Amplus' Top Tiers - The Final Installment

[Yatagarasu]

I respectfully disagree with my ranking, but that is your opinion. 

 

I believe I have better receivers (Amendola, Moore, Mike Thomas, Streater and Ford) than some teams in front of me and my running backs speak for themselves. Darren McFadden should benefit with the changing of the blocking scheme and the added talent at guard and right tackle. Also, Gio will be a change of pace back, Reece will still get touches and BGE will get that hard yardage. My tight ends David and Otten are pretty decent as well.

 

QB is definitely a huge question mark but that being said, I should still at LEAST be ahead of the Vikings.

 

I felt the Raiders have a young team and all, but Mark Barkley is a big "if." Darren McFadden is too injury-prone to be even placed in the top ten. I might put this team under review on how high Barkley is taken. 1st Round, maybe a raise. Anything lower, maybe not.

[arnie_uk]

I will give more detailed response later but this o line and rb group is quite formidable. Denver's is bad.

I've one of the best lines in the league so I'd be interested to here this response

[Alexir]

I felt the Raiders have a young team and all, but Mark Barkley is a big "if." Darren McFadden is too injury-prone to be even placed in the top ten. I might put this team under review on how high Barkley is taken. 1st Round, maybe a raise. Anything lower, maybe not.

 

My point is what has Christian Ponder done? Injuries have been on AP and Harvin just as much as DMC Not saying they are top 10 but they are better than some others.

[-Truth-]

My point is what has Christian Ponder done? Injuries have been on AP and Harvin just as much as DMC Not saying they are top 10 but they are better than some others.

 

I wouldn't put Peterson in the same category in terms of injuries with McFadden. Peterson's had his nicks and bruises, but he's only missed 5 games in 5 seasons, and more than bounced back following the devastating events in 2011. McFadden still hasn't played a full season, missing 26 games in that span. Definitely not just as much.

[Alexir]

I wouldn't put Peterson in the same category in terms of injuries with McFadden. Peterson's had his nicks and bruises, but he's only missed 5 games in 5 seasons, and more than bounced back following the devastating events in 2011. McFadden still hasn't played a full season, missing 26 games in that span. Definitely not just as much.

 

True but Harvin also has missed his share of games. McFadden isn't my whole offense either, for the Vikings, they really only have Harvin, Rudolph and All day. I have better depth and more playmakers.

[-Truth-]

True but Harvin also has missed his share of games. McFadden isn't my whole offense either, for the Vikings, they really only have Harvin, Rudolph and All day. I have better depth and more playmakers.

 

Harvin I can't at all disagree with. It's a fair point, which is why I omitted his name from my comment. My only argument is that Peterson is nowhere near the same category as McFadden in terms of injuries, because Peterson's injuries haven't held him back from producing at a top tier level.

[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Fair enough assessment of San Diego

 

All riding on a very young line 

[Yatagarasu]

Series 3: Overall - All Released
Firepowers (Offensive Units)
Strongholds (Defensive Units)
Superpowers (Overall Rankings)

 

If you guys have any request, question, or comment, feel free to post.

 

If you think your team's ranking is question.

 

Please state reason why your team is better compared to the teams placed above.

 

Just saying my team is top 5 without giving reasons why one of the top 5 teams is not a good explanation.

 

Better the explanation, the sooner I adjust these rankings.

 

Enjoy...

[-Truth-]

Once again, thank you for the nod and for the recognition. If I may, I'm a little surprised by the addition of the Titans among the elite defensive groups. My reasoning for such is Tennessee fielded one of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2012. With that in mind, they added Michael Johnson, a very solid player from Cincinnati. They also added Mike Devito and Vance Walker, who've been an underrated pieces for New York and Atlanta. Leon Hall gives them a terrific option at CB, and their Safety situation is certainly improved, as Michael Griffin suffered his worst season as a pro and Jordan Babineaux was an underwhelming SS. Lastly, Arthur Brown should be an upgrade at ILB.

 

However, in the process, they've managed to do away with Derrick Morgan, who was one of the best DEs in the league last year. They also traded away Jurrell Casey, who was arguably among the best DTs. And in spite of adding a CB, they lost an outstanding CB in Alterraun Verner. A case can certainly be made that all three of these players outplayed their predecessors. Shea McClellin amount to little in his Rookie season, so his impact is a bit overstated. Ultimately, the only significant upgrades that I've seen are at Safety and ILB. And I just personally have a hard time seeing how that vaults them from the 26th ranked defense to the 2nd best. Just my opinion.

