The Left Tackle Dilemma

[chappers11]

I think this is our main area for focus during the draft, if we solidify the OLine Joe showed what he can do in the postseason... Imagine a whole year like that!

[Ravensfan23]

The Ravens have 3 options imo. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and draft LT. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and allow Harewood, Mims, and others to develop. Or trade for Branden Albert.

The last option maybe the best and this is how I see it playing out. The Ravens will trade out of round one back into the top 10 of the 2nd and a top pick in the 4th. With that top 2nd rounder a impact defensive player will be taken.

With the 62nd and the high 4th, the Ravens will trade for Branden Albert and sure up that LT position. Just like Doom Albert will get a cap friendly deal for 5yrs.

The guy is a instant upgrade to anyone we could add to the LT. We won't have a shot a Luke, Eric or Lane and both Armstead and Menelik seem too risk for a Ozzie 1st round pick and probably won't be around long enough in round 2. Albert is available and the Ravens have a need. Reports are that KC wants a 2nd and a conditional pick. Mia is already in talks and have 2 second rounders. That 62nd pick probably wont be good enough to get it done alone, so you add that extra pick to sweeten it.

So looking at it overall. Ozzie trades out of the 1st, picks up an additional pick and still lands his guy. Te'o or Cyprien. Then with the 2nd and 4th pick up Albert.

[CARavensFan]

I think its important for people to remember that Branden Albert isn't the franchise LT that everyone is thinking he is. When he was coming out of the draft people were saying he'd make a better guard than tackle and now the Chiefs are looking to take a rookie over him.

As our current sistuation shows teams don't just let go of franchise LTs, I think we'd just be in a situation of takin gon someone else's garbage.

I'd much rather us draft someone that we can develop, then give up a couple picks for a guy that couldn't even hold down the LT job on the team that orginally draft him.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1365424803' post='1427753']
The Ravens have 3 options imo. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and draft LT. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and allow Harewood, Mims, and others to develop. Or trade for Branden Albert.

The last option maybe the best and this is how I see it playing out. The Ravens will trade out of round one back into the top 10 of the 2nd and a top pick in the 4th. With that top 2nd rounder a impact defensive player will be taken.

With the 62nd and the high 4th, the Ravens will trade for Branden Albert and sure up that LT position. Just like Doom Albert will get a cap friendly deal for 5yrs.

The guy is a instant upgrade to anyone we could add to the LT. We won't have a shot a Luke, Eric or Lane and both Armstead and Menelik seem too risk for a Ozzie 1st round pick and probably won't be around long enough in round 2. Albert is available and the Ravens have a need. Reports are that KC wants a 2nd and a conditional pick. Mia is already in talks and have 2 second rounders. That 62nd pick probably wont be good enough to get it done alone, so you add that extra pick to sweeten it.

[b]So looking at it overall. Ozzie trades out of the 1st, picks up an additional pick and still lands his guy. Te'o or Cyprien. Then with the 2nd and 4th pick up Albert[/b].
[/quote]

taking Manti out of that, you'e my copy-cat lol, been saying about these trades scenarios for a couple of weeks now... get Cyprien first, but then get either Armstead, Menelik or Pugh... can't see Albert coming here, his price tag is still too high

[cobrajet]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1364443677' post='1418169']
Hey, just saying what I think. Now if Johnson, Joeckel or Fisher fell and are within 10 picks or so of us, now that's really possible. I doubt that happens.
[/quote]
Zero chance that happens. I am a Lane Johnson fan so I would make the jump to #10 for him and grab him before San Diego. If not that pick is a lock.

The difference between McKinnie and Gaither............At least McKinnie will show up and actually play on Game Day and perform fairly well. I am not a fan, but if we don't trade up I would take him for the following reasons:
1. K.O. is a beast LG and I like him there
2. I have no faith in Reid, Oher, or Harewood at LT
My three reasons for trading up:
1. Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson are the only three tackles I see as immediate starters, IMHO everyone else is a project and Joe needs someone how can give him some time for a play to develop down field with Torrey, Jacoby, or Dennis.
2. I feel LT is a bigger need than ILB (IMHO I would rather start Josh Bynes at ILB and have Lane Johnson - than have Minter or Teo and start either Reid, Oher, or Harwood at LT)
3. You don't make Joe the highest player in the NFL and risk getting him hurt because you can't protect him

