Irrelevant's pre draft off-season report card!

[ravensdan]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1366329490' post='1437720']

Seattle is the best team in the NFL.

I think we did one hell of an offseason to work with......

I don't see repeat(it's hard to do.... We do have huge needs).

But we are going to field a good team this year.

The only teams I think are better are

Houston
Seattle
Denver
and maybe Cinci

I will give credit where credit is due.

But we are going to be dangerous in a few years!
[/quote]

Cincy? Really? No. Top 10 nfl pre draft:

1. Green bay
2. Seattle
3. Baltimore
4. New england
5. San fransico
6. Denver
7. Houston
8. Ny giants
9. Indianapolis
10. Chicago
Just missed...pittsbugh, cincy, new orleans, dallas, st louis

To me these are the only teams with any chance to make the playoffs.

[berad]

[quote name='nflfan123' timestamp='1366346874' post='1438083']
Cutting Pollard gets an F
Nothing they could do about Kruger or Ellerbe
Boldin should be a B- because they didn't have a choice
[/quote]

I'm harboring some personal feelings with the Q grade. It probably should be in the B range.

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1366347060' post='1438085']
I agree regarding Boldin but not Pollard.

Pollard was a good SS, but he didn't offer much in coverage. His best attributes were stopping the run, big hits, & pass rush. Without Ed Reed, he might have really been exposed. We also save 2.5M by doing it after June 1st.
[/quote]

Grim's reasoning is why the Pollard grade wasn't lower. The Ravens rarely regret not re-signing a player and I don't recall an instance where they made a mistake on outright cutting a guy. They deserve the benefit of the doubt for the foresight they've had.

[Yatagarasu]

Ozzie played free agency very well and I feel like we were able to replace most of our losses in free agency.

[Yatagarasu]

Can't wait on how we play draft

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1366387882' post='1438448']


I'm harboring some personal feelings with the Q grade. It probably should be in the B range.



Grim's reasoning is why the Pollard grade wasn't lower. The Ravens rarely regret not re-signing a player and I don't recall an instance where they made a mistake on outright cutting a guy. They deserve the benefit of the doubt for the foresight they've had.
[/quote]
The only guy I remember us cutting who made something of himself that I recall off the top of my head is James Harrison & I believe it took him time to even become the player he is today.

That's understandable. Q played really well for us, and finally showed us what he can do when he's not handcuffed. Sad to see him finally do what he was supposed to do the entire time he was here then get shown the door, lol. Still, we essentially traded Anquan Boldin for Michael Huff, Chris Canty, Rolando McClain & Elvis Dumervil. It's almost like Ozzie was playing Madden while other GMs played Tecmo Bowl (also good).

[Yatagarasu]

For the money we spent on these incoming free agents, I say Ozzie did one heck of a job.

Premier Pass Rushers like Dumervil can go up to double digit numbers, but then all the value of talented pass rushers are down because teams are saving their pockets on locking their franchise QBs long-term.

I'm surprised the Packers gave Clay Mathews up to $13 million per year when they knew the market was down across all positions. I bet the Bills are kicking themselves in the foot for locking Mario Williams for $16 million per year when they could've landed two or even three quality pass rushers for that price.

[Yatagarasu]

Also, the establishment of our franchise as an premier championship team gives Ozzie leverage on offering veterans that wants to play here for a reduced value. That type of reputation helps a lot for the team because all of the veterans that are coming in could've cashed more elsewhere.

I think this type of practice where we let our free agents walk if they want bigger money, and bring in veterans especially the ones that been cut and draft quality and quantity will set this team up for years to come. I feel Ozzie has this team in the right direction for a decade. That lesson learned from the 2000 years was a great lesson that trying to keep a Super Bowl winning team is hard, but making competitive teams every year is the better choice.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1366391684' post='1438509']
For the money we spent on these incoming free agents, I say Ozzie did one heck of a job.

Premier Pass Rushers like Dumervil can go up to double digit numbers, but then all the value of talented pass rushers are down because teams are saving their pockets on locking their franchise QBs long-term.

