Dan's Best and Worst of the Mock offseason 2013

[ravensdan]

These are my best and worst aquisitions in all the different categories for this mock offseason.  please debate and post any suggestions for what you would add and subtract from this list...

 

TRADES

 

BEST

 

1. Denver trades [3rd (72)] to Tampa Bay for [Mark Barron]

 

     Denver gets the biggest steal of the offseason, aquireing a first round 2012 draft pick with one solid year under his belt for only a third round pick. 

  

2. New Orleans trades [6th (187), Justin Durant, Chris Ivory, and Joe Morgan] to Dallas for [5th (155) and Dez Bryant

     Very close behind Denver's trade is the New orleans Saints using a jedi mind trick on Dallas and brining in Dez Bryant in this trade while not giving up much at all in return. 

 

3. Cincinnati trades [Andrew Whitworth and 4th (126)] to Baltimore for [2nd (64), 6th (203), Corey Graham, and Tommy Streeter

     Clearly an absolute steal for the SuperBowl champions for pennies on the dollar in return. Verry Ozzie like move gaining a real franchise left tackle.

 

4. Kansas City trades [3rd (63) and Jalil Brown] to Jacksonville for [Eugene Monroe]

     Kansas City pulls off a real coup here picking up a young up and comming dominant tackle from the floundering jaguars. 

5. Buffalo trades [2nd (42)] to Cincinnati for [Andy Dalton]

     Bufalo was in dire straits at the QB position and they were able to aquire Dalton for only a second round pick. 

    

6. Miami trades [2nd (43) and 3rd (77)] to San Diego for [Eric Weddle]

     Clearly a fantastic move for Miami picking up one of the absolute top Safeties in the league and not sacrificing a first round pick.

 

7. Buffalo trades [1st (8), 3rd (87), and Brandon Pettigrew] to St. Louis for [1st (16), 4th (115), and Cortland Finnegan

     Buffalo makes a shrewd move for the "little ball of hate".  Very tough physical cornerback.  This trade is also good for St. Louis receiving one of the top 5-10 recieving tight ends in the league.  Some jockeying for draft position from both sides, but not a huge impact either way, balanced and good trade. 

   

8. Baltimore trades [4th (126)] to Carolina for [Jon Beason]

     Great trade for Baltimore picking up a veteran line backer who will become a natural leader in the center of the defense right away.  The 4th round pick is more than good value for the Ravens

.

9. New Orleans trades [7th (226), Chris Chamberlain, and Martez Wilson] to Cincinnati for [Carlos Dunlap]

     New Orleans is able to bring in one of the top young pass rushing defensive ends in while giving up little in return relatively.  Dunlap is a real impact player. 

 

10. New Orleans trades [Akiem Hicks, Nick Toon, and Bryce Harris] to Detroit for [Nick Fairley]

     Saints able to use their magic here again in gaining another young impact player to their defense. 

 

WORST

 

     

1. Chiefs trade [1st (1), Cory Redding, and Kevin Boss] to New Orleans for [1st (15), 3rd (77), 4th (129), Curtis Lofton, and Lance Moore]

     Clearly an insane amount to give up for the Saints just to move into the number one slot.  Yes Redding is a nice player although long in the tooth and Boss is a serviceable backup, but those guys are really throwaways for the cheifs.  Shortly after this move the original Saints GM was never heard from again.  (note:  the original trade involving Jimmy Graham was an even worse travesty)

 

2. Dallas trades [2nd (49)] to San Francisco for [Alex Smith]

     This trade makes little sense for the Cowboys who already had a much better QB in Tony Romo.  Dallas was not in desperate need for a QB like the Cheifs were in the real world. 

 

3. NYJ trades [Tim Tebow] to Jacksonville for [4th Round & 7th Round Picks]

     The Tebow era begins in jacksonville, but this is clearly way to much to give up for him. 

 

4. Detroit trades [Ndamukong Suh] to Denver for [Knowshon Moreno, DJ Williams, and 3rd (92)]

     Suh has been one of the most dominating players in the league up to this point.  He has had quite a few character concerns but just giving him away for a couple of underacheiving backups and only a third round pick is no where near value for this player.  Loss for Detroit here. 

5. New Orleans trades [Jonathan Vilma] to Tampa Bay for [Mike Williams]

     Tampa gives up a young playmaking WR just comming in to his prime yeas for an aging vet who's on the field play has not lived up to his name recognition

6. Indianapolis trades [Colby Fleener and Cory Redding] to Seattle for [Zach Miller and 4th (125)]

    The first of many trades involving Redding Indianapolis gives up one of their most solid defenders and a real upcomming TE for a very below average TE and only a 4th round choice. 7. New Orleans trades [Mark Ingram] to Atlanta for [4th and 6th]

     The original Saints owner is robbed of a young first round running back just comming in to his prime years. 

 

7. Oakland trades [4th (102)] to Baltimore for [Tyrod Taylor]

     Not a great value for the Raiders whatsoever.  Tyrod has been a career backup to this point and the market this offseason was not in QB's favor.  For example Matt Schaube an experienced QB who has started in the playoffs also went for a 4th round choice. 

8. Carolina trades [Matt Barkley] to Oakland for [Tyrod Taylor and Juron Criner]
     After giving up the 4th round pick to aquire Taylor, oakland is quick to turn around and give him up for an even more unproven QB in matt barkley, abandoning his original plan and wasting the original 4th round pick. 

 

9. Tennessee trades7th round pick #213th overallto Jacksonville for(7th round pick #221st overall
G John Moffitt)

     This began as the trade for absolutely nothing and Moffitt was eventually added as a throwaway. 

10.     Carolina trades [Chris Gamble] to Kansas City for [Jon Baldwin, Tony Moeaki, and 5th (138)]

This one may carry some controversy as to Gamble's availablitly.  But the fact is he retired leaving Kansas City in a lurch after giving up a solid package for his services. 

     
FREE AGENCY

 

BEST

 

1. Cleveland Browns, Tony Romo 14 Stars

     The only real franchise QB to become available in free agency.  14 Stars is a fair price for a franchise QB.  The fact that he was available is amazing.  he istantly gives credibility to the long suffering Browns

2. Atlanta FalconsLaRon Landry4 stars

     Very nice signing at a very nice price, should be an impact player for Atlanta.