[Yatagarasu]

Seems reasonable...

 

They could've been rated higher if they did keep Derrick Morgan and Jurrell Casey.

 

The Apex status should be rare as they are one of the few complete teams.

 

I thought the Titans were a complete team, but then they still have a lot to prove.

[-Truth-]

Seems reasonable...

 

They could've been rated higher if they did keep Derrick Morgan and Jurrell Casey.

 

The Apex status should be rare as they are one of the few complete teams.

 

I thought the Titans were a complete team, but then they still have a lot to prove.

 

I'm glad that we're on the same page. If you don't mind, I'll post a more detailed break down of my own defense in this thread. It will be completely up to you whether it sways the rankings either way, as my intention is simply to put it on paper. I've just been anxious to do this, since I've put quite a bit of effort into overhauling that drop, and it'll be rewarding to see how it has all come together.

[Yatagarasu]

I'm glad that we're on the same page. If you don't mind, I'll post a more detailed break down of my own defense in this thread. It will be completely up to you whether it sways the rankings either way, as my intention is simply to put it on paper. I've just been anxious to do this, since I've put quite a bit of effort into overhauling that drop, and it'll be rewarding to see how it has all come together.

 

I'll be fine, if you want to send a customized team description for me to adjust.

[Guest nflfan123]

I run a 3-4 Defense with Cody at nose, Matt at Shaugnessy at End and Tommy Kelly and Mallicah goodman rotating at End.
my 4 LBs are Ware at Rush, Paul P at mike, Jelani at Will and Scott at Sam OLB

[Yatagarasu]

I run a 3-4 Defense with Cody at nose, Matt at Shaugnessy at End and Tommy Kelly and Mallicah goodman rotating at End.
my 4 LBs are Ware at Rush, Paul P at mike, Jelani at Will and Scott at Sam OLB

 

Scott isn't really a 3-4 OLB. However he could fit as a 4-3 SAM, thus makes your defense a possible 4-3 base.

[GrimCoconut]

Once again, thank you for the nod and for the recognition. If I may, I'm a little surprised by the addition of the Titans among the elite defensive groups. My reasoning for such is Tennessee fielded one of the worst defenses in the NFL in 2012. With that in mind, they added Michael Johnson, a very solid player from Cincinnati. They also added Mike Devito and Vance Walker, who've been an underrated pieces for New York and Atlanta. Leon Hall gives them a terrific option at CB, and their Safety situation is certainly improved, as Michael Griffin suffered his worst season as a pro and Jordan Babineaux was an underwhelming SS. Lastly, Arthur Brown should be an upgrade at ILB.

However, in the process, they've managed to do away with Derrick Morgan, who was one of the best DEs in the league last year. They also traded away Jurrell Casey, who was arguably among the best DTs. And in spite of adding a CB, they lost an outstanding CB in Alterraun Verner. A case can certainly be made that all three of these players outplayed their predecessors. Shea McClellin amount to little in his Rookie season, so his impact is a bit overstated. Ultimately, the only significant upgrades that I've seen are at Safety and ILB. And I just personally have a hard time seeing how that vaults them from the 26th ranked defense to the 2nd best. Just my opinion.

Just because I traded those players doesn't make my team less talented in terms of starters. It weakens my depth sure but not my starters. Morgan would not have started regardless because Kamerion plays LE with Johnson at RE. My defense was designed to clog the middle of the defense to free up my Linebackers to make plays like Ayers Who had shown to be a capable pass rusher.

Shea is a pure depth guy who I plan on rotating at linebacker & defensive end to pass rush similar to Miller.

Add for my CB I moved Jason to #2 and have Hall as a #1. DJ Moore is the number three and I have the depth to run a committee there as well. Having Reed orcestrating the secondary will also help big time.

I also have a very good offensive line and special teams that should pin offenses back deep. The line and running backs I have should Hello ready up click to decrease the time my defense pays. Also because I have playmakers throughout my defense I should force turnovers add well.

