Terrell Suggs a cap casualty next year?

[rmw10]

 
 

Yes, assuming another minimal increase in the Cap, they will again be very tight against the Cap.

 

And it doesn't seem like there are as many players that are candidates to be cut.  From what I've seen, Suggs, McClain, McKinnie, Koch, and Spears are the only guys that stand out.  They all total up to a savings of approximately $16.8M, and a total of $9M without Suggs.

[Rav'n Maniac]

Can't disagree with that. He'll obviously get cut if he had a disappointing year. No question. Well, cut or restructured. I think even with a poor year we'd find a way to keep him but I think his deal would get restructured unless he flat out refuses. That's entirely possible. He doesn't come off as the type who would want to take a cut.

I'm with you there! Didn't he hold out on his last contract or when he was tagged, something like that.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm with you there! Didn't he hold out on his last contract or when he was tagged, something like that.

Yes and I believe I remember him saying he wouldn't take a pay cut because those were the terms agreed to originally. Now he could have matured. I'm just stating his previous comment that I recall.

[JoeyFlex5]

suggs in a nutshell :

loud season, quiet season, loud season, quiet season.

hes done it since harbs came to town, quiet season doesnt mean bad season, suggs has never had a bad season, but a run stopping and zone defending LOLB doesnt make alot of noise, even though he plays a valuable part regardless, and thats what his quiet seasons are. his loud seasons are when he racks up 9 or more sacks and makes just about every single sack a crucial one, making them happen on 3rd and short or in the 4th quarter in a tight game, and forcing fumbles for about half of his sacks. sizzle seems to have alternated between having those 2 types of seasons for quite some time now, like after his 08 season when he had like 12 sacks or something, and then he gained weight to stop the run better, and only had 6 sacks, then the next year he bounced back and upped the sack numbers. if suggs has another DPOY caliber season this year, ill just see it as typical of him honestly, and if he doesnt shine as bright in 2014, ill just say wait til next year, he'll be back.

[beanfigger]

Yes and I believe I remember him saying he wouldn't take a pay cut because those were the terms agreed to originally. Now he could have matured. I'm just stating his previous comment that I recall.

 

So are you saying that maturing means you should allow the other party (the team) to alter the terms of a mutual contract to benefit them by taking a pay cut?  I know NFL contracts aren't guaranteed and both sides know this going in, but I struggle to accept the fact that players should be expected to simply give in to the team's preferred contract alterations.  I would love it if every player I liked and want to stay would do whatever they had to to make that possible, but I don't ever blame players when they refuse to take a pay cut before their contract is up.  The teams have all the leverage because odds are other teams might agree with them in terms of what a player is worth, so the player might actually make more money with the suggested pay cut than they would with another team in the FA market.  I just think it is a matter of respect, and the player might be willing to go somewhere else for less money where they haven't been disrespected.

[GrimCoconut]

So are you saying that maturing means you should allow the other party (the team) to alter the terms of a mutual contract to benefit them by taking a pay cut? I know NFL contracts aren't guaranteed and both sides know this going in, but I struggle to accept the fact that players should be expected to simply give in to the team's preferred contract alterations. I would love it if every player I liked and want to stay would do whatever they had to to make that possible, but I don't ever blame players when they refuse to take a pay cut before their contract is up. The teams have all the leverage because odds are other teams might agree with them in terms of what a player is worth, so the player might actually make more money with the suggested pay cut than they would with another team in the FA market. I just think it is a matter of respect, and the player might be willing to go somewhere else for less money where they haven't been disrespected.

I never said that. I'm saying that he might be more willing to help the team out. It had nothing to do with him taking a pay cut to be a nice guy. A problem he faces is that the value of players has dropped in free agency if you look at the recent salaries. He might be willing to go on a cheaper deal because of that fact.

[jaege]

I never said that. I'm saying that he might be more willing to help the team out. It had nothing to do with him taking a pay cut to be a nice guy. A problem he faces is that the value of players has dropped in free agency if you look at the recent salaries. He might be willing to go on a cheaper deal because of that fact.

Besides, he might not have any choice. Soon all teams will be up against the cap, and no one may offer him the fat salary that he thinks he deserves. Several million is better than no million.

[beanfigger]

I never said that. I'm saying that he might be more willing to help the team out. It had nothing to do with him taking a pay cut to be a nice guy. A problem he faces is that the value of players has dropped in free agency if you look at the recent salaries. He might be willing to go on a cheaper deal because of that fact.

 

I totally agree with that.  I do think he might get more money with us even with a pay cut, but you never know.  Look how much Kruger and Ellerbe got.  It's an unfortunate truth for players that they have no power in contract negotiations during the length of the contract.  I was just confused because you followed the sentence in which you stated he said he would not accept a pay cut because those were the terms he and the team agreed to with another sentence in which you stated "maybe he has matured since then."  I know sometimes it's hard to gauge a person's meaning when just reading what they typed, but I still don't think it shows a lack of maturity when a player doesn't want to renegotiate a deal, mid-deal, that both he and the team previously agreed to.