3.Oakland RaidersCary Williams3 stars

     While he came under alot of scrutiny here, Williams has played very well for the last 2 seasons, he certainly excells best in press coverage, and 3 Stars is a nice price for him.

4.New York Jets, Victor butler, 2 Stars

     nice price for a young up and comming pass rush specialist. 

5.Oakland Raiders, Fred Davis, 5 Stars

     Before having his season pre maturely cut short he was looking like one of the best up and coming pass catching TE's in the league, 5 stars is bargain basement for his future potential.

6.Green Bay Packers, Reggie Bush, 4 Stars

     Fantastic fit and price for the Packers.  A very smart move to pick up the best pass catching RB in the NFL in a pass first offense his talents should be fully realized. 

7.New Orleans,Gosder Cherilus, 6 Stars
     One of the top rated tackles in the league goes to the Saints for 6 stars good price, good player. 

8.Cincinnati Bengals,Brandon Albert, 9 Stars

     Bengals make a good free agent aquisition of an up and comming top tackle in the league, the price was certainly fair. 

9.Buffalo Bills, Justin Tuck, 2 Stars

     Very nice underrated signing, should be a very solid player for the Bills.

10.Pittsburgh Steelers, Willie Colon, 1 Star

     A bargain basement price for a very underrated offensive lineman.  Rates well as both a gaurd and a tackle. 

 

 

WORST

 

 

 

1.New Orleans, Andre Smith, OT, 13 Stars

     An even more insane price tag than the first free agency period... see #2 description.

2 Cincinnati Bengals, Andre Smith, 10 Stars

     Extremely overpriced.  Smith has only ever been a good right tackle.  Certainly not an elite player and has never played on the left.  his work ethic has been in question as well.  This price tag is more than the elite left tackles. 

3Seahawks, Henry melton, 14.5 Stars

     While Melton is certainly a very solid player on the defensive line, 14.5 stars is starting franchise QB money.  On top of that he scored a negatively against the run for 2012.  For this kind of money he better be the best in the game. 

4Seattle Seahawks, Paul Kruger, 10 Stars

     Another reach by the Seahawks.  We all know this is too much to pay for Kruger, who is a solid pass rusher, but has struggled against the run.

5Cincinnati Bengals, Aquib Talib, 12 Stars

     Talib has been suspended and cut by one team, picked up by the patriots and played somewhat well before going down with an injury, but he is certainly not one of the premeir corners in the league like this price tag would suggest. 

6SD Chargers, Mike Wallace,10.5 Stars

     Extremely over priced WR.  his production has been way down for the last year and a half.  His effort is certainly in quesiton.  He only managed to catch 55% of the balls thrown his way last year, and only managed a measly 4.4 yards after the catch.  Certainly prodution not matching reputation. 

7Detroit Lions, Randy Starks, 10 stars

     While starks fared well overall he graded out poorly against the run in 2012 and 10 stars is cornerstone franchise money to pay. Extremely overpaid

8.Ravefan52 ,Derek cox, 14 Stars
hile cox is an young up and comming DB, he has missed time in each of his fist three years and this price tag is Revis money. 

9. Buffalo Bills,Andrew Hawkins, 7Stars

     Baby Hawk is just a third string slot reciever with very few catches to his name.  7 stars is a hefty price tag for his services..

10.Cincinnati Bengals, Dwayne Allen, 13.5 stars

     Allen is a nice TE and all, but come on.

 

 

It was very hard to pick just 10 top free agent aquistions, there were several more solid ones I would have liked to include as well. 

 

THE DRAFT

Instead of just doing a top 10 I will break down all 32 teams by  best and questionable picks as it is hard to say there is a bad pick right now.

 

1. New Orleans Saints - Jarvis Jones (1) , Duke Williams (108) , Montee Ball (151) , Johnny Adams (160)

     BEST - Duke Williams - Fantastic looking safety who looks like he can cover not afraid to hit in the middle rounds, great value.   QUESTIONABLE - Hard to pick one as this team made their few signings count.  Jarvis Jones just do to the possible injury going one overall. 

2. Miami Dolphins - Eric Fisher (2) , Jonathan Franklin (89) , Sean Porter (91), Travis Kelche (92), Micheal Buchanon (119), Jordan Hill (139), Tavarres King (147), Ace Sanders (164), Steve Williams(168), Hugh Thornton (186), Chris Gragg (197) , Nickel Roby (231), Zac Stacy(247)

BEST - Eric Fisher - Hard to argue he will be an impact player and able to start at left tackle from day one.  Miami has fantastic depth with their many solid picks in this draft. QUESTIONABLE - Jordan Hill - Has questionable size for his positon and could have been overdrafted here. 

3. Carolina Panthers - Luke Joeckel(3) , Lane Johnson (14) , Markus Wheaton (50), Jessee Williams (52), JJ Wilcox (115), BW Webb (155), Leveon Bell(156), Matt Barkley (158) , Ty Powell (184), brandon Magee (214), John Boyett (229), Kyle Juszczyk(230),

BEST - Kyle Juszczyk, now that we are all more familiar with his skills this was a steal choice in the late 7th round.  QUESTIONABLE - Lane Johnson, certainly a questionable decision right after taking Joeckel to come back with another LT in the first round, especially for a team with so many holes.

4. Philadelphia Eagles - Dee Milliner(4), Geno Smith(30), Jordan Reed(69), Shamarko Thomas(103), Andre Ellington(121), Marquise Goodwin(123), Devonte Holloman(128), Robert Lester (146), Michael Williams (190), Walter Stewart(212), Zeke Motta (237)

BEST - Andre Ellington, without spending a high round pick Philly gets the perfect back for the uptempo running game they want to run.  QUESTIONABALE - Dee Milliner - First of all he is a corner back whos skills and injury status are both in question, he is not a dynamic returner or a true one on one shut down corner.  Even more questionaable with an ahletic lineman perfect for Philly's system Lane Johnson is still on the board.

