Joe Flacco #100 on PFF's top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

[easternshore97]

I get you are comparing him to Kaepernick so you have to start with week 9 when Kaep started playing, but nowhere in here do you address that the miserable first 8 weeks of the season where Joe was extremely inconsistent therefore making this ranking warranted. I agree with you I would have put him higher no doubt (and Russell Wilson MUCH lower) but he is on the listed so I guess it isn't super outrageous.

 

Now...

 

Before you fly off the handle at me, I am not a hater. I like Joe a lot and looking at the numbers you are right, from week 9 on he played much better and of course the only time it really does matter, from the must-win Giants game throughout the postseason, Joe cool was well Joe cool. What I guess I am saying is that all these rankings are so subjective and completely bogus because most rely on stats and not as much on winning as they should (see Tony Romo's ranking). What they need to do is make a ranking of players in the regular season and a ranking of players in the post-season (when it matters). In a ranking of players in the post-season Joe ranks up at the top. In a ranking of the regular season, anywhere from 8-11 seems appropriate RIGHT NOW because he has not put together a totally stellar complete season YET. However, I will end this with saying I fully expect that to change next year and for Joe to have his best, most complete season to date and when these rankings come out this time next year I think Joe will get much more respect and be much higher than he is now where he clearly deserves to be and where we all know he should be. Just my two-cents!

 

Well, he must not have been too bad during those first 8 games, as he put his team in a position to have that 6-2 record during that time.  But part of the point was that Kaepernick didn't perform as well as Flacco when you line up his time playing with Flacco's performance in that same time frame, and Flacco produced 6 wins prior to that, while Kaepernick produced nothing as a benchwarmer for the first 8 games of the season.

 

Exaggerating a bit are we??

 

"...miserable first 8 weeks of the season..." =

• Week 1 Performance - 299 yds passing, 2 TD/0 Int, 72% completion rate
• Week 3 Performance* - 382 yds passing, 3 TD/1 Int, 72% completion rate
• Week 4 Performance - 356 yds passing, 1 TD/1 Int, 61% completion rate
• Week 6 Performance - 234 yds passing, 1 TD/0 Int, 64% completion rate

* - earned Fed Ex Air Player of the week (and then would go on to win the award a 2nd time in week 10 against Oakland)

[Gordo52]

Pro bowls + high QBR = "Elite" QB.

PFT logic

[Speed Kills]

Exaggerating a bit are we??

 

"...miserable first 8 weeks of the season..." =

• Week 1 Performance - 299 yds passing, 2 TD/0 Int, 72% completion rate
• Week 3 Performance* - 382 yds passing, 3 TD/1 Int, 72% completion rate
• Week 4 Performance - 356 yds passing, 1 TD/1 Int, 61% completion rate
• Week 6 Performance - 234 yds passing, 1 TD/0 Int, 64% completion rate

* - earned Fed Ex Air Player of the week (and then would go on to win the award a 2nd time in week 10 against Oakland)

haha come on bro you conveniently left out weeks 2, 5, 7 and even 8 to a lesser degree. He was awful the first 3, but fortunately our boys dug deep and picked up the slack around him and we managed to go 2-2 in those games. Partially because the wins were against KC and Cleveland who both are terrible and we really barely squeaked those out. Fortunately we had a knack for winning close games and we went 6-2 instead of something like 4-4 over those 8 weeks. Games like those I believe he fixes and cuts out in this upcoming season and we won't be having this conversation next year when he is ranked much higher, gets much more respect. But for right now looking back on the regular season... no I don't think I am exaggerating. At the end of the day though I really could care less about the rankings. The man balls out, wins a ton of games, and is almost always clutch when the big lights are brightest. That's really all you want from your guy and something players admire like crazy regardless if he is ranked 100 or 1 on some dumb list.

[flynismo]

haha come on bro you conveniently left out weeks 2, 5, 7 and even 8 to a lesser degree. He was awful the first 3, but fortunately our boys dug deep and picked up the slack around him and we managed to go 2-2 in those games. Partially because the wins were against KC and Cleveland who both are terrible and we really barely squeaked those out. Fortunately we had a knack for winning close games and we went 6-2 instead of something like 4-4 over those 8 weeks. Games like those I believe he fixes and cuts out in this upcoming season and we won't be having this conversation next year when he is ranked much higher, gets much more respect. But for right now looking back on the regular season... no I don't think I am exaggerating. At the end of the day though I really could care less about the rankings. The man balls out, wins a ton of games, and is almost always clutch when the big lights are brightest. That's really all you want from your guy and something players admire like crazy regardless if he is ranked 100 or 1 on some dumb list.

