Dan's Best and Worst of the Mock offseason 2013

[-Truth-]

I did miss the Monroe trade. That one needs to make the list as well. Will need to bump one. That was an even greater steal as you state for the younger up and coming player, 31 for a oline man is certainly far from the downside of his career. Albert has yet to probe that kind of production. Also the bengals must not have thought to highly of graham as he didn't even make it to training camp.

As for shorts it was a good move yes but I don't think it would bump any of these off the list. Certainly being made by the same does not preclude it from being included, that comment was made in jest.

 

Agreed about Monroe. Whitworth is seemingly still at the same level, but at his age, there are no guarantees. Two seasons as a top tier pass blocker are enough for Albert to have proven his worth. And while the Bengals traded Graham, they did receive a higher 2nd and a 5th in return. So essentially, they parted with a 4th and Whitworth for a 2nd, 5th, 6th and Streeter. Given the market value of those selections, with players like Antonio Cromartie, Matt Schaub and John Abraham going for two 4ths and 6th, respectively, I don't see how the value he received for in return was pennies on the dollar.

 

I'd argue that it deserves a spot over the Mathias Kiwanuka trade, as he struggled in 2012. I parted with a 5th and a reserve OL for a 25 year old WR who was on pace to amass 1,100+ yards and 8 TDs with Blaine Gabbert and Chad Henne at the helm. I see. My mistake then, as I misunderstood that comment. If not that, then the Patrick Robinson trade certainly deserves consideration. He's a recent 1st round selection with two solid seasons under his belt and one poor one, and he was traded for a mere 7th. 

[Alexir]

Eagles get Barkley in real life for a 4th and 7th. I get Barkley for a 4th and a 5th string WR.....

Don't see your point there also.

 

What about me trading the 3rd overall for Carolina's Greg Hardy, 2nd, 3rd and Geoff Hangartner?

 

What about trading Rolando McClain (who was cut btw) and a 6th for Dunta Robinson and Stephan Nicholas?

 

Trading Brendian Ross for Derek Landri and Trevor scott?

 

Tyrod was gonna compete for starting job. I didn't know everyone was going to let quality QB's slip that far. Matt Barkley is unproven but every rookie QB is. I know that he didn't have a great LT this year (Kalil went to Vikes) and his play wasnt as great. But he was a first round talent in 2012 draft that stayed in school. 

 

I'll take my chances...

[Yatagarasu]

All these trades prove that Truth is a former used car salesman. His negotiating power is at another level and he feasted on naive GMs to create an ultimate team.

[ravensdan]

Updated the top 10 trades list

 

Added the top 10 free agency list

[stm85]

Updated the top 10 trades list

 

Added the top 10 free agency list

 

Good list. 2 Chiefs signings that I think might be worthy of consideration:

 

Kevin Boothe for 2.5 stars: Boothe is one of the better rated guards from last year and a very good run blocker. Considering that some guards went for starting LT money I think 2.5 for Boothe, a well above average player, is a very good deal.

 

Alan Branch for 3.5 stars: Branch is a very athletic and underrated run stuffer. His combines strength, length, size (6'6, 330) and quickness into a very formidable package and is fairly young and improving. He didn't have his best season last year in Seattle but their system is designed for him to eat space and let faster defenders make plays. He projects as a very good fit as a 3-4 NT.

[Geving]

I think I shelled out 12 stars for Grimes, that may deserve a mention of worst FA acquisitions. Lol. He was my number one target on the last day, and felt cornered to use most of my last stars on him with some crazy spending by others. But still a major overpay on my behalf.

 

 

I think Sean Smith and Derek Cox got some ridiculous contracts too.

[ravensdan]

I think I shelled out 12 stars for Grimes, that may deserve a mention of worst FA acquisitions. Lol. He was my number one target on the last day, and felt cornered to use most of my last stars on him with some crazy spending by others. But still a major overpay on my behalf.


I think Sean Smith and Derek Cox got some ridiculous contracts too.

That one was actually on the list but got bumped out for the second smith signing.