5. Cincinnati Bengals - Barkevious Mingo (5), Terron Armstead (37), Larry Warford(62), Devin Taylor (67), Aaron Mellete(79), Keith Pough (141), Earl Wolff (150), TJ Barnes (165), Dwayne Gratz(191), Mike Hermann(238), Reggie Dunn(248)

BEST - Barkevious Mingo- should be a real playmaker and gamechanger off the edge right off the bat.  Aaron Mellette - a huge reach for a player who looked lost against UNC who was his closest competition to what he will be facing in the NFL, will take several years to develop and get on the field most likely, quite a reach in round 3. 

6. Cleveland Browns - Shariff Floyd (6), Quinton Patton(54), Jamar Taylor(55), Matt Scott(142), Lerentre Mccray(175)

BEST - Jamar Taylor - should be a very solid corner for the Browns and pick 55 is good enough value for him.  QUESTIONABLE - Matt Scott - certainly the Browns had many holes to fill and this is a bit high for Scott, who is far from a sure fire NFL starter.

7. Arizona Cardinals - Dion Jordan (7), Johnathan Banks (38), Corey Lemonier (94), EJ Manuel(113), Joseph Randle (144), Jordan Mills (179), Greg Reid (218), Knile Davis (224),

BEST - EJ Manuel, In my opinion he is the QB in this draft with the best possibility to start.  He has a good head on his shoulders and obviously impressed a team enough to take him early in the first round so Mid fourth is insane value.  QUESTIONABLE - Johnathan Banks - May not have the speed or agility neccessary to be a true impact player on the outside, thus probably too high of a pick for him.  This is a very solid draft overall.

8. Tennessee Titans - Arthur Brown(8), Keenan Allen(17), Johnathan Cyprien(34), Brandon Jenkins (71), Leon McFadden(77), Travis Frederick(99), Aaron Dobson(100), Matt Summers-Gavin(202), Miguel Maysonet (213), Jon Major (245)

BEST - Travis Frederick - should be a high impact player at one of the most important but underrated positions.  QUESTIONABLE - Aaron Dobson - kind of nit-picking as this is one of my favorite drafts of all teams, top of the fourth is probably too early for Dobson here, especially with Allen already drafted, although the Patriots did grab him up even early irl I think he is a bit of a project.

9. NY Jets - Ezekial Ansah (9), DaRick Rodgers(40), Mike Glennon(87), Quanterus Smith(109), DJ Hayden(145), Christine Michael(152), Jon Bostic(154), Kayvon Webster(180), Steve Beauharnais(208), Corey Fuller(222),

BEST - DJ Hayden  easily the best pick of the entire mock, this is a first round talent in the 5th that many teams wanted to target right after the Jets.  QUESTIONABLE - DaRick Rodgers - easily the biggest reach of the draft, although the Jets are desperate for offensive playmakers, Rodgers has skill level and extreme character concerns, enough so that he went undrafted.  Although to be fair, it is nearly impossible for us to judge character issues.

10. ST Louis Rams - Chance Warmack (10), Xavier Rhodes(22), Eric Reid(44), Terrance Williams (51), Sio Moore(80), Michael Mauti(192)

BEST - Sio Moore - should be an impact player in the middle of this defense and this is good value for him as well.  QUESTIONABLE - Terrance Williams - I'm not convinced he will be an impact player of any sort and the Rams couldn't afford a miss with their shortage of picks this year.

11. San Diego Chargers - Kenny Vaccaro (11), DJ Fluker (35), Eddie Lacy (43), Justin Pugh(78), Kevin Reddick(112), Nico Johnson(181), AJ Francis(221),

BEST - Kenny Vaccaro - Nice pick realing in the top safety in the draft at pick #11.  Eddie Lacy - Probably too early to take a running back when the Chargers had so many holes to fill.  An impact runner could have been aquired later in the draft.

12. Kansas City Chiefs - Sheldon Richardson(12), ardo Williams(83), William gholtson(98), Zac Dysert(148) Rod Sweeting(204), Marcus Davis(207), Matt Elam(28)

BEST - Sheldon Richardson - KC finds the arguably the best Dtackle in this draft at pick 12.  QUESTIONABLE - Trevardo Williams - certainly a bit early to take a player who's impact is in question along with his best postion.  Can he fit at OLB for the Chiefs, that is unproven.  More impact guys would have been on the board at this point. 

13. NY Giants - Star Loutuleilei(13), Vance McDonald(70)

BEST - Star Loutulelei - Certainly a steal for the Giants at number 13.  QUESTIONABLE - this GM not even making his pick for his 7th round comp selection and totally throwing in the towel for the G-men.

14. Jacksonville Jaguars - Desmond Trufant(15), David Amerson(56), Barrett Jones(65), Chris Faulk(66), Gerald Hodges(153), Dion Sims(166), Akeem Spence(171), Calib Sturgis(217),

BESt - Akeem Spence - This draft is packed with some nice impact players, however finding this D-tackle with some pass rush potential in the 6th is a real steal.  QUESTIONABLE - Chris Faulk - The Jags would have been wise to try to trade back from here, The top of the third is quite early for the injured Faulk, and the Jags had no pick in the 4th.

15. Buffalo Bills - Bjoern Werner (16), Khaseem Green(42), Marquess Wilson(125), Mike Gillislee(172), JC Tretter(225)

BEST - Mike Gillislee - In my opinion he will be the most successful back in this class, he has Ray Rice potential and can do everything well.  QUESTIONABLE - Marquess Wilson - He certainly has physical talents, but it remains to be seen if he can become more consistent on the field as well as off the field.

16. Dallas Cowboys - Johnathan Cooper (18), Oday Aboushi(82), Ryan Swope(95), Malaciah Goodman(105) Jelani Jenkins(161), Denard Robinson(166), Landry Jones(188), Joe Kruger(199), Chris Jones(210)

BEST - Malaciah Goodman - Could be a really nice player with some pass rush ability on the D line.  QUESTIONABLE - Ryan Swope - Very limited reciever, 3rd round is a serious reach for him. 

17. Seattle Seahawks - Cordarelle Patterson(19), Menelik Watson(58), Robert Alford(74), Gavin Escobar(107), Josh Boyd(182), Will Davis(187) Brandon Hepburn(195), Luke Marquort(220), Travis Long(239), Jakar Hamilton(240)

BEST - Will Davis - A real steal this late in the draft, he is an under the radar player who can have a big impact on this already stacked physical secondary.  QUESTIONABLE - Cordarelle Patterson - weather he is able to make any impact at all at the next level is yet to be seen.  limited production at the college level with theoreticaly alot of offensive playmakers around him and not a good route runner. 