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1365430979' post='1427808']
Zero chance that happens. I am a Lane Johnson fan so I would make the jump to #10 for him and grab him before San Diego. If not that pick is a lock.
[/quote]

i bet the 3 LTs go in the first 6 picks (where browns are at the mo), chiefs-eagles-lions are in a dire need for one and fins are on the move
[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158131/article/lane-johnson-on-miami-dolphins-draft-radar-in-trade-up"]http://www.nfl.com/n...dar-in-trade-up[/url]

[cobrajet]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1365424803' post='1427753']
The Ravens have 3 options imo. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and draft LT. Sign Mckinnie/Starks and allow Harewood, Mims, and others to develop. Or trade for Branden Albert.

The last option maybe the best and this is how I see it playing out. The Ravens will trade out of round one back into the top 10 of the 2nd and a top pick in the 4th. With that top 2nd rounder a impact defensive player will be taken.

With the 62nd and the high 4th, the Ravens will trade for Branden Albert and sure up that LT position. Just like Doom Albert will get a cap friendly deal for 5yrs.

The guy is a instant upgrade to anyone we could add to the LT. We won't have a shot a Luke, Eric or Lane and both Armstead and Menelik seem too risk for a Ozzie 1st round pick and probably won't be around long enough in round 2. Albert is available and the Ravens have a need. Reports are that KC wants a 2nd and a conditional pick. Mia is already in talks and have 2 second rounders. That 62nd pick probably wont be good enough to get it done alone, so you add that extra pick to sweeten it.

So looking at it overall. Ozzie trades out of the 1st, picks up an additional pick and still lands his guy. Te'o or Cyprien. Then with the 2nd and 4th pick up Albert.
[/quote]
I would love to have Albert and I would give the Chiefs a second rounder for him, but since they tagged him - Would we have the cap space?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1365430979' post='1427808']

Zero chance that happens. I am a Lane Johnson fan so I would make the jump to #10 for him and grab him before San Diego. If not that pick is a lock.

The difference between McKinnie and Gaither............At least McKinnie will show up and actually play on Game Day and perform fairly well. I am not a fan, but if we don't trade up I would take him for the following reasons:
1. K.O. is a beast LG and I like him there
2. I have no faith in Reid, Oher, or Harewood at LT
My three reasons for trading up:
1. Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson are the only three tackles I see as immediate starters, IMHO everyone else is a project and Joe needs someone how can give him some time for a play to develop down field with Torrey, Jacoby, or Dennis.
2. I feel LT is a bigger need than ILB (IMHO I would rather start Josh Bynes at ILB and have Lane Johnson - than have Minter or Teo and start either Reid, Oher, or Harwood at LT)
3. You don't make Joe the highest player in the NFL and risk getting him hurt because you can't protect him
[/quote]
Lol, I personally agree that there is zero chance Johnson, Joeckel or Fisher fall to pick #22. What I was saying is that I don't see Ozzie pulling an Atlanta. He doesn't move beyond 10 picks, up or down. He said as much last year. It's also not his style. Of course, here are exceptions but Ozzie should stick to not moving up or back more than 10 as when he has we haven't had such great luck.

Rather than move up and sacrifice our picks this year & beyond, I would take Terron Armstead, Menelik Watson, Chris Faulk, Dallas Thomas, Luke Marquardt, Jordan Mills, Jordan Devey, David Quessenberry as potential guys to play LT. Chris Faulk was considered one of the better LT in the class before his injury. If we can use the excuse that players are returning from ACLs better than before, why not use it on him as well?

[cobrajet]

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1365431322' post='1427811']
i bet the 3 LTs go in the first 6 picks (where browns are at the mo), chiefs-eagles-lions are in a dire need for one and fins are on the move
[url="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158131/article/lane-johnson-on-miami-dolphins-draft-radar-in-trade-up"]http://www.nfl.com/n...dar-in-trade-up[/url]
[/quote]
I would not take that bet.....I think you are absolutely correct.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365431528' post='1427818']
Lol, I personally agree that there is zero chance Johnson, Joeckel or Fisher fall to pick #22. What I was saying is that I don't see Ozzie pulling an Atlanta. He doesn't move beyond 10 picks, up or down. He said as much last year. It's also not his style. Of course, here are exceptions but Ozzie should stick to not moving up or back more than 10 as when he has we haven't had such great luck.

