Irrelevant's pre draft off-season report card!

[ed.s52]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366463661' post='1439170']
You're 100% right ([i]but I disagree that 16 QBs are better cause I think there are a bunch of guys in the league who are 2 tiers down from the Super Bowl winning QBs[/i]) and I was being a little extra I guess. But he should get the same criticism that the pundits gave to Joe. Then Joe went to Denver and matched the Broncos point for point plus 3. Plus he made the critical throws - again that 3rd and 13 to Pitta was PHENOMENAL.

But the guys you mentioned do suck and their teams aren't legitimate threats. Schaub played on a team that at one point was 11-1 last season and has been a competitive team each of the last few years. That's my main point - their team is good and capable and no matter how much better they get, he will be the bus driver. If they don't go far, blame is on him whether he "STINKS" or whether he is a Pro-bowler. I acknowledge his pro-bowl numbers but that's consolation for people who don't go deep in the playoffs. That's why I'm not a stats guy because you gotta make your play relevant when it need to be relevant.

Again I was overly harsh, but at the end of the day, who else can you say is holding that team back?

Let's not forget - Seattle and San Fran both beat New England. Both had QBs less experienced than Schaub; and YES both teams had defenses on par with Houstons; but both teams had QBs less experienced than Schaub
[/quote]

Seattle and San Fran did have QB's less experienced than Schuabs, but both teams are also stacked with talent (even moreso this year) and those QB's are easily top 10 material, and much better than Schuab.

While I think we've arrived at a point where we can agree about Schuab, and that he is one of the weak links on a supremely stacked Texans team, I would argue Schuab in a good year (which was not last year by any means) is still good enough to take them to a Super Bowl, especially if they are lucky enough to not face Denver and the Patriots (or the Ravens) in the two games past the wild card round.

Also, while the Texans are a team that could use an upgrade at QB, how will they do it? Elite QB's almost never hit the market. What happened with Manning was an exception, but even when guys like Brees or Favre hit the market they were either over the hill or hadn't proven that they could play at an elite level in this league (on top of a shoulder injury).

That said, their best option is the draft, but for a team that will go to the playoffs and likely win one game for the next couple years, what franchise signal caller will there be? Do they find an Aaron Rodgers or trade up to get a Joe Flacco? Not likely. Even if they did, history has shown it will take them at least a few years to be great impact players (the majority of those are taken high in the draft, like Manning, RG3, Luck, Ryan, etc. and almost never is anyone later than that thrown in a starting position early and plays at an above average level (the only recent exception to this rule would seem to be Russel Wilson, and no, Flacco was not above average in his rookie year).

So, barring a huge trade for a Peyton Manning (which would be a huge waste of picks anyway) or a trade up to the top of the draft (equally unlikely) Matt Schuab gives the Texans the best chance to win. Unless TJ Yates starts looking like a superstar in practice or Matt gets hurt, I just can't see the Texans going a different direction at QB.

It's the same reason the Cowboys unloaded their bank account for Romo. If they lose Romo, they will immediately be out of the playoff hunt. They may be good in a few years again afteer getting another signal caller, but Romo now gives them the best chance to win.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1366480120' post='1439383']
To be perfectly honest, I would take Alex Smith as my QB before Matt Schaub. Smith has more to his game and excels as a game manager, which they both are.
[/quote]

I'd agree. Smith has been nothing short of excellent during the Harbaugh era in San Fran. He exceeds at limiting interceptions, which is huge, and his accuracy is on point.

He doesn't have a huge arm, and he would fail in any vertical type of system, but I personally love QBs with high accuracy rates and low turnovers. Especially if you have good, playmaking YAC recievers, getting the ball in their hands is all you need to do as a QB.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1366480120' post='1439383']

To be perfectly honest, I would take Alex Smith as my QB before Matt Schaub. Smith has more to his game and excels as a game manager, which they both are.
[/quote]
Agreed. Not saying either one is special or anything though lol, but Schaub had the best receiver in the game for many years and couldn't do anything with it.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366477506' post='1439342']
Agree about Luck already beig better than Schaub. But did you see some of the throws RG3 made last year?
Top 15 QBs no particular order
Flacco,Rodgers,manning,Brady,manning,Brees,Roethlisburger,Cutler,luck,rg3,
Wilson,newton,rivers,romo,kaepernick. If you don't think he's a top 10 whatever but I think it's crazy to say he's not close to it lol

I don't know. Smith could be a perfect game manager. Reid is good with QB's too, it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
[/quote]
Cutler - aka Mr My Arm Is Stronger Than John Elway's And That's Why I Force The Ball Into Triple Coverage has all the tools but he's just way too undisciplined to be considered a top anything. Perhaps he needs to be paired with a seasoned QB Coach like a Jim Zorn or Caldwell. I want to give Romo props for his all around game regardless of his turnovers, but he could very well be Cutler's twin. Not sure what his issue is. One has NO receivers, the other has quality receivers. Maybe Cutler cracks a top something this year with their new offensive minded coach. Perhaps Dallas just needs to re-evaluate their Offensive Coordinator and I think they brought someone in for that this year.