18. Chicago Bears - Tavon Austin(20), Sylvester Williams(48), David Bakhtiari(138), Nick Casa(149),

BEST - Sly Williams, in my opinion he is the best Dtackle in this draft and it's not close.  He should make a huge impact at the next level, and melton will be easily a distant memory.  QUESTIONABLE - Nick Casa - possibly too early for him, would have liked to see the Bears take a player with bigger impact with their limited picks. 

19. Pittsburgh Steelers - Damontre Moore(21), Deandre Hopkins(124), Tony Jefferson(116), Cornelius Washington(117), Justice Cunningham(175), Jawan Jamison(176) Sean Renfree(200), Ricky Wagner(206), Earl Watford(223), Michael Clay(235)

BEST - Ricky Wagner - Steelers were able to grab him a full round after the Ravens, he has potential to be a left tackle in the future, a real steal in the 6th round.  QUESTIONABLE - Tony Jefferson - while minimal information  came out ahead of time, there must be some character concern with him that prevented NFL teams from drafting him, his talent is still clearly there.

20. Minnesota Vikings - Cornelius Carridine(23), Jordan Poyer(81), Chris Harper(106), Kiko Alonso(122), Blidi Wreh Wilson(143), Mark Harrison(209), Ray Graham(211

BEST - Kiko Alonso - I believe he will have a huge impact at the next level, his speed and instincts are there, his fundamentals can be improved.  QUESTIONABLE - Cornelius Carradine - his recovery from injury is certainly still in question, may not have the desired impact for the 23rd pick.

21. Atlanta Falcons - Manti TeO(25), Jamie Collins(64), Cobi Hamilton(120), Montori Hughes(135)Sanders Commings(183), Philip Lutzenkirchen(219), Quinton Dial(241), Cooper Taylor(242), Zach Anderson(246)

BEST - Jamie Collins - Fast smart player, nice value end of the second.  QUESTIONABLE - manti TeO, his questions have been well documented. 

22. Green Bay - Datone Jones(26), Kevin Minter(33), Alex Okefor(45), Sam Montgomery(57), Brandon Williams(86), David Quessenberry(124), Stephon Taylor(162), Tharold Simon(169), Kenjon Barner(192)

BEST - Brandon Williams, Similar positioning to the Ravens pick in the real draft, you could certainly argue for several of Green Bays picks here, this is one of the most fantastic drafts of any team.  QUESTIONABLE- Sam Montgomery - His work ethic and individual skill level is somewhat in question.

23. Houston Texans - Tyler Eifert (27), John Jenkins(59), Ryan Logan(97), Ryan Nassib(101), Xavier Nixon(163), Jeff Locke(196), Ray Ray Armstrong(201), Dalton Freeman(232),

BEST - Tyler Eifert - Should be an impact tight end, probably best player available at 27.  QUESTIONABLE - Not very impressed with this draft, several players reached on... John Jenkins - Not impressed with him in the least.

24. New England Patriots - Robert Woods(29), Darius Slay(61), Phillip Thomas(93), Brian Shwenke(104), Josh Johnson(206), Ryan Griffin(234)

BEST - Phillip Thomas - Fantastic safety, should make an impact right away in the aweful Patriots secondary.  QUESTIONABLE - Robert Woods - while he should be one of the better wide outs in this draft, 29 is very early for his services.

25. San Francisco 49ers - Alec Ogletree (31), Justin Hunter(32), DJ Swearinger(63), Bennie Logan(76), tyrann Mathieu(88), Reid Fragel(133), Incompete

BEST - Bennie Logan - Logan is a nice looking DT from LSU who could be a nice surprise.  QUESTIONABLE - This whole draft is full of mall-contents and players prone to penalties.  Then the GM decided to save some pennies down the road and pack in his draft early.

26. Denver Broncos - Kawann Short(36), John Simon(60), Brian Winters(127) Brennan Williams(129) Conner Vernon(177), David Bass(228), Rontez Miles(233)

BEST - Easily John Simon, high motor, high character tough pass rusher.  QUESTIONABLE - Kawann Short - While this draft on the whole is quite solid, this is probably a bit early for Short, although he should be a solid player.

27. Washington Redskins - Zach Ertz(41), Baccari Rambo(84), Tyler Wilson(85), Terry Hawthorne(118), Alvin Baily(131), Shawn Williams(157), Zach Rogers(185), Jayson Dimanche(227)

BEST - Terry hawthorne - Very physical press man corner should be a good player.  QUESTIONABLE - Baccari Rambo - could easily be a product of all the stars surrounding him more than his own abilities.

28. Tampa Bay -Reid(44), Zavier Gooden(72), Dallas Thomas(75), Kenny Stills(114), Lawrence Okoye(198),

BEST - Kenny Stills - I don't know how he has flown under the radar, amazing value in round 4.  QUESTIONABLE - Eric Reid - Extremely questionable trading away last years number one pick Mark Barron and trading him in for a lesser mondel in Reid here... maybe he can prove me wrong with an all pro campaign.

29. Detroit Lions - Stedman Bailey(47), Margus Hunt(53), Kyle Long(73), Tyler Bray(90), Marcus Latimore(134), Joseph Fauria(159), Jonathan Stewart(243)

BEST - Stedman Bailey - Should be a fantastic slot reciever.  QUESTIONABLE - Marcus Latimore - 2 devastating knee injuries in 2 years.

30. Baltimore Ravens - Johnathan Hankins(49), TJ McDonald(96), Chase Thomas(102), Lavar edwards(109), Micah Hyde(132), Josh Evans(167), Jake Knott(170), Khaled Holmes(203), Nik Embernate(236), Levine Toilolo(244)

BEST - Josh Evans - Technically sound, kept Elam clean at Florida.  TJ McDonald - Nothing special about him whatsoever, consistently got burned at USC

31. Oakland Raiders - Giovani Bernard(68), Ryan Otten(189), Garrett Gilkey(205)

BEST - Tough team to grade, with very few picks and very little impact here... Giovanni Bernard - may be the best all around back in this years draft in some opionion.  Ryan Otten - Fine player, but the Raiders needed more impacat.