I'm surprised the Packers gave Clay Mathews up to $13 million per year when they knew the market was down across all positions. I bet the Bills are kicking themselves in the foot for locking Mario Williams for $16 million per year when they could've landed two or even three quality pass rushers for that price.
[/quote]
16M is a lot of dough. Speaking of which...

I wonder if something happens to Ngata's deal. Dude is set to make a ridiculous 16M in 2014 & 2015. I don't see that happening.

[Yatagarasu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1366392700' post='1438526']
16M is a lot of dough. Speaking of which...

I wonder if something happens to Ngata's deal. Dude is set to make a ridiculous 16M in 2014 & 2015. I don't see that happening.
[/quote]

Probably an extension, but Ngata has been racking up injuries and I read somewhere that he might retire earlier than expected. Probably early 30s, so this might be his last big contract. No reason to continue to put your body in harm's way when you got paid and got a ring.

[Yatagarasu]

Ngata is amazing, but he couldn't solve the ineffectiveness of our Terrence Cody or Maake Kemoeatu, which made our D-line look weaker than ever. I say Ozzie will be wiser before giving players huge contracts unless they're the best of the best. Ngata proved his worth by being the best NT in the business and wrecked the Steelers himself in 2011 season opener.

[Yatagarasu]

$12 million per year for Ngata is a lot, but it's not overpaying like Mario Williams or Julius Peppers.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1366329490' post='1437720']
Seattle is the best team in the NFL.

I think we did one hell of an offseason to work with......

I don't see repeat(it's hard to do.... We do have huge needs).

But we are going to field a good team this year.

The only teams I think are better are

Houston
Seattle
Denver
and maybe Cinci

I will give credit where credit is due.

But we are going to be dangerous in a few years!
[/quote]
You may have lost all your legitimacy when you said Houston after the phrase "better than us". I promise you - Houston could have 15 all pros and they would still go nowhere. You know why - because of Matt Schaub. Garbage. Horrible. I hate him. This is not a result of a fantasy gripe. It is from watching what seemed to be 0 improvement between New England game #1 and 2. Just plain awful. That's the team that really needs to think about getting themselves a signal caller. Right now they have a false sense of security with him back there and could just go on and one. But I think you get the picture and I think that if you could analyze all our off season moves the way you did, you likely have some key insight to find a lot of reason in what I'm saying. Heck - how on earth do you go from 11-1 to a #3 seed in 4 weeks? Somebody has to rally the troops. You only had the DPoy on your team with other great defensive players. I will say they are better because Brian Cushing will be back, but just as his season ended abrupbtly, so to could that of another of his teammates.

I don't buy the Houston hype. Show me first...

[billick]

Why was [b]Micheal Huff FS not called "[/b]the dude ".

Everyone else was.

[Yatagarasu]

Houston can be better, but New England owns their butts. Every time those two meet, the game is over by halftime. Houston lacks the defense to combat the Patriots TE/RB pass game since they're ILBs aren't very good. If they can draft a couple along with a 2nd WR, then I might think about them as a big threat.

[Yatagarasu]

[quote name='billick' timestamp='1366398220' post='1438623']
Why was [b]Micheal Huff FS not called "[/b]the dude ".

Everyone else was.
[/quote]

Cause winter is coming...

[reediddy]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366395042' post='1438577']
You may have lost all your legitimacy when you said Houston after the phrase "better than us". I promise you - Houston could have 15 all pros and they would still go nowhere. You know why - because of Matt Schaub. Garbage. Horrible. I hate him. [b]This is not a result of a fantasy gripe[/b]. It is from watching what seemed to be 0 improvement between New England game #1 and 2. Just plain awful. That's the team that really needs to think about getting themselves a signal caller. Right now they have a false sense of security with him back there and could just go on and one. But I think you get the picture and I think that if you could analyze all our off season moves the way you did, you likely have some key insight to find a lot of reason in what I'm saying. Heck - how on earth do you go from 11-1 to a #3 seed in 4 weeks? Somebody has to rally the troops. You only had the DPoy on your team with other great defensive players. I will say they are better because Brian Cushing will be back, but just as his season ended abrupbtly, so to could that of another of his teammates.

I don't buy the Houston hype. Show me first...
[/quote]

Maybe a little...?

