Michael Oher's contract

[GrimCoconut]

Here's how I see this playing out:

1. I believe #74, Baltimore Ravens OT Michael Oher will be on the left side of the offensive line protecting $120.6M man Joe Flacco #5.

2. The only way I do not see Michael Oher at LT are in these circumstances:
A. We re-sign McKinnnie. - possible; looks a lot better than at the beginning of the offseason.
B. Oher is injured. - Let's hope this does not happen.
C. We draft some stud LT who contributes right away. - After the top-3, I don't think any OT prospect is ready day 1 to start at LT. I do not think Armstead or Watson will be able to play LT season 1. We also ease our rookies into major roles. I see RT, but not LT. Maybe LG & later slide to LT.
D. We trade for a LT. - I really doubt this happens. Our LT situation isn't this dire. We've traded for positions before, but barring injury, I believe this doesn't happen.
E. We sign a veteran OT who has been cut/FA or will soon be cut/FA due to draft or otherwise. - possible. I could see it happen. Who gets cut? Million dollar question right there.

I just believe unless we re-sign Bryant McKinnie, which I doubt happens, then we move with Michael Oher at LT unless we want to put Ramon Harewood, Jack Cornell, Jah Reid or Kelechi Osemele there.

Yeah...

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Blackbirds Rule' timestamp='1365554864' post='1429025']


Even on that link Oher wasn't the worst. He didn't give up the most sacks or hurries. Just based on that list he's around the 23rd best LT and 16th best Rt give or take a position. Those numbers IMO don't mean much I go by our wins and losses. With Oher on Rt or LT we go to the playoffs and he plays average on the LT spot and above average on the RT spot. If you don't like the guy that's fine I do. I'd rather have him on the RT side than LT spot but we can win with him on either side. If you go by that sites stats Flacco is barely a top 20 QB. Romo has better stats than Flacco but Flacco's the better QB. With Oher on the RT spot in the playoffs he performed at an elite level. That is a fact.
[/quote]
I never said he was the worst, but he is clearly in the bottom half of the league. So presented with hard evidence you dismiss it because we "win"? That's such a cop out. We have won in spite of Other's poor play not because of it. Our QBs success is directly linked to the play of the Online. That's not all on Oher, but he has consistently been the weak link. He is not a good RT and he is even worse on the left side. I'm tired if hearing the Oher is a bad LT but switch him to his proper position and all our problems are solved nonsense. If he can play well for an entire season at RT I'll change my stance.

[Yatagarasu]

If the team decide to move on from Oher, then who would be our replacements?

Jah Reid
Kelechi Osemele
Jack Carroll

Yikes!

[Yatagarasu]

The practice squader we had in Austin Howard became a pleasant surprise for the Jets since he is now their starting RT.

[Blackbirds Rule]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365557101' post='1429037']

I never said he was the worst, but he is clearly in the bottom half of the league. So presented with hard evidence you dismiss it because we "win"? That's such a cop out. We have won in spite of Other's poor play not because of it. Our QBs success is directly linked to the play of the Online. That's not all on Oher, but he has consistently been the weak link. He is not a good RT and he is even worse on the left side. I'm tired if hearing the Oher is a bad LT but switch him to his proper position and all our problems are solved nonsense. If he can play well for an entire season at RT I'll change my stance.
[/quote]

Since you keep dismissing it I'll ask you again. Who did anything against Oher in the entire playoffs and Super Bowl? A lot of the pressure and sacks given up by Oher was due to our scheme under Cam. Flacco held the ball for long periods of time. Every LT outside of Ogden will give up sacks. There is no LT or RT that didn't give up sacks or hurries during the season. Vollmer the all pro RT got beat a few times by Kruger in the AFC championship game. We didn't win in spite of him we win because of our entire teams effort. A cop out is acting like every time a sack or hurry came it was because of Oher. Our LG spot before Osemele was a walk thru to Flacco. At RT Osemele constantly got beat by speed rushers. We found out in the playoffs who our LG, and RT are. We already knew who our RG was. We need to get a backup interior lineman that can play C and both G spots as well as a primary LT.

If you answer this quote start with my first question. Who did anything against Oher in the playoffs and Super Bowl ?

[Blackbirds Rule]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365555571' post='1429030']
Here's how I see this playing out:

1. I believe #74, Baltimore Ravens OT Michael Oher will be on the left side of the offensive line protecting $120.6M man Joe Flacco #5.