32. Indianapolis Colts - Kwame Geathers(110), Dustin Hopkins(126), Vince Williams(193), Jeff Bacca(249)

BEST - Vince Williams - could be a high impact line backer picked up very late.  QUESTIONABLE - Dustin Hopkins - A kicker?

[stm85]

I don't understand the thing with retired players. They count. They are included if they didn't retire before the mock started. There isn't a debate about this, it's the rule. I feel as though I handily won the Gamble trade, but to each his own.

 

I don't agree with all of these. I can really only speak for my team, but why is Andy Dalton for a 2nd so high when I got Eugene Monroe for a 3rd and Matt Schaub (a better QB than Dalton) for a 4th? Not saying the Schaub trade is a top 10 move, just that there were plenty of moves better than Dalton.

 

Despite my disagreements, I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for putting it together.

[ravensdan]

[quote name="stm85" post="1457249" timestamp="1367219726"]

I don't understand the thing with retired players. They count. They are included if they didn't retire before the mock started. There isn't a debate about this, it's the rule. I feel as though I handily won the Gamble trade, but to each his own.

I don't agree with all of these. I can really only speak for my team, but why is Andy Dalton for a 2nd so high when I got Eugene Monroe for a 3rd and Matt Schaub (a better QB than Dalton) for a 4th? Not saying the Schaub trade is a top 10 move, just that there were plenty of moves better than Dalton.

Despite my disagreements, I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for putting it together.[/quote]

That's a good observation either of those trades could be included. I think Dalton's youth trumps Schaubs experience in this case. The Monroe trade should probably have a spot. Maybe with more discussions one of these could be bumped.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

I wouldn't say the Whitworth deal was that big of a steal. I got a 2nd round pick which I used to move into the top 5 in the draft as well as snagging a solid starting CB and a WR with huge potential. Plus Whitworth has some knee issues and is getting up there in age. Don't get me wrong he's a great LT but I dont think I traded him for "pennies on the dollar".

[-Truth-]

I wouldn't say the Whitworth deal was that big of a steal. I got a 2nd round pick which I used to move into the top 5 in the draft as well as snagging a solid starting CB and a WR with huge potential. Plus Whitworth has some knee issues and is getting up there in age. Don't get me wrong he's a great LT but I dont think I traded him for "pennies on the dollar".

 

This is fair point, in my opinion. The Ravens parting with Graham shouldn't be understated. A 2nd round selection in a class this deep is of a ton of value, and considering that the Bengals then went back to the FA and signed a younger, stellar pass blocking LT without giving up draft picks, in the grand scheme of things, it could be argued that they actually got the better of that deal. Also, to comment on another trade, Barron's first year wasn't a solid one. He was very poor in coverage.

[-Truth-]

This is a nice wrinkle by the way. Well done. I'm not sure if I'm being biased, but perhaps the trade for Cecil Shorts III could be considered?

[ravensdan]

This is fair point, in my opinion. The Ravens parting with Graham shouldn't be understated. A 2nd round selection in a class this deep is of a ton of value, and considering that the Bengals then went back to the FA and signed a younger, stellar pass blocking LT without giving up draft picks, in the grand scheme of things, it could be argued that they actually got the better of that deal. Also, to comment on another trade, Barron's first year wasn't a solid one. He was very poor in coverage.

Whit worth is a proven top 5 lt in this league. Trading him for even a first would be a stretch because a player of that impact could not be drafted. Albert us a good player but not the level of whitworth.

As far as the shorts trade I had that one at first but it seemed like the saints are well represented on this list as it is.

[-Truth-]

Whit worth is a proven top 5 lt in this league. Trading him for even a first would be a stretch because a player of that impact could not be drafted. Albert us a good player but not the level of whitworth.

As far as the shorts trade I had that one at first but it seemed like the saints are well represented on this list as it is.

 

He's arguably a Top 5 LT, but trading a 1st round selection for 31 year old player coming off of a knee surgery would be a move beyond questionable. Personally, I'd find such a move to be laughable, especially with a much younger, terrific LT Eugene Monroe being traded for practically a mere 3rd, which somehow isn't even mentioned. And I completely disagree with your reasoning, as a 1st rounder could easily have the same impact down the road. Albert's been an elite pass blocker for the last few years. We're talking about a player who's surrendered an average of just 3 sacks and 13 pressures since 2011, and graded out within the Top 5 in this facet. He may not be at the exact same level, but the drop off is very minimal.

 

It's not about who's represented and who's not. It's about what actually happened. It's a rankings list. Leaving something off simply because a team has too many mentions doesn't adhere to the principals behind a true ranking system.

[ravensdan]

He's arguably a Top 5 LT, but trading a 1st round selection for 31 year old player coming off of a knee surgery would be a move beyond questionable. Personally, I'd find such a move to be laughable, especially with a much younger, terrific LT Eugene Monroe being traded for practically a mere 3rd, which somehow isn't even mentioned. And I completely disagree with your reasoning, as a 1st rounder could easily have the same impact down the road. Albert's been an elite pass blocker for the last few years. We're talking about a player who's surrendered an average of just 3 sacks and 13 pressures since 2011, and graded out within the Top 5 in this facet. He may not be at the exact same level, but the drop off is very minimal.

It's not about who's represented and who's not. It's about what actually happened. It's a rankings list. Leaving something off simply because a team has too many mentions doesn't adhere to the principals behind a true ranking system.

I did miss the Monroe trade. That one needs to make the list as well. Will need to bump one. That was an even greater steal as you state for the younger up and coming player, 31 for a oline man is certainly far from the downside of his career. Albert has yet to probe that kind of production. Also the bengals must not have thought to highly of graham as he didn't even make it to training camp.

As for shorts it was a good move yes but I don't think it would bump any of these off the list. Certainly being made by the same does not preclude it from being included, that comment was made in jest.

[GrimCoconut]

Whit worth is a proven top 5 lt in this league. Trading him for even a first would be a stretch because a player of that impact could not be drafted. Albert us a good player but not the level of whitworth.

As far as the shorts trade I had that one at first but it seemed like the saints are well represented on this list as it is.

I'll bite.

