Paul Kruger vs. Elvis Dumervil

[BMORE_96]

I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)

[BloodRaven]

Doom wins... FATALITY

[The Oakland Cathedral]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]He also did nothing prior to Suggs returning.

[Free Agent]

Kruger had 15.5 sacks in four seasons. Dumervil averages 10+ sacks a season.

Advantage: Dumervil

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1364273998' post='1415680']
Kruger had 15.5 sacks in four seasons. Dumervil averages 10+ sacks a season.

Advantage: Dumervil
[/quote]

That's really the only stat you need. You can't make the argument that Dumervil isn't a far superior player to Kruger, it's just not possible.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

It's really not even close.

Doom.

[RavensDE]

Doom is better in every category except height and age. I loved Kruger but it wasn't long ago we saw him as a dissappointment. This was a steal. We got a better player for cheaper. I agree however that this puts Suggs at risk after next year.

[BMORE_96]

My point is Kruger is on the up and up and carried the ravens pass rush. He even made an impact in earlier games like Kansas City before Suggs came back. We won't realize we had a comparable player until he blows by oher next year.

[Bltravens]

Dumervil has more sacks in a single season than Kruger does in his career.

How do you even make the comparison right now?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364276569' post='1415700']
My point is Kruger is on the up and up and carried the ravens pass rush. He even made an impact in earlier games like Kansas City before Suggs came back. We won't realize we had a comparable player until he blows by oher next year.
[/quote]
Or gets plowed to the ground by Oher on a power O.

[BMORE_96]

My point is not that Kruger is a franchise player but that he was above average and could be come an elite player in Cleveland. Dumervil is the better option because he would offer similar production to last years Kruger but what about this years Kruger. What's not accounted is a players ability to improve. The browns paid him knowing he has all the tools and don't be surprised if he owns us next year pass and possiy run.

[MassRavens]

[quote]

Posted 18 minutes ago
My point is not that Kruger is a franchise player but that he was above average and could be come an elite player in Cleveland. Dumervil is the better option because he would offer similar production to last years Kruger but what about this years Kruger. What's not accounted is a players ability to improve. The browns paid him knowing he has all the tools and don't be surprised if he owns us next year pass and possiy run.
[/quote]

Cleveland by far jumped the gun and overpaid. Cleveland also does not have the kind of staff and personel that Ravens do, to develop quality players. Browns will not get the same kind of production of out Kruger that Ravens got. It won't even be close. Do you want to know why? Because everytime any other player left Ravens for other teams, they by far underperformed. They are as good as the system.

And maaaaybe if it was some other quality team you could argue that point, but this is Cleveland we're talking about here. They moved up in the first round to grab a running back (who's talented but still, we're talking The Quarterback Draft) and then later drafted 29 year old Weeden. Those people wear Pumpkins for heads.

[Purple Nurple]

Pumped that we have Dumervil. Kruger is gone and we upgraded and got a pick.

/thread

[mgridda]

Paul Kruger is no joke. He's a very good player who just never got enough snaps because we favor veterans on this team. But really, he's not nearly as good of a pass rusher as Dumervil. Elvis is a monster out of the 3-4, and is not as bad in run support in the 3-4. So he will benefit from changing schemes, being about a yard back and having his head up to look around instead of getting sucked in. But yeah, Dumervil is on a whole other class in terms of pass rushing than Paul Kruger.

If they can run on our interior, then they'll win the game. But you'll be hard pressed to find a team that can pass all over us with Dumervil standing opposite of Suggs. I don't doubt that some runs will be broken past dumervil if we don't get a good safety back there on the strong side. Or two good safeties since I imagine Dumervil and Suggs will switch around and rotate in Upshaw to keep fresh.

Kruger basically has the one advantage of potential, of refining his technique and getting as good as dumervil is They both have a similar motor. Kruger definitely has the edge against the run, and he's a bit bigger. But Dumervil is a much better pass rusher than Kruger is a better run stopper. And Upshaw blows them both out of the water against the run anyway, so if a team is gashing us to that side we'll see a lot more of Upshaw.

Basically, I'd much rather have Dumervil + Upshaw than Kruger + Upshaw for the next 5 years. Don't forget Kruger is 27. Ravens linebackers have a trend of falling off after they go to another team. Kruger still has the prime of his career ahead of him, but whoever the Browns have opposite of Kruger:

it's not Terrell Suggs In fact, I think Kruger might be the Brown's best player on that front 7. I'm sure he'll miss Haloti and Suggs.

[Clutch Ravens]

Can't wait to see Dumervil get his first sack and hear the Bank erupt in to "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!"

[Tank 92]

There's no way to make this comparison at this point in time. Revisit 2 or 3 years from now and see how Freddie pans out away from the Ravens. As it sits right now Doom > Kruger.

[Ravenslifer]

No comparison - Doom had 17 sacks playing on the other side of Vonnie Holliday and Kenny Peterson. If you said "Who?", that's the right answer.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1364293280' post='1415733']
No comparison - Doom had 17 sacks playing on the other side of Vonnie Holliday and Kenny Peterson. If you said "Who?", that's the right answer.
[/quote]

well put, props!

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1364279293' post='1415712']
Pumped that we have Dumervil. Kruger is gone and we upgraded and got a pick.

/thread
[/quote]
This. And there's no question

[1/28/01]

One was massively overpaid for. One was a huge deal at the right time.