[ed.s52]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366395042' post='1438577']
You may have lost all your legitimacy when you said Houston after the phrase "better than us". I promise you - Houston could have 15 all pros and they would still go nowhere. You know why - because of Matt Schaub. Garbage. Horrible. I hate him. This is not a result of a fantasy gripe. It is from watching what seemed to be 0 improvement between New England game #1 and 2. Just plain awful. That's the team that really needs to think about getting themselves a signal caller. Right now they have a false sense of security with him back there and could just go on and one. But I think you get the picture and I think that if you could analyze all our off season moves the way you did, you likely have some key insight to find a lot of reason in what I'm saying. Heck - how on earth do you go from 11-1 to a #3 seed in 4 weeks? Somebody has to rally the troops. You only had the DPoy on your team with other great defensive players. I will say they are better because Brian Cushing will be back, but just as his season ended abrupbtly, so to could that of another of his teammates.

I don't buy the Houston hype. Show me first...
[/quote]

Scuab is not elite by any means, but he is a fine QB. Not every team can have a top 10 QB (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Rothlisberger, Wilson, RG3, Ryan). However, the Texans make up for it with a quality roster in every position besides the WR2 spot.

In terms of leading the Texans to the promised land, I'd say he has a better chance than most of the teams in the NFL. The eight teams with a top 10 QB above besides Rothlisberger,Brees, and RG3 all have a better chance in my opinion, but outside of that I don't see many contenders better than the Texans with QBs better than Schuab.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1366398327' post='1438626']
Houston can be better, but New England owns their butts. Every time those two meet, the game is over by halftime. Houston lacks the defense to combat the Patriots TE/RB pass game since they're ILBs aren't very good. If they can draft a couple along with a 2nd WR, then I might think about them as a big threat.
[/quote]
[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1366398556' post='1438632']
Maybe a little...?
[/quote]
[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1366400499' post='1438677']
Scuab is not elite by any means, but he is a fine QB. Not every team can have a top 10 QB (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco, Kaepernick, Rothlisberger, Wilson, RG3, Ryan). However, the Texans make up for it with a quality roster in every position besides the WR2 spot.

In terms of leading the Texans to the promised land, I'd say he has a better chance than most of the teams in the NFL. The eight teams with a top 10 QB above besides Rothlisberger,Brees, and RG3 all have a better chance in my opinion, but outside of that I don't see many contenders better than the Texans with QBs better than Schuab.
[/quote]
Schuab STINKS! So I like their defense with Brian Cushing coming back off injury. Would be interesting to see what they do in the draft. But Schaub STINKS. Like mentioned above - the Houston defense has trouble with Pats O. So what is going to happen in a hypothetical situation where they meet in the playoffs. Like mentioned already, if you like Roethlisberger a whole lot better, what happens when Houston and Pitt play? I think our offense will be better with a full off-season and 16 games with Jim Caldwell so I like our chances against them in a hypothetical situation where we play them in the playoffs and I like most good defenses against Matt Schaub. Again, we'll see where they go in the draft and then I might have a different opinion.

As far as other "contenders" that they could hypothetically play, I think KC will turn the corner because they have a STOUT defense with Eric Berry, Flowers, Hali just to name a few. That team on paper, we already know has gotten better with Alex Smith (I can see him finding Moeaki all game long) and they will get better with the draft. If Denver remains in the hunt, that's 2 teams from AFC West that I'm not sold the Texans, on paper today, can manage to play +1 in a 60 minute game.

As far as Cincy - JJ Watt vs Andy Dalton goes back to the 2011 Rose Bowl when Watt didn't really make a play and TCU beat Wisconsin by 2 points (I was in the stands...salty). But the last 2 times they have played, Watt has come up big and I don't think that changes. I think they win their division because Colts over-achieved last year and they swap places with KC for playoffs (they might steal it from the Bengals, they could steal it from Pitt, they could take it from us). I just don't see them as getting over the hump UNLESS Ed Reed really makes a difference back there and after 3 seasons or whatever it was of him talking about [i]I might retire [/i]and several seasons of wondering if he will get up limping after intercepting a gutsy throw, I don't know with confidence that he will shut the back end off or be there to do that. If he is, then Houston's pass rush will have a hey day on every team, and Cushing plus a potential 1st or 2nd round draft help and the rest of the D gives them a legitimate shot.

