The Left Tackle Dilemma

[arnie_uk]

Jumping in on this armstead convo. I think of Joe staley when I see him. Is still like a vet to be in front of him for a year be it mckinnie or whoever. I think he has potential to be great, not step in and be great immediately and that's why he's being talked about as a late first second not a top 5 pick.

Imo you take the chance on a potential left tackle at the back of round one early 2 because we never will get a shot at those that are considered sure fire left tackles because of where we draft. It's a risk vs reward, he could bust, but he could hold down the left tackle spot for the rest of Joes career. Is that worth the risk. Yes imo.

[Ravensfan23]

David Mims is a guy that the Chiefs fan base was really upset about losing. Although using fans as a way to tell if a player is good or not, i did find it interesting that they were so upset about losing him. The coaches were really high on Mims as well. Someone mentioned the Chiefs viewed him as a right tackle only, that's not true from what i've read.

Mims was/is the true definition of a project player. He has tremendous talent, athleticism, skill and all the attributes you want in a franchise LT but he's very raw. From what I heard he's extremely coachable, hard working and just a overall good guy. I'm sure the coaches can't wait to get there hands on him. He's another Harewood type imo. Take it for what it's worth.

I wouldn't expect much from him this year, but also wouldn't be surprised to see him have a really good camp and preseason. One thing I do know is he'll be tested and pushed by Suggs, Dumerville, Upshaw and Hamilton. It'll be fun to see how he holds up.

[BloodRaven]

Mims has a lot of potential but needs a hell of a lot of coaching, he's similar to Gaither in that he doesn't have light feet but has the elite length and athleticism to mirror rushers.

Right now our most pressing needs are LT and WR, and with a deep WR class and 12 picks it could make sense to move up for Lane Johnson.

[cwfRaven]

What is a futures contract? How does that work re roster and cap space?

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='MDCop' timestamp='1364423206' post='1417798']
Ok....I was looking at our roster because of our need at LT. I know there are talks of KO or Reid or Oher or even resigning McKinnie. However while i was looking I noticed a name. I remembered we signed this guy to a Futures contract and have not heard anything since...This guy is David Mims. I decided to do some research on him as well as the top tackles in the draft this year.

David Mims was a 3x All- CIAA and a 2x All American at Virginia Union.
6-8 1/4 331 lbs
His combine numbers were as follows:

5.32 40yd dash 26 inch vert 8'6" Broad and did 29 reps in the bench

This years class top OL prospect:

Luke Joeckel- 5.3 40 yd dash 28.5 Vert 7'11" broad 27 reps
Lane Johnson- 4.72 40 yddash 34 Vert 9'10 Broad 28 reps
Eric Fisher- 5.05 40 yd dash 28.5 vert 9'8" Broad 27 reps
Terron Armstead 4.71 40 yd dash 34.5 vert 9'4"Broad 31 reps

With those numbers he is equal or better then Joeckel and Fisher ( Considered the TOP 2 OL off the board ).

So I wonder where would have Mims gone in this draft....looks pretty good to me.

Anyway, I definatly see why we signed him away from the Chiefs with a Futures contract and I believe should be considered in the racr for the LT spot. I beleive we will draft a LT prospect in this draft...like a Chris Faulk in the 4th or if Armstead falls for some reason. Funny thing is this guy is already in house and knows our system......just saying. I know he is a small school product and I know nothing of his foot work or work ethic. However I know Ozzie normally wouldnt sign someone to a contract that is a scrub. Ozzie may have just striked again.....a year ago and we didnt even know it.
[/quote]

What is a futures contract? How does this work with regard to roster and cap space?

[rmw10]

[quote name='cwfRaven' timestamp='1364495200' post='1418615']
What is a futures contract? How does that work re roster and cap space?
[/quote]

It's just a deal that was signed after the end of the regular season, during the playoffs. All of these players are usually 1st/2nd year players without a current team. In most cases, these guys won't count towards the cap because of the rule of 51.