I think all he was saying is that when you say "miserable 8 weeks", we think of two months of Mark Sanchez. Then we actually look back at it, and well, there were just a couple bad games and a couple meh games, and all the rest were damn good.

But I agree, none of that means jack. We got rid of Cam Cameron, and Joe started coming into his own, which is what some of us anticipated for a while now...Joe will never get the respect from outsiders, but the beautiful thing is, he doesn't feel like he needs it.

[ellicottraven]

Hey now! You have inadvertently dignified this nonsensical list! For Flacco to be #100 is so ridiculous, it ceases to stay in the realm of logic.

[codizzle]

flynismo PFF • an hour ago

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  30 - 50 mistakes is being conservative. No wonder everyone thinks this site is garbage.

Best comment on the entire list lol.

Fly...whats the thing kids are doing these days? +35? Think that qualifies lol.

All the cool kids are doing it

+35

[Purple Nurple]

All the cool kids are doing it

+35

Noice

[TonyTone1192]

Lol it doesn't matter.
You know what is important..?
5 playoff appearance in his first 5 season. AT LEAST one win in each of those appearances. 63 wins in his first 5 seasons. -All NFL QB records btw.
3 AFC championship games.
1 SB ring
1SB MVP
& 11tds w/ 0ints this past postseason. Only other QB to do that was another guy by the name of Joe.

Lol I'm so glad that Joe is more focused on winning than his "ranking" in the league.

It doesn't bother him so it shouldn't bother us.

[DMH_in_WA]

Seriously .. as a Ravens fan, how does this stuff even tick any of you off anymore?  This is constant.  At this point, you watch the Ravens (especially in 2000 and last year) and you realize that the phrase "your hatred only makes us stronger" is truth for this team.  You lavish them with accolades and make them favorites and they play like a middle of the road team, playing down to whoever they play ... you disrespect them .... you hate them .. you give them a reason to shove the ball down their opponents throats and they elevate there game and become world beaters. 

 

I'm perfectly fine with that.  You wanna put Flacco 2 spots ahead of Jamarcus Russell on the all-time QB list ... go ahead.  You wanna make excuses for why your team "should have won" in the playoffs and how the only reason the Ravens won was because the NFL put the fix in for them ... be my guest.  You wanna hate my team?  Please do ... like them, it only makes me stronger.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't care what some statistical website has Flacco ranked. We all know his worth. Let the haters hate. I think Flacco's easily a top 10 or better quarterback. No question

[JEEPercreepermd]

People completely fetishize statistics these days. The question that all of the haters refuse to answer is..Would you take a QB like Flacco who WINS games, never gets hurt, 5 playoff appearences, 3 AFC championship games..or would you take a QB who puts up 400 yds every week and can't make the playoffs..

Funny how if you go to the forums of all the teams that need a quarterback...Flacco's name cam up A LOT before he signed the deal.

Flacco's STATS are comparable to or exceed most of the all time greats through 5 seasons.. Let them keep hating while Joe hoists the trophy 2 or 3 more times in his career

[callahan09]

People talking about Flacco's "abysmal" / "awful" / "terrible" / "horrible" performances, whatever you want to call them, I have to wonder if you forget reality... Week 2 @ Eagles... Flacco's receivers were getting mugged and interfered with all game long, and the replacement refs didn't throw one single flag.  Not too easy to complete a pass when the opposing D isn't playing fair and you can't find one open receiver.  Despite that, he threw the game-sealing TD to Jacoby Jones that was called back for a ridiculous offensive PI.  They weren't calling defensive PI against the Eagles all game, and then they have the audacity to call that offensive PI?  Joe Flacco did what he could that game, the refs took it away.

 

Look at the game against the Texans... statistically a terrible game, but if you WATCH the game, he wasn't that bad.  The offensive line was atrocious.  Joe had JJ Watt in his face in .2 second on almost every down, half of the game was him running for his life and just trying to throw the ball away, and our line wasn't doing their job of keeping their defensive line grounded... they consistently let them jump and extend their arms and get a hand on the ball.  That should never happen, and it happened constantly.