My point is that on paper, they are menacing. I understand the game is not played on paper. I think other teams have a sum of the whole that is greater than Houston's because of Schaub. Think of 2003 - 2008 Baltimore Defense and Offense. I think the 2009 team we had was good enough, as was the 2011 team, 2010 not so much. It was all about offense for us this year..they got it done. I just remember seeing the exact same thing in both New England games where Schaub missed every 3rd down throw, he was missing most of his 2nd down throws. 2nd game was a carbon copy of the first. Can't really blame their defense that much cause while Wade Phillips isn't exotic, his players are always solid enough to give you a shot at winning.

[b]I never write super long replies like this, but there's a lot to say on this one[/b]

[Yatagarasu]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/matt-schaub/

Well they're stuck with him for another four more years.

If they go no where, I wonder if the Texans are going to eat his $17,500,000 signing bonus and send him off somewhere.

According to the contract, they might entertain a trade in before the 2015, where his cap is $17 million.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366409040' post='1438832']
Schuab STINKS! So I like their defense with Brian Cushing coming back off injury. Would be interesting to see what they do in the draft. But Schaub STINKS. Like mentioned above - the Houston defense has trouble with Pats O. So what is going to happen in a hypothetical situation where they meet in the playoffs. Like mentioned already, if you like Roethlisberger a whole lot better, what happens when Houston and Pitt play? I think our offense will be better with a full off-season and 16 games with Jim Caldwell so I like our chances against them in a hypothetical situation where we play them in the playoffs and I like most good defenses against Matt Schaub. Again, we'll see where they go in the draft and then I might have a different opinion.

As far as other "contenders" that they could hypothetically play, I think KC will turn the corner because they have a STOUT defense with Eric Berry, Flowers, Hali just to name a few. That team on paper, we already know has gotten better with Alex Smith (I can see him finding Moeaki all game long) and they will get better with the draft. If Denver remains in the hunt, that's 2 teams from AFC West that I'm not sold the Texans, on paper today, can manage to play +1 in a 60 minute game.

As far as Cincy - JJ Watt vs Andy Dalton goes back to the 2011 Rose Bowl when Watt didn't really make a play and TCU beat Wisconsin by 2 points (I was in the stands...salty). But the last 2 times they have played, Watt has come up big and I don't think that changes. I think they win their division because Colts over-achieved last year and they swap places with KC for playoffs (they might steal it from the Bengals, they could steal it from Pitt, they could take it from us). I just don't see them as getting over the hump UNLESS Ed Reed really makes a difference back there and after 3 seasons or whatever it was of him talking about [i]I might retire [/i]and several seasons of wondering if he will get up limping after intercepting a gutsy throw, I don't know with confidence that he will shut the back end off or be there to do that. If he is, then Houston's pass rush will have a hey day on every team, and Cushing plus a potential 1st or 2nd round draft help and the rest of the D gives them a legitimate shot.

My point is that on paper, they are menacing. I understand the game is not played on paper. I think other teams have a sum of the whole that is greater than Houston's because of Schaub. Think of 2003 - 2008 Baltimore Defense and Offense. I think the 2009 team we had was good enough, as was the 2011 team, 2010 not so much. It was all about offense for us this year..they got it done. I just remember seeing the exact same thing in both New England games where Schaub missed every 3rd down throw, he was missing most of his 2nd down throws. 2nd game was a carbon copy of the first. Can't really blame their defense that much cause while Wade Phillips isn't exotic, his players are always solid enough to give you a shot at winning.

[b]I never write super long replies like this, but there's a lot to say on this one[/b]
[/quote]

Why do you think he stinks so much? I'm not saying he's great, he might not even be in the top half in the league (adding Newtonn, Luck, Dalton, Romo, Cutler, and Rivers to the previous list).

But he's at least an average quarterback. If you don't think so, at least throw out some statistics to support that viewpoint.

[easternshore97]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1366409615' post='1438841']
Why do you think he stinks so much? I'm not saying he's great, he might not even be in the top half in the league (adding Newtonn, Luck, Dalton, Romo, Cutler, and Rivers to the previous list).