2. The only way I do not see Michael Oher at LT are in these circumstances:
A. We re-sign McKinnnie. - possible; looks a lot better than at the beginning of the offseason.
B. Oher is injured. - Let's hope this does not happen.
C. We draft some stud LT who contributes right away. - After the top-3, I don't think any OT prospect is ready day 1 to start at LT. I do not think Armstead or Watson will be able to play LT season 1. We also ease our rookies into major roles. I see RT, but not LT. Maybe LG & later slide to LT.
D. We trade for a LT. - I really doubt this happens. Our LT situation isn't this dire. We've traded for positions before, but barring injury, I believe this doesn't happen.
E. We sign a veteran OT who has been cut/FA or will soon be cut/FA due to draft or otherwise. - possible. I could see it happen. Who gets cut? Million dollar question right there.

I just believe unless we re-sign Bryant McKinnie, which I doubt happens, then we move with Michael Oher at LT unless we want to put Ramon Harewood, Jack Cornell, Jah Reid or Kelechi Osemele there.

Yeah...
[/quote]

Imagine this scenario the Eagles cutting Jason Peters after the draft. He would come cheap and is a pretty good LT although he's coming off an Achilles tear.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Blackbirds Rule' timestamp='1365560029' post='1429078']


Imagine this scenario the Eagles cutting Jason Peters after the draft. He would come cheap and is a pretty good LT although he's coming off an Achilles tear.
[/quote]
AND... Ozzie rips everyone off again.
This is unlikely tho

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Blackbirds Rule' timestamp='1365560029' post='1429078']
Imagine this scenario the Eagles cutting Jason Peters after the draft. He would come cheap and is a pretty good LT although he's coming off an Achilles tear.
[/quote]
It is pretty unlikely, as Irrev said. Still, I could see it happen. Then again, I can also see Armageddon coming as well.

[img]http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/90/80/63488926847690/0/end-world-survival-guide-staying-alive-during-zombie-apocalypse.w654.jpg[/img]
Oh...wait...that happened already. We're still here. #12/21/12.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365565388' post='1429135']
It is pretty unlikely, as Irrev said. Still, I could see it happen. Then again, I can also see Armageddon coming as well.

[img]http://img.wonderhowto.com/img/90/80/63488926847690/0/end-world-survival-guide-staying-alive-during-zombie-apocalypse.w654.jpg[/img]
Oh...wait...that happened already. We're still here. #12/21/12.
[/quote]Nah, the last I checked, the Eagles were dumb. But still unrealistic.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Blackbirds Ruleh' timestamp='1365559416' post='1429067']


Since you keep dismissing it I'll ask you again. Who did anything against Oher in the entire playoffs and Super Bowl? A lot of the pressure and sacks given up by Oher was due to our scheme under Cam. Flacco held the ball for long periods of time. Every LT outside of Ogden will give up sacks. There is no LT or RT that didn't give up sacks or hurries during the season. Vollmer the all pro RT got beat a few times by Kruger in the AFC championship game. We didn't win in spite of him we win because of our entire teams effort. A cop out is acting like every time a sack or hurry came it was because of Oher. Our LG spot before Osemele was a walk thru to Flacco. At RT Osemele constantly got beat by speed rushers. We found out in the playoffs who our LG, and RT are. We already knew who our RG was. We need to get a backup interior lineman that can play C and both G spots as well as a primary LT.

