Paul Kruger vs. Elvis Dumervil

[Guest Miles John]

I don't understand how this can even be a question.

[FerrariFan87]

Elvis was a beast when he was "the guy" in Denver. Imagine how he's going to play with T-Sizzle on the other end? Pick your poison.

[berad]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1364315711' post='1415965']
Elvis was a beast when he was "the guy" in Denver. Imagine how he's going to play with T-Sizzle on the other end? Pick your poison.
[/quote]

Beast status. Actually, Sizzle might not be the most exciting aspect - he paired with another great player in Von Miller - but the beefy DL that can maybe occupy some guys. Ngata is one of the best interior players in the league

[cwfRaven]

Agreed that [u][b]to date[/b][/u], Dumervil > Kruger and that based on that, we got the better deal. But just remember...Kruger was one of everyone's favorite Ravens not so long ago - just because he's no longer a Raven doesn't mean he's trash. Some folks on here sound like the Broncos fans ranting about "good riddance" with Doom. Really? Come on, we're better than that.

We don't know how Doom will do here nor do we know how Kruger will do in Cleveland. We (and they) have certain expectations but none of us have a crystal ball, not even the Great and Powerful Oz.

I hope Doom turns out to be the force we think he will. I also hope Kruger continues to develop and has a great career (just not during division games, lol). Comparing our staff with Cleveland's, I'm sure Kruger would have developed better staying here but now instead, Doom will reap the benefits of being a Raven.

[BMORElegacy]

Kruger can be classified as a poor man's Dumervil. Leave it to the Browns to pay the lower rung player more money.

[AsianRice]

Elite Elvis vs Above average Kruger is like comparing NFL vs College football......

[easternshore97]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]
Do the Browns have a stud on the other side? Keep in mind Kruger came on late...late as in when Suggs came back from PUP.
Also, the stats that you reference on PFF probably have something to do with the scheme. 3-4 defense helps against the run and struggles more against the pass so you might be getting deceived by apples/oranges comparison. Kruger also did not set the edge well...definitely did not do so better than Upshaw, and then he was battling with said Upshaw for playing time. Hard to convince the masses that he was better...but if he is, he's gone now. We'll just have to see how well he does next year and if he plays out a good portion of his contract after 5 years.

[dirtybird10]

Yea Doom vs. Kruger?

9 sacks vs 11
1 F. Fumble vs. 6
42 tackles vs. 54
12 assist vs. 22

Hmm.... wonder who is the better pickup? Only stats Kruger holds over Dumervil is age and 1 Int last year.

[Raven07]

watching Dumervil's introduction press conference right now, I have to say... its getting me excited to see both Sizzle AND Dumervil on the SAME team coupled with Cody, Upshaw exc what a defensive front.

[Tiz]

[quote name='cwfRaven' timestamp='1364316363' post='1415990']
Agreed that [u][b]to date[/b][/u], Dumervil > Kruger and that based on that, we got the better deal. But just remember...Kruger was one of everyone's favorite Ravens not so long ago - just because he's no longer a Raven doesn't mean he's trash. Some folks on here sound like the Broncos fans ranting about "good riddance" with Doom. Really? Come on, we're better than that.

We don't know how Doom will do here nor do we know how Kruger will do in Cleveland. We (and they) have certain expectations but none of us have a crystal ball, not even the Great and Powerful Oz.

I hope Doom turns out to be the force we think he will. I also hope Kruger continues to develop and has a great career (just not during division games, lol). Comparing our staff with Cleveland's, I'm sure Kruger would have developed better staying here but now instead, Doom will reap the benefits of being a Raven.
[/quote]

Actually it was just last off season when it was questioned if Kruger could replace jarrett Johnson
So yes people liked him when he produced in the playoffs but lets not act like he was beloved and respect for an extended period of time.

[ThePurplePack]

Kruger was definiently a great player considering he led us in sacks last year i believe, but i would much rather have doom's experience & skill.

