves four problems with one move. Joe's protected. The run game benefits. Wide receivers have longer to get separation. More quality depth.

[Yatagarasu]

Yup, everything is built inside out. You start with the trenches and everything else will work itself.

 

Ex: New Orleans Saints, Minnesota Vikings, San Francisco 49ers

 

Outlier: New York Jets

 

A good O-line will do wonders especially with a good QB.

[Yatagarasu]

I assume it's a 7th Rounder that can turn into a 6th Rounder according to how Shipley performs.

 

If you become a playof team, then it's basically a 7th round value either way.

 

Ozzie is working the system like a charm. Dark magic must be definitely involved.

[baltravens]

Last year Joe wasn't worth 120$million. Lets make absolutely sure we get the OLine right.

 

Let me add that the trenches are the key to the classic or traditional philosophy of the NFL. We have all heard the cliche that games are won and lost in the trenches.

[rmw10]

I wonder if this pushes anyone out.

 

Obviously McKinnie, Osemele, Gradkowski, Yanda, and Oher are guaranteed.  They seem to really like Wagner and Jensen as well, so I'll assume they make it.  I doubt we carry 10 lineman, so there are two spots for Shipley, Reid, and Harewood.  Obviously this is dependent on Shipley performing well enough to earn a spot.

[GrimCoconut]

I wonder if this pushes anyone out.

Obviously McKinnie, Osemele, Gradkowski, Yanda, and Oher are guaranteed. They seem to really like Wagner and Jensen as well, so I'll assume they make it. I doubt we carry 10 lineman, so there are two spots for Shipley, Reid, and Harewood. Obviously this is dependent on Shipley performing well enough to earn a spot.

Someone good won't be on this roster. We may stash sometime on IR like we have before. Thompson's suspension helps in that regard.

[dhstandard]

I am 99% certain he did not play in that game, it was their starting center Satele who played. I remember how he telegraphed every hike with his dramatic head bob.

We gave away practically nothing, and I think pretty much everyone ( I guess except you) realize center is a position where you want to have some veteran experience. I think we know what we have in Gino and rookie mini-camp gave the team a first impression with what Jensen can do. One of our UDFA took snaps at center too, so maybe he is projecting to be a guard instead of center. Also, if Ozzie waits longer this trade may no longer be available

Birk always did the headbob but would switch it up.  Half-second, second 2 seconds before the snap.  I would give him credit for the large number of offsides/encroachment penalties on other teams.  I remember they had a bunch.

[ravensdan]

Caldwell already announced he wasn't going to drastically alter the playbook, so Gurode could come in and reasonably be expected to retain 50% of it.

I agree that Castillo probably had a lot to do with it.

I don't remember hearing that about the play book, not in reference to this year.

[dhstandard]

I have no problem with the move, just with the timing of it. 

 

To your points tho

 

1. Is 5 games that much of a better resume than 1 + a year of in depth scouting? Thats basically what you get with Shipley

2. See point 1 

3. The first problem with this statement is that there is only 1 center spot on the team meaning that only 1 guy can get reps with the first team at a time. Gino will need all of the reps. The second problem is that the team really be together to develop chemistry until later. As of right now we only have had rookie mini camps. 

 

Also Dan Koppen is still on the market who if nothing else, is more proven and would likely come cheap. Andre Gurode is still there and he can play some center (no idea what happened with him after he left, he wasnt bad for us.) None will be our franchise center, but they would make cheap quality competition for Gino. 

 

I mean worst case is shipley goes somewhere else and imo that isn't even a loss as the hope is we never have to use him. 

 

Edit: I remember now, he went to the bears after us. He is a FA tho. 

You don't give one guy all the reps.  That's stupid.  We got Shipley for next to nothing.  He has had over 400 snaps of in-game play which is more than enough to get an idea on him.  Geno maybe good in practice but one game isn't enough yet.

 

He needs competition as well and clearly our drafted center wasn't performing up to par in mini-camps.  Why wait till training camp when his value would go up?  Get him early for no more than a 6th.

[Bltravens]

I wonder if this pushes anyone out.

 

Obviously McKinnie, Osemele, Gradkowski, Yanda, and Oher are guaranteed.  They seem to really like Wagner and Jensen as well, so I'll assume they make it.  I doubt we carry 10 lineman, so there are two spots for Shipley, Reid, and Harewood.  Obviously this is dependent on Shipley performing well enough to earn a spot.

They'll stash Jensen on the PS.  Wagner will make the team outright as a 5th round pick.  Jensen is learning how to play the interior line positions.