Bryan Hall switching to ILB

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365281884' post='1426753']

Smith actually had very good hips, other than that you ate spot on. He isn't safety material.
[/quote]
I was wondering what the Hell happened to Spot from the "See Spot Run" books! Now I know he ate him.

In all seriousness, though, just as with Webb to FS it makes no sense to move a CB to S when Smith's best attribute would be negated by the transition.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365281884' post='1426753']
Smith actually has very good hips, other than that you are spot on. He isn't safety material.
[/quote]

[gabefergy]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365282597' post='1426762']
I was wondering what the Hell happened to Spot from the "See Spot Run" books! Now I know he ate him.

In all seriousness, though, just as with Webb to FS it makes no sense to move a CB to S when Smith's best attribute would be negated by the transition.
[/quote]

I hate typing on my mobile.

Yup. I feel the same about moving Upshaw inside. He is an absolute beast at setting the edge and making plays against the run. Reading and reacting on the inside is a completely different talent. I think there is a very good chance Upshaw stays on the field more on obvious passing downs, either as a blitzing LB, DL, or even dropping into zone coverage. A permanent switch to ILB I cant see happening though.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365284137' post='1426773']
I hate typing on my mobile.

Yup. I feel the same about moving Upshaw inside. He is an absolute beast at setting the edge and making plays against the run. Reading and reacting on the inside is a completely different talent. I think there is a very good chance Upshaw stays on the field more on obvious passing downs, either as a blitzing LB, DL, or even dropping into zone coverage. A permanent switch to ILB I cant see happening though.
[/quote]
Lol, same here. I knew it was a mobile culprit. It happens all the time to me. Really sucks, especially when your "cursor" jumps around on you, making you go and re-select the location of typing.

I agree regarding Upshaw. It seems a waste of his talent permanently. Temporarily & in certain sets, why not? I just can't see it as a permanent position.

I'll use the Maserati example McKinnie started. You buy a Maserati. Well, you sure don't go 55MPH, or else that's a complete waste of a car. You might as well bought a BMW or a Lexus.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365285280' post='1426780']
Lol, same here. I knew it was a mobile culprit. It happens all the time to me. Really sucks, especially when your "cursor" jumps around on you, making you go and re-select the location of typing.

[b]I agree regarding Upshaw. It seems a waste of his talent permanently. Temporarily & in certain sets, why not? I just can't see it as a permanent position.[/b]

I'll use the Maserati example McKinnie started. You buy a Maserati. Well, you sure don't go 55MPH, or else that's a complete waste of a car. You might as well bought a BMW or a Lexus.
[/quote]
I agree. Moving him inside will be the exact same mistake we made with Kruger, taking him away from the edge and the space he works well in. He couldn't function at the DE spot, something I couldn't really understand because I liked the idea of moving him inside to the old Pryce position but in the end we essentially wasted more than a year of Kruger's career.

We can't make that same mistake with Upshaw. We simply can't. Especially when Suggs is 31 and Dumervil is 30. Upshaw is the future at OLB and he needs to be damned ready to step in full time when his number is called.

[codizzle]

https://twitter.com/coachzbarbados/status/320737802021138432

Pic of bryan hall today from trip they were on .. He's trimming those pounds

[rmw10]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1365307449' post='1427021']
https://twitter.com/coachzbarbados/status/320737802021138432

Pic of bryan hall today from trip they were on .. He's trimming those pounds
[/quote]

That's crazy and pure dedication right there.

[ellicottraven]

I just admire the kid's courage! To drop 25 lbs in like a couple of months shows dedication and a passion to play! That is what we want at ILB anyway! Go Bryan Hall - make it happen!

[The Raven]

That's what I'm talkin' about man! This dude is a Raven. He's lookin' pretty lean and mean right now.

[Gordo52]

It's encouraging to see him looking a lot thinner. I still have some doubts though, but I'd love for him to prove me wrong. It's going to be very interesting following this throughout the offseason.

I don't think this affects us with the draft. I still think we draft 2 IlB's. we still lost 3.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1365335402' post='1427093']
It's encouraging to see him looking a lot thinner. I still have some doubts though, but I'd love for him to prove me wrong. It's going to be very interesting following this throughout the offseason.