You figure out which is which and there's your answer.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

Kruger just needed a better pass rusher on the opposite side of him, then his productivity skyrockets when they slide protection away from him. Dumervil will probably be productive regardless

[Tiz]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364276569' post='1415700']
My point is Kruger is on the up and up and carried the ravens pass rush. He even made an impact in earlier games like Kansas City before Suggs came back. We won't realize we had a comparable player until he blows by oher next year.
[/quote]
If Kruger is simply comparable then advantage dumerville for being 2/3rd the pay.
As Nfln pointed out we signed dumerville, canty, spears for what Cleveland paid Kruger.

So if the two players are simply comparable then Kruger was over paid.

[Tiz]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364276569' post='1415700']
My point is Kruger is on the up and up and carried the ravens pass rush. He even made an impact in earlier games like Kansas City before Suggs came back. We won't realize we had a comparable player until he blows by oher next year.
[/quote]
If Kruger is simply comparable then advantage dumerville for being 2/3rd the pay.
As Nfln pointed out we signed dumerville, canty, spears for what Cleveland paid Kruger.

So if the two players are simply comparable then Kruger was over paid.

[Raven07]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]I don't think he was signed as insurance for Suggs, I think he was signed because of his ability to make plays, to be effective, to be disruptive and at least from his track record so far, is a All star pass rusher with a knack for making big plays. and Suggs along with Dumervil? that makes for one of ... if not ... the Most disruptive duo in the league. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANKmNVUcBxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUPPCrsPvHQ

[Raven07]

to add to what I said above..... Suggs and Dumervil I think could be better than Dumervil and Von Miller and that was a terror of a combo.

Kruger was (in my mind) a situational pass rusher, a player that really only had 1 year in which he did something and all the sudden teams are willing to jump on him and pay him the big money, all based on pretty much 1 year. Dumervil has established himself as one of the best PR in the league.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YODTeMZsDco

[A Fish Called Yanda]

I've said this like 20 times now, and will keep saying it in threads like these.

Kruger is as good as the pass rusher opposite him. Last year, he had 1.5 sacks before Suggs came back, and 7.5 afterwards. With his ability right now, he cannot handle being double teamed. He needs a dominant d-lineman or OLB on the line so that he is only rushing against a single man.

The reason he is good at pass rushing is because he is quick. He gets a great jump off the line, and uses his judo-chop moves to confuse the o-lineman as to which way he is rushing. If you have him competing against 2 o-linemen, he will not be able to get pressure. He does not overpower his opponents, he simply outruns them.

As others have said, we will see how well Kruger develops as he enters his prime NFL years. I think if he stayed in Baltimore, he would continue to improve on his stats.

I prefer Dumervil, especially at a lower price.

[jdynamite]

Dumervil is still only 29 although this season will be his 8th NFL season.
Kruger is 27 this will be his 5th season.

Kruger's entire Reg Season Career 15.5 sacks
Dumervil had that in one season ( Pre-Von miller when Dumervil was the man to double team ).

Thus far Kruger hasn't had to worry about facing various double teams and block schemes of teams because offenses focused on Suggs and Ngata ( even though they weren't 100% healthy ). Kruger didnt experience his increase in production until Suggs returned and became part time player.

Neither he nor Dumervil are capable run defenders.

[Legacy_0f_52]

[quote name='mgridda' timestamp='1364280515' post='1415716']
Paul Kruger is no joke. He's a very good player who just never got enough snaps because we favor veterans on this team. But really, he's not nearly as good of a pass rusher as Dumervil. Elvis is a monster out of the 3-4, and is not as bad in run support in the 3-4. So he will benefit from changing schemes, being about a yard back and having his head up to look around instead of getting sucked in. But yeah, Dumervil is on a whole other class in terms of pass rushing than Paul Kruger.

If they can run on our interior, then they'll win the game. But you'll be hard pressed to find a team that can pass all over us with Dumervil standing opposite of Suggs. I don't doubt that some runs will be broken past dumervil if we don't get a good safety back there on the strong side. Or two good safeties since I imagine Dumervil and Suggs will switch around and rotate in Upshaw to keep fresh.

Kruger basically has the one advantage of potential, of refining his technique and getting as good as dumervil is They both have a similar motor. Kruger definitely has the edge against the run, and he's a bit bigger. But Dumervil is a much better pass rusher than Kruger is a better run stopper. And Upshaw blows them both out of the water against the run anyway, so if a team is gashing us to that side we'll see a lot more of Upshaw.

Basically, I'd much rather have Dumervil + Upshaw than Kruger + Upshaw for the next 5 years. Don't forget Kruger is 27. Ravens linebackers have a trend of falling off after they go to another team. Kruger still has the prime of his career ahead of him, but whoever the Browns have opposite of Kruger:

it's not Terrell Suggs In fact, I think Kruger might be the Brown's best player on that front 7. I'm sure he'll miss Haloti and Suggs.
[/quote]BS we gave Kruger plenty of chances even Upshaw beat him out for the starting spot. Where the hell you been for 5 years

[SuRihtanil]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]

In the Ravens system Dumervil could become better than Suggs(pass rushing). I don't think he was signed for insurance he will start 16 games across from Suggs... and he could, and right now I am figuring he will lead the Ravens in sacks in 2013/14 season.

Paul Kruger was alright, but he did what he did because of the Ravens. I don't believe he will have the same impact on the Browns. Dumervil is a different animal he will shine on the Ravens D.

[H8R]

[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1364272405' post='1415666']
I am of the mindset that dumervil was signed as insurance for Suggs. The only reason we did not keep kruger was because we could not compete in a bidding war with the browns. Kruger has a brighter future, played run better than doom(says something) and may just be a better rusher in the long haul( lead all backers in pass rush productivity according to pff)
[/quote]

This is the biggest steaming pile Ive seen in a thread as of late. You got some Paul on your chin.