[arnie_uk]

Did cinci really eat 5 stars of dead money for Andre smith, why sign him then cut him? Was there a reasoning behind that

[SecretAgentMan]

 

 

WORST

 

 

 

1.New Orleans, Andre Smith, OT, 13 Stars

     An even more insane price tag than the first free agency period... see #2 description.

2 Cincinnati Bengals, Andre Smith, 10 Stars

     Extremely overpriced.  Smith has only ever been a good right tackle.  Certainly not an elite player and has never played on the left.  his work ethic has been in question as well.  This price tag is more than the elite left tackles. 

3Seahawks, Henry melton, 14.5 Stars

     While Melton is certainly a very solid player on the defensive line, 14.5 stars is starting franchise QB money.  On top of that he scored a negatively against the run for 2012.  For this kind of money he better be the best in the game. 

4Seattle Seahawks, Paul Kruger, 10 Stars

     Another reach by the Seahawks.  We all know this is too much to pay for Kruger, who is a solid pass rusher, but has struggled against the run.

5Cincinnati Bengals, Aquib Talib, 12 Stars

     Talib has been suspended and cut by one team, picked up by the patriots and played somewhat well before going down with an injury, but he is certainly not one of the premeir corners in the league like this price tag would suggest. 

6SD Chargers, Mike Wallace,10.5 Stars

     Extremely over priced WR.  his production has been way down for the last year and a half.  His effort is certainly in quesiton.  He only managed to catch 55% of the balls thrown his way last year, and only managed a measly 4.4 yards after the catch.  Certainly prodution not matching reputation. 

7Detroit Lions, Randy Starks, 10 stars

     While starks fared well overall he graded out poorly against the run in 2012 and 10 stars is cornerstone franchise money to pay. Extremely overpaid

8.Ravefan52 ,Derek cox, 14 Stars
hile cox is an young up and comming DB, he has missed time in each of his fist three years and this price tag is Revis money. 

9. Buffalo Bills,Andrew Hawkins, 7Stars

     Baby Hawk is just a third string slot reciever with very few catches to his name.  7 stars is a hefty price tag for his services..

10.Cincinnati Bengals, Dwayne Allen, 13.5 stars

     Allen is a nice TE and all, but come on.

 

 

It was very hard to pick just 10 top free agent aquistions, there were several more solid ones I would have liked to include as well. 

I would add Miles Austin here too.

 

13.5 stars?

 

For a WR who is not nearly as good as Megatron? 

[ravensdan]

I would add Miles Austin here too.

13.5 stars?

For a WR who is not nearly as good as Megatron?

13.5? I thought he went for lik 7 or 8? Maybe I missed a bid

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Lol Talib is certainly a premier CB. I overpaid for Allen and Austin and Smith and Talib though and I don't care one bit. I wanted to use every last bit of my cap on Austin, Allen, and Talib. Smith I was a little over zealous and went a little overboard bidding on him. But to say Talib isn't a premier corner is joke. He shut down our receivers before he got hurt in the playoffs and was a major reason the patriots D wasn't a huge joke this year. Talib certainly has off the field problems and attitude issues but his play his unquestionably in the upper echelon of CBs.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Updated the top 10 trades list

 

Added the top 10 free agency list

 

I agree with both of my FA signings on that list.  

 

Tuck, while his performance has dropped over the last two years, can still be a solid, rotational DE.  In New York he has to start and for me he will be my 4th DE in rotation so that should keep him fresh.

 

I know I overpaid for Hawkins but, I wasn't going to finish this with lots of free cap room.  Once I got outbid for Allen, I had to put my money somewhere, and that was Hawkins and Brandon Lloyd.  They were my top two targets if I couldn't get Allen.  I overpaid for Hawkins but, I wanted to guarantee I got him after losing Allen and I had the cap room so I made the move.  

[ravensdan]

The best and most questionable draft picks is up.

[SecretAgentMan]

The best and most questionable draft picks is up.

I would not say Lattimore is questionable..

 

He was my top talent left...

 

He's got talent to be a top 5 RB. 

 

The questionable one should be BIG JOE! 

[Geving]

Good job. Just to nitpick a little, it's Nick Kasa, not Casa.

