Defense Alignment Options for 2013

[CalvinSmoke]

A lot of these kind of posts where popping up last season, though I didn't agree with them then, I am on board this year. Here is why I think our beloved Ravens defense will line up with 4 down lineman more often this year:[list]
[*]Losing Dannell Ellerbe makes us a little thin at inside linebacker
[*]Ossie Newsome stated he wanted to strengthen our interior defense, he then signs Canty, a DT.
[*]Terrence Cody is our only NT
[*]Ngata, Mcphee, Jones, and Canty make a very explosive interior lineman rotation.
[*]Suggs could play the outside backer spot or the strong side DE spot
[*]Upshaw would flourish with pass rushing no longer being a main concern of his
[*]Adrian Hamilton, Mcadoo and whoever else we draft could fill that pass-rushing weak side DE spot.
[/list]

[wademan2636]

as of right now, we don't have too many players who would fit into a 4-3 as a defensive end or WLB. i dont like mcphee, jones, or canty as DEs. they're definitely DTs in a 4-3. i also think that we'll address ILB in the draft, so just because we have no depth right now, doesnt mean we'll switch. we'll start the season with plenty of depth, dont worry. ozzie always has a plan.

[arnie_uk]

We have the front four. Suggs ngata Jones Upshaw. With Canty and mcphee rotating in. We have no linebackers for it at all lol.

There's plenty of will linebackers in the draft. McClleallan could play the Sam. Stop the run cover the flat. We could maybe sign someone like dansby for the mike

[beasy2487]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1363274457' post='1395881']
A lot of these kind of posts where popping up last season, though I didn't agree with them then, I am on board this year. Here is why I think our beloved Ravens defense will line up with 4 down lineman more often this year:[list]
[*]Losing Dannell Ellerbe makes us a little thin at inside linebacker
[*]Ossie Newsome stated he wanted to strengthen our interior defense, he then signs Canty, a DT.
[*]Terrence Cody is our only NT
[*]Ngata, Mcphee, Jones, and Canty make a very explosive interior lineman rotation.
[*]Suggs could play the outside backer spot or the strong side DE spot
[*]Upshaw would flourish with pass rushing no longer being a main concern of his
[*]Adrian Hamilton, Mcadoo and whoever else we draft could fill that pass-rushing weak side DE spot.
[/list]
[/quote]

Would definitely be a waste of both Suggs and Ngata's talents to switch a 3-4. That said, we run both types of defense throughout the course of any given game.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1363276456' post='1395949']
Would definitely be a waste of both Suggs and Ngata's talents to switch a 3-4. That said, we run both types of defense throughout the course of any given game.
[/quote] I definately understand that we run everything in hames, from the 3-4 to the 4-6. But how would Ngata at DT be a waste of his talents? I thought that's where he could do the most damage, forcing interior pressure. If anything the people harping for him to be our NT would be a waste of his talents and athleticism.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1363276432' post='1395948']
We have the front four. Suggs ngata Jones Upshaw. With Canty and mcphee rotating in. We have no linebackers for it at all lol.

There's plenty of will linebackers in the draft. McClleallan could play the Sam. Stop the run cover the flat. We could maybe sign someone like dansby for the mike
[/quote]
That's exactly how i feel. I could also see Upshaw playing the sam for us. It's what he did for us last year anyway.

[arnie_uk]

Who would you have a lde then if not Upshaw? If you got a player like miller to play the sam with Upshaw in front of him setting the edge defending the run and keeping him clean, grab kasheem Greene in the second for wlb and signed dansby for the mike you have a lethal front seven.

I'm not sure if there would be anyone that would resemble a miller type role at 32 unless Jarvis Jones or damontre Moore fell to us.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1363276636' post='1395957']
I definately understand that we run everything in hames, from the 3-4 to the 4-6. But how would Ngata at DT be a waste of his talents? I thought that's where he could do the most damage, forcing interior pressure. If anything the people harping for him to be our NT would be a waste of his talents and athleticism.
[/quote]

Imho it's his versatility that makes him truly dangerous. You can put him at DT, DE, and NT depending on the set and beat O-lines both physically and mentally.

[redrum52]

3-4 gives you more options defensively especially the way this team uses multiple fronts. I don't think they change that.

[bMore Heathen]

I think the point is we don't have the LBs to play an effective 3-4 anymore. Factor in the fact that there are like 14 running it now, it's harder to find those guys.
Suggs would be just as dominate, he plays at least half of his snaps with his hand in the dirt already. Ngata would be more effective going against Gs instead of Ts.