 

Staley, Clady, Monroe, Thomas, Brown, Beatty, Williams, Veldheer, Long, Okung, Peters, Ferguson, Albert, Roos. I'd say those are probably some of the very best LTs in the league--at least the top to the middle, anyway. How would you rank Whitworth in that group? He doesn't crack my top-5, that's for sure. He's a good LT, but he isn't the best LT in the league. He does a really good job, but he's not the same kind of run blocker as he is a pass protector. Now, I don't have PFF, so I'm going by what I remember--no facts. I don't remember the Bengals running well to the left. Granted, most teams run best to the right side, but I don't remember Whitworth getting to the second level when I watched him play LT. Just my observation. 

 

Staley, Clady, Monroe, Thomas, Brown, Veldheer, Okung, Long, Ferguson & even Roos I would rank above Whitowrth. Maybe even Beatty. 

[gabefergy]

I'll bite.

Staley, Clady, Monroe, Thomas, Brown, Beatty, Williams, Veldheer, Long, Okung, Peters, Ferguson, Albert, Roos. I'd say those are probably some of the very best LTs in the league--at least the top to the middle, anyway. How would you rank Whitworth in that group? He doesn't crack my top-5, that's for sure. He's a good LT, but he isn't the best LT in the league. He does a really good job, but he's not the same kind of run blocker as he is a pass protector. Now, I don't have PFF, so I'm going by what I remember--no facts. I don't remember the Bengals running well to the left. Granted, most teams run best to the right side, but I don't remember Whitworth getting to the second level when I watched him play LT. Just my observation.

Staley, Clady, Monroe, Thomas, Brown, Veldheer, Okung, Long, Ferguson & even Roos I would rank above Whitowrth. Maybe even Beatty.

You listed a bunch of guys who have had one good year. Whitworth is a proven commodity who has been one of the best LTs for years. Granted he is getting older and his pass blocking is far superior to his run blocking, but that is the priority for any LT. I would say most of those LTs have more upside, but only a few are significantly better. Clady, Thomas, and Brown for sure after that you can poke holes in any of them.

[stm85]

You listed a bunch of guys who have had one good year. Whitworth is a proven commodity who has been one of the best LTs for years. Granted he is getting older and his pass blocking is far superior to his run blocking, but that is the priority for any LT. I would say most of those LTs have more upside, but only a few are significantly better. Clady, Thomas, and Brown for sure after that you can poke holes in any of them.

 

Monroe, Ferguson, Staley, and Roos are all very proven commodities. Williams and Okung are less proven but both are top 10 picks who are playing at an elite level after early struggles adjusting to the pro game/injuries. My rankings in the order of who I'd want on my team, taking into account age and upside since the topic is trade value, are:

 

1. Brown

2. Clady

3. Thomas

4. Monroe

5. Staley

6. Okung

7. Roos

8. Williams

9. Whitworth

10a. Ferguson

10b. Kalil

[gabefergy]

Monroe, Ferguson, Staley, and Roos are all very proven commodities. Williams and Okung are less proven but both are top 10 picks who are playing at an elite level after early struggles adjusting to the pro game/injuries. My rankings in the order of who I'd want on my team, taking into account age and upside since the topic is trade value, are:

 

1. Brown

2. Clady

3. Thomas

4. Monroe

5. Staley

6. Okung

7. Roos

8. Williams

9. Whitworth

10a. Ferguson

10b. Kalil

I still think Whitworth is a top 5 LT due to his pass-blocking. He is an absolute beast, and has been for years. He isnt a great run-blocker anymore, but he isnt terrible either. In today's NFL, I would take the LT who I can trust will keep my QB upright.

 

Most LT are not elite Run-blockers anyways. Staley and Brown are kind of the exception, but Staley isnt nearly the pass-blocker that Whitworth is either.

[ravensdan]

Another point about this trade is it weakens your division rival at one of the most vital positions on the field. Graham is a loss but he is the third corner.

[Sizzlebshu]

These are my best and worst aquisitions in all the different categories for this mock offseason.  please debate and post any suggestions for what you would add and subtract from this list...

 

TRADES

 

BEST

 

1. Denver trades [3rd (72)] to Tampa Bay for [Mark Barron]

     Denver gets the biggest steal of the offseason, aquireing a first round 2012 draft pick with one solid year under his belt for only a third round pick. 

  

2. New Orleans trades [6th (187), Justin Durant, Chris Ivory, and Joe Morgan] to Dallas for [5th (155) and Dez Bryant

     Very close behind Denver's trade is the New orleans Saints using a jedi mind trick on Dallas and brining in Dez Bryant in this trade while not giving up much at all in return. 

 

3. Cincinnati trades [Andrew Whitworth and 4th (126)] to Baltimore for [2nd (64), 6th (203), Corey Graham, and Tommy Streeter

     Clearly an absolute steal for the SuperBowl champions for pennies on the dollar in return. Verry Ozzie like move gaining a real franchise left tackle.

 

4. Buffalo trades [2nd (42)] to Cincinnati for [Andy Dalton]

     Bufalo was in dire straits at the QB position and they were able to aquire Dalton for only a second round pick. 

    

5. Miami trades [2nd (43) and 3rd (77)] to San Diego for [Eric Weddle]

     Clearly a fantastic move for Miami picking up one of the absolute top Safeties in the league and not sacrificing a first round pick.

 

6. Buffalo trades [1st (8), 3rd (87), and Brandon Pettigrew] to St. Louis for [1st (16), 4th (115), and Cortland Finnegan

     Buffalo makes a shrewd move for the "little ball of hate".  Very tough physical cornerback.  This trade is also good for St. Louis receiving one of the top 5-10 recieving tight ends in the league.  Some jockeying for draft position from both sides, but not a huge impact either way, balanced and good trade. 

   

7. Baltimore trades [4th (126)] to Carolina for [Jon Beason]

     Great trade for Baltimore picking up a veteran line backer who will become a natural leader in the center of the defense right away.  The 4th round pick is more than good value for the Ravens

.

8. New Orleans trades [7th (226), Chris Chamberlain, and Martez Wilson] to Cincinnati for [Carlos Dunlap]

     New Orleans is able to bring in one of the top young pass rushing defensive ends in while giving up little in return relatively.  Dunlap is a real impact player. 

 

9. New Orleans trades [Akiem Hicks, Nick Toon, and Bryce Harris] to Detroit for [Nick Fairley]

     Saints able to use their magic here again in gaining another young impact player to their defense. 