I don't think this affects us with the draft. I still think we draft 2 IlB's. we still lost 3.
[/quote]

Drafting two ILB's sounds good and having 12 picks definitely makes it seem possible. But i'm not sure it happens. There is something about Ozzie and the ILB position. McClain, McClellan, Bynes, Carr, B.A., Ellerbe, were all undrafted. Then you look at Hall, McClain, McClellan and you can even say B.A were guys who were converted into ILBs. B.A was always a LB but was viewed as nothing more then a ST player. Ozzie and the Ravens seem more then willing to allow guys to develop into good players at ILB.

Now was this because he felt any player could develop next to Ray? Is it because having a strong Dline and good OLBs setting the edges makes above average ILBs play even better? I'm not sure but I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see Bynes and Carr get a real shot.

I can really see Ozzie drafting a talent like Te'o or Minter and then allowing the guys already on the roster to round out the position. I think losing Ray and Ellerbe makes people think ILB is a huge need, but as we have seen with the CB situation Ozzie won't overreact to a perceived position of need. He'll just continue to add solid players until he can find that stud.

[Fred Sanford]

Always liked the guy in the limited opportunities he had. Seemed to be an active player, good motor, always trying to make plays type. That can lead to overpursuing or shooting wrong gap or too early, but real interested to see how it turns out. Chances are nothing comes of it, but who knows.

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365185708' post='1425790']


I'll let you know after training camp...



No way. His tackling is suspect, he is terrible in zone coverage, he's not as good at off-man as he is at press, and he can't flip his hips to save his life. He is an outside cornerback and nothing else.
[/quote]

nonsense.

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365391164' post='1427639']
nonsense.
[/quote]

Really? Jimmy's struggles with zone coverage are well documented. He does struggle with off-man coverage. He isn't the best at covering the deep ball. This season, he was not a good tackler. What part of that was nonsense?

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365391430' post='1427644']


Really? Jimmy's struggles with zone coverage are well documented. He does struggle with off-man coverage. He isn't the best at covering the deep ball. This season, he was not a good tackler. What part of that was nonsense?
[/quote]

His hips are loose, he transitions well. The sports hernia surgery probably set him back a good bit. Hes a hard hitter, I don't doubt that for a second. When he Plays with confidence, he's very much a tackler. Each time he starts progressing, an injury pops up. Hes a playmaker, I really think that. Hes got excellent balls skills and closing speed . He has the frame to add 15 lbs. I don't see him as a FS ... but a SS? Yup. If Pollard can make a living doing it, so could Jimmy.

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365391824' post='1427645']
His hips are loose, he transitions well. The sports hernia surgery probably set him back a good bit. Hes a hard hitter, I don't doubt that for a second. When he Plays with confidence, he's very much a tackler. Each time he starts progressing, an injury pops up. Hes a playmaker, I really think that. Hes got excellent balls skills and closing speed . He has the frame to add 15 lbs. I don't see him as a FS ... but a SS? Yup. If Pollard can make a living doing it, so could Jimmy.
[/quote]

His inability to effectively defend the deep ball makes me believe that either his hips are tight or he's just incapable of reading the route.

I'm a fan of Jimmy. I'm a big fan. But what I see right now is an inconsistent tackler who can't play zone. When he's on, he's a dominant corner. But when he's off, he is atrocious!

Could he play strong safety? Sure, I guess. He's not typically the biggest hitter. He's not the most sound tackler. He's not the best in off or zone coverage. But, he could play the position somewhat well. The biggest reason I don't want to move him to strong safety is because that takes away his best attribute: press coverage.

[indianstick]

Watching bryan hall play ILB in the second half of the last preseason game against the rams was a little comical only because he was 290 pounds, but if he can get under 260 (which it sounds like he is or will be) i don't see anything comical about it.

[H8R]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365396744' post='1427669']


His inability to effectively defend the deep ball makes me believe that either his hips are tight or he's just incapable of reading the route.

I'm a fan of Jimmy. I'm a big fan. But what I see right now is an inconsistent tackler who can't play zone. When he's on, he's a dominant corner. But when he's off, he is atrocious!

Could he play strong safety? Sure, I guess. He's not typically the biggest hitter. He's not the most sound tackler. He's not the best in off or zone coverage. But, he could play the position somewhat well. The biggest reason I don't want to move him to strong safety is because that takes away his best attribute: press coverage.
[/quote]

I think the deep part part of it, was honestly not being on the same page as the rest of the starters that get much more playing time. The kid has basically had a season of games (if that) Hes made big plays in the playoffs. That INT he had in NE in the AFCCG 2 years ago was awesome. He also was the one to blast Crabtree's face off in the Bowl to break up that pass on the right sideline.