Rather than move up and sacrifice our picks this year & beyond, I would take Terron Armstead, Menelik Watson, Chris Faulk, Dallas Thomas, Luke Marquardt, Jordan Mills, Jordan Devey, David Quessenberry as potential guys to play LT. Chris Faulk was considered one of the better LT in the class before his injury. If we can use the excuse that players are returning from ACLs better than before, why not use it on him as well?
[/quote]
Faulk is one that I think has potential, but we would need to really check him out medically. My one concern is that lack of push for his size. That concerns me in the run game.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1365431876' post='1427820']

Faulk is one that I think has potential, but we would need to really check him out medically. My one concern is that lack of push for his size. That concerns me in the run game.
[/quote]
So you're saying your issue with Faulk has to do with his push? I don't see McKinnie any better in this regard.

I might be delusional here, but this clamoring for a LT reminds me of last year where we as fans clamored for Peter Konz to replace Birk or even someone like a highly-rated guard to replace Grubbs. I know guards & centers are different as it-- is very hard & almost impossible to find a LT after the 1st round or outside the top 10.

Also, why would we "really need to check him out medically" more than we do any prospect? It's not like he's Michael Mauti with three ACL tears. If I recall correctly, this is his first real injury of any significance. His 40 was also pretty good, if I am remembering correctly & not confusing him with another player.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365432565' post='1427830']
So you're saying your issue with Faulk has to do with his push? I don't see McKinnie any better in this regard.

I might be delusional here, but this clamoring for a LT reminds me of last year where we as fans clamored for Peter Konz to replace Birk or even someone like a highly-rated guard to replace Grubbs. I know guards & centers are different as it-- is very hard & almost impossible to find a LT after the 1st round or outside the top 10.

Also, why would we "really need to check him out medically" more than we do any prospect? It's not like he's Michael Mauti with three ACL tears. If I recall correctly, this is his first real injury of any significance. His 40 was also pretty good, if I am remembering correctly & not confusing him with another player.
[/quote]
You are 100% correct - same exact problem. However, IMHO McKinnie has still got it in the passing game and on game day I find him to play fairly decent. I worry about him in the off season and holding up through a full 16 game season, but with that said, I find him to be a lot better LT than anyone we currently have. I say that because I find K.O. to be a gem LG and I want to keep him at LG, just like Yanda played fairly well at RT but I like him at RG and I also want to keep him there. If we can pull off a trade for Albert (not sure how with our limited cap space) or trade up for Joeckel, Fisher, or Lane (which would surprise me with Ozzie's track record) than we would improve the position. If not then, I would not be opposed to bringing back McKinnie, although I am usually not for guys who don't put there heart and soul into being a Raven, but I am willing to make an exception because IMHO LT is out biggest need.

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1365430979' post='1427808']
Zero chance that happens. I am a Lane Johnson fan so I would make the jump to #10 for him and grab him before San Diego. If not that pick is a lock.

The difference between McKinnie and Gaither............At least McKinnie will show up and actually play on Game Day and perform fairly well. I am not a fan, but if we don't trade up I would take him for the following reasons:
1. K.O. is a beast LG and I like him there
2. I have no faith in Reid, Oher, or Harewood at LT
My three reasons for trading up:
1. Joeckel, Fisher, and Johnson are the only three tackles I see as immediate starters, IMHO everyone else is a project and Joe needs someone how can give him some time for a play to develop down field with Torrey, Jacoby, or Dennis.
2. I feel LT is a bigger need than ILB (IMHO I would rather start Josh Bynes at ILB and have Lane Johnson - than have Minter or Teo and start either Reid, Oher, or Harwood at LT)
3. You don't make Joe the highest player in the NFL and risk getting him hurt because you can't protect him
[/quote]

I agree except that because of his attitude, I really don't want McKinnie back unless there is absolutely no other option. Yes, he can play and play well [i][b]when and if [/b][/i]he is motivated, but there is no "when and if" when you are a Raven. If you are a Raven, you play like a Raven. Period.