[FerrariFan87]

The longer B-Mac remains unsigned, the more likely the Ravens bring him back for another year. I'd love to see that. Our O-line would be stout, assuming KO continues to progress and Gino is what we hope him to be.

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1364495405' post='1418618']
It's just a deal that was signed after the end of the regular season, during the playoffs. All of these players are usually 1st/2nd year players without a current team. In most cases, these guys won't count towards the cap because of the rule of 51.
[/quote]

Thanks!

[ellicottraven]

I'll tell you what I noticed when I was watching the Ravens SB Blu ray. I saw in the Pats game, Ed Reed on several occasions remarking how well the line was playing. He in fact remarked it was all universe the way the line was playing! The reason was the fact that McKinnie was at LT and KO was at LG! We still have KO, but what befuddles me is why not approach McKinnie and sign him up for a good deal?

Is it because of Harbs' doghouse and ego issues? What is going on with not having a LT yet? First we trade Boldin, and then we have no LT! How can we expect to protect Joe who is a 20MM investment? How is Joe going to produce in the manner he did in the playoffs without protection?

[rlh445]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1364419677' post='1417722']
McKinney vs. Gaither in Hardcore DogHouse match.

Both stand there looking at each other.
McKinney says, "I need more money."
Gaither says, "Me too."
Then they both agree to go through the motions.
Neither one is hitting the other.
[/quote]

LOL. We have to do something more their speed though. How about a, 'First One To Bend Over and Pick Up This Pen,' match?! The guy who actually gets the pen will obviously be the one we want.

[rlh445]

Eh I've watched a lot of footage of Terron and I wouldn't mind if we got him. Big enough, long arms, aggressive, NEVER lets a guy get to his QB and even injured came back in and played his [profanity deleted] off. THAT'S the kinda guy I want. I'm sorry guys but Gaither is a definite no. McKinnie is an arrogant jerk who only played because he knew he'd get his [profanity deleted] kicked by 52 other guys if he didn't and Oher while a guy I really like because of his work ethic and character is also a no because he's just not that great at LT. If we couldn't get another option than yes, I'd say Oher over those other bums. I want a guy who's gonna come to work to work, not to cry, moan, complain and ultimately sit out. I don't WANT my football players coming in and having to be motivated. Yup, I'm probably spoiled by Ray, Ed, the other Ray, Joe and Anquan but who cares? I want my guys ready to put in 110% and if guys don't want to? Show 'em the door, front office. Ain't nobody got time for that, we're trying to repeat here.

[omar586]

r there any FA LT out there worth picking up? who do we have in house that we feel comfortable with, i heard ozzie say after SB he's ok with guys we have, but who? is it harewood, reid, cornell, ??

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1364452137' post='1418229']
Thats fair, no need to apologize either we're just discussing prospects.

From what I've seen he could have used another year in the weightroom to develop an anchor but that will come with time. He does have a lot of Oher in him, they both lack a punch in pass pro and they have near identical length (just under 6'5" with 34 inch arms) which could be the reason why he overextends at times. However, a lack of length doesn't break a left tackle as Jason Peters and Duane Brown have shown,[b] they just need time to develop a good feel for positioning.[/b]
[/quote]

This is where I feel Armstead has or will have Oher beat. Terron showed good footwork and agility in his college days. He didn't face good competition, but his footwork was better than Oher's footwork in college.

I want Armstead, but I know he won't be dominant day one. I watched a lot of tape on him, and while I am very impressed, there are issues. He plays too high sometimes, and like you said, he really needs to get in the weight room. I think his technique is pretty good though, but he needs some fine tuning.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1364425246' post='1417863']
I keep reading/hearing that the Ravens are saying they feel comfortable with the guys they have that can play LT. I just wrote it off as typical coach speak and gamesmanship leading up to the draft but then there was that interview with Brian Baldinger (of NFL Network) where he thinks [b]KO can play LT.[/b] Now you mention this guy. Physically he seems a lot like Gaither who took a couple years to develop. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.
[/quote]
didnt ko allow 8 sacks at RT. Oh lord if so

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1364480004' post='1418366']
Mims has a lot of potential but needs a hell of a lot of coaching, he's similar to Gaither in that he doesn't have light feet but has the elite length and athleticism to mirror rushers.