I do believe my defensive unit is really one of the very best in this mock. Not sure I read your statement here right but I wanted to make my argument just in case.

[Clutch Ravens]

I'd argue that my defense isn't just average.

 

The clear-cut weakness of this defense last year was the linebacker tandem Acho & Schofield which was the worst in the NFL by a wide margin, which is now a massive upside tandem with Jordan & Wilson. Despite getting no rush from these scrubs the pass defense ranked 5th in the NFL. The only real losses in the secondary for me were Toler, who I feel I upgraded with Banks and Adrian Wilson, who was such a big liability in coverage that he was benched on 3rd downs and clear passing plays. While they were poor against the run I upgraded from the run-stopping liability that is Dockett with Jurrell Casey, one of the best young run defenders in the NFL. Williams to Bunkley is even. Back to OLB, where the biggest liabilities on this defense were and, again, upgraded.

 

I wouldn't argue that it's a top 5, maybe even top 10 unit, but it's definitely better than average.

[Guest nflfan123]

Scott isn't really a 3-4 OLB. However he could fit as a 4-3 SAM, thus makes your defense a possible 4-3 base.

Or a hybrid

[gabefergy]

Corvus, I think your analysis is pretty spot on. I could nit-pick a bit, but everyone has their own opinions. 

 

Your take on the Dolphins, I think is very accurate. The team will go as far as Tannehill takes them. I put the pieces around him to be successful, including a strong Oline with veteran receivers and a young stable of RBs. The defense will be great, based around an elite pass-rush. 

 

Too bad the real Dolphins couldnt figure out a way to protect their young QB with 40M in cap space.

[Dubs]

well done - I dont want to discredit your reasoning as I think it is spot on but I will question how the Seahawks are not #1 D!!??!! The depth at each position is just disturbing (you need to add Red Bryant too). I think you underrate the LBs as "serviceable" KJ Wright may be the best SAM backer in the NFL, Wagner is top 10, and whoever wins with Boley, Roach and Levy will probably have stepped up their game to win the spot. My DBs are loaded up front and with depth. While one spot is not much I want the top one, ha. Either way well done and I do think I should be in the top group for overall too mainly because the way I have assembled my team the offense and defense compliment eachother perfectly which is a large portion of being a great team. Its kinda like how the Colts were a great 'team' in the Peyton days because Freeney and Mathis were the perfect compliment to a high and quick scoring offense. My pound and ground run game is a perfect compliment to a defense that does not allow quick points and wears teams down with size...just a though full of my own bias

[Geving]

well done - I dont want to discredit your reasoning as I think it is spot on but I will question how the Seahawks are not #1 D!!??!! The depth at each position is just disturbing (you need to add Red Bryant too). I think you underrate the LBs as "serviceable" KJ Wright may be the best SAM backer in the NFL, Wagner is top 10, and whoever wins with Boley, Roach and Levy will probably have stepped up their game to win the spot. My DBs are loaded up front and with depth. While one spot is not much I want the top one, ha. Either way well done and I do think I should be in the top group for overall too mainly because the way I have assembled my team the offense and defense compliment eachother perfectly which is a large portion of being a great team. Its kinda like how the Colts were a great 'team' in the Peyton days because Freeney and Mathis were the perfect compliment to a high and quick scoring offense. My pound and ground run game is a perfect compliment to a defense that does not allow quick points and wears teams down with size...just a though full of my own bias

Agreed. Hands down the best defensive unit imo.

[Yatagarasu]

well done - I dont want to discredit your reasoning as I think it is spot on but I will question how the Seahawks are not #1 D!!??!! The depth at each position is just disturbing (you need to add Red Bryant too). I think you underrate the LBs as "serviceable" KJ Wright may be the best SAM backer in the NFL, Wagner is top 10, and whoever wins with Boley, Roach and Levy will probably have stepped up their game to win the spot. My DBs are loaded up front and with depth. While one spot is not much I want the top one, ha. Either way well done and I do think I should be in the top group for overall too mainly because the way I have assembled my team the offense and defense compliment eachother perfectly which is a large portion of being a great team. Its kinda like how the Colts were a great 'team' in the Peyton days because Freeney and Mathis were the perfect compliment to a high and quick scoring offense. My pound and ground run game is a perfect compliment to a defense that does not allow quick points and wears teams down with size...just a though full of my own bias

 

 

Agreed. Hands down the best defensive unit imo.