[mg90]

I hope we address this first in the draft, maybe even trade up for one of the best. Flacco having a good line should be priority imo.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='cwfRaven' timestamp='1365443837' post='1427916']
I agree except that because of his attitude, I really don't want McKinnie back unless there is absolutely no other option. Yes, he can play and play well [i][b]when and if [/b][/i]he is motivated, but there is no "when and if" when you are a Raven. If you are a Raven, you play like a Raven. Period.
[/quote]
Trust me, I understand. I am also a little torn about it. The only reason I am leaning toward him is that he knows our system, has not been that much trouble, and he is willing to go out and perform on game day unlike Gaither. If we can trade up and land a top notch draft pick or pick up another decent free agent, I would be more than happy with that. I think McKinnie can still play though and I know you say "when and if he is motivated" but he really puts out decent performances on game day and protects Joe pretty well in all the games I have seen. He could end up being resigned at a fair price once he understands that the demand for him just is not all there. My only worry is him staying in reasonable shape and holding up all 16 games and beyond.

[omar586]

who are the top LTs in this draft??

[Ravenseconbeast]

Mckinnie will be addressed once we see what we have in draft.

If we miss out on key targets in 1st/2nd round, i see us bringing back b.mac

if not, i say mac's career might be done

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1365429731' post='1427796']


taking Manti out of that, you'e my copy-cat lol, been saying about these trades scenarios for a couple of weeks now... get Cyprien first, but then get either Armstead, Menelik or Pugh... can't see Albert coming here, his price tag is still too high
[/quote]

Not sure about Albert being too pricey. Ozzie has cleared a lot of cap space and as we seen with both Joe and Doom, the Ravens are doing a lot of cap friendly deals.

I could see him coming at about 7.5M per year which isn't bad for a Franchise LT.

[rmw10]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1365470618' post='1428305']
Not sure about Albert being too pricey. Ozzie has cleared a lot of cap space and as we seen with both Joe and Doom, the Ravens are doing a lot of cap friendly deals.

I could see him coming at about 7.5M per year which isn't bad for a Franchise LT.
[/quote]

We only have $4.2-$5.0M left. We'll need about $1.7 for the draft class. I don't see a possible way we could afford him.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1365470618' post='1428305']
Not sure about Albert being too pricey. Ozzie has cleared a lot of cap space and as we seen with both Joe and Doom, the Ravens are doing a lot of cap friendly deals.

I could see him coming at about 7.5M per year which isn't bad for a Franchise LT.
[/quote]

He is more around top 15. Considering Jake Long is getting 8.5 I doubt Albert would get around 7.5 for his one year of production/improvement. He has shown a ton of improvement in the past few years but is far from being one of the best in the game. His hype is more about how much better he has gotten and if he can keep improving then maybe this season or next season he will be considered as one of the best.


He was franchised for that reason. If he was THAT good they would have locked him up long term and used the 1st pick on another area of need. If Albert was top 5 or even top 10 I doubt they pick Joeckel first. No need to draft another LT if yours is good enough.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='dhstandard' timestamp='1365472002' post='1428324']
He is more around top 15. Considering Jake Long is getting 8.5 I doubt Albert would get around 7.5 for his one year of production/improvement. He has shown a ton of improvement in the past few years but is far from being one of the best in the game. His hype is more about how much better he has gotten and if he can keep improving then maybe this season or next season he will be considered as one of the best.


He was franchised for that reason. If he was THAT good they would have locked him up long term and used the 1st pick on another area of need. If Albert was top 5 or even top 10 I doubt they pick Joeckel first. No need to draft another LT if yours is good enough.
[/quote]
Yeah, I have to agree with you here. I don't think he will get the money he expects. I think he'll get a little more than Vollmer, to be honest. Less than Cherilus, more than Vollmer.