[Ngata Chance]

As of right now it doesn't make sense to say what we should do. Lets discuss this more after the draft, and we will have a better idea of the personel we will be dealing with and how they will benefit us.

Also, why pigeonhole ourselves into one scheme? Hybrid sems quite effective, doesn't it?

[Bltravens]

Multiple front defense. Also it doesn't even really matter 43 or 34 anymore. 65% of the game is played in the nickel these days anyways. Its almost more important to play with formation variations in the nickel than it is in a "base" defense now.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='bMore Heathen' timestamp='1363278560' post='1396040']
I think the point is we don't have the LBs to play an effective 3-4 anymore. Factor in the fact that there are like 14 running it now, it's harder to find those guys.
Suggs would be just as dominate, he plays at least half of his snaps with his hand in the dirt already. Ngata would be more effective going against Gs instead of Ts.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I am thinking. We had pass rushers for days back when only about 16 teams ran the 3-4 base defense. Now the majority of the league runs it.
[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1363279143' post='1396063']
As of right now it doesn't make sense to say what we should do. Lets discuss this more after the draft, and we will have a better idea of the personel we will be dealing with and how they will benefit us.

Also, why pigeonhole ourselves into one scheme? Hybrid sems quite effective, doesn't it?
[/quote]
Things will look more clear after the draft your right. It's just speculation, really that's all this board is. That's like the mock drafts we make before free agency. Just small talk.

But on to your second thought, I'm not trying ot pigeonhole us, it's just what I'm thinking will become our most run base defense. Not trying to make it seem like the Ravens should run a 4-3 only. And besides I am almost certain Peas ran a 4-3 in his years in New England.

[Bltravens]

Pees ran the 34 in NE.

[beanfigger]

It's great to have options, and I'm sure we'll mix up our looks quite a bit during games as we always do, but it's very rare to completely change a base defensive philosophy without changing coordinators. I'd assume we're sticking with the 3-4.

[Yatagarasu]

We're a multi-front defense.

We've down some 4-3, which is all basically Suggs with his hands down.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1363277252' post='1395982']
Who would you have a lde then if not Upshaw? If you got a player like miller to play the sam with Upshaw in front of him setting the edge defending the run and keeping him clean, grab kasheem Greene in the second for wlb and signed dansby for the mike you have a lethal front seven.

I'm not sure if there would be anyone that would resemble a miller type role at 32 unless Jarvis Jones or damontre Moore fell to us.
[/quote]
I think McPhee could play LDE really well, or even Canty. We could move into more if a 4-3 under front with Canty/McPhee- Jones- Ngata- Suggs at weak DE/Leo. Upshaw at SAM, McClain/Bynes at Mike, and insert draft pick at Will. It would be a very different philosophy.

[Yatagarasu]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363331255' post='1397939']

I think McPhee could play LDE really well, or even Canty. We could move into more if a 4-3 under front with Canty/McPhee- Jones- Ngata- Suggs at weak DE/Leo. Upshaw at SAM, McClain/Bynes at Mike, and insert draft pick at Will. It would be a very different philosophy.
[/quote]

4-3 Leo = 3-4 Defense

Exception Leo doesn't drop up in coverage like Suggs can. That's where the flexibility comes in for 3-4 Defense.

4-3 Leo uses a 3-4 set using 4-3 players

[TheRavenouseD2008]

guys something tells me some dont know the story about the fight that landed pees back as LB coach from assistant , he wanted to run a 4-3 and Darth Idiot said no its my team , they had all the personel but Billecheat wants his way and got it . I am interested to see what he does with a 43 with out team some of you forget we still Got Bynes as well , Auburn uses a mix of 34 and 43 he played mainly 43 sets his jr year so he has good experience, the other question mark is the health of McClain if he is not 85% by draft we need to ask him to take a cut " restructure" it into a stip based so he gets the same and take what we got from moving part to the stip and use it to lure a nice mlb thats 43 experienced.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1363335638' post='1397975']
4-3 Leo = 3-4 Defense

Exception Leo doesn't drop up in coverage like Suggs can. That's where the flexibility comes in for 3-4 Defense.

4-3 Leo uses a 3-4 set using 4-3 players
[/quote]

It's actually kind of a hybrid. There are 2 players with 2 gap responsibilities in the 4-3 under, the Strong side DE who plays 5T and the NT who lines up over the center. This frees up the weakside 3T and DE/Leo to have 1v1 matchups which can be exploited.