If you answer this quote start with my first question. Who did anything against Oher in the playoffs and Super Bowl ?
[/quote]
You are missing the point. Oher gave up over 100 pressures in his first three years in the league and only continued his poor play last season although I do not have the numbers from that. That is a large samples size, much larger than the playoff run. Even in the playoffs when he beasted I remember quite a few pressues that he let up. One in the SB that led to a sack and a few more pressures in that game as well. You are acting like he had s complete pocket all postseason which he did not. Flacco just made plays under duress. TD to Pitta against the Colts came with Joe scrambling because Mathis beat Oher. The TD to Jacoby against the Broncos came after Joe barely avoided a sack on a pressure Oher let up. Granted his overall body of work in the postseason was better, but it was far from perfect.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365565465' post='1429137']
Nah, the last I checked, the Eagles were dumb. But still unrealistic.
[/quote]
The Eagles have really done well this offseason. I wouldn't call them dumb. They haven't really cut any good players, either. They're a smart organization, usually. They did cut Barnes, but he just didn't produce there. I can't blame them. Regardless, I doubt highly they cut Peters but if they do, I bet you Ozzie Newsome somehow is in town that day having a cheesesteak or something.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365565796' post='1429147']
The Eagles have really done well this offseason. I wouldn't call them dumb. They haven't really cut any good players, either. They're a smart organization, usually. They did cut Barnes, but he just didn't produce there. I can't blame them. Regardless, I doubt highly they cut Peters but if they do, I bet you Ozzie Newsome somehow is in town that day having a cheesesteak or something.
[/quote]
They hired an unproven coach to be a head coach with no prior NFL experience while giving a one year ten million dollar deal to Vick.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365566032' post='1429153']
They hired an unproven coach to be a head coach with no prior NFL experience while giving a one year ten million dollar deal to Vick.
[/quote]
A deal with high incentives. His base salary is 3.5M. Yeah, he gets a signing bonus of 7.75M, but that's better than cutting him & having nothing behind him. He has actually won games in this league. Who would they have had on the open market better? I think it was a brilliant move to give Vick the money. It's a one-year deal that does not hurt them at all. That Eagles FO is a very well run FO. They make very good moves. Yeah, they went crazy a couple years ago & tried to buy a championship that didn't work out, but I have to give them respect. They are well-run. To think otherwise is just wrong. I'm sorry.

[list]
[*]Roster Bonus: $500,000 (Games Played, 10 LTBW)
[*]90% of Snaps: $1.5 million
[*]80% of Snaps: $1.2 million
[*]70% of Snaps: $900,000
[*]60% of Snaps: $700,000
[*]50% of Snaps: $500,000
[*]Super Bowl Win (Starter): $1 million
[/list]

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365566273' post='1429159']

A deal with high incentives. His base salary is 3.5M. Yeah, he gets a signing bonus of 7.75M, but that's better than cutting him & having nothing behind him. He has actually won games in this league. Who would they have had on the open market better? I think it was a brilliant move to give Vick the money. It's a one-year deal that does not hurt them at all. That Eagles FO is a very well run FO. They make very good moves. Yeah, they went crazy a couple years ago & tried to buy a championship that didn't work out, but I have to give them respect. They are well-run. To think otherwise is just wrong. I'm sorry.

[list]
[*]Roster Bonus: $500,000 (Games Played, 10 LTBW)
[*]90% of Snaps: $1.5 million
[*]80% of Snaps: $1.2 million
[*]70% of Snaps: $900,000
[*]60% of Snaps: $700,000
[*]50% of Snaps: $500,000
[*]Super Bowl Win (Starter): $1 million
[/list]
[/quote]
Not bad, but still.... It's a QB that will
Never play a full season
Always create more turnovers than TDs

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365566693' post='1429165']
Not bad, but still.... It's a QB that will
Never play a full season
Always create more turnovers than TDs
[/quote]
I think you're missing the point: QB is the most important position on the field. Who would they have as the QB without Vick? Nick Foles? Lmao. They could've signed Matt Moore. Oh yes. Great signing there.

I'm sorry. That's a well-run FO.

Anyway, I want Michael Oher to stay unless we can upgrade. His swing ability is actually a boon. I just wish he could stay somewhere. As I said in many threads, I think we're targeting a RT in the draft to replace Michael & KO, so KO can be LG & Michael at LT. Just my guess, personally.

[SecretAgentMan]

I'm a little disappointed in this fanbase
He's an average LT and an above average rt

He's an average lt who is serviceable but he doesn't completely suck. And yes, at times, I'm calling for his head, but he's not horrible. He's average. I wouldn't be upset with him on the left.

If they keep Osemele on the lg then we will be fine.

Osmele at rt was also a big problem IMHO. Keep him at lg

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365567115' post='1429168']
I'm a little disappointed in this fanbase
He's an average LT and an above average rt

He's an average lt who is serviceable but he doesn't completely suck. And yes, at times, I'm calling for his head, but he's not horrible. He's average. I wouldn't be upset with him on the left.

If they keep Osemele on the lg then we will be fine.