Right now our most pressing needs are LT and WR, and with a deep WR class and 12 picks it could make sense to move up for Lane Johnson.
[/quote]

Moving up sounds good and 12 picks makes it seem more logical, but Johnson will probably be a top 10 guy. I just don't see the ammunition to move up in round one. We're talking about a guy in Ozzie who doesn't like to give up future 1st round picks. I just don't see it.

[Crabcakes&Football]

I don't see many feasible scenarios in which our best LT option isn't Michael Oher to start the year. Big Mac and Gaither are both unreliable, and a rookie probably won't be ready. Our best realistic scenario would be Oher/KO/Gino/Yanda/(Draft pick/Reid/Cornell) to begin the year and hopefully the draft pick is ready by the end of the year. But if one of the aforementioned vet LTs are around after June 1st maybe we can bring one in at an affordable price to compete.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1364421202' post='1417749']
Manelik Watson
[/quote]

You saw that Yahoo! aritcle too? He's definitely interesting, kinda along the same lines as Harewood.

Article for anyone who is interested:
[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-prospect-menelik-watson-globe-trots--dabbles-in-basketball-before-finding--natural--fit-015845154.html"]http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-prospect-menelik-watson-globe-trots--dabbles-in-basketball-before-finding--natural--fit-015845154.html[/url]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1364526971' post='1419031']
r there any FA LT out there worth picking up? who do we have in house that we feel comfortable with, i heard ozzie say after SB he's ok with guys we have, but who? is it harewood, reid, cornell, ??
[/quote]

From a FA standpoint I think it's either McKinnie, Starks or more likely a vetern LT cut after the draft.

From a in house standpoint it's really hard to say. Of the guys you named, I'd eliminate Jai Reid. I don't think he's a good guy for the left side of the line. However he could be a heck of a right guard or tackle imo. So if Oher becomes one of those guys who believes he can get huge money on the market, Ried is a good backup plan imo.

Cornell played really well at RT last preseason and camp. What I saw was a Marshall Yanda type persona but in a Tackles body. I liked his footwork, but his technique wasn't as good. That's to be expected from a rookie. I think he'd make a solid OT/OG swing guy. I'm sure he'll get a chance to compete at LT.

Imho Harewood is probably the leading candidate of the in house guys. He came in as a project player and each year he's improved by my eyes. He's done well at LT in the preseason with obvious ups and downs as a project player but overall well imo. I think the Ravens really like Harewood and much like David Reed many fans don't understand why. The guy has a tremendous amount of talent and has taken well to coaching imo.

I don't see anyone you can hitch your wagon to and say this guy is The Guy at LT position moving foward. But I do think there are some decent options. Overall I think a LT prospect will be selected in the top 2 rounds of the draft, but if they don't I think a trade might take place. The obvious option is Alberts if the Cheifs go OT with the 1st pick.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Sizzlebshu' timestamp='1364535710' post='1419107']
didnt ko allow 8 sacks at RT. Oh lord if so
[/quote]
Yeah. I'm not sure where he's coming from. KO belongs at guard.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1364495500' post='1418619']
The longer B-Mac remains unsigned, the more likely the Ravens bring him back for another year. I'd love to see that. Our O-line would be stout, assuming KO continues to progress and Gino is what we hope him to be.
[/quote]

My thing with McKinnie is, what kind of contract do you give this guy? I cringe when I think anything that even remotely sounds like medium or long term. Just reading articles on him and watching his Twitter feed, he's one of those guys who seems focused on a half dozen things at once, especially his record company. How committed and motivated is he?