I like Alex Smith in KC. They would do themselves a huge service by getting some help in the running game given that Smith isn't a deep ball guy. That Defense will be STOUT all season long - great corners, great linebackers, at least 1 All-Pro safety, I think last year they drafted a super sized NT that will probably get some time this year

But yes - Luck is a flippin MONSTER. If their cards fall right in this draft, the South is just as much theirs as it is Houston's

[ravensdan]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366477506' post='1439342']
Agree about Luck already beig better than Schaub. But did you see some of the throws RG3 made last year?
Top 15 QBs no particular order
Flacco,Rodgers,manning,Brady,manning,Brees,Roethlisburger,Cutler,luck,rg3,
Wilson,newton,rivers,romo,kaepernick. If you don't think he's a top 10 whatever but I think it's crazy to say he's not close to it lol

I don't know. Smith could be a perfect game manager. Reid is good with QB's too, it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
[/quote]

The reason I say RG3 is not close is because of his size and durability concerns for the style he is going to play. if he is going to play this style of game he should be measured like a running back. if there was a running back his size taking those type of hits and missing alot of time with injuries we would not put him at the top of the running back class. Just for the fun of it , here are my QB rankings...
[b]Tier 1 - Champions[/b]
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Drew Brees
3. Tom Brady
4. Eli Manning
5. Joe Flacco
6. Ben Roethlisburger (injury concerns drop him this low)
7. Peyton Manning (playoff wins are what count, and he doesn't have them)
[b]Tier 2 - Potential Champions[/b]
8. [color=#008000]Tony Romo[/color]
9. Matt Ryan
10. Russell Wilson
11. Andrew Luck
12. [color=#ff0000]Jay Cutler[/color]
13. Collin Kaepernick
[b]Tier 3 - Middle of the pack/Game managers/ limited[/b]
14. Matt Schaub
15. Alex Smith
16. Matthew Stafford
17. Cam Newton
18. Andy Dalton
19. Robert Griffin III
20. Phillip Rivers
21. Sam Bradford
22. [color=#ff0000]Carson Palmer[/color]
[b]Tier 3 - Needs improvement and or Needs Replaced[/b]
23. Mike Vick
24. [color=#008000]Josh Freeman[/color]
25. [color=#008000]Ryan Tannehill[/color]
26. Christian Ponder
27. Jake Locker
28. Mark Sanchez
29. Matt Flynn (or rookie)
30. Brandon Weeden
31.Blaine Gabbert
32.Bills QB (unknown)

Red Players have a good chance of dropping down a tier this year. Green players have a good chance of moving up a tier.

[Yatagarasu]

we already know 2/3 of the league has a quarterback, but the upcoming free agency or draft won't fill the need of the 1/3 of the league.

We're not here to argue about who's better or not.

We're grateful our QB proved to be the best by being a Super Bowl MVP. End of that. Now he has to continue his legacy by winning more. We hope for Flacco to be in the range of Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Then in a decade later, everyone looks up to Joe Cool.

[Gordo52]

Disagree completely ravensdan. But let's not highjack that irrelevant guys thread.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366496529' post='1439614']
Disagree completely ravensdan. But let's not highjack that irrelevant guys thread.
[/quote]
That could be my fault for delving into Matt Schaub's intangibles and shortcomings at length. I would however like to applaud [b]Ravensdan[/b] for not falling into the temptation of calling Matt Ryan anything more than what he is (tier 2) and at the same time jeer him for 1) putting RGIII all the way down in tier 3 and 2) putting Matt Ryan ahead of not only Andrew Luck but also Russell Wilson. ANYWAY...

Back to Irrelevant's thread, I like our team on paper. I think we are the mean nasty giant atop the AFC. I underscored the need for us getting a strong WR. I like the guys we have on the roster, but if they aren't really the answer, I hope we find one given that Jacoby Jones is nothing more than a glorified return man...running routes are not in his wheelhouse and while he caught 1 very important pass in the divisional and 1 very important pass in the Super Bowl, I would not be shocked if he led the team in drops or % drops to targets. Not sure what Irrelevant's overall grade was, but I think the fact that it's all people that can play a good solid role for a very reasonable and affordable price is awesome and deserving of an A. Would give an A+ if they hadn't cut @Crushboy31 aka Patriot Killer. That move still is wanting of reason. In my mind the best Strong Safety ever to play the game - Troy P, is in a class by himself. Not sure how many other strong safeties are NOT suspect in pass coverage at this particular moment in time or the last few years but if there's a better guy at that spot, I'm sure we will plug one in.

Also supporting my grade of A for the total offseason job would be the tweet I saw referencing that we got all those guys - Huff, Dumervill, McClain, plus Canty or Spears (but minus the other) for less than Cleveland got Kruger for the 5 years.