 

Both the Seahawks and Broncos are Apex Defenses, the best of the best. The tiers aren't labeled with numbers, so you can consider them as 1A and 1B. Anyways, I'll put them on top, which shouldn't make too much of a defense since I rated both defenses highly.

 

The Overall Tiers were made to show what teams have the best chance to make the playoffs and go deep.

 

The only problem with the Overall Tiers is that nobody from the NFC East are rated in the top 12 or even 15. So it will be a crapshoot for the NFC East like when under-deserving teams like the 7-9 Seahawks and 8-8 Chargers made the playoffs.

[Yatagarasu]

Just because I traded those players doesn't make my team less talented in terms of starters. It weakens my depth sure but not my starters. Morgan would not have started regardless because Kamerion plays LE with Johnson at RE. My defense was designed to clog the middle of the defense to free up my Linebackers to make plays like Ayers Who had shown to be a capable pass rusher.

Shea is a pure depth guy who I plan on rotating at linebacker & defensive end to pass rush similar to Miller.

Add for my CB I moved Jason to #2 and have Hall as a #1. DJ Moore is the number three and I have the depth to run a committee there as well. Having Reed orcestrating the secondary will also help big time.

I also have a very good offensive line and special teams that should pin offenses back deep. The line and running backs I have should Hello ready up click to decrease the time my defense pays. Also because I have playmakers throughout my defense I should force turnovers add well.

I do believe my defensive unit is really one of the very best in this mock. Not sure I read your statement here right but I wanted to make my argument just in case.

 

I like the Titans defense as one of the best, but they have two spots filled by rookies with Arthur Brown and Jonathan Cyprien. I'm sure those rookies will play well. I feel the Broncos and Seahawks defense are more experienced and talented than the Titans.

[-Truth-]

Just because I traded those players doesn't make my team less talented in terms of starters. It weakens my depth sure but not my starters. Morgan would not have started regardless because Kamerion plays LE with Johnson at RE. My defense was designed to clog the middle of the defense to free up my Linebackers to make plays like Ayers Who had shown to be a capable pass rusher.

Shea is a pure depth guy who I plan on rotating at linebacker & defensive end to pass rush similar to Miller.

Add for my CB I moved Jason to #2 and have Hall as a #1. DJ Moore is the number three and I have the depth to run a committee there as well. Having Reed orcestrating the secondary will also help big time.

I also have a very good offensive line and special teams that should pin offenses back deep. The line and running backs I have should Hello ready up click to decrease the time my defense pays. Also because I have playmakers throughout my defense I should force turnovers add well.

I do believe my defensive unit is really one of the very best in this mock. Not sure I read your statement here right but I wanted to make my argument just in case.

 

The first part is debatable, but it certainly doesn't make your team more talented. We're already aware of each other's opinions regarding Morgan and Johnson. I clearly consider Morgan to be the better player based on his performance this season, which you've disagreed with, we'll leave it at that. I understand your defensive scheme, but trading away your best run defender in Jurrell Casey goes completely against it.

 

I'm aware of that. I was just remaking that his presence was seemingly overstated in the original remarks, as he didn't have much of an impact in Chicago last season. That you did, but in losing a standout in Verner, the addition of Hall alone isn't an improvement over the previous CB corps. Moore also had a tough season in coverage in 2012, and I recall Tommie Campbell playing well when given the chance, who's no longer on the roster. Although the addition of McFadden bolsters the CB corps. And I've already mentioned that the fact that you've definitely upgraded your Safety corps.

 

I don't at all see how the Offensive Line comes into play when discussing the other side of the ball. And regarding your Special Teams, it's not far removed from last year's unit. Sebastian Janikowski had one more TB than Rob Bironas, and you've kept the same Punter. My point is this. You've significantly upgraded that ILB and the Safety positions. Other than that, in terms of talent, it's very difficult to argue the rest of the defense is better than its predecessor. Your ST unit is near identical in comparison between the performances of its past and current personnel. The Titans defense was ranked 26th last season. What merits for its ranking to vault from one of the absolute worst to being one of the absolute best? Take San Francisco in relation to your argument. They're returning almost their entire defensive unit, and adding a 1st rounder in Alec Ogletree in the process. They have one of the league's best Offensive Lines. They have one of the NFL's best running games. They also own one of the best punters in football. Overall, they've owned a Top 4 defense over the last two seasons under their HC. With that in mind, considering that your improvements on defense weren't astronomical, I just don't see how your defense deserves to be superior on paper over a dominant unit that's been held together.