Osmele at rt was also a big problem IMHO. Keep him at lg
[/quote]
I really can't wait to see Castillo's impact on the OL.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365567207' post='1429170']
I really can't wait to see Castillo's impact on the OL.
[/quote]
He might be Oher's savior. I'd like to see Jay Reid given a shot at RT tbh. I never understood moving him inside.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365567590' post='1429178']
He might be Other's savior. I'd like to see Jay Reid given a shot at RT tbh. I never understood moving him inside.
[/quote]
Same. I thought Jah Reid looked good in those five snaps or so he saw in the AFCCG against NE in 2011 when Oher was out for an injury. He wasn't great, but he showed some promise. I really feel like Caldwell's playcalling & Castillo's mentoring may be able to salvage the ships that are Reid & Oher.

[CMC]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365568251' post='1429186']
I really feel like Caldwell's playcalling & Castillo's mentoring may be able to salvage the ships that are Reid & Oher.
[/quote]

Good point. I think Oher suffers from discontinuity in position and OL structure (who he is playing next to). It seems to me that Oher never settles into RT or LT since he is shipped around so frequently.

[Blackbirds Rule]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365565728' post='1429145']

You are missing the point. Oher gave up over 100 pressures in his first three years in the league and only continued his poor play last season although I do not have the numbers from that. That is a large samples size, much larger than the playoff run. Even in the playoffs when he beasted I remember quite a few pressues that he let up. One in the SB that led to a sack and a few more pressures in that game as well. You are acting like he had s complete pocket all postseason which he did not. Flacco just made plays under duress. TD to Pitta against the Colts came with Joe scrambling because Mathis beat Oher. The TD to Jacoby against the Broncos came after Joe barely avoided a sack on a pressure Oher let up. Granted his overall body of work in the postseason was better, but it was far from perfect.
[/quote]

This will be my last response to you regarding Oher because we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is we win and have won with him on both sides of the line. You act like no one gives us pressure or sacks but Oher. Actually I have the Denver game on right now as I type the pressure came from #91 the guy Yanda was blocking. Oher had Von Miller blocked on that play. Now the play before that Miller pressured Flacco that got Flacco tackled after a 6 yard gain but it was a zone blocking scheme as Yanda and Oher both attempted to block him. We won the Super Bowl and he played RT. the Super Bowl and you want to talk about his early years and regular season when we won the Super Bowl with him playing above average at RT. Would you rather him not him not give up any pressures or sacks because there is no tackle outside of Odgen who can do this? Can you say to yourself Michael Oher helped us win the Super Bowl and he was my teams starting RT? Just leave it at that, good day to you my friend.

[Blackbirds Rule]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1365567115' post='1429168']
I'm a little disappointed in this fanbase
He's an average LT and an above average rt

He's an average lt who is serviceable but he doesn't completely suck. And yes, at times, I'm calling for his head, but he's not horrible. He's average. I wouldn't be upset with him on the left.

If they keep Osemele on the lg then we will be fine.

Osmele at rt was also a big problem IMHO. Keep him at lg
[/quote]

I keep saying this over and over and it seems a few people in this fan base don't agree.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Blackbirds Rule' timestamp='1365595167' post='1429299']


This will be my last response to you regarding Oher because we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is we win and have won with him on both sides of the line. You act like no one gives us pressure or sacks but Oher. Actually I have the Denver game on right now as I type the pressure came from #91 the guy Yanda was blocking. Oher had Von Miller blocked on that play. Now the play before that Miller pressured Flacco that got Flacco tackled after a 6 yard gain but it was a zone blocking scheme as Yanda and Oher both attempted to block him. We won the Super Bowl and he played RT. the Super Bowl and you want to talk about his early years and regular season when we won the Super Bowl with him playing above average at RT. Would you rather him not him not give up any pressures or sacks because there is no tackle outside of Odgen who can do this? Can you say to yourself Michael Oher helped us win the Super Bowl and he was my teams starting RT? Just leave it at that, good day to you my friend.
[/quote]
Sure, Other helped us win the SB. That forsnt mean there aren't better options out there to play RT. Sorry, but I don't have my head stuck in the sand.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1365565728' post='1429145']
You are missing the point. Oher gave up over 100 pressures in his first three years in the league and only continued his poor play last season although I do not have the numbers from that. That is a large samples size, much larger than the playoff run. Even in the playoffs when he beasted I remember quite a few pressues that he let up. One in the SB that led to a sack and a few more pressures in that game as well. You are acting like he had s complete pocket all postseason which he did not. Flacco just made plays under duress. TD to Pitta against the Colts came with Joe scrambling because Mathis beat Oher. The TD to Jacoby against the Broncos came after Joe barely avoided a sack on a pressure Oher let up. Granted his overall body of work in the postseason was better, but it was far from perfect.
[/quote]