[-Truth-]

Could not disagree more with the inclusion of Andre Smith. Smith was one of the very best RTs in football this past season. And with 20 Stars left in cap space and no holes on the roster, I went after one of the best players left on market. There was no point in leaving the cap space untouched.

[-Truth-]

But I definitely appreciate the nod regarding the Draft. Thank you.

[ravensdan]

Could not disagree more with the inclusion of Andre Smith. Smith was one of the very best RTs in football this past season. And with 20 Stars left in cap space and no holes on the roster, I went after one of the best players left on market. There was no point in leaving the cap space untouched.

I didn't take in to account people's cap space. Just looked at the merit of the move combined with the price tag. Similar to the Hawkins pick up. On no way shape or form is Andre worth double digits

[stm85]

You forgot Matt Elam for KC at 28

[GrimCoconut]

Could not disagree more with the inclusion of Andre Smith. Smith was one of the very best RTs in football this past season. And with 20 Stars left in cap space and no holes on the roster, I went after one of the best players left on market. There was no point in leaving the cap space untouched.

While Smith had a good 2012, he has been wildly inconsistent every year before it. Furthermore, while I don't disagree that it was worth it to use up your cap space, it could bite you in the end. What I mean by that is if we do another free agency & players do count count towards the cap, the move would/could be a bit unfortunate. It could prevent you from signing other free agents. 

[-Truth-]

While Smith had a good 2012, he has been wildly inconsistent every year before it. Furthermore, while I don't disagree that it was worth it to use up your cap space, it could bite you in the end. What I mean by that is if we do another free agency & players do count count towards the cap, the move would/could be a bit unfortunate. It could prevent you from signing other free agents. 

 

His performance in 2012 far better than good. Multiple sources label him as a premier OT, and ESPN stated that he, "best graded as the best right tackle in the NFL last season." He was also very solid in 2011, arguably Top 10 at his position. I understand your reasoning, but I don't see it hindering me in the future, as my current roster is without any holes, and almost the entirety of the remaining FA class wouldn't be likely to make my 53 man roster.

[-Truth-]

I didn't take in to account people's cap space. Just looked at the merit of the move combined with the price tag. Similar to the Hawkins pick up. On no way shape or form is Andre worth double digits

 

Oh, he's not. There's no argument there. But among the best remaining players on the market were Smith, Dwayne Allen, Matthew Stafford and Miles Austin, though I feel as if I'm missing somebody. And only one of them would've started.

[stm85]

I completely disagree that Trevardo Williams was a questionable pick. I actually think that might be the biggest steal of all my picks. His position isn't really in question, he is a 3-4 OLB and idk where else he would be a better fit. He got 11.5 sacks last year for UConn while setting the edge well in the running game and playing well in pass coverage as well. He is one of the few guys who had a crazy good combine that backed it up with great production and great tape in college. I needed another pass rusher that could spell Hali and Houston and Williams gives me that, plus great play against the run and in coverage. He would start as a rookie if I didn't have 2 Pro-Bowlers at his spot.

[GrimCoconut]

His performance in 2012 far better than good. Multiple sources label him as a premier OT, and ESPN stated that he, "best graded as the best right tackle in the NFL last season." He was also very solid in 2011, arguably Top 10 at his position. I understand your reasoning, but I don't see it hindering me in the future, as my current roster is without any holes, and almost the entirety of the remaining FA class wouldn't be likely to make my 53 man roster.

Interesting. From what I found, PFF ranked him an astonishing -18.0 grade in 2010 & a significantly better +0.2 grade in 2011. That's clearly not including his break-out 2012 year, but you get the point. 

[ravensdan]

His performance in 2012 far better than good. Multiple sources label him as a premier OT, and ESPN stated that he, "best graded as the best right tackle in the NFL last season." He was also very solid in 2011, arguably Top 10 at his position. I understand your reasoning, but I don't see it hindering me in the future, as my current roster is without any holes, and almost the entirety of the remaining FA class wouldn't be likely to make my 53 man roster.

I would love to revisit this conversation a year from now after smith has a sub par year. I will eat crow if he has an all pro season.

