Joe Flacco #100 on PFF's top 101 of 2012 (and why it's ridiculous)

[callahan09]

I checked... this *does not* try to discount the post-season... post-season play is considered here.  Given that, Flacco at #100 is an absolute joke.

 

Just for starters I'll analyze Flacco against Kaepernick (#81, almost 20 spots higher).

 

Kaepernick started playing in Game 9.  Comparing their work since Game 9 and including the play-offs:

 

Flacco had a 99.5 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had a 99.3.

Flacco had 7 games with over a 100 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had 5.

Flacco threw 23 TDs and 4 INTs.  Kaepernick threw 14 TDs and 5 INTs.

Flacco had 25 total TDs.  Kaepernick had 20 total TDs.

Flacco had 7 fumbles.  Kaepernick had 9 fumbles.

Flacco threw for 2967 yards.  Kaepernick threw for 2523 yards.

Flacco played in 6 road games during that stretch.  Kaepernick played in 5 road games.

Flacco played against a 0.607 strength of schedule.  Kaepernick played against a 0.574 SOS.

Flacco played 8 games against teams with winning records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 10 games against teams with .500 or better records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 7 games against playoff teams.  Kaepernick played 5 games.

Flacco won the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick lost the Super Bowl.

 

The only area where Kaepernick outplayed Flacco during that time was in terms of rushing yards, but including those yards he and Flacco come out pretty close to even in terms of total yards produced.  People say Flacco benefited from a bad play against Denver, well that was *one play*.  Kaepernick's rushing stats benefited from an entire game worth of just horrible, abysmal, totally inexcusable play by the Green Bay defense.  So call it a wash there.

 

Across the whole season, Flacco had 33 TDs and 10 INTs (a 3.3:1 ratio), while  Kaepernick had 14 TD and 5 INTs (a 2.8:1 ratio).

 

Including rushing TDs and fumbles, Flacco had 36 TDs and 20 INTS+Fumbles (a 1.8:1 ratio), while Kaepernick had 22 TDs and 15 INTs+Fumbles (a 1.47:1 ratio).

 

They also put Eli Manning ahead of Flacco, despite Flacco having the better regular season in terms of passer rating, and team record, and got his team to the play-offs with a win head-to-head against Eli Manning in what was essentially a must-win for both teams.  I don't even have to look at the post-season to see why Flacco shouldn't be rated lower than Eli, but when you put in Flacco's post-season, you can see that it's just absolutely absurd.

[berad]

PFF is all opinion based under a mask of pseudo-science and has been losing its touch especially with some of the ridiculous rankings they put out.

Also notice that Anquan is higher.

I'll never forget them trying to say that Matt Birk was the second best center in the league in 2010 or 2011.

[tctony]

Media/fans that aren't Baltimore fans hate us, whats new?

[Ravenslifer]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Khaled Elsayed has something personal against Joe.  I don't know what it is, but I'll never forget him writing some article about the number of dropped balls receivers had in 2012, then correlating that to Joe's number of drops in 2011 and saying Joe "had no excuses" with accuracy, it was all his fault.  Obviously the fact that we were in the bottom of the league in drops in 2011 didn't matter to Elsayed.

[PolishRifle]

Remember this one? Yeah, turns out that cover was WRONG. Nobody gives Joe respect. Even winning a SB and looking like Montana while doing it will not change that. All that proves, that "sports analysis" is purely based on perception. People pick the guys they like, not the guys, that are the best objectively.

 

[PurpleCityLights]

We are the Baltimore Ravens!!!! Y'all dont know people hate us by now......

[berad]

Read the comments of the article

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/06/pffs-top-101-of-2012-the-full-list/

 

 

Scathing :lol:. Also, how do you leave a 1,500 yard rusher - Jamaal Charles - off the list entirely? Again, PFF is losing its touch.

[callahan09]

Remember this one? Yeah, turns out that cover was WRONG. Nobody gives Joe respect. Even winning a SB and looking like Montana while doing it will not change that. All that proves, that "sports analysis" is purely based on perception. People pick the guys they like, not the guys, that are the best objectively.

 

The funny thing about that headline was that they were kind of taunting Flacco, trying to put more pressure on him.  They were backhandedly saying "Your current legacy is that you're a choker and you're not a great quarterback."  He goes out and gets it done, but nobody seems to care.  That's because they didn't care then.  They didn't *want* him to succeed and now that he has, they'll just pretend it was never worth thinking about in the first place.