[-Truth-]

I'd argue that my defense isn't just average.

 

The clear-cut weakness of this defense last year was the linebacker tandem Acho & Schofield which was the worst in the NFL by a wide margin, which is now a massive upside tandem with Jordan & Wilson. Despite getting no rush from these scrubs the pass defense ranked 5th in the NFL. The only real losses in the secondary for me were Toler, who I feel I upgraded with Banks and Adrian Wilson, who was such a big liability in coverage that he was benched on 3rd downs and clear passing plays. While they were poor against the run I upgraded from the run-stopping liability that is Dockett with Jurrell Casey, one of the best young run defenders in the NFL. Williams to Bunkley is even. Back to OLB, where the biggest liabilities on this defense were and, again, upgraded.

 

I wouldn't argue that it's a top 5, maybe even top 10 unit, but it's definitely better than average.

 

Actually, Wilson was solid in coverage. Personally, I don't have a clue on why he was demoted, as he looked solid when I watched him play. And statistically, he was targeted 27 times in 2012, allowing 12 receptions, with 2 TDs, 1 INT and a QB rating of 78.8. It pails in comparison to his 2011 performance in coverage, but it definitely doesn't represent him being a liability in this facet.

[GrimCoconut]

I like the Titans defense as one of the best, but they have two spots filled by rookies with Arthur Brown and Jonathan Cyprien. I'm sure those rookies will play well. I feel the Broncos and Seahawks defense are more experienced and talented than the Titans.

That's fair but I would like to make one or two points there: while I have two rookies starting, the pressure on them should be less due to the veteran pass rushers and defensive line add well as the surrounding veteran leadership on the defense. For this reason I personally dislike starting rookie CB & pass rushers as 3-down players because of their inexperience.

[GrimCoconut]

The first part is debatable, but it certainly doesn't make your team more talented. We're already aware of each other's opinions regarding Morgan and Johnson. I clearly consider Morgan to be the better player based on his performance this season, which you've disagreed with, we'll leave it at that. I understand your defensive scheme, but trading away your best run defender in Jurrell Casey goes completely against it.

I'm aware of that. I was just remaking that his presence was seemingly overstated in the original remarks, as he didn't have much of an impact in Chicago last season. That you did, but in losing a standout in Verner, the addition of Hall alone isn't an improvement over the previous CB corps. Moore also had a tough season in coverage in 2012, and I recall Tommie Campbell playing well when given the chance, who's no longer on the roster. Although the addition of McFadden bolsters the CB corps. And I've already mentioned that the fact that you've definitely upgraded your Safety corps.

I don't at all see how the Offensive Line comes into play when discussing the other side of the ball. And regarding your Special Teams, it's not far removed from last year's unit. Sebastian Janikowski had one more TB than Rob Bironas, and you've kept the same Punter. My point is this. You've significantly upgraded that ILB and the Safety positions. Other than that, in terms of talent, it's very difficult to argue the rest of the defense is better than its predecessor. Your ST unit is near identical in comparison between the performances of its past and current personnel. The Titans defense was ranked 26th last season. What merits for its ranking to vault from one of the absolute worst to being one of the absolute best? Take San Francisco in relation to your argument. They're returning almost their entire defensive unit, and adding a 1st rounder in Alec Ogletree in the process. They have one of the league's best Offensive Lines. They have one of the NFL's best running games. They also own one of the best punters in football. Overall, they've owned a Top 4 defense over the last two seasons under their HC. With that in mind, considering that your improvements on defense weren't astronomical, I just don't see how your defense deserves to be superior on paper over a dominant unit that's been held together.

Before I argue you further, answer/clarify something for me, my man: as short & simple as you can, what exactly are you saying about my defense? This isn't any attack. I don't want to engage in an unnecessary debate and I see the potential for it. Thanks.