[cnyravens]

[quote name='cwfRaven' timestamp='1364316363' post='1415990']
Agreed that [u][b]to date[/b][/u], Dumervil > Kruger and that based on that, we got the better deal. But just remember...Kruger was one of everyone's favorite Ravens not so long ago - just because he's no longer a Raven doesn't mean he's trash. Some folks on here sound like the Broncos fans ranting about "good riddance" with Doom. Really? Come on, we're better than that.

We don't know how Doom will do here nor do we know how Kruger will do in Cleveland. We (and they) have certain expectations but none of us have a crystal ball, not even the Great and Powerful Oz.

I hope Doom turns out to be the force we think he will. I also hope Kruger continues to develop and has a great career (just not during division games, lol). Comparing our staff with Cleveland's, I'm sure Kruger would have developed better staying here but now instead, Doom will reap the benefits of being a Raven.
[/quote]

I won't rip on Kruger...I like him and think he'll continue to improve although not sure how well he'll stand out on a lesser team.
Ravens made the obvious choice of "passing' on what the browns offered.
With the "cap" it's year-to-year meaning that next year we could see more shifting of talent.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Suggs and/or Haloti restructure their deals.

Key for Ravens success will be the continued quality of their Drafts!

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1364323218' post='1416171']
Actually it was just last off season when it was questioned if Kruger could replace jarrett Johnson
So yes people liked him when he produced in the playoffs but[b] lets not act like he was beloved and respect for an extended period of time.[/b]
[/quote]

That's exactly why I didn't compare him leaving to Reed leaving...

Just sayin' we shouldn't [b]dis[/b]respect him, that's not fair - He came through when we needed him to. Call him what he is - a good player who is still developing and who benefited from a good system. Just because he left, doesn't mean his career is "DOOMED!" (Like how I did that? )

[mgridda]

Despite Paul Kruger improving, I don't expect him to have as good of a year next year with the Browns as he did last year with us. Let me put it this way, PFF will grade him more poorly in the pass rushing productivity stat. He'll be a less productive pass rusher.


can anyone name an outside linebacker or interior defensive lineman on the cleveland browns? If you can, match them against:

Terrell Suggs
chris canty
Haloti Ngata
Marcus Spears

I imagine these will be the starters for us, but of course it will be an open competition in training camp. If Ngata moves to nose guard, I doubt cody beats him out unless there's an injury. Hopefully everyone stays healthy. I remember in 01 tc when Jamal Lewis went down.

Still, from a pass rushing perspective: that's as good as any team in the NFL's 3-4 front.

[Hardbaugh]

Not really a fair comparison. I like Kruger and wish him the best but would have liked to see more development in prior years.

Dumervil has had success going up against elite LT, playing in various systems under different coordinators and is a leader not a support type player that Kruger was.

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1364325436' post='1416231']
Despite Paul Kruger improving, I don't expect him to have as good of a year next year with the Browns as he did last year with us. Let me put it this way, PFF will grade him more poorly in the pass rushing productivity stat. He'll be a less productive pass rusher.


can anyone name an outside linebacker or interior defensive lineman on the cleveland browns? If you can, match them against:

Terrell Suggs
chris canty
Haloti Ngata
Marcus Spears

I imagine these will be the starters for us, but of course it will be an open competition in training camp. If Ngata moves to nose guard, I doubt cody beats him out unless there's an injury. Hopefully everyone stays healthy. I remember in 01 tc when Jamal Lewis went down.

Still, from a pass rushing perspective: that's as good as any team in the NFL's 3-4 front.
[/quote]Phil Taylor and Jabaal Sheard shouldn't be taken lightly. They are studs.

[GrimCoconut]

Elvis is a more complete player than Paul. Elvis is also a superior pass rusher. No knock on Paul, but he was a part-time player. Elvis could be a full-time player and has been, though I don't expect his role to be that here...not exactly.

We upgraded with Elvis. I like Paul and will miss him but it's very clear to me who is better here.

[edreed2o]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]
Are you kidding me? How long did it take Paul krugar to get a starting spot and 15 sacks? Paul krugar wasn't doing squat until Terrell Suggs came into the picture. Elvis Dumervil is a proven pass rusher. I'm sorry but i really don't think Paul krugar has a very bright future ahead of him.