 

The one thing I can honestly say about Flacco's "bad" games is that they are pretty much always a symptom of the entire offense playing badly.  It's not like the line is out there fighting their butts off, the receivers are running clean routes and getting open, or anything like that... The whole team fails to do their job, Flacco is under pressure or duress every down, the receivers are getting no separation... these are the things that happen on those games where Flacco's numbers are down.  This causes a poor completion percentage and a lack of production.  Even including all of those factors, he still rarely turns the ball over.  2 INTs is the most he's had in a single game in the last 54 games played.  And he's only had that many 3 times in that span.  I blame Cam Cameron for these games, not Joe Flacco.  Sometimes Cam's game plan was just totally wrong, and the play calls were just so far off the mark... That's why the *entire offense* would stall and struggle.  In those situations, when you've got a coach and 10 players who can't get it done, how can you expect Flacco alone to complete passes or make plays?

[Bltravens]

People completely fetishize statistics these days. The question that all of the haters refuse to answer is..Would you take a QB like Flacco who WINS games, never gets hurt, 5 playoff appearences, 3 AFC championship games..or would you take a QB who puts up 400 yds every week and can't make the playoffs..

Funny how if you go to the forums of all the teams that need a quarterback...Flacco's name cam up A LOT before he signed the deal.

Flacco's STATS are comparable to or exceed most of the all time greats through 5 seasons.. Let them keep hating while Joe hoists the trophy 2 or 3 more times in his career

Matt Stafford everyone!

 

[SteelersProphet]

Flacco is one of those QBs who will never get love.....just like Ben

 

because we have strong teams around them and they aren't putting up 5000 yard seasons

 

when people or writers vote on this stuff they vote for wow factor.....and flacco's wow factor is that he has never missed the playoffs and consistently wins games.....but the only people that are wowed by that are ravens fans because other teams don't care if your a consistent winner.....they like Kaepernick's razzle dazzle. no non ravens fan is going to say "did you see all those games flacco won wow" they are more likely to say "did you see that run by Kaepernick wow." its not right but its how these lists work.

[jimmypowder]

PFF=Team Stream After that Flacco ranking ,yes it's true .

[gabefergy]

I don't care what some statistical website has Flacco ranked. We all know his worth. Let the haters hate. I think Flacco's easily a top 10 or better quarterback. No question

Exactly. I just laugh at the ignorant folk who say "Flacco got lucky" or "Boldin bailed him out". Flacco is a top 5 QB in my book, and there is only 1 QB in the NFL I would rather have in a vacuum to build a Franchise around.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name="gabefergy" post="1465968" timestamp="1368125631"] Exactly. I just laugh at the ignorant folk who say "Flacco got lucky" or "Boldin bailed him out". Flacco is a top 5 QB in my book, and there is only 1 QB in the NFL I would rather have in a vacuum to build a Franchise around.[/quote] Yeah I agree with you . Rodgers,Peyton,Brady,Bree's then Joe . That's how I see it .I think you gotta rank Joe over Eli,Rivers,Big Ben,Cap,Cam,Romo, ,RG 3 Matty Ice,Wilson . Who of the second group do you put over Joe?

[arnie_uk]

If you look At his individual games and corresponding ratings you see a pattern. Low completion percentage gives you an awful rating. Much like traditional qbr

[easternshore97]

haha come on bro you conveniently left out weeks 2, 5, 7 and even 8 to a lesser degree. He was awful the first 3, but fortunately our boys dug deep and picked up the slack around him and we managed to go 2-2 in those games. Partially because the wins were against KC and Cleveland who both are terrible and we really barely squeaked those out. Fortunately we had a knack for winning close games and we went 6-2 instead of something like 4-4 over those 8 weeks. Games like those I believe he fixes and cuts out in this upcoming season and we won't be having this conversation next year when he is ranked much higher, gets much more respect. But for right now looking back on the regular season... no I don't think I am exaggerating. At the end of the day though I really could care less about the rankings. The man balls out, wins a ton of games, and is almost always clutch when the big lights are brightest. That's really all you want from your guy and something players admire like crazy regardless if he is ranked 100 or 1 on some dumb list.

Wasn't being convenient about anything. Weeks 2,5,7, and 8 might suggest something. But your statement was about the first 8 weeks being miserable, so I was just reminding you of the facts or the stats. You act like in Weeks 5 and 7 the whole team played well and Joe was the only one that was awful. Mind you Week 5 was a 9-6 win and Week 7 was a 41-something whomping.

 

Was Joe running for his life with Jah Reid and Bobbie Williams "blocking" up front or was Joe running for his life? The fumble in the first quarter of the Philly game was your boy Michael Oher getting beat [BADLY] on the left side, and he still played decent in that game. For the record, he completed 63% of his passes with 1 TD, 0 Ints in the 8th game of the year.