Once he trusts his body and technique and just plays ball, he'll be a very good player. You say he's no good in zone, but really how many chances has he had to master that? He needs more playing time.

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365422087' post='1427739']
I think the deep part part of it, was honestly not being on the same page as the rest of the starters that get much more playing time. The kid has basically had a season of games (if that) Hes made big plays in the playoffs. That INT he had in NE in the AFCCG 2 years ago was awesome. He also was the one to blast Crabtree's face off in the Bowl to break up that pass on the right sideline.

Once he trusts his body and technique and just plays ball, he'll be a very good player. You say he's no good in zone, but really how many chances has he had to master that? He needs more playing time.
[/quote]

Fair enough. I give credit where credit was due, and he was a beast throughout the entire post season. I know he needs more playing time to get better at zone, but that doesn't change the fact that[b] right now[/b], he is bad at playing in zone.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365432083' post='1427822']


Fair enough. I give credit where credit was due, and he was a beast throughout the entire post season. I know he needs more playing time to get better at zone, but that doesn't change the fact that[b] right now[/b], he is bad at playing in zone.
[/quote]
Smith has shutdown CB potential. No matter what the argument is, there's no reason to move a CB who excels in press coverage from that position unless you are insanely deep at the position, which we aren't. Graham's a free agent next year if not extended, which looks doubtful. We have Webb. Why move Smith to FS or SS? It makes no sense to me. You just don't move a CB whose strength is press to safety, essentially removing his best attribute.

That's like me buying a Ferrari & not going above 40MPH. What the Hell is the point of me spending all that money to drive 40MPH?

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365432747' post='1427831']
Smith has shutdown CB potential. No matter what the argument is, there's no reason to move a CB who excels in press coverage from that position unless you are insanely deep at the position, which we aren't. Graham's a free agent next year if not extended, which looks doubtful. We have Webb. Why move Smith to FS or SS? It makes no sense to me. You just don't move a CB whose strength is press to safety, essentially removing his best attribute.

That's like me buying a Ferrari & not going above 40MPH. What the Hell is the point of me spending all that money to drive 40MPH?
[/quote]

Exactly. It's nonsensical. This Jimmy Smith discussion isn't relevant to the topic, so let's bring it back to Bryan Hall.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365446991' post='1427961']
Exactly. It's nonsensical. This Jimmy Smith discussion isn't relevant to the topic, so let's bring it back to Bryan Hall.
[/quote]
Very true. Personally, I was impressed that a man as big as he was could move as well as he did in preseason against the Rams. I think he may be a surprise candidate to really make a name for himself. He seems to have the work ethic, a critical piece of success often overlooked. I feel a majority of why Torrey Smith has evolved as a receiver is because of his work ethic. You can't downplay that quality. It's the critical piece of success, as a player without athleticism, a player who should not make it, can overcome and become a quality player with work ethic. Having those attributes only helps, of course.

I remember another player who didn't have much athleticism that switched from DT to LB. His name was Jarrett Johnson, wasn't it? Hmm...

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365447265' post='1427965']
Very true. Personally, I was impressed that a man as big as he was could move as well as he did in preseason against the Rams. I think he may be a surprise candidate to really make a name for himself. He seems to have the work ethic, a critical piece of success often overlooked. I feel a majority of why Torrey Smith has evolved as a receiver is because of his work ethic. You can't downplay that quality. It's the critical piece of success, as a player without athleticism, a player who should not make it, can overcome and become a quality player with work ethic. Having those attributes only helps, of course.

I remember another player who didn't have much athleticism that switched from DT to LB. His name was Jarrett Johnson, wasn't it? Hmm...
[/quote]

I was very impressed watching Hall play DE and DT. He is so quick getting off the ball and penetrating. For a smaller lineman, he did well to hold his ground, shed, and penetrate. I don't know if he'll catch on to the coverage aspect of the position, but as far as run defense and pass rushing go, Bryan Hall will be set!

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365447459' post='1427966']


I was very impressed watching Hall play DE and DT. He is so quick getting off the ball and penetrating. For a smaller lineman, he did well to hold his ground, shed, and penetrate. I don't know if he'll catch on to the coverage aspect of the position, but as far as run defense and pass rushing go, Bryan Hall will be set!
[/quote]
Yeah, I have no idea how he will be in coverage. He looks good as a traditional LB. That may not be a bad thing. He could have the Ellerbe role of penetrating the A-Gap & making those TFL through the middle with Ngata blowing up people, lol. I doubt we rely on him to be a covering LB without seeing more from him. I'm sure we get a coverage guy in the draft, but having Hall & another guy inside doesn't sound bad.