[GrimCoconut]

I totally agree with that. I do think he might get more money with us even with a pay cut, but you never know. Look how much Kruger and Ellerbe got. It's an unfortunate truth for players that they have no power in contract negotiations during the length of the contract. I was just confused because you followed the sentence in which you stated he said he would not accept a pay cut because those were the terms he and the team agreed to with another sentence in which you stated "maybe he has matured since then." I know sometimes it's hard to gauge a person's meaning when just reading what they typed, but I still don't think it shows a lack of maturity when a player doesn't want to renegotiate a deal, mid-deal, that both he and the team previously agreed to.

What I meant by maturity is this:
1. He has a well documented history of immaturity in many areas.
2. He has said that he wouldn't want to restructure from what I remember.
3. Many good veteran players got seriously under paid compared to other years and this may be a trend.
4. If it is a trend then he may not have a choice. While it's true that some players are still getting paid other aren't. I can't ignore the majority for the minority. The truth is that Suggs may not get better than any of offer we make and it may be in his best interest to take a small cut then risk what others have like Abraham.

My final point is maturity is evidenced by him recognizing the factors I just detailed.

[beanfigger]

What I meant by maturity is this:
1. He has a well documented history of immaturity in many areas.
2. He has said that he wouldn't want to restructure from what I remember.
3. Many good veteran players got seriously under paid compared to other years and this may be a trend.
4. If it is a trend then he may not have a choice. While it's true that some players are still getting paid other aren't. I can't ignore the majority for the minority. The truth is that Suggs may not get better than any of offer we make and it may be in his best interest to take a small cut then risk what others have like Abraham.

My final point is maturity is evidenced by him recognizing the factors I just detailed.

 

I agree with almost all those points.  The second point you made, to me, has nothing to do with maturity, but I understand what you mean when you say he should recognize that.  However, like I said before, players might be more inclined to try and change teams if they know they are going to be forced to take a pay cut anyway just because they might have some animosity towards the organization that is basically reneging the deal they agreed to in the first place.  Understanding the business side of it might not be enough for some players to overlook the fact that the team is saying, "We made a mistake when we offered you this money, so to make up for it, we want you to give it back."  That's kind of what happened with Welker this year.  The offer he got in Denver reportedly was about the same as (and the Patriots claim it was less than) what he was offered to stay in NE.  We wound up with Dumervil partly for similar reasons.

 

I hope, like most of us, that Suggs will be generous with us enough to take a pay cut if that's what the FO in Baltimore decides it needs to be done.  However, if he doesn't want to I don't think that makes him immature in any way.  It's not like he will go broke if he doesn't restructure with us to stay.  All in all, I hope he returns to form and dominates this year, which I believe will make this conversation moot.  In that case, he'll have the leverage in the negotiations like Brady, and he can help the team's cap situation without sacrificing any of the money he was due to make because we won't cut him.

[GrimCoconut]

I agree with almost all those points. The second point you made, to me, has nothing to do with maturity, but I understand what you mean when you say he should recognize that. However, like I said before, players might be more inclined to try and change teams if they know they are going to be forced to take a pay cut anyway just because they might have some animosity towards the organization that is basically reneging the deal they agreed to in the first place. Understanding the business side of it might not be enough for some players to overlook the fact that the team is saying, "We made a mistake when we offered you this money, so to make up for it, we want you to give it back." That's kind of what happened with Welker this year. The offer he got in Denver reportedly was about the same as (and the Patriots claim it was less than) what he was offered to stay in NE. We wound up with Dumervil partly for similar reasons.

I hope, like most of us, that Suggs will be generous with us enough to take a pay cut if that's what the FO in Baltimore decides it needs to be done. However, if he doesn't want to I don't think that makes him immature in any way. It's not like he will go broke if he doesn't restructure with us to stay. All in all, I hope he returns to form and dominates this year, which I believe will make this conversation moot. In that case, he'll have the leverage in the negotiations like Brady, and he can help the team's cap situation without sacrificing any of the money he was due to make because we won't cut him.

I agree that I believe he also performs back at his DPOY form. If you read my one post or pretty much any post on this topic you'll see I firmly believe that. I don't see Suggs getting cut. I think we could restructure and find that outcome very likely. I'm not sure if it would be a reduction in pay as it would be a way of spreading the cap over a longer period like Marshal Yanda. That's my point.

I'm not saying he's immature for refusing a restructure or pay cut but I'm saying he'd be a bit immature if he doesn't recognize hihis options and how risky it is. He's not young anymore and despite his DPOY performance and all the good he'd done he's coming off of a big injury.