 

I'm calling you out on the initial soundbyte 'cause your argument does not add up with the facts, nor are you able to convincingly state that his first 8 games were 8 consecutive games of misery. Perhaps you confused his first 8 games with another AFC North QB??? Don't be up in these forums making arguments with only 33% of the facts bro. That's for the Skips, and Stephen A's, and Heath E's and the knuckleheads that co-host with Eric Davis on NFL Morning shows

[Speed Kills]

Wasn't being convenient about anything. Weeks 2,5,7, and 8 might suggest something. But your statement was about the first 8 weeks being miserable, so I was just reminding you of the facts or the stats. You act like in Weeks 5 and 7 the whole team played well and Joe was the only one that was awful. Mind you Week 5 was a 9-6 win and Week 7 was a 41-something whomping.

 

Was Joe running for his life with Jah Reid and Bobbie Williams "blocking" up front or was Joe running for his life? The fumble in the first quarter of the Philly game was your boy Michael Oher getting beat [BADLY] on the left side, and he still played decent in that game. For the record, he completed 63% of his passes with 1 TD, 0 Ints in the 8th game of the year.

 

I'm calling you out on the initial soundbyte 'cause your argument does not add up with the facts, nor are you able to convincingly state that his first 8 games were 8 consecutive games of misery. Perhaps you confused his first 8 games with another AFC North QB??? Don't be up in these forums making arguments with only 33% of the facts bro. That's for the Skips, and Stephen A's, and Heath E's and the knuckleheads that co-host with Eric Davis on NFL Morning shows

Never did I say it was 8 consecutive games of misery. You are putting words in my mouth. I am standing by my statement that the first 8 weeks were miserable though because 4 great games, 3 terrible games and 1 so-so game (week 8 I still say was not good. Just because he threw for 63% doesn't mean he played lights out. Cleveland was in that game the whole time so if he had played lights out they wouldn't have been in the game.) was less than stellar. Tom Brady plays consistently well and that is what Joe is moving towards and what he is trying to attain to give our team the best chance to win. All I am saying is last year he wasn't quite there in the beginning of the season, but improved leaps and bounds at the end of the season and fully expect that to continue this year with Caldwell running the show on offense.

 

Finally, didn't mean to get you all upset and your panties up in a bunch. I was stating my well-thought out opinion and even trying to play devils-advocate a bit to try to reason as to why they may have ranked Joe this low, but clearly you took it personally bro.

[Militant X 1]

Remember this one? Yeah, turns out that cover was WRONG. Nobody gives Joe respect. Even winning a SB and looking like Montana while doing it will not change that. All that proves, that "sports analysis" is purely based on perception. People pick the guys they like, not the guys, that are the best objectively.

 

 

and with that being said...this is why all of this..."they hate us talk" and "we get no respect" speeches are pointless and useless imo.  our guys just need to do their jobs...do what our coaches and their teammates expect of them....and keep we fans happy by winning, winning and winning!  all of that media noise will be silenced!!! 

 

~Mili

[easternshore97]

Never did I say it was 8 consecutive games of misery. You are putting words in my mouth. I am standing by my statement that the first 8 weeks were miserable though because 4 great games, 3 terrible games and 1 so-so game (week 8 I still say was not good. Just because he threw for 63% doesn't mean he played lights out. Cleveland was in that game the whole time so if he had played lights out they wouldn't have been in the game.) was less than stellar. Tom Brady plays consistently well and that is what Joe is moving towards and what he is trying to attain to give our team the best chance to win. All I am saying is last year he wasn't quite there in the beginning of the season, but improved leaps and bounds at the end of the season and fully expect that to continue this year with Caldwell running the show on offense.

 

Finally, didn't mean to get you all upset and your panties up in a bunch. I was stating my well-thought out opinion and even trying to play devils-advocate a bit to try to reason as to why they may have ranked Joe this low, but clearly you took it personally bro.

1. 8 consecutive weeks of misery = 8 consecutive games of misery UNLESS you are referring to his time with the press, and his time in practice. How you see the 2 as totally different is quite the mystery to me. Normally when somebody talks about the first 8 weeks, they are talking about the first 8 weeks worth of games....you'll have to learn me on the difference
    
2. Wouldn't have called you "bro" if I was taking it "personally". Perhaps you are one of those folks that views words as sticks and stones. If your opinion was "well-thought out" , mine was well-thought out, supplemented by fact
    
3. Disclaimer - my definition of 8 consecutive weeks of misery would take into account the 7 games plus the 1 game after the bye. So perhaps that's where we are at a disconnect
    
