More 4-3?

[sporaven]

As Ravens fans know, we know our team likes to switch between 3-4 and 4-3 fronts a lot. Different coordinators lean more heavily one way, but generally there is a good mix of the two.

 

It seems to me that this year with our extreme d line depth, lack of linebacker depth, and the emphasis on the mantra "best 11 on the field", we will probably playing more 4-3 this year.

 

Either way, how do you think our front 7 will look when we do line up in 4-3 this year? That 2nd OLB spot is tricky for me. Discounting guys like josh bynes who may not even make the roster. 

 

DE: Suggs, Mcphee
DT: Ngata, Williams
DT: Canty, Jones
DE: Doom, Upshaw, Simon

OLB: McClain
MLB: Brown
OLB: McClellan, Upshaw, Simon

[BallHawker]

With a speedy Art Brown in the middle, who will be able to cover TEs and have great horizontal coverage, we will be just fine running the 4-3, especially in run situations.

 

On a side note, wow this defensive 7 looks FRIGHTENING.

[Bltravens]

With a speedy Art Brown in the middle, who will be able to cover TEs and have great horizontal coverage, we will be just fine running the 4-3, especially in run situations.

 

On a side note, wow this defensive 7 looks FRIGHTENING.

Rarely does the Mike backer take the TE on in coverage.  Thats usually the Sams responsibility with the Will being backside coverage and blitzing ability.

We have no one to play the Will and our Sam backer in this situation is McClain who is terrible in man coverage.

[Yatagarasu]

I think 3-4 defense puts more talent on the field.

 

DE: Arthur Jones

DT: Haloti Ngata

DE: Chris Canty

 

OLB: Terrell Suggs
ILB: Rolando McClain
ILB: Arthur Brown
OLB: Elvis Dumervil

 

However we might shift one of our DE/OLBs hybrids to cover the SAM OLB spot if we shift to 4-3. So basically, we have an over/under defensive scheme that is interchangeable.

 

DE: Terrell Suggs
DT: Haloti Ngata

DT: Chris Canty

DE: Elvis Dumervil

 

SLB: Courtney Upshaw

MLB: Rolando McClain

WLB: Arthur Brown

 

[hawkprey]

I think  our front 4 depth chart should go:

 

Dumervile | McPhee | Ngata | Suggs

Upshaw       Jones     Canty    McAdoo

Simon         Tyson     Spears  Hamilton

 

 

And our linebackers (not really sure who'd go where):

 

McClellan  |    Brown     |  J. McClain

Bynes          R.McClain     Carr

Adkins              Hall        Copeland/Bryant

 

 

Notes:

Cody and B. Williams as non-present nose tackles. 

Lewis-Moore will probably be IR.

[Brandon22]

I think 3-4 defense puts more talent on the field.

 

DE: Arthur Jones

DT: Haloti Ngata

DE: Chris Canty

 

OLB: Terrell Suggs
ILB: Rolando McClain
ILB: Arthur Brown
OLB: Elvis Dumervil

 

However we might shift one of our DE/OLBs hybrids to cover the SAM OLB spot if we shift to 4-3. So basically, we have an over/under defensive scheme that is interchangeable.

 

DE: Terrell Suggs
DT: Haloti Ngata

DT: Chris Canty

DE: Elvis Dumervil

 

SLB: Courtney Upshaw

MLB: Rolando McClain

WLB: Arthur Brown

 

if you put Brandon Williams where canty is then we will dominate in a 4-3

[arnie_uk]

Brown would play will in a 4 3 and McClain MLB. Upshaw would be A good sam stuffing the run and covering into the flats.

[arnie_uk]

I think 3-4 defense puts more talent on the field.

DE: Arthur Jones
DT: Haloti Ngata
DE: Chris Canty

OLB: Terrell Suggs
ILB: Rolando McClain
ILB: Arthur Brown
OLB: Elvis Dumervil

However we might shift one of our DE/OLBs hybrids to cover the SAM OLB spot if we shift to 4-3. So basically, we have an over/under defensive scheme that is interchangeable.