Good numbers, but his struggles in pass protection are easily identifiable just watching the games. He did let up a lot of pressure still in the playoffs, I think getting him next to the best guard in the league covered up his glaring deficiencies more than anything else. He can't play LT at a high level, I still cringe everything we get a pre-snap flag and expect it to be him, and I just don't understand those defending him. I've said it before, I'll say it again: hitching our wagon to Oher is a marketing ploy and would be a long term mistake for this franchise. You can't get the best out of Flacco if you can't protect him, and Oher has shown over and over and over again that he is not capable of doing that.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1365609271' post='1429608']


Good numbers, but his struggles in pass protection are easily identifiable just watching the games. He did let up a lot of pressure still in the playoffs, I think getting him next to the best guard in the league covered up his glaring deficiencies more than anything else. He can't play LT at a high level, I still cringe everything we get a pre-snap flag and expect it to be him, and I just don't understand those defending him. I've said it before, I'll say it again: hitching our wagon to Oher is a marketing ploy and would be a long term mistake for this franchise. You can't get the best out of Flacco if you can't protect him, and Oher has shown over and over and over again that he is not capable of doing that.
[/quote]
100% agreed

[The Raven]

[quote name='Blackbirds Rule' timestamp='1365595167' post='1429299']
This will be my last response to you regarding Oher because we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is we win and have won with him on both sides of the line. You act like no one gives us pressure or sacks but Oher. Actually I have the Denver game on right now as I type the pressure came from #91 the guy Yanda was blocking. Oher had Von Miller blocked on that play. Now the play before that Miller pressured Flacco that got Flacco tackled after a 6 yard gain but it was a zone blocking scheme as Yanda and Oher both attempted to block him. We won the Super Bowl and he played RT. the Super Bowl and you want to talk about his early years and regular season when we won the Super Bowl with him playing above average at RT. Would you rather him not him not give up any pressures or sacks because there is no tackle outside of Odgen who can do this?[b] Can you say to yourself Michael Oher helped us win the Super Bowl and he was my teams starting RT?[/b] Just leave it at that, good day to you my friend.
[/quote]

Terrence Cody was the NT when we won the Superbowl, but no you're right we don't need to improve either spot.

[Blackbirds Rule]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1365616719' post='1429740']
Terrence Cody was the NT when we won the Superbowl, but no you're right we don't need to improve either spot.
[/quote]

He barely played Kemo was our NT for the Super Bowl. Ngata is moving back to NT to start but we will need to draft a NT because we'll need depth and to replace Cody. My point with the earlier comment is that Oher is fine at RT. We'll draft a potential LT and/or sign McKinnie back. If Oher was Cody at RT then I'd agree we need to improve there but he's above average at RT. No one is saying Oher is the future LT. The majority say he's better at RT and in a pinch can play LT due to an injury or unforseen circumstance.

LT- open RT Oher

[Yatagarasu]

Andre Smith just set a new standard.

 

3 year $18 million (5 million guaranteed) - $6 million per year

 

That's way below what the average RTs hauled this offseason.

 

Maybe the low years made the contract lower, since higher contracts are backloaded. Also, teams weren't sure how Smith would react with more money since he took so long to get to form in his rookie contract.

 

I hope this shines a light on how much we might give Michael Oher.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he gave Oher somewhere around $5 million range since he doesn't have any Pro-Bowl or All-Pro accolades yet.

[SecretAgentMan]

Extend Oher and Pitta now.....

 

Franchise Jones next season

[ravensdan]

I can see both sides of the argument for and against oher. But I found a few eye open inning stats. Ohers run blocking has been continually mentioned as his strong suit but according to pff he accumulated a negative run blocking rating in every playoff game last year. In fact he complied a -17 run blocking rating for the year. He actually performed better in pass blocking. He had an average to slightly above average pass blocking rating in the playoffs and finished the year with a +3.7. Slightly above average.

In comparison to the aforementioned players

Oher overall -5.9 57th overall
Pass block -.8 or 51st overall
Run block -6 or 70th overall
Clabo overall +21.3 or 14th overall
Pass block +12.3or 23rd
Run block +5.5 or 21st
Winston overall +13.1 or 26th
Pass block+8.0 or 24th
Run block +7.2 or 13th