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1365455731' post='1428118']
Trust me, I understand. I am also a little torn about it. The only reason I am leaning toward him is that he knows our system, has not been that much trouble, and he is willing to go out and perform on game day unlike Gaither. If we can trade up and land a top notch draft pick or pick up another decent free agent, I would be more than happy with that. I think McKinnie can still play though and I know you say "when and if he is motivated" but he really puts out decent performances on game day and protects Joe pretty well in all the games I have seen. He could end up being resigned at a fair price once he understands that the demand for him just is not all there. My only worry is him staying in reasonable shape and holding up all 16 games and beyond.
[/quote]

Agreed. I think trading up for a really good draft pick at LT would be about the only position it would be worth trading up for. But you are right, he is the main reason Joe had time to throw in the playoffs. Ideally, I'd like to have someone with a better attitude doing as good, preferably better, job protecting Joe - the problem is, how do we get that guy? I guess we'll soon find out!

[GrimCoconut]

I have to be honest: I just don't see us taking a left tackle in this draft. I see us keeping Michael Oher at LT. In fact, I think we would take a LG or a RT before we take a LT. I think Michael's going to stay LT with our team. I think we want to have a line of Oher - KO - Gradkowski - Yanda - ?

I think Reid is a bust. I have to call it. He's just been injured his whole career & hasn't looked very good. It's sad to say. We're very hit or miss in the 3rd. I don't think we had a good 3rd round pick with him. It's a shame, but oh well.

If I was everyone, I would begin preparing for us to take a right tackle & keep Michael Oher at LT, because that's what I see happening going forward.

[rmw10]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365481703' post='1428449']
I have to be honest: I just don't see us taking a left tackle in this draft. I see us keeping Michael Oher at LT. In fact, I think we would take a LG or a RT before we take a LT. I think Michael's going to stay LT with our team. I think we want to have a line of Oher - KO - Gradkowski - Yanda - ?

I think Reid is a bust. I have to call it. He's just been injured his whole career & hasn't looked very good. It's sad to say. We're very hit or miss in the 3rd. I don't think we had a good 3rd round pick with him. It's a shame, but oh well.

If I was everyone, I would begin preparing for us to take a right tackle & keep Michael Oher at LT, because that's what I see happening going forward.
[/quote]

I agree. That seems to be the direction we're heading. I don't really care if Oher is on the left side. Just keep KO at LG and I'll be happy. Target RT, since there are a plethora in free agency and the draft.

[BloodRaven]

The LT's outside of Lane Johnson are all projects, I doubt we use a first or even second on tackle.

[Yatagarasu]

I like Terron Armstead because he obviously very athletic and fast, but also very smart and committed guy. He's not as big or tall as Johnson or Fisher, but if short LTs like Matt Light can succeed, then so will Armstead.

With Armstead, we don't have to worry about moving Oher around and withstand his inconsistency.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1365482635' post='1428458']
The LT's outside of Lane Johnson are all projects, I doubt we use a first or even second on tackle.
[/quote]im assuming this is just ignoring joker and Fischer

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1365481872' post='1428451']


I agree. That seems to be the direction we're heading. I don't really care if Oher is on the left side. Just keep KO at LG and I'll be happy. Target RT, since there are a plethora in free agency and the draft.
[/quote]
I spent a lot of time looking at guys we interviewed & rumors of reports of interest. From everything I can find, there is a pattern that we are reviewing RT or LG prospects. It's overwhelming, actually. Off the top of my head, we interviewed Lane Johnson. That's it. We've shown no interest in Armstead. We interviewed Watson but he is projected as a RT initially. We interviewed Fluker & have shown a lot of interest in him.

I really think we take a RT or a G in this draft. I think we'll kep Oher at LT unless someone really, really promising drops to us, which I doubt.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1365510914' post='1428549']
im assuming this is just ignoring joker and Fischer
[/quote]

Yeah I meant after Joekel and Fischer.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1365481703' post='1428449']
I have to be honest: I just don't see us taking a left tackle in this draft. I see us keeping Michael Oher at LT. In fact, I think we would take a LG or a RT before we take a LT. I think Michael's going to stay LT with our team. I think we want to have a line of Oher - KO - Gradkowski - Yanda - ?

I think Reid is a bust. I have to call it. He's just been injured his whole career & hasn't looked very good. It's sad to say. We're very hit or miss in the 3rd. I don't think we had a good 3rd round pick with him. It's a shame, but oh well.

If I was everyone, I would begin preparing for us to take a right tackle & keep Michael Oher at LT, because that's what I see happening going forward.
[/quote]
and this is why I have the sinking feeling we are gonna take Fluker.