DE: Terrell Suggs
DT: Haloti Ngata
DT: Chris Canty
DE: Elvis Dumervil

SLB: Courtney Upshaw
MLB: Rolando McClain
WLB: Arthur Brown

Yes, that's how I'd go.

[Cville-Raven]

Rarely does the Mike backer take the TE on in coverage.  Thats usually the Sams responsibility with the Will being backside coverage and blitzing ability.

We have no one to play the Will and our Sam backer in this situation is McClain who is terrible in man coverage.

Decosta said Arthur Brown will play Will in our D

[Bltravens]

Decosta said Arthur Brown will play Will in our D

 

The OP has him at Mike in the 43 alignment.  Thats why I commented on McClain being a bad fit at either Sam or Will.

[sporaven]

I think 3-4 defense puts more talent on the field.

 

DE: Arthur Jones

DT: Haloti Ngata

DE: Chris Canty

 

OLB: Terrell Suggs
ILB: Rolando McClain
ILB: Arthur Brown
OLB: Elvis Dumervil

 

 

I agree with this after thinking about it. If we want our best players on the field, 3-4 > 4-3 this year. Especially since everyone gets to stay at their natural position. Though I don't see the job going to R. McClain over a healthy J. McClain. 

[arnie_uk]

I agree with this after thinking about it. If we want our best players on the field, 3-4 > 4-3 this year. Especially since everyone gets to stay at their natural position. Though I don't see the job going to R. McClain over a healthy J. McClain.

rolando is a far better layer than McClain he just hasn't put it all together yet in his carrer, if we can straighten him out he will be a difference maker I think, big if though, big big if. Jameel is the definition of average. He's good depth.

[JoeyFlex5]

As Ravens fans know, we know our team likes to switch between 3-4 and 4-3 fronts a lot. Different coordinators lean more heavily one way, but generally there is a good mix of the two.
 
It seems to me that this year with our extreme d line depth, lack of linebacker depth, and the emphasis on the mantra "best 11 on the field", we will probably playing more 4-3 this year.
 
Either way, how do you think our front 7 will look when we do line up in 4-3 this year? That 2nd OLB spot is tricky for me. Discounting guys like josh bynes who may not even make the roster. 
 
DE: Suggs, Mcphee
DT: Ngata, Williams
DT: Canty, Jones
DE: Doom, Upshaw, Simon

OLB: McClain
MLB: Brown
OLB: McClellan, Upshaw, Simon

you forgot about marcus spears at DT and i would imagine brandon williams, if being used in a 4-3, would become a starter next to ngata before midseason, thats just my guess though. what makes this an awesome line up, is the versatility of our OLB's, they can almost all play DE or OLB in either scheme(besides 3-4 DE) so you could do things like line up suggs and doom on the same side, and have them swap spots before the snap, same goes with upshaw, simon, etc.

you could also move art jones, mcphee, ngata, spears, canty, upshaw, all of these players could be productive at ANY spot on a 4-3 d-line, on a limitied basis. the confusion that could be caused by ngata and jones playing DE, suggs playing LOLB, doom at ROLB, upshaw and mcphee at DT, and then throw in 4 different players and all in different positions on the very next snap.. organized chaos, ahh how i miss it, if we had rex ryan back, he would have a smile on his face 24-7 just thinking of the possibilities he would have

[edreed2o]

Arthur Brown can adjust quickly to a 3-4 I think. Dumervil has done well in a 3-4 and so has Terrell Suggs. If we want a better pass rush and the most talent on the field, go with the 3-4. I'm pretty sure we will go with that. I want the most out of our pass rush ability.

[Yatagarasu]

I think there's a chance we might see less Rolando/Jameel McClain at one of the ILB positions due to the fact that our team might use more nickel package.

 

If that's the case, I assume we use Courtney Upshaw more to fill in as the SAM OLB and ILB.