I'm just trying to temper my love for Suggs by recognizing that the ball is also in his court. I don't think it's an insult to ask him to take a small cut or even to spread his money over a longer period if it means security and familiarity.

[beanfigger]

I'm just trying to temper my love for Suggs by recognizing that the ball is also in his court. I don't think it's an insult to ask him to take a small cut or even to spread his money over a longer period if it means security and familiarity.

 

Spreading it out is certainly not an insult and should be the first option.  It's not an insult to ask him to take a small pay cut, but it's a little insulting to say he isn't worth the money he signed for and if he doesn't take a reduction in salary he will be cut loose.  I don't think that will be the case, though, so let's just hope for the best this year.

[K-Dog]

loud season, quiet season, loud season, quiet season.

Am I the only one who read this in the voice of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck?

[omar586]

Suggs & ngata Will restructure their contracts or get cut next year

[Ozzsome]

Suggs & ngata Will restructure their contracts or get cut next year

Don't think so, arguably our 2 best defense players

[RavensDE]

That's the downside to getting the big money. You have to be elite to get elite money. More correct is they have to believe you'll be elite this coming year to get elite money. Suggs has been and I suspect will be an elite player, but yeah if he's slipping or he looks like his best days are behind him he'll have to renegotiate or get cut. I think that's fair. He has his signing bonus and that's all he can rely on.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

Am I the only one who read this in the voice of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck?

Not anymore.

[beanfigger]

Suggs & ngata Will restructure their contracts or get cut next year

 

Cutting Ngata next year will actually cost us more money.  He's safe for two more seasons.

[theFRANCHISE]

Suggs & ngata Will restructure their contracts or get cut next year

 

I doubt it's as cut-and-dry as that.

 

The team has already lost a lot of names. From a public relations standpoint, to let go of two more big names next year -- especially if they're still productive -- would garner even more backlash than letting go of Pollard, Leach, and others combined. 

 

And from a football standpoint, would the team really risk letting these two guys go to the competition even after one or two quiet seasons? Sometimes, playing keep-away is a necessity; revenge is a strong motivator, especially for veterans.

[JoeyFlex5]

Am I the only one who read this in the voice of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck?

elmer fudd*** haha

[ThePurpleWall]

he will be here

[Purple City Bird Gang]

I hope they'll both be here but it would hurt to see Suggs bringing Joe down bad thought yikes

[SecretAgentMan]

Am I the only one who read this in the voice of Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck?

Sup Doc?

[CapoRocky]

This is crazy talk. Suggs will be 100% when camp rolls around. So will Ngata. Those two guys at 100% are two of the best defensive players in the league. Only way Suggs gets cut is if he gets hurt again, and even, that's not a guarantee

I would rather focus on the presence than the future right now.  We need to get them on the field, keep them healthy, and win another Super Bowl before we talk about cap casualties.

[izvoodoo]

Suggs & ngata Will restructure their contracts or get cut next year

suggs might, Ngata getting cut would actually cost us money.

[ellicottraven]

Okay so this might be a controversial view but with the amount of defensive players we have I think that Suggs is in danger of being released next year if he doesn't return to the level we all know he can play at, his cap hit is about $12.5 million next year and we would have another draft to replace him. If he performs like he can this year then I can't see this happening but if he can't bounce back from his injury and underperforms this year I think it's something we will look at, any thoughts?

No thoughts whatsoever. I am not a defeatist nor am I a pessimist. I am an optimist and believe Suggs will be the old Terrell Suggs we all know and love. Also, there is absolutely no need to discuss an outcome based on speculation and innuendo. Absolutely not required at this point in time, especially given that Suggs came into mini camp in the best shape of his life!

[AsianRice]

Suggs is going to retire as a Ravens like Lewis was period!!

[display name]

Okay so this might be a controversial view but with the amount of defensive players we have I think that Suggs is in danger of being released next year if he doesn't return to the level we all know he can play at, his cap hit is about $12.5 million next year and we would have another draft to replace him. If he performs like he can this year then I can't see this happening but if he can't bounce back from his injury and underperforms this year I think it's something we will look at, any thoughts?

The only reason you got negged is because people have a hard time parting ways with him. Suggs coming back from his Achilles could be big. Bu let's not forget that he is also getting up there in age. I think he will bounce back and play at a high level for another couple years. But if he doesn't, he had better be willing to negotiate a pay cut.

I do not nescessarily disagree. It's simply a matter of wether or not his production will come up or not. I think it will, but again it's something to think about.

[display name]

Suggs is going to retire as a Ravens like Lewis was period!!

We said that about Reed and look where he is. It's a sad thought, but this is a business.

[display name]

Ngata isn't.  He has a $16M cap hit, but $15M in dead money if we cut him.  For $1M, we keep him.

Quoting for pure awareness.