He might even be a good ST player. I'm excited for his potential.

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365447702' post='1427974']
Yeah, I have no idea how he will be in coverage. He looks good as a traditional LB. That may not be a bad thing. He could have the Ellerbe role of penetrating the A-Gap & making those TFL through the middle with Ngata blowing up people, lol. I doubt we rely on him to be a covering LB without seeing more from him. I'm sure we get a coverage guy in the draft, but having Hall & another guy inside doesn't sound bad.

He might even be a good ST player. I'm excited for his potential.
[/quote]

I'd love to have him as a two-down linebacker amd then draft a coverage backer like Kiko Alonso for third down coverage duties. I know Hall played LB in hgh school, so we'll see if he remembers how to cover. Or, we might see why Hall was moved to DT in the first place. He's quick, plays with a high motor, and a lot of energy, so that could help him out.

[GrimCoconut]

@The Raven: (can't quote for some reason)
I agree. I absolutely love Kiko Alonso. He's one of the better coverage LBs in this draft. The kid has excellent height as well. I see him as having insane potential. In a good way, of course. I see him as a play-maker who can come up with interceptions & create turnovers. He's football smart. He has really good instincts.

With that said, the kid's fundamentals are just awful. He doesn't have great tackling skills & on top of it his angles are just the worst of any LB in this class. I laughed out loud at his angles. I know others have as well. He also has some character concerns, but those have been a while ago so we might be OK there. I need to see more interviews on him as others have stated he seems "dumb".

Regardless, I see him as having the most upside of any LB in the class & stand by that. I think he could be a Kuechly or Washington IF his potential is realized. That's my biggest question regarding him--can he reach his potential? Not so sure.

I think he will be a late 2nd or early 3rd round pick. Not so sure he falls beyond that.

[The Raven]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365449441' post='1428017']
@The Raven: (can't quote for some reason)
I agree. I absolutely love Kiko Alonso. He's one of the better coverage LBs in this draft. The kid has excellent height as well. I see him as having insane potential. In a good way, of course. I see him as a play-maker who can come up with interceptions & create turnovers. He's football smart. He has really good instincts.

With that said, the kid's fundamentals are just awful. He doesn't have great tackling skills & on top of it his angles are just the worst of any LB in this class. I laughed out loud at his angles. I know others have as well. He also has some character concerns, but those have been a while ago so we might be OK there. I need to see more interviews on him as others have stated he seems "dumb".

Regardless, I see him as having the most upside of any LB in the class & stand by that. I think he could be a Kuechly or Washington IF his potential is realized. That's my biggest question regarding him--can he reach his potential? Not so sure.

I think he will be a late 2nd or early 3rd round pick. Not so sure he falls beyond that.
[/quote]

I agree with everything there! We have a defensive coaching staff that, while (perhaps wrongly) criticized for basic schemes, they emphasize the fundamentals. Pees always talks about getting down to basics.

[H8R]

I look at Alonso as an 3rd round guy. Hes got tools, but he might not be capable of next level defense if he doesn't learn how to use them.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1365453462' post='1428080']
I look at Alonso as an 3rd round guy. Hes got tools, but he might not be capable of next level defense if he doesn't learn how to use them.
[/quote]
I agree! I'd rather have Zaviar Gooden or Sio Moore than Alonso. In fact Sio is really growing on me. He is very good in coverage and does not shy away from blocks. He also brings added value as a pass-rusher.

I think a fast, athletic LB would be an excellent complement to what we have in Hall and McClellan, who I have hopes for as an ILB. I think he can be a Bart Scott type player for us given the opportunity.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365454964' post='1428107']
I agree! I'd rather have Zaviar Gooden or Sio Moore than Alonso. In fact Sio is really growing on me. He is very good in coverage and does not shy away from blocks. He also brings added value as a pass-rusher.

I think a fast, athletic LB would be an excellent complement to what we have in Hall and McClellan, who I have hopes for as an ILB. I think he can be a Bart Scott type player for us given the opportunity.
[/quote]
What's funny is, I agree as well. I think Alonso has everything you would want & is capable of everything you want. My biggest question mark is whether he can be everything you want. I'm not sure he has the drive or ambition to reach his best.