 

3-3 System Nickel:

 

DE: Terrell Suggs

NT: Haloti Ngata

DE: Chris Canty

 

RUSH/OLB: Elvis Dumervil

WILL/ILB: Arthur Brown
SAM/ILB: Courtney Upshaw

[Yatagarasu]

This is the possible 4-2 System:

 

DE: Terrell Suggs

DT: Haloti Ngata
DT: Chris Canty

DE: Elvis Dumervil

 

LB: Arthur Brown

LB: Jameel McClain

[Gordo52]

Regardless of what we use more we're going to have a terrifying defense.
Personally I rather see 5 DB's on the field most of the time. (Even in instances when we're not dominating on offense ;) )I'm really hoping J. Smith takes the next step this season, it would be huge.

[The Raven]

I think there's a chance we might see less Rolando/Jameel McClain at one of the ILB positions due to the fact that our team might use more nickel package.

 

If that's the case, I assume we use Courtney Upshaw more to fill in as the SAM OLB and ILB.

 

3-3 System Nickel:

 

DE: Terrell Suggs

NT: Haloti Ngata

DE: Chris Canty

 

RUSH/OLB: Elvis Dumervil

WILL/ILB: Arthur Brown
SAM/ILB: Courtney Upshaw

 

I like the 3-3, but that is far from the line up I would expect. Last year, we typically saw Suggs, Ngata/McPhee, and Kruger on the line with Ray, McClain/Ellerbe, and Ayanbadejo. Chris Canty doesn't get enough pressure off the edge to play DE in the 3-3 package. I would expect it to be Suggs - Canty/McPhee - Dumervil.

 

However, I don't think we have the LB core to run an effective Nickel 3-3. I expect we'll stick to more 4-2 looks on third down. I like your line up for the 4-2, but I think we'll see Jones, McPhee, or Upshaw in for Ngata, especially now that Spags is coming into the picture. He likes to run the nickel with 3 and 4 DE sets. He also likes using the wide nine on third down to maximize the abilities of the DEs. Pees already used Upshaw as a 3 tech on 3rd down, and I expect him to continue with that. I believe the Giants called this their "NASCAR Package." Our NASCAR would probably look like Suggs - McPhee - Upshaw - Dumervil.

[Guest nflfan123]

I expect to see a lot of 4-3 looks

 

McPhee/Rotation-Ngata-Canty-Doom looks good with Brown, Suggs, and Upshaw as the backers

[The Raven]

I expect to see a lot of 4-3 looks

 

McPhee/Rotation-Ngata-Canty-Doom looks good with Brown, Suggs, and Upshaw as the backers

 

Could you PLEASE explain to me why you think it makes logical sense to have Suggs and Upshaw as 4-3 OLBs? That would be a huge misuse of talent. 

 

Besides, we just drafted Brandon Williams and John Simon. I can't imagine us moving to a 4-3 when we just drafted the prototype 3-4 NT and OLB.

[Guest nflfan123]

Could you PLEASE explain to me why you think it makes logical sense to have Suggs and Upshaw as 4-3 OLBs? That would be a huge misuse of talent. 

 

Besides, we just drafted Brandon Williams and John Simon. I can't imagine us moving to a 4-3 when we just drafted the prototype 3-4 NT and OLB.

I never said move to 4-3. Just some more 4-3 looks. Upshaw makes sense as a 4-3 LB, you could but Suggs on the DL.

[The Raven]

I never said move to 4-3. Just some more 4-3 looks. Upshaw makes sense as a 4-3 LB, you could but Suggs on the DL.

 

4-3 OLBs need lateral quickness. That is Upshaw's biggest weakness.

 

It makes much more sense to have Dumervil at OLB with Upshaw and Suggs at DE. Dumervil is not a great run defender, and putting him four yards back might help him out. He's a much better player in space than Upshaw is,

[Guest nflfan123]

4-3 OLBs need lateral quickness. That is Upshaw's biggest weakness.