But he's at least an average quarterback. If you don't think so, at least throw out some statistics to support that viewpoint.
[/quote]
I refuse to sell any story based on stats because people take them out of context and don't acknowledge that stats are made up of 10 other players plus the other team's shortcomings or strengths. If you are playing the Jags 2x's a year, you better beat them. The Jags have the same salary cap as every other NFL team, so I'm not slighting them, but they aren't competitive. If you play the Titans 2x's a year, you should beat them both times because they seem to lack talent (speaking of recent years). You should at least split with Colts. So that's 5 wins there. Avg to sub-par competition.

You now play the Broncos and Pats. Make some flipping plays to give your team a shot. At the end of the day, your QB is going to be scrutinized until he beats comparable teams on a consistent basis. They beat Pitt last season but they should have beat them.

I guess you are pulling my card cause all I have to reference is those 2 New England games - my argument is a broken record. But you gotta beat teams that are as good, or at least play well enough so that people know you can compete with more than just the 3-13 and 4-12 teams. You can't let them take away your run game AND THEN proceed to take your pass away. Know what I mean? Look at the throw that Joe made to Pitta in that Denver game on 3rd and 13 backed up on the goal line or the one to Torrey on the 1st TD or even the 2nd. You gotta be poise to make that happen. Don't think Schaub has that in him. Teams will play Houston and they will say we are either going to take Foster out of the game, or we are going to take everyone else out of the game. And Texans know that that's coming in every game they play - you, the QB has gotta be ready for that.

I'm not one to take somebody else's argument, but I remember that Monday night game in Houston when Steve Young mentioned that Houston should win the game with Schaub, and then when the game was over, he said the game didn't tell him anything about Baltimore, nor did it tell him anything about Houston other than 2 teams that should be better than what they showed. Still same story with that guy

[ravensdan]

I believe the colts will pass by houston this year. Luck is already better than schaub.

Rg3 is not a top 10 qb or even close.

Kc will be limited by their qb as well.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366411600' post='1438875']
I refuse to sell any story based on stats because people take them out of context and don't acknowledge that stats are made up of 10 other players plus the other team's shortcomings or strengths. If you are playing the Jags 2x's a year, you better beat them. The Jags have the same salary cap as every other NFL team, so I'm not slighting them, but they aren't competitive. If you play the Titans 2x's a year, you should beat them both times because they seem to lack talent (speaking of recent years). You should at least split with Colts. So that's 5 wins there. Avg to sub-par competition.

You now play the Broncos and Pats. Make some flipping plays to give your team a shot. At the end of the day, your QB is going to be scrutinized until he beats comparable teams on a consistent basis. They beat Pitt last season but they should have beat them.

I guess you are pulling my card cause all I have to reference is those 2 New England games - my argument is a broken record. But you gotta beat teams that are as good, or at least play well enough so that people know you can compete with more than just the 3-13 and 4-12 teams. You can't let them take away your run game AND THEN proceed to take your pass away. Know what I mean? Look at the throw that Joe made to Pitta in that Denver game on 3rd and 13 backed up on the goal line or the one to Torrey on the 1st TD or even the 2nd. You gotta be poise to make that happen. Don't think Schaub has that in him. Teams will play Houston and they will say we are either going to take Foster out of the game, or we are going to take everyone else out of the game. And Texans know that that's coming in every game they play - you, the QB has gotta be ready for that.

I'm not one to take somebody else's argument, but I remember that Monday night game in Houston when Steve Young mentioned that Houston should win the game with Schaub, and then when the game was over, he said the game didn't tell him anything about Baltimore, nor did it tell him anything about Houston other than 2 teams that should be better than what they showed. Still same story with that guy
[/quote]

To be fair, they did beat the Bengals, Broncos, Bears and us.

I'm not saying He is a great QB, but it is hard to get an elite (or even a top 10) QB in this league. I already gave you 16 QB's I thought were better than Schaub (or at least could be argued to be better) and I haven't even included the likes of Freeman, Stafford, A.Smith, Tannehill, Vick etc who at least could be argued to be better than him although most would disagree excluding Stafford. I also agree Schuab hasn't won them a lot of big games.