[ravensdan]

[quote name="stm85" post="1460080" timestamp="1367455697"]

I completely disagree that Trevardo Williams was a questionable pick. I actually think that might be the biggest steal of all my picks. His position isn't really in question, he is a 3-4 OLB and idk where else he would be a better fit. He got 11.5 sacks last year for UConn while setting the edge well in the running game and playing well in pass coverage as well. He is one of the few guys who had a crazy good combine that backed it up with great production and great tape in college. I needed another pass rusher that could spell Hali and Houston and Williams gives me that, plus great play against the run and in coverage. He would start as a rookie if I didn't have 2 Pro-Bowlers at his spot.[/quote]
I'm not sure his game will translate. Maybe as a situational pass rusher but what about his coverage abilities? Also who would you replace him with? A few teams had very solid drafts and it was hard to pick.

[-Truth-]

Interesting. From what I found, PFF ranked him an astonishing -18.0 grade in 2010 & a significantly better +0.2 grade in 2011. That's clearly not including his break-out 2012 year, but you get the point. 

 

Did you use the correct website, or were you highlighting the wrong player? His grade in 2010 wasn't -18.0, and his grade in 2011 was +9.0, which was within the Top 10 at his position.

[GrimCoconut]

Did you use the correct website, or were you highlighting the wrong player? His grade in 2010 wasn't -18.0, and his grade in 2011 was +9.0, which was within the Top 10 at his position.

I don't have a subscription, so I went off this: 

 

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/2/8/2785105/pro-football-focus-andre-smith-jerome-simpson-carlos-dunlap-cincinnati-bengals

 

But I don't need a subscription or PFF to know he's been inconsistent since he's entered the league. He had a good year this year, but I don't like one-year wonders. I can tell you think otherwise, so we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree here.

 

The most improved player was right tackle Andre Smith.

2010 grade: -18.0
2011 grade: +0.2

While Smith may never live up to his draft status, he took a giant leap forward this year with his play on the field. The Bengals lowest-rated offensive player in 2010, Smith earned his grade on just 288 snaps-largely the result of giving up a steady supply of pressure. Looking like a different player (in performance terms), Smith only gave up three sacks, though you'd want to see his number of penalties (eight) reduced.

[stm85]

I'm not sure his game will translate. Maybe as a situational pass rusher but what about his coverage abilities? Also who would you replace him with? A few teams had very solid drafts and it was hard to pick.

 

He is actually pretty good in coverage for a 3-4 OLB. I plan on using him as a situational rusher as I already have Houston and Hali, but it was important to me to grab a guy who can play on all 3 downs if someone gets hurt and I think he has that ability. He's about 245 so he's a little undersized but he's a speed rusher anyway so that isn't a huge deal.

 

I think my worst pick was easily Gholston. I didn't want to take him that early but it was a compensatory pick so I couldn't trade down and I couldn't take him with my next pick because I was targeting Zac Dysert. After trading away Allen Bailey i really needed a young 5-tech to groom behind Canty and Richardson and he was the best available, but I definitely reached picking him where I did. He was more of a 4th round talent to me. That is the only pick I made where I didn't feel like I got good value, even though I think it ended up being the right choice under the circumstances.

[ravensdan]

He is actually pretty good in coverage for a 3-4 OLB. I plan on using him as a situational rusher as I already have Houston and Hali, but it was important to me to grab a guy who can play on all 3 downs if someone gets hurt and I think he has that ability. He's about 245 so he's a little undersized but he's a speed rusher anyway so that isn't a huge deal.

I think my worst pick was easily Gholston. I didn't want to take him that early but it was a compensatory pick so I couldn't trade down and I couldn't take him with my next pick because I was targeting Zac Dysert. After trading away Allen Bailey i really needed a young 5-tech to groom behind Canty and Richardson and he was the best available, but I definitely reached picking him where I did. He was more of a 4th round talent to me. That is the only pick I made where I didn't feel like I got good value, even though I think it ended up being the right choice under the circumstances.

I like ghouls tons chances at the next level bit I can see your point in the value there.