Steelers need a very healthy 16 game production from Troy, Ike, and 25 (can't think of his name) to be able to compete with us
Bungals - not buying
Browns - I'll believe when I see it
Chiefs - I like them like I've been saying. Flowers and Arenas on opposite sides. Hali and Dontario Poe coming from the side and middle or both up the middle. Eric Berry in the back. That's just tough
Broncos - I guess they can pose a threat with Manning pulling the trigger to Welker, Decker and Thomas. Never anything to be laughed at
Pats - always there because their silly division won't man up but they haven't had a complete team in a long time. Maybe a 2nd year for Hightower coincides with his transition into being their new Tedy Bruschi or Mike Vraebel or new Pats Enforcer. I think that man may be the determining factor of where that team goes because their D hasn't played like the dynasty years for a while now
South - we talked ad nauseum about Houston and Indy. While they both could pose a threat, 5 years of playoff experience plus super bowl = Championship Pedigree = confidence. But then there's Andrew Luck/JJ Watt.....

Not buying into the it's too hard to repeat as champs. You're either better than everybody else or you're not and while we have holes, the sum total is probably higher or close to those that have less holes

[ravensdan]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366496529' post='1439614']
Disagree completely ravensdan. But let's not highjack that irrelevant guys thread.
[/quote]

Ok send me a pm then. I love completely irrelevent debates like this.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366496529' post='1439614']
Disagree completely ravensdan. But let's not highjack that irrelevant guys thread.
[/quote]
That could be my fault for delving into Matt Schaub's intangibles and shortcomings at length. I would however like to applaud [b]Ravensdan[/b] for not falling into the temptation of calling Matt Ryan anything more than what he is (tier 2) and at the same time jeer him for 1) putting RGIII all the way down in tier 3 and 2) putting Matt Ryan ahead of not only Andrew Luck but also Russell Wilson. ANYWAY...

Back to Irrelevant's thread, I like our team on paper. I think we are the mean nasty giant atop the AFC. I underscored the need for us getting a strong WR. I like the guys we have on the roster, but if they aren't really the answer, I hope we find one given that Jacoby Jones is nothing more than a glorified return man...running routes are not in his wheelhouse and while he caught 1 very important pass in the divisional and 1 very important pass in the Super Bowl, I would not be shocked if he led the team in drops or % drops to targets. Not sure what Irrelevant's overall grade was, but I think the fact that it's all people that can play a good solid role for a very reasonable and affordable price is awesome and deserving of an A. Would give an A+ if they hadn't cut @Crushboy31 aka Patriot Killer. That move still is wanting of reason. In my mind the best Strong Safety ever to play the game - Troy P, is in a class by himself. Not sure how many other strong safeties are NOT suspect in pass coverage at this particular moment in time or the last few years but if there's a better guy at that spot, I'm sure we will plug one in.

Also supporting my grade of A for the total offseason job would be the tweet I saw referencing that we got all those guys - Huff, Dumervill, McClain, plus Canty or Spears (but minus the other) for less than Cleveland got Kruger for the 5 years.

Steelers need a very healthy 16 game production from Troy, Ike, and 25 (can't think of his name) as well as a healthy 16 game production from their offensive line (for once) to be able to win the division
Bungals - just not buying. They are good...ok really...but I'll have a better reason later
Browns - I'll believe when...or if I see it
Chiefs - I like them like I've been saying. Flowers and Arenas on opposite sides. Hali and Dontario Poe coming from the side and middle or both up the middle. Eric Berry in the back. That's just tough
Broncos - I guess they can pose a threat with Manning pulling the trigger to Welker, Decker and Thomas. Never anything to be laughed at
Pats - always there because their silly division won't man up but they haven't had a complete team in a long time. Maybe a 2nd year for Hightower coincides with his transition into being their new Tedy Bruschi or Mike Vraebel or new Pats Enforcer. I think that man may be the determining factor of where that team goes because their D hasn't played like the dynasty years for a while now
South - we talked ad nauseum about Houston and Indy. While they both could pose a threat, 5 years of playoff experience plus super bowl = Championship Pedigree = confidence. But then there's Andrew Luck/JJ Watt.....

Not buying into the it's too hard to repeat as champs. You're either better than everybody else or you're not and while we have holes, the sum total is probably higher or close to those that have less holes

[Gordo52]

[quote name='ravensdan' timestamp='1366499077' post='1439651']


Ok send me a pm then. I love completely irrelevent debates like this.
[/quote]
I will eventually when I'm more focused lol. Today is just one of them days..

[ravensdan]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366499104' post='1439654']

That could be my fault for delving into Matt Schaub's intangibles and shortcomings at length. I would however like to applaud [b]Ravensdan[/b] for not falling into the temptation of calling Matt Ryan anything more than what he is (tier 2) and at the same time jeer him for 1) putting RGIII all the way down in tier 3 and 2) putting Matt Ryan ahead of not only Andrew Luck but also Russell Wilson.
[/quote]

I explained my reasoning for bob griffin being so low. My ranking may have been a bit generous honestly. I think luck and Wilson can pass Ryan up this year but they are not there yet. And I didn't make them green because I don't think they will crack the championship tier this year.

[SecretAgentMan]

There. Rolando blew it. Updated!