 

10. Philadelphia trades [Nate Allen, Felix Jones, and Ronnie Cameron] to NYG for [Mathius Kiwanuka and 6th (201)]

     Philadelphia is able to pull off a solid trade here for an impact defender and a draft choice while only giving up several under performing players in the process. 

 

 

WORST

 

 

      

 

     

1. Chiefs trade [1st (1), Cory Redding, and Kevin Boss] to New Orleans for [1st (15), 3rd (77), 4th (129), Curtis Lofton, and Lance Moore]

     Clearly an insane amount to give up for the Saints just to move into the number one slot.  Yes Redding is a nice player although long in the tooth and Boss is a serviceable backup, but those guys are really throwaways for the cheifs.  Shortly after this move the original Saints GM was never heard from again.  (note:  the original trade involving Jimmy Graham was an even worse travesty)

 

2. Dallas trades [2nd (49)] to San Francisco for [Alex Smith]

     This trade makes little sense for the Cowboys who already had a much better QB in Tony Romo.  Dallas was not in desperate need for a QB like the Cheifs were in the real world. 

 

3. NYJ trades [Tim Tebow] to Jacksonville for [4th Round & 7th Round Picks]

     The Tebow era begins in jacksonville, but this is clearly way to much to give up for him. 

 

4. Detroit trades [Ndamukong Suh] to Denver for [Knowshon Moreno, DJ Williams, and 3rd (92)]

     Suh has been one of the most dominating players in the league up to this point.  He has had quite a few character concerns but just giving him away for a couple of underacheiving backups and only a third round pick is no where near value for this player.  Loss for Detroit here. 

5. New Orleans trades [Jonathan Vilma] to Tampa Bay for [Mike Williams]

     Tampa gives up a young playmaking WR just comming in to his prime yeas for an aging vet who's on the field play has not lived up to his name recognition

6. Indianapolis trades [Colby Fleener and Cory Redding] to Seattle for [Zach Miller and 4th (125)]

    The first of many trades involving Redding Indianapolis gives up one of their most solid defenders and a real upcomming TE for a very below average TE and only a 4th round choice. 7. New Orleans trades [Mark Ingram] to Atlanta for [4th and 6th]

     The original Saints owner is robbed of a young first round running back just comming in to his prime years. 

 

7. Oakland trades [4th (102)] to Baltimore for [Tyrod Taylor]

     Not a great value for the Raiders whatsoever.  Tyrod has been a career backup to this point and the market this offseason was not in QB's favor.  For example Matt Schaube an experienced QB who has started in the playoffs also went for a 4th round choice. 

8. Carolina trades [Matt Barkley] to Oakland for [Tyrod Taylor and Juron Criner]
     After giving up the 4th round pick to aquire Taylor, oakland is quick to turn around and give him up for an even more unproven QB in matt barkley, abandoning his original plan and wasting the original 4th round pick. 

 

9. Tennessee trades7th round pick #213th overallto Jacksonville for(7th round pick #221st overall
G John Moffitt)

     This began as the trade for absolutely nothing and Moffitt was eventually added as a throwaway. 

10.     Carolina trades [Chris Gamble] to Kansas City for [Jon Baldwin, Tony Moeaki, and 5th (138)]

This one may carry some controversy as to Gamble's availablitly.  But the fact is he retired leaving Kansas City in a lurch after giving up a solid package for his services. 

     
 

 

next up the best and worst of Free Agency.

I got a 4th for Tyrod Taylor. Used my own 4th to acquire Beason and third to acquire Sean Lee. Biggest Steal of the offseason? Child please all 3 should be in the best category. 

[GrimCoconut]

You listed a bunch of guys who have had one good year. Whitworth is a proven commodity who has been one of the best LTs for years. Granted he is getting older and his pass blocking is far superior to his run blocking, but that is the priority for any LT. I would say most of those LTs have more upside, but only a few are significantly better. Clady, Thomas, and Brown for sure after that you can poke holes in any of them.

I did, but what about Jake Long? D'brickashaw Ferguson? I don't remember Monroe being bad at all since he came out of college. Brandon Albert has been doing a very good job the past couple years. Michael Roos has had some very good years since he has been in the league. He's getting up there in age, but he is more well-rounded as a LT than Whitworth is. Whitworth has an edge in pass protection, but it's not that much. But then again, that's just my opinion. I can't go off of stats. I could well be wrong. I'm just going off of memory right now.

[GrimCoconut]

I got a 4th for Tyrod Taylor. Used my own 4th to acquire Beason and third to acquire Sean Lee. Biggest Steal of the offseason? Child please

Yeah. Sean Lee should absolutely be included in there. That was a real rip-off.

[ravensdan]

Yeah. Sean Lee should absolutely be included in there. That was a real rip-off.

Well 2 of the 3 made the list.

[gabefergy]

I did, but what about Jake Long? D'brickashaw Ferguson? I don't remember Monroe being bad at all since he came out of college. Brandon Albert has been doing a very good job the past couple years. Michael Roos has had some very good years since he has been in the league. He's getting up there in age, but he is more well-rounded as a LT than Whitworth is. Whitworth has an edge in pass protection, but it's not that much. But then again, that's just my opinion. I can't go off of stats. I could well be wrong. I'm just going off of memory right now.

Long hasnt been healthy, and when he hasnt been healthy he hasnt been nearly as good at what he does. Brick is a very good player, but is also not a great run-blocker and has never been as good a pass-protector as Whitworth. I dont agree about Roos being as good as Whitworth either. I'm not saying he is bad, but Whitworth has been a real stand-out. I'm not sure where the perception comes from that he is falling off. Over the past 4 years, only Joe Thomas has been clearly superior to him as a LT.

[GrimCoconut]

Long hasnt been healthy, and when he hasnt been healthy he hasnt been nearly as good at what he does. Brick is a very good player, but is also not a great run-blocker and has never been as good a pass-protector as Whitworth. I dont agree about Roos being as good as Whitworth either. I'm not saying he is bad, but Whitworth has been a real stand-out. I'm not sure where the perception comes from that he is falling off. Over the past 4 years, only Joe Thomas has been clearly superior to him as a LT.