 

It makes much more sense to have Dumervil at OLB with Upshaw and Suggs at DE. Dumervil is not a great run defender, and putting him four yards back might help him out. He's a much better player in space than Upshaw is,

Doom played 4-3 DE for the bulk of his career. It makes more sense for Upshaw to play OLB because he has good pursuit skills and will help defend the run on Doom's side

[The Raven]

Doom played 4-3 DE for the bulk of his career. It makes more sense for Upshaw to play OLB because he has good pursuit skills and will help defend the run on Doom's side

 

Maybe. I trust Upshaw a lot more to hold up at the point of attack and set the edge. I don't trust Dumervil to set the edge. He just doesn't hold up well at the point of attack. Dumervil may have played 4-3 DE for the most of his career, but he's a lot more athletic and fluid than Upshaw.

[GrimCoconut]

I wouldn't mind more 4-3 looks. I just don't know if we have the linebackers to really make it work. Brown was a big step towards making it work. Upshaw is actually good in coverage and so is Suggs. I sort of like the idea of a formation like this used on occasion: 

 

McPhee | Williams | Ngata | Dumervil

Upshaw | Brown | Suggs

 

You could even bring Elam up and play LB to make it a 4-4, but you'd need more DBs back there, like Huff & perhaps Brown or something. Graham can also play safety, so he could slide up as well to FS with Huff at SS & Elam as a LB. 

 

That's not something you do every down, however.

[The Raven]

I wouldn't mind more 4-3 looks. I just don't know if we have the linebackers to really make it work. Brown was a big step towards making it work. Upshaw is actually good in coverage and so is Suggs. I sort of like the idea of a formation like this used on occasion: 

 

McPhee | Williams | Ngata | Dumervil

Upshaw | Brown | Suggs

 

You could even bring Elam up and play LB to make it a 4-4, but you'd need more DBs back there, like Huff & perhaps Brown or something. Graham can also play safety, so he could slide up as well to FS with Huff at SS & Elam as a LB. 

 

That's not something you do every down, however.

 

I'd use that on the goal-line and in short yardage situations. Not in any other situation.

[admartian]

Eh - last time I mildly suggested this I basically got told to F off! :D

 

But yeah, the addition of Spears and Canty (gnereally not the 3-4 DLinemen style) sort of makes me think this. That and our lack of depth at ILB.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

Eh - last time I mildly suggested this I basically got told to F off! :D

 

But yeah, the addition of Spears and Canty (gnereally not the 3-4 DLinemen style) sort of makes me think this. That and our lack of depth at ILB.

Spears and Canty are scheme diverse. They can play the 5 technique (DE) in a 3-4 or 2 or 1 technique (DT) in a 4-3.  The impression I got from the FO was that they were brought in to play 5 tech. so that Ngata could move inside to NT. 

 

However, if were to pay a 4-3 look here's the line up I could see happening.

 

DE-Suggs

DT-Canty

DT-Ngata

DE-McPhee

 

Sam-C. Upshaw

Mike-J.McClain

Will-A. Brown

 

The more promising option to me is to use a 4 man line in nickel situations, which the ravens already do quite a bit.

 

DE-Suggs

DT-Ngata

DT-McPhee

DE-Dumervil

 

LB-J. Bynes (Jameel could work here too, but Bynes is more athletic and quicker in coverage)

LB-A. Brown

 

Nickel-Corey Graham

[Yatagarasu]

Josh Bynes might be a dark horse for our ILB position, since he is an underrated coverage LB.

 

I know Jameel McClain is like the jack of all trade LB, since he can do a little bit of everything, but he really regressed last year.

 

As for Rolando, he is strictly a 2-down LB, but I don't know how much he can learn to be a complete 3-down LB.

 

 Albert McClellan has versatilty to play the OLB/ILB positions. He could be the next Jameel McClain for us.

 

Arthur Brown is here, and he will play all 4 downs and some more.

[izvoodoo]

Decosta said Arthur Brown will play Will in our D

I may have been confused, but isn't the Will suggs position?  I thought he was going to play the Jack (Bart scotts position).  Or am I confused.