[-Truth-]

Before I argue you further, answer/clarify something for me, my man: as short & simple as you can, what exactly are you saying about my defense? This isn't any attack. I don't want to engage in an unnecessary debate and I see the potential for it. Thanks.

 

No problem. I appreciate you asking for me to clarify. I was just arguing that it's difficult for me to envision this defense as a Top 3 unit. I personally don't feel that enough changes were made from last year's group for it to automatically zoom past the likes of Houston and San Francisco, two top defenses who've both kept their units together since 2012.

[GrimCoconut]

No problem. I appreciate you asking for me to clarify. I was just arguing that it's difficult for me to envision this defense as a Top 3 unit. I personally don't feel that enough changes were made from last year's group for it to automatically zoom past the likes of Houston and San Francisco, two top defenses who've both kept their units together since 2012.

Ah. I see. I don't have the patience to type out all the reasons why I disagree with you there. Not right now. I will reply later when I'm on my laptop so I can better explain.

You asked me why offensive line plays a role on defense. When I look at a team I look at all levels of the team. You're offense can greatly influence and affect your defense. Three and outs, poor field position, offensive turnovers, sacks, etc. That's why I brought up offensive line.

I do believe I have a top 3 defense. I'll get more into it later. That's just something for you to reply and most likely argue.

[-Truth-]

Ah. I see. I don't have the patience to type out all the reasons why I disagree with you there. Not right now. I will reply later when I'm on my laptop so I can better explain.

You asked me why offensive line plays a role on defense. When I look at a team I look at all levels of the team. You're offense can greatly influence and affect your defense. Three and outs, poor field position, offensive turnovers, sacks, etc. That's why I brought up offensive line.

I do believe I have a top 3 defense. I'll get more into it later. That's just something for you to reply and most likely argue.

 

I understand.

 

I'll refer to my previous example of San Francisco, who own one of the best Offensive Lines. Houston's unit is no slouch neither. Both teams own terrific running games. I definitely agree in the Offense being an influence. This was evidenced by Kansas City, whose defense played very well when on the field, but was marred by the incompetence of their Offense. However, there is a separate ranking for the other side of the ball. If you were to use this argument in the Overall rankings, then I'd completely understand. But not when we're judging both units on an individual basis.

 

That's expected. I believe that mine is easily in conversation, as I'm sure that others do as well about their defenses, which is why I'm not using mine as an example. I just personally don't at all see how your unit jumps ahead of some of the already well-established defenses.

[GrimCoconut]

I understand.

 

I'll refer to my previous example of San Francisco, who own one of the best Offensive Lines. Houston's unit is no slouch neither. Both teams own terrific running games. I definitely agree in the Offense being an influence. This was evidenced by Kansas City, whose defense played very well when on the field, but was marred by the incompetence of their Offense. However, there is a separate ranking for the other side of the ball. If you were to use this argument in the Overall rankings, then I'd completely understand. But not when we're judging both units on an individual basis.

 

That's expected. I believe that mine is easily in conversation, as I'm sure that others do as well about their defenses, which is why I'm not using mine as an example. I just personally don't at all see how your unit jumps ahead of some of the already well-established defenses.

SanFran has one of the best OL, but they also have a young Kaepernick who may also turn over the ball. Smith, while he's not going to be an All-Pro or probably not even a Pro Bowler, has been pretty damn good about ball security. Houston's not a slouch, but they just traded away their game manager in Matt Schaub. I realize this is a separate ranking for the opposite side of the ball. I'm not oblivious. I am saying that the offense & its scheme greatly impact the defense & its ranking. If you have an offense with poor ball security; a quick, up-tempo offense; an offense that can score easily; or an offense that can't run the ball then you're going to have some serious problems for your defense. This is football 101. 

 

My defense is very good. Is it elite? I'm not sure, but I'm not sure there are many elite defenses in this mock. The Niners have four cornerbacks, lmao. At least that's what his depth chart says. LOL I have no idea how that can be a top defense with four cornerbacks on the roster. Maybe if this was 1930 or something. He has no listed depth at OLB behind his two starters. Do I need to continue? No? I think I've made my case on the Niners.

 

The Texans could be a threat. They stayed the same & brought in some pieces at CB, LB, & NT. I have no idea how Peko will translate a 3-4 NT. 

 

I'll post more later.