[Speed Kills]

 

I checked... this *does not* try to discount the post-season... post-season play is considered here.  Given that, Flacco at #100 is an absolute joke.

 

Just for starters I'll analyze Flacco against Kaepernick (#81, almost 20 spots higher).

 

Kaepernick started playing in Game 9.  Comparing their work since Game 9 and including the play-offs:

 

Flacco had a 99.5 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had a 99.3.

Flacco had 7 games with over a 100 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had 5.

Flacco threw 23 TDs and 4 INTs.  Kaepernick threw 14 TDs and 5 INTs.

Flacco had 25 total TDs.  Kaepernick had 20 total TDs.

Flacco had 7 fumbles.  Kaepernick had 9 fumbles.

Flacco threw for 2967 yards.  Kaepernick threw for 2523 yards.

Flacco played in 6 road games during that stretch.  Kaepernick played in 5 road games.

Flacco played against a 0.607 strength of schedule.  Kaepernick played against a 0.574 SOS.

Flacco played 8 games against teams with winning records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 10 games against teams with .500 or better records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 7 games against playoff teams.  Kaepernick played 5 games.

Flacco won the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick lost the Super Bowl.

 

The only area where Kaepernick outplayed Flacco during that time was in terms of rushing yards, but including those yards he and Flacco come out pretty close to even in terms of total yards produced.  People say Flacco benefited from a bad play against Denver, well that was *one play*.  Kaepernick's rushing stats benefited from an entire game worth of just horrible, abysmal, totally inexcusable play by the Green Bay defense.  So call it a wash there.

 

Across the whole season, Flacco had 33 TDs and 10 INTs (a 3.3:1 ratio), while  Kaepernick had 14 TD and 5 INTs (a 2.8:1 ratio).

 

Including rushing TDs and fumbles, Flacco had 36 TDs and 20 INTS+Fumbles (a 1.8:1 ratio), while Kaepernick had 22 TDs and 15 INTs+Fumbles (a 1.47:1 ratio).

 

They also put Eli Manning ahead of Flacco, despite Flacco having the better regular season in terms of passer rating, and team record, and got his team to the play-offs with a win head-to-head against Eli Manning in what was essentially a must-win for both teams.  I don't even have to look at the post-season to see why Flacco shouldn't be rated lower than Eli, but when you put in Flacco's post-season, you can see that it's just absolutely absurd.

 

I get you are comparing him to Kaepernick so you have to start with week 9 when Kaep started playing, but nowhere in here do you address that the miserable first 8 weeks of the season where Joe was extremely inconsistent therefore making this ranking warranted. I agree with you I would have put him higher no doubt (and Russell Wilson MUCH lower) but he is on the listed so I guess it isn't super outrageous.

 

Now...

 

Before you fly off the handle at me, I am not a hater. I like Joe a lot and looking at the numbers you are right, from week 9 on he played much better and of course the only time it really does matter, from the must-win Giants game throughout the postseason, Joe cool was well Joe cool. What I guess I am saying is that all these rankings are so subjective and completely bogus because most rely on stats and not as much on winning as they should (see Tony Romo's ranking). What they need to do is make a ranking of players in the regular season and a ranking of players in the post-season (when it matters). In a ranking of players in the post-season Joe ranks up at the top. In a ranking of the regular season, anywhere from 8-11 seems appropriate RIGHT NOW because he has not put together a totally stellar complete season YET. However, I will end this with saying I fully expect that to change next year and for Joe to have his best, most complete season to date and when these rankings come out this time next year I think Joe will get much more respect and be much higher than he is now where he clearly deserves to be and where we all know he should be. Just my two-cents!

[callahan09]

I get you are comparing him to Kaepernick so you have to start with week 9 when Kaep started playing, but nowhere in here do you address that the miserable first 8 weeks of the season where Joe was extremely inconsistent therefore making this ranking warranted. I agree with you I would have put him higher no doubt (and Russell Wilson MUCH lower) but he is on the listed so I guess it isn't super outrageous.

 

Now...