In reality the lines have really blurred between the 4-3 and 3-4. What defines a defense is gap responsibilities more than personnel. Like the Texans who have 3-4 personnel but have 1-gap responsibilities up front.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363368184' post='1398566']
It's actually kind of a hybrid. There are 2 players with 2 gap responsibilities in the 4-3 under, the Strong side DE who plays 5T and the NT who lines up over the center. This frees up the weakside 3T and DE/Leo to have 1v1 matchups which can be exploited.

In reality the lines have really blurred between the 4-3 and 3-4. What defines a defense is gap responsibilities more than personnel. Like the Texans who have 3-4 personnel but have 1-gap responsibilities up front.
[/quote]

It's hard when you only have one lineman who can two gap and hold his ground, and we don't have the rangy stud linebackers for a Texans/Cowboys type attacking 3-4 (which is basically a 5-2).

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1363369381' post='1398588']
It's hard when you only have one lineman who can two gap and hold his ground, and we don't have the rangy stud linebackers for a Texans/Cowboys type attacking 3-4 (which is basically a 5-2).
[/quote]

I think Canty can two gap for us. Wade Philips 3-4 is really a 4-3 with a standup weakside DE, but that is different that what I am referring to. The 4-3 under is not what Philips runs although there are similarities. It's what Pete Carroll run in Seattle, where he has Red Bryant playing 5T and Clemons or Irvin playing the Leo.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363368184' post='1398566']


It's actually kind of a hybrid. There are 2 players with 2 gap responsibilities in the 4-3 under, the Strong side DE who plays 5T and the NT who lines up over the center. This frees up the weakside 3T and DE/Leo to have 1v1 matchups which can be exploited.

In reality the lines have really blurred between the 4-3 and 3-4. What defines a defense is gap responsibilities more than personnel. Like the Texans who have 3-4 personnel but have 1-gap responsibilities up front.
[/quote]youve described what denver run, correct?

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363371019' post='1398644']
I think Canty can two gap for us. Wade Philips 3-4 is really a 4-3 with a standup weakside DE, but that is different that what I am referring to. The 4-3 under is not what Philips runs although there are similarities. It's what Pete Carroll run in Seattle, where he has Red Bryant playing 5T and Clemons or Irvin playing the Leo.
[/quote]

I'm starting to form a different opinion, while it would be nice to not to give any ground up front we have the flexibility and OLB's to force in or spill out, but we don't have the inside linebackers who can clean up... yet. Ellerbe was a beast in that regard.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1363373314' post='1398726']


I'm starting to form a different opinion, while it would be nice to not to give any ground up front we have the flexibility and OLB's to force in or spill out, but we don't have the inside linebackers who can clean up... yet. Ellerbe was a beast in that regard.
[/quote]
I agree. ILB is a glaring weakness right now. Im hoping we pick up Dansby and get someone in the draft as well.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363374707' post='1398780']

I agree. ILB is a glaring weakness right now. Im hoping we pick up Dansby and get someone in the draft as well.
[/quote]he would be a great pick up. Or brad jones who is still out there, I think...

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1363279143' post='1396063']
As of right now it doesn't make sense to say what we should do. Lets discuss this more after the draft, and we will have a better idea of the personel we will be dealing with and how they will benefit us.

Also, why pigeonhole ourselves into one scheme? Hybrid sems quite effective, doesn't it?
[/quote]
This

[ClintLB8]

LDE - Courtney Upshaw
LDT - Arthur Jones/Pernell McPhee, Chris Canty
RDT - Haloti Ngata, Marcus Spears
RDE - Terrell Suggs

SLB - Jameel McClain, Albert McClellan
MLB - Arthur Brown, Josh Bynes
WLB - NEED, Nigel Carr

If we could get Arthur Brown then the 4-3 could work but Id prefer to stay 3-4

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='ClintLB8' timestamp='1363407699' post='1399968']
LDE - Courtney Upshaw
LDT - Arthur Jones/Pernell McPhee, Chris Canty
RDT - Haloti Ngata, Marcus Spears
RDE - Terrell Suggs

SLB - Jameel McClain, Albert McClellan
MLB - Arthur Brown, Josh Bynes
WLB - NEED, Nigel Carr

If we could get Arthur Brown then the 4-3 could work but Id prefer to stay 3-4
[/quote]
I would swap Canty for Spears so Canty backs-up Ngata.

[YankeeRaven]

I don't hope so, I like the 3-4 defense and Ozzie will surely signs and draft players who will make sense for a 3-4 defense.