I mean, how comfortable are you that you give him even a medium-term contract and signing bonus that he actually shows up and plays? Yea, I'm still pissed off over last year with the way he came into camp and then, by his own admission, half-***ing it through practices for almost the entire regular season. I don't care how well he played in the post-season, in my mind he pretty much stole $4.2million from the Ravens sitting on his butt.

[jimmypowder]

Still some of my friends think Oher is a better LT then Mckinnie.LOL .Maybe they didn't watch the Super Bowl run.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='CARavensFan' timestamp='1364565693' post='1419242']

You saw that Yahoo! aritcle too? He's definitely interesting, kinda along the same lines as Harewood.

Article for anyone who is interested:
[url="http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-prospect-menelik-watson-globe-trots--dabbles-in-basketball-before-finding--natural--fit-015845154.html"]http://sports.yahoo....-015845154.html[/url]
[/quote]
He's still raw when it comes to football experience. That normally isn't that big of a deal but he will be 25 next season as a rookie. That doesn't exactly give him a lot of time to develop. I wouldn't take him in the 1st round but if he is somehow still on the board at 62 I would run up to the podium to hand in the card.

[edreed2o]

I hope we can trade up for a LT but I don't want to trade away all our picks neither. LT is a very important position we need to address.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1364603421' post='1419882']
He's still raw when it comes to football experience. That normally isn't that big of a deal but he will be 25 next season as a rookie. That doesn't exactly give him a lot of time to develop. I wouldn't take him in the 1st round but if he is somehow still on the board at 62 I would run up to the podium to hand in the card.
[/quote]
Granted a 25 year-old rookie isn't ideal, but I doubt anyone is thinking of him as top draft pick. If you can pick up a guy near the last few rounds of the draft who has the athletic ability of some of the guys at the top and just needs some seasoning, why not take a flyer on him. Ramon Harewood was the same way, I think he'd only player two years of football before we drafted him.

[AsianRice]

Dear "God",

Please let us draft a clone of Jonathan Ogden this year and we are going to very grateful for that gift......

thank you....

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='CARavensFan' timestamp='1364933327' post='1422902']
Granted a 25 year-old rookie isn't ideal, but I doubt anyone is thinking of him as top draft pick. If you can [b]pick up a guy near the last few rounds of the draft[/b] who has the athletic ability of some of the guys at the top and just needs some seasoning, why not take a flyer on him. Ramon Harewood was the same way, I think he'd only player two years of football before we drafted him.
[/quote]
That's just it, he's projected to be a late 1st rounder and no later than a 2nd round pick. I saw one mock draft that had him going 24th overall.

[Brandon22]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364418783' post='1417688']
If there has been one position that has never been settled since flacco got here, its been Left tackle.The reason is we have won consistently. Left tackle is one of the few positions besides QB where it is hard to find a really good one beyond the 20th pick. It seems the only way out is to lose and get one in the top 10 but no one wants that.

So how can we finally find our Left tackle of the future?
[/quote]Give Max Starks a chance from free agency and also either aquire Nick Becton or Roger Gaines from the NFL Draft

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1364938614' post='1423013']
That's just it, he's projected to be a late 1st rounder and no later than a 2nd round pick. I saw one mock draft that had him going 24th overall.
[/quote]

I have seen that as well, partly that is because of the media hype he is getting and one really good season at Florida State. It will be interesting to see how things shake out as the draft draw closer. Personally I think he'd be worth a 3rd-4th pick at the highest, but I haven't seen much of his tape and I also don't make a living at evaluating college football players.

I'll say this, his story is very interestingand it would awasome to have a guy with a British accent, his interviews would always sound cool!!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1364936746' post='1422964']
Dear "God",

Please let us draft a clone of Jonathan Ogden this year and we are going to very grateful for that gift......

thank you....
[/quote]
While you are at it.

God, can you send us keep our first rounder. Lets do this

Abuse the FO of a stupid team. Trade into top 5.

Take Fisher
Then at 32, take Arthur Brown.

Then in round three, we take the fallen Damontre Moore.

Thanks

[easternshore97]

maybe he comes next year?