 

Before you fly off the handle at me, I am not a hater. I like Joe a lot and looking at the numbers you are right, from week 9 on he played much better and of course the only time it really does matter, from the must-win Giants game throughout the postseason, Joe cool was well Joe cool. What I guess I am saying is that all these rankings are so subjective and completely bogus because most rely on stats and not as much on winning as they should (see Tony Romo's ranking). What they need to do is make a ranking of players in the regular season and a ranking of players in the post-season (when it matters). In a ranking of players in the post-season Joe ranks up at the top. In a ranking of the regular season, anywhere from 8-11 seems appropriate RIGHT NOW because he has not put together a totally stellar complete season YET. However, I will end this with saying I fully expect that to change next year and for Joe to have his best, most complete season to date and when these rankings come out this time next year I think Joe will get much more respect and be much higher than he is now where he clearly deserves to be and where we all know he should be. Just my two-cents!

 

 

Well, he must not have been too bad during those first 8 games, as he put his team in a position to have that 6-2 record during that time.  But part of the point was that Kaepernick didn't perform as well as Flacco when you line up his time playing with Flacco's performance in that same time frame, and Flacco produced 6 wins prior to that, while Kaepernick produced nothing as a benchwarmer for the first 8 games of the season.

[J-man]

I never heard of Pro Football Focus ... they have as much creditbility to me as Bleacher Report (aka zero). I'd pay attention to NFL Network's list, before I'd even consider taking his website for a gain of salt.

[cwfRaven]

That's ok. Go ahead, put the chip on the Ravens shoulder now so they have a few months to stew about it...

 

Dumbarse.

[AsianRice]

Joe: PFF, is that your ring on the floor?

PFF: uhhh...yeah..yeah..

Joe; but the ring said Ravens SB ring...

PFF:oh yeah?

[rlh445]

Well guys I suppose we should feel lucky that he even made the list at all  :229031_rant:

[MrPlankton]

Basically, most people decided a long time ago that they hate Flacco, that he sucks, and that nothing he does will ever matter because they dislike the Ravens, Ray Lewis, Flacco's mustache, etc.

 

These kind of people will just make excuses any time Flacco does anything in a game.

[flynismo]

It's PFF...

 

Now maybe people will finally stop quoting them as if it means something when we discuss players

[1/28/01]

Flacco sucks and we all know it.

Going in the first round? Luck
5 consecutive playoff appearances? All defense
A playoff win in all 5 playoffs? Ray Rice
Beating Manning AND Brady (again)? Didn't happen
SB MVP? They just didnt want to give Ray another
Big contract? Clearly Ozzie is a horrible GM
Nasty playoff run with 11 TDs and ZERO INTs? So easy Montana could do it

PFF sucks...blow it out their flimflam hole!

[CapoRocky]

 

I checked... this *does not* try to discount the post-season... post-season play is considered here.  Given that, Flacco at #100 is an absolute joke.

 

Just for starters I'll analyze Flacco against Kaepernick (#81, almost 20 spots higher).

 

Kaepernick started playing in Game 9.  Comparing their work since Game 9 and including the play-offs:

 

Flacco had a 99.5 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had a 99.3.

Flacco had 7 games with over a 100 QB Rating.  Kaepernick had 5.

Flacco threw 23 TDs and 4 INTs.  Kaepernick threw 14 TDs and 5 INTs.

Flacco had 25 total TDs.  Kaepernick had 20 total TDs.

Flacco had 7 fumbles.  Kaepernick had 9 fumbles.

Flacco threw for 2967 yards.  Kaepernick threw for 2523 yards.

Flacco played in 6 road games during that stretch.  Kaepernick played in 5 road games.

Flacco played against a 0.607 strength of schedule.  Kaepernick played against a 0.574 SOS.

Flacco played 8 games against teams with winning records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 10 games against teams with .500 or better records.  Kaepernick, 6 games.

Flacco played 7 games against playoff teams.  Kaepernick played 5 games.

Flacco won the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick lost the Super Bowl.

 

The only area where Kaepernick outplayed Flacco during that time was in terms of rushing yards, but including those yards he and Flacco come out pretty close to even in terms of total yards produced.  People say Flacco benefited from a bad play against Denver, well that was *one play*.  Kaepernick's rushing stats benefited from an entire game worth of just horrible, abysmal, totally inexcusable play by the Green Bay defense.  So call it a wash there.

 

Across the whole season, Flacco had 33 TDs and 10 INTs (a 3.3:1 ratio), while  Kaepernick had 14 TD and 5 INTs (a 2.8:1 ratio).