But he doesn't suck. Suck is at least below average if not worse, and Schuab, while he hasnt put his team on his back too many times like some of the QB's in this league, is at least a reliable starter who will have twice as many touchdowns as interceptions and consistently hit 4000 yards passing with a rating of 90+. Every one of the last 5 years he's had a QB rating over 90. For that to qualify as sucking means guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Manning must be simply good Qbs rather than Elite future HOFers.

Gabbert sucks. Sanchez sucks. Brady Quinn sucks. Schuab is a reliable starter who many teams wish they could have and who could have saved the jobs of many GMs.

[SecretAgentMan]

Defensive Grades.

(My major homer-ism here).

Our Dline is scary.

Canty- Spears
Ngata- Cody
Jones-Mcphee

A brilliant combo of Veteran experience, young talent, and Star power as the starters.

Spears is a starting caliber dlinemen, Mcphee has a nose for getting to the QB, and Cody is ok vs the run.

The depth on the line is very impressive. The starters have two very good players, and an all pro.

We will defiantly not be giving up four yards a carry this season. We have one of the best dlines in all of football.


LB Corps.

OLB we are set at.

Suggs is a former DPOY. He can do everything well. Rush the passer, stop the run, you name it. He can do it. He is coming back at full health with an entire season to recover.

Jameel McClain is a very solid, not spectacular MLB. We can improve here.

Rolando McClain was a can't miss prospect for a reason. He is athletically gifted, but quit on his team in Oakland. His ceiling is all pro, his floor is Brian Urlacher last year.

Now. The biggest steal of the offseason. [b]Elvis Dumervil.[/b]. The pass rushing technician. This guy is a complete upgrade over Kruger. He will make us forget about him.

Suggs at Full health + new All pro pass rusher.

Awesome. Just awesome.

In the wings, we have young Courtney Upshaw. Great vs the run, and now has two great mentors for him at OLB.

We could use more depth. The weakness of the D is the lack of coverage ability from the LB corps.

Our front seven has turned into one of the best in all of the NFL

The secondary is just as good.


I do not see why people are saying CB is a "dire need".

Webb is a shutdown CB. Like Suggs, he is coming back. He has had a full year to rest. He takes away half of the field.
Jimmy is a wildcard. He is as inconsistent as the weather.
One game he shuts down his man, the next he sucks.
When he gets going, there is no getting past him.

Graham was very effective in the slot last season. He earned himself a job, and a possible extension.

Brown, was also very impressive last year.

Asa I hear is good in coverage.

Johnson had one good game, and a big play vs the Steelers.

Huff can play CB if needed.

How are we depleted? We lost Cary. Big whoop. I was his biggest critic, and was glad to see him leave.

FS we are set.
Huff is a very good FS. Possibly an upgrade from Reed last season.

SS is a need, but James I can hold it down for 4 games I think. Thompson is good.

Overall, our D could have some improvements (we could draft another CB that is bigger, and move Webb to the slot full time)

We should be a top ten unit next year imho.

[SecretAgentMan]

Our biggest needs are
LT
WR
SS.
Coverage MLB.
CB

12 draft picks....

[easternshore97]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1366417023' post='1438923']
To be fair, they did beat the Bengals, Broncos, Bears and us.

I'm not saying He is a great QB, but it is hard to get an elite (or even a top 10) QB in this league. I already gave you 16 QB's I thought were better than Schaub (or at least could be argued to be better) and I haven't even included the likes of Freeman, Stafford, A.Smith, Tannehill, Vick etc who at least could be argued to be better than him although most would disagree excluding Stafford. I also agree Schuab hasn't won them a lot of big games.

But he doesn't suck. Suck is at least below average if not worse, and Schuab, while he hasnt put his team on his back too many times like some of the QB's in this league, is at least a reliable starter who will have twice as many touchdowns as interceptions and consistently hit 4000 yards passing with a rating of 90+. Every one of the last 5 years he's had a QB rating over 90. For that to qualify as sucking means guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Manning must be simply good Qbs rather than Elite future HOFers.