[edreed2o]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1364333321' post='1416416']
Elvis is a more complete player than Paul. Elvis is also a superior pass rusher. No knock on Paul, but he was a part-time player. Elvis could be a full-time player and has been, though I don't expect his role to be that here...not exactly.

We upgraded with Elvis. I like Paul and will miss him but it's very clear to me who is better here.
[/quote]
I think Elvis will play opposite Suggs and more than just third downs. He's too good of a player for just third downs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='edreed2o' timestamp='1364334055' post='1416436']
I think Elvis will play opposite Suggs and more than just third downs. He's too good of a player for just third downs.
[/quote]

Yep. Regardless of the DC over the years, Sizzle has frequently been asked to cover the flats and/or keep containment. In those situations, a pass rusher like Dumervil will be invaluable.

[TonyTone1192]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]

[color=#222222][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

I will miss Kruger... I agree I believe that he can play.

But until Suggs came back Kruger was irrelevant, shucks our whole D-line was irrelevant. Part of the reason why our defense was 27th in the league at one point in the season.

But to say that Kruger is better than Dumervil I completely disagree. Doom is a proven great pass rusher and maybe he is a liability against the run b/c of his size but don't forget that's why we got Canty, Spears and Upshaw is GREAT at setting the edge.

The browns defense is grossly underrated b/c of their poor win/loss record I can see Kruger having 8-11 sacks next season. Playing opposite side of Suggs I see Doom recording ATLEAST 12 barring a major injury.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[BloodRaven]

To be fair to Kruger we've always been geared to stop the run first so he's only played a fraction of the career snaps that Doom has. Also Suggs return wasn't the reason Kruger bounced back last season, he was carrying a back injury through the first half.

If Kruger plays the left side and doesn't wear down over the season he'll get double digit sacks easy.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1364325436' post='1416231']
Despite Paul Kruger improving, I don't expect him to have as good of a year next year with the Browns as he did last year with us. Let me put it this way, PFF will grade him more poorly in the pass rushing productivity stat. He'll be a less productive pass rusher.


can anyone name an outside linebacker or interior defensive lineman on the cleveland browns? If you can, match them against:

Terrell Suggs
chris canty
Haloti Ngata
Marcus Spears

I imagine these will be the starters for us, but of course it will be an open competition in training camp. If Ngata moves to nose guard, I doubt cody beats him out unless there's an injury. Hopefully everyone stays healthy. I remember in 01 tc when Jamal Lewis went down.

Still, from a pass rushing perspective: that's as good as any team in the NFL's 3-4 front.
[/quote]

Jabaal Sheard, Desmond Bryant, Phil Taylor, Athyba Rubin, John Hughes, Billy Winn. The Browns actually have a very talented DL.

[K-Dog]

Really?
This is a question ?

Kruger doesnt even come close to Dumervil .

[hawkprey]

If we brought in Revis people would be saying he doesn't make up for losing Cary Williams.

[jimmypowder]

This is a pathetic thread Elvis is so far superior to Kruger it's laughable . .

Better pass rusher
Better yes in run defense
Better in pass coverage

Did I leave out anything . Oh yes he was cheaper .

[jimmypowder]

Oh I'm in Denver as we speak . They are crying the blues !! Lol !!!!!

[funky141]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1364308893' post='1415867']
Dumervil is still only 29 although this season will be his 8th NFL season.
Kruger is 27 this will be his 5th season.

Kruger's entire Reg Season Career 15.5 sacks
Dumervil had that in one season ( Pre-Von miller when Dumervil was the man to double team ).

Thus far Kruger hasn't had to worry about facing various double teams and block schemes of teams because offenses focused on Suggs and Ngata ( even though they weren't 100% healthy ). Kruger didnt experience his increase in production until Suggs returned and became part time player.

Neither he nor Dumervil are capable run defenders.
[/quote]

Correct comparison.

[i82much]

This is a sample size problem, plain and simple.

[flynismo]

I loved Kruger, but come on, really? Kruger is better in coverage, a little stronger and is two years younger. That's all he's got on Dumervil.

On the field, there is no comparison, and never will be.