 

Including rushing TDs and fumbles, Flacco had 36 TDs and 20 INTS+Fumbles (a 1.8:1 ratio), while Kaepernick had 22 TDs and 15 INTs+Fumbles (a 1.47:1 ratio).

 

They also put Eli Manning ahead of Flacco, despite Flacco having the better regular season in terms of passer rating, and team record, and got his team to the play-offs with a win head-to-head against Eli Manning in what was essentially a must-win for both teams.  I don't even have to look at the post-season to see why Flacco shouldn't be rated lower than Eli, but when you put in Flacco's post-season, you can see that it's just absolutely absurd.

 

Not only that, Kaepernick choked with 4 downs in the red zone and a chance to win the biggest game of his life.

[gabefergy]

PFF is fine at grading some positions, but QB is where it gets really subjective and frankly a bunch of garbage. There are just too many variables to fit into the type of grading system they use.

[Gordo52]

What a joke list, and joke website!

[ROH522155]

Joe is #1 in my heart and that's all that matters. :)

[Bltravens]

flynismo  PFF • an hour ago

• 30 - 50 mistakes is being conservative. No wonder everyone thinks this site is garbage.

   

 

Best comment on the entire list lol.

Fly...whats the thing kids are doing these days?  +35?  Think that qualifies lol.

[Moderator 3]

PFF + PFT = pfffffffft!

[flynismo]

 

flynismo  PFF • an hour ago

• 30 - 50 mistakes is being conservative. No wonder everyone thinks this site is garbage.

   

 

Best comment on the entire list lol.

Fly...whats the thing kids are doing these days?  +35?  Think that qualifies lol.

 

 

I had to edit it to get one last smartaleck remark in...the guy just is a total jackass. Could you imagine an actual professional columnist or site responding to their readers in such a condescending tone?

[Yatagarasu]

ProFootballFocus only focuses on stats. At least they have something to base off and support their work. Unlike only self-appointed NFL experts saying whatever to please the audience. 

 

Anyways, it's true that Flacco hasn't really lit it up in the regular season and haven't even broke the 4000 yard plateau. However, I feel that's all trivial since we know he is capable up putting Hall of Fame numbers. He tied Joe Montana in TDs and INTs. Also, he was facing no push-over defenses like Denver and San Francisco.

 

The media can say whatever they want on Flacco, but the franchise, the team, and certainty our Raven Nation knows the value of Flacco.

 

He justified that huge price tag because we know what the dark ages of Boller, Grbac, and Redman were like. 

[berad]

ProFootballFocus only focuses on stats. At least they have something to base off and support their work. Unlike only self-appointed NFL experts saying whatever to please the audience. 

 

Anyways, it's true that Flacco hasn't really lit it up in the regular season and haven't even broke the 4000 yard plateau. However, I feel that's all trivial since we know he is capable up putting Hall of Fame numbers. He tied Joe Montana in TDs and INTs. Also, he was facing no push-over defenses like Denver and San Francisco.

 

The media can say whatever they want on Flacco, but the franchise, the team, and certainty our Raven Nation knows the value of Flacco.

 

He justified that huge price tag because we know what the dark ages of Boller, Grbac, and Redman were like. 

 

They really don't. Check out their methodology on some of their other 'ranking' articles. Much of it is subjective and none of it is actually statistical.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

PFF + PFT = pfffffffft!

Clever 

I agree

[NaveSenrag]

Not only that, Kaepernick choked with 4 downs in the red zone and a chance to win the biggest game of his life.

Yeah. The defense had nothing to do with it.

Hey Callahan, do you have a rundown on Flacco's lowest QB Ratings vs. Kaepernick's?

Also, are you using QBR, or the NFL's QB rankings?

[easternshore97]

Media/fans that aren't Baltimore fans hate us, whats new?

I posted this link in another forum: http://www.nfl.com/videos/baltimore-ravens/0ap2000000167185/Is-the-Baltimore-Ravens-roster-Super-Bowl-XLVIII-worthy

 

Can't believe the comment '...Flacco needs to step it up...' Did Eli get that much hate after his first Super Bowl? I imagine everyone had to have given credit to G-men's front 4 only?? But he had to have gotten some love...right?

[Grendelwulf21]

PFF + PFT = pfffffffft!

More F's Please!!!!

 

This is a little tiny bit a lot bunches of oats ridiculous