I never said Whitworth has fallen off at all. I said that he's not as good of a run blocker as the others (I understand that's not the primary responsibility of the LT, but still) & that the difference between his pass protection from what I have seen isn't much compared to other LTs I mentioned. You have to mention him in the top-10 at the very least, but I can't say he's easily a top-5 LT lock right now. He's one of the few LTs who can stop Suggs, so you absolutely have to give him credit there, but I just can't say he's in the top-5 from an eyeball test. 

 

I'd like Truth to come here & perhaps give us some of those PFF stats, because as I honestly said I don't know. I'm simply going off of my eyeballs, not PFFs stats. I'm not a professional or anything.

 

And that's true about Long, but when he is healthy he is a dominant LT. Monroe has also played well. Ferguson is arguably the best OL player the Jets have. 

[stm85]

I still think Whitworth is a top 5 LT due to his pass-blocking. He is an absolute beast, and has been for years. He isnt a great run-blocker anymore, but he isnt terrible either. In today's NFL, I would take the LT who I can trust will keep my QB upright.

 

Most LT are not elite Run-blockers anyways. Staley and Brown are kind of the exception, but Staley isnt nearly the pass-blocker that Whitworth is either.

 

Whitworth is borderline top 5 now, but he is also older than those guys and had some injuries. Trade value involves a lot of projection. Would you rather have a 31 year old Whitworth or a 25 year old Monroe?

 

Another point about this trade is it weakens your division rival at one of the most vital positions on the field. Graham is a loss but he is the third corner.

This is a very valid point and I hadn't thought of it.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Whitworth is borderline top 5 now, but he is also older than those guys and had some injuries. Trade value involves a lot of projection. Would you rather have a 31 year old Whitworth or a 25 year old Monroe?

This is a very valid point and I hadn't thought of it.

Also have to remember I ended up getting stronger at OLB and replaced Whitworth with another solid LT so I didn't weaken too much. Plus I got my LT of the future in Armstead.

[ravensdan]

FYI I didn't evaluate the results of the picks in the trade value as that will be evaluated in the draft section.

[gabefergy]

Whitworth is borderline top 5 now, but he is also older than those guys and had some injuries. Trade value involves a lot of projection. Would you rather have a 31 year old Whitworth or a 25 year old Monroe?

This is a very valid point and I hadn't thought of it.

In a one year mock off season, I would rather have Whitworth. Best pass blocking OT in the league. To build a franchise on I would rather have Monroe.

[gabefergy]

Also have to remember I ended up getting stronger at OLB and replaced Whitworth with another solid LT so I didn't weaken too much. Plus I got my LT of the future in Armstead.

LT of the future means nothing in a single season mock. Whitworth > Albert in every possible way.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

LT of the future means nothing in a single season mock. Whitworth > Albert in every possible way.

That's just stupid. The goal of a mock is to set your team up in the best possible situation. If getting players for the future means nothing why even bother outside the first couple rounds of the draft? Also I never argued otherwise on the Whitworth vs. Albert thing.. I just said that he was a solid LT that happens to be a bit younger than Whitworth.

[gabefergy]

I never said Whitworth has fallen off at all. I said that he's not as good of a run blocker as the others (I understand that's not the primary responsibility of the LT, but still) & that the difference between his pass protection from what I have seen isn't much compared to other LTs I mentioned. You have to mention him in the top-10 at the very least, but I can't say he's easily a top-5 LT lock right now. He's one of the few LTs who can stop Suggs, so you absolutely have to give him credit there, but I just can't say he's in the top-5 from an eyeball test.

I'd like Truth to come here & perhaps give us some of those PFF stats, because as I honestly said I don't know. I'm simply going off of my eyeballs, not PFFs stats. I'm not a professional or anything.

And that's true about Long, but when he is healthy he is a dominant LT. Monroe has also played well. Ferguson is arguably the best OL player the Jets have.

Whitworth is the best pass-blocking LT in the NFL. He struggles a bit in the running game, but that is true for most LT. They play on that side to protect the QB, not to be road graders.

[gabefergy]

That's just stupid. The goal of a mock is to set your team up in the best possible situation. If getting players for the future means nothing why even bother outside the first couple rounds of the draft? Also I never argued otherwise on the Whitworth vs. Albert thing.. I just said that he was a solid LT that happens to be a bit younger than Whitworth.

It's not stupid. Everything we do is based on one season. Single season contracts, disregarding dead money, etc. You are free to think about the future all you want, but what matters is the product you are putting on the field.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

It's not stupid. Everything we do is based on one season. Single season contracts, disregarding dead money, etc. You are free to think about the future all you want, but what matters is the product you are putting on the field.

That is a terrible way to think about the mock. It would mean in the draft you take players that are immediate contributors with lower ceilings over players with sky high potential that need a bit to develop. It just doesn't make any sense to look at the draft as though it's a 1 season thing. Also it would drastically decrease the value of mid-late round draft picks in the mock since almost none of them would come in and contribute from the get go so it would be better to just trade them all for a couple capable and proven players. That just makes very little sense to me but alright. The mock is 1 year because we couldn't do it any other way not because it isn't meant to set your team up in the best possible situation for the future.

[gabefergy]

That is a terrible way to think about the mock. It would mean in the draft you take players that are immediate contributors with lower ceilings over players with sky high potential that need a bit to develop. It just doesn't make any sense to look at the draft as though it's a 1 season thing. Also it would drastically decrease the value of mid-late round draft picks in the mock since almost none of them would come in and contribute from the get go so it would be better to just trade them all for a couple capable and proven players. That just makes very little sense to me but alright. The mock is 1 year because we couldn't do it any other way not because it isn't meant to set your team up in the best possible situation for the future.

Well you can look at it however you like, but I think you are being a little extreme. In the draft, you take the best players. It has nothing to do with future potential versus being able to play right away. I really dont see much of any difference. If a player has potential I am going to take him because I think everyone I draft should be able to contribute immediately. Players that I drafted in the middle to late rounds I think are good enough to play and at the very elast provide depth. If you are talking about UDFA, I guess it doesnt matter all that much, but it is a fun exercise. I just dont see the point in "building for the future" when everything gets tossed out the window as soon as the draft is over. I want to build the best team on paper I can right now, and when I compare my team to others that is what I am looking at.