4. It seems that people in these forums - those not written by Ellison, Mink, Eisenberg are really knowledgeable about football. They talk about both the good and the bad, without leaving out the facts. The only bias that they occasionally show is the fact that they are Ravens fans. Hate to say it, but I have a different opinion based on the comments I see on the Ellison, Mink, Eisenberg articles. I know what I know, and I learn stuff that I didn't know sometimes by just coming to this section. I don't think I'm smarter than anybody, but point is, if you want to blow smoke at people, do it there cause some people in there are posting crazy stuff like McKinnie is going to get beat out by an undrafted free agent for the LT position
    
5. Finally, in case you haven't noticed, regarding your statement about Cleveland, we don't seem to ever blow them out. They always play us pretty close. I'm saying that off of memory and not fact checking. So if you think Joe didn't play well - or however/whatever words you use to describe his performance so that you don't think I'm putting words in your mouth - you should check out the scores of the 10 games that we've beat them in the last 5 seasons. I don't recall a game where Cleveland wasn't in it the whole 60 mins. He threw for 350+ in the first game, and if you recall the PF on P Freddie Kruger, that game went down to the last play. So if the words you used to describe how Cleveland in the 2nd game hold true vs his performance in the Thursday night game your thought-process (NOT the words) would suggest that he didn't play well on Thursday...But whatever his yardage total was, that was for 3 quarters because they eventually stopped throwing (he actually had 40 pass attempts by the end of the 3rd quarter)

But don't worry. I'm not going to be politico.org or factcheck.org. I simply had more time on my hands today...but seriously, if nothing else you need to learn me on the difference between '...the miserable first 8 weeks of the season...' and 8 consecutive games of misery cause I used to think it was ok to substitute "week 1" with "game 1"...but I'm all about understanding different viewpoints.

[Speed Kills]

 

But don't worry. I'm not going to be politico.org or factcheck.org. I simply had more time on my hands today...but seriously, if nothing else you need to learn me on the difference between '...the miserable first 8 weeks of the season...' and 8 consecutive games of misery cause I used to think it was ok to substitute "week 1" with "game 1"...but I'm all about understanding different viewpoints.

 

8 consecutive games of misery would indicate he is Mark Sanchez. He is not nor even close. I guess the point I was driving at is that in my eyes he had 4 good games and 4 bad games/so-so games depending on how you classify them. I describe that stretch as miserable because you never knew which Joe was going to show up due to the inconsistency. Once again he made great strides to fix this at the end of the season and I fully expect him to be more consistent next year. Also Sanchez was so bad that Joe's bad game could be classified as Sanchez's good game lol 

[easternshore97]

8 consecutive games of misery would indicate he is Mark Sanchez. He is not nor even close. I guess the point I was driving at is that in my eyes he had 4 good games and 4 bad games/so-so games depending on how you classify them. I describe that stretch as miserable because you never knew which Joe was going to show up due to the inconsistency. Once again he made great strides to fix this at the end of the season and I fully expect him to be more consistent next year. Also Sanchez was so bad that Joe's bad game could be classified as Sanchez's good game lol 

Ah. I see now.

 

This is strictly opinion so feel free to call me out on it: Ravens could go 11-5 next year, get in to the playoffs w/Joe at 4,000+ yds passing or somewhere around 3,800. They would still put him at the bottom of the barrel. They've made their mind up about him. He could retire with 3 Super Bowl wins and they would still say something like 'Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer also managed to win 1' and then they'd proceed to tell you 'Marino never won...but Super Bowl rings alone don't tell the story...'

 

Nothing would make me happier than to see Joe perform "average" for a few more seasons, and then raise his game in the playoffs to help the team win it all just to stick it to all the 1.800.HATERS over and over and over again

[Speed Kills]

Ah. I see now.

 

This is strictly opinion so feel free to call me out on it: Ravens could go 11-5 next year, get in to the playoffs w/Joe at 4,000+ yds passing or somewhere around 3,800. They would still put him at the bottom of the barrel. They've made their mind up about him. He could retire with 3 Super Bowl wins and they would still say something like 'Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer also managed to win 1' and then they'd proceed to tell you 'Marino never won...but Super Bowl rings alone don't tell the story...'

 

Nothing would make me happier than to see Joe perform "average" for a few more seasons, and then raise his game in the playoffs to help the team win it all just to stick it to all the 1.800.HATERS over and over and over again

Agree to disagree on this. Especially when guys like Manning and Brady start retiring in a few more years and guys like Ryan and Romo still fail to get it done in the playoffs they will give Joe more love.

 

Totally agree on raising his game in the playoffs though