Gabbert sucks. Sanchez sucks. Brady Quinn sucks. Schuab is a reliable starter who many teams wish they could have and who could have saved the jobs of many GMs.
[/quote]
You're 100% right ([i]but I disagree that 16 QBs are better cause I think there are a bunch of guys in the league who are 2 tiers down from the Super Bowl winning QBs[/i]) and I was being a little extra I guess. But he should get the same criticism that the pundits gave to Joe. Then Joe went to Denver and matched the Broncos point for point plus 3. Plus he made the critical throws - again that 3rd and 13 to Pitta was PHENOMENAL.

But the guys you mentioned do suck and their teams aren't legitimate threats. Schaub played on a team that at one point was 11-1 last season and has been a competitive team each of the last few years. That's my main point - their team is good and capable and no matter how much better they get, he will be the bus driver. If they don't go far, blame is on him whether he "STINKS" or whether he is a Pro-bowler. I acknowledge his pro-bowl numbers but that's consolation for people who don't go deep in the playoffs. That's why I'm not a stats guy because you gotta make your play relevant when it need to be relevant.

Again I was overly harsh, but at the end of the day, who else can you say is holding that team back?

Let's not forget - Seattle and San Fran both beat New England. Both had QBs less experienced than Schaub; and YES both teams had defenses on par with Houstons; but both teams had QBs less experienced than Schaub

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='easternshore97' timestamp='1366395042' post='1438577']
You may have lost all your legitimacy when you said Houston after the phrase "better than us". I promise you - Houston could have 15 all pros and they would still go nowhere. You know why - because of Matt Schaub. Garbage. Horrible. I hate him. This is not a result of a fantasy gripe. It is from watching what seemed to be 0 improvement between New England game #1 and 2. Just plain awful. That's the team that really needs to think about getting themselves a signal caller. Right now they have a false sense of security with him back there and could just go on and one. But I think you get the picture and I think that if you could analyze all our off season moves the way you did, you likely have some key insight to find a lot of reason in what I'm saying. Heck - how on earth do you go from 11-1 to a #3 seed in 4 weeks? Somebody has to rally the troops. You only had the DPoy on your team with other great defensive players. I will say they are better because Brian Cushing will be back, but just as his season ended abrupbtly, so to could that of another of his teammates.

I don't buy the Houston hype. Show me first...
[/quote]
The QB for Houston is average. Good enough to get them to the playoffs. Not for much else.

Houston has a damn talented team.
Foster is the second best RB
Daniels is a good TE
Andre Johnson is a primer WR

If they had a great QB, they would prob be unbeatable.

That Defense is stacked though

Great secondary, JJ Watt, Cushing, Reed. So much talent there.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='ravensdan' timestamp='1366416932' post='1438922']
I believe the colts will pass by houston this year. Luck is already better than schaub.

Rg3 is not a top 10 qb or even close.

Kc will be limited by their qb as well.
[/quote]
Agree about Luck already beig better than Schaub. But did you see some of the throws RG3 made last year?
Top 15 QBs no particular order
Flacco,Rodgers,manning,Brady,manning,Brees,Roethlisburger,Cutler,luck,rg3,
Wilson,newton,rivers,romo,kaepernick. If you don't think he's a top 10 whatever but I think it's crazy to say he's not close to it lol

I don't know. Smith could be a perfect game manager. Reid is good with QB's too, it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1366477506' post='1439342']

Agree about Luck already beig better than Schaub. But did you see some of the throws RG3 made last year?
Top 15 QBs no particular order
Flacco,Rodgers,manning,Brady,manning,Brees,Roethlisburger,Cutler,luck,rg3,
Wilson,newton,rivers,romo,kaepernick. If you don't think he's a top 10 whatever but I think it's crazy to say he's not close to it lol

I don't know. Smith could be a perfect game manager. Reid is good with QB's too, it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
[/quote]
To be perfectly honest, I would take Alex Smith as my QB before Matt Schaub. Smith has more to his game and excels as a game manager, which they both are.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1366480120' post='1439383']
To be perfectly honest, I would take Alex Smith as my QB before Matt Schaub. Smith has more to his game and excels as a game manager, which they both are.
[/quote]
IDK. Smith has a limited arm.