I Wonder What the AFC North Rivals Think About the Ravens Now?

[Medications]

Yeah I really loved the way Boldin played man, he's really not immediately replaceable. That 4th & 29 doesn't happen without him either

[Ravensfan23]

Nobody is saying Boldin will be easily replaced. Yes we don't win the SB without him, but we also don't win without Smith, Jones, Dickson, Rice and others. Boldin was the man and I hope he does well in SF, but he wasn't the end all be all of this passing offense.

Bltravens, that's exactly what Caldwell will do. Spread the offense out and allow Flacco to operate in the style he's comfortable in. The short pass game will be an extension of the run game. Torrey and Jacoby will continue to take the top off the defense, with Torrey being a more rounded WR. Dickson and Pitta will be featured even more imo.

Under Cam the offense was asked to win individual matchups all over the field, that's what made Boldin so important to this offense. Under Caldwell imo this offense will be run on more speed, quickness, tempo and scheme. You make a fair point about the not winning against press man. But that is where a creative OC comes into play. Stacked releases, bunch formations, option routes, crosses, screens, picks etc is what will help that. Even the best offenses with the most talented WRs use these concepts and the Ravens will start to as well.

I'm not saying you hitch your wagon to anyone. If there is a improvement to be had at WR by all means add him. However I cation you against just writing these guys off because you haven't seen much, because the reality of the situation is they haven't gotten many opportunities.

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1364596913' post='1419760']
Oh I love it, I just find it funny that of all reasons he could given why the Steelers would be the team to beat, the one he gave was that they weren't scared. Sounds like to me they've actually saw waht we've known since Flacco and Harbs arrived. The Ravens are the better team. That not being scared talk sounds more like something the upstart Bengals would say, not a team who won 2 SBs in the last 5 years.


As far as staying on top, that's exactly what Ozzie is doing. That respect that this fanbase wants I hope it never comes. As Mr B said at the victory parade, I don't know how many Championships it'll take for this city to lose that chip on our shoulders but I hope we never lose it. The Ravens will win the Super Bowl again despite all the talk about how too much was loss. Then everyone will love us. But I hope we never become the over loved Steelers, Patriots, Cowboys or any team Peyton is on. We'll earn their respect and then shove it right back down their throats.
[/quote]


While I agree with the winning more SBs, I do not agree with the love part. I just do not think the football community is ever going to really embrace the Ravens regardless of how many accolades we accumulate. Well at least not for a long time. We are too much the rough and tumble, blue collar, "little" brother, small market team. We are an old football city but the Ravens are a new franchise. The older teams (and their fans) that have really long histories have that "old boys" mentality, and we are not part of that "old boy" club. Add to that, the fact that even though we are a "new kid on the block" we are every bit as tough, and as good as all of those older teams with their storied history's and often beat them on their home turf. I understand why the fans of those teams find us annoying, we are just pushing our way to the big boy table and they do not like it. Heh.

[Tiz]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1364646829' post='1420120']



While I agree with the winning more SBs, I do not agree with the love part. I just do not think the football community is ever going to really embrace the Ravens regardless of how many accolades we accumulate. Well at least not for a long time. We are too much the rough and tumble, blue collar, "little" brother, small market team. We are an old football city but the Ravens are a new franchise. The older teams (and their fans) that have really long histories have that "old boys" mentality, and we are not part of that "old boy" club. Add to that, the fact that even though we are a "new kid on the block" we are every bit as tough, and as good as all of those older teams with their storied history's and often beat them on their home turf. I understand why the fans of those teams find us annoying, we are just pushing our way to the big boy table and they do not like it. Heh.
[/quote]

Seems what will happen is that winning another one will basically make it like New England where other fans hate the ravens even more

It may get the media to respect us if it happens in the next 2-3 yrs but definitely won't create media darlings or a nationwide love fest

[display name]

We seem to be getting back to the Ravens of old, with our new defensive editions. The Steelers are in decline, and Cleveland and Cinci are potentially on the rise.
Should be interesting to see who wins the toughest division in football.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1364646829' post='1420120']



While I agree with the winning more SBs, I do not agree with the love part. I just do not think the football community is ever going to really embrace the Ravens regardless of how many accolades we accumulate. Well at least not for a long time. We are too much the rough and tumble, blue collar, "little" brother, small market team. We are an old football city but the Ravens are a new franchise. The older teams (and their fans) that have really long histories have that "old boys" mentality, and we are not part of that "old boy" club. Add to that, the fact that even though we are a "new kid on the block" we are every bit as tough, and as good as all of those older teams with their storied history's and often beat them on their home turf. I understand why the fans of those teams find us annoying, we are just pushing our way to the big boy table and they do not like it. Heh.
[/quote]

Agreed. When I say love, i mean for the moment. 3 striagth AFC Championship appearances, 3 striagth AFC North Titles, 6 straight playoff appearances, back to back Super Bowl wins and the Ozzie just schooling all other GMs, there will be some false love for the Ravens. But as you suggest it won't last long. They'll find something to hate us about a week after winning the Super Bowl again. But I love it.

Pushing our way to the big boy table huh? I love it. I think the media would much rather the Ravens go back to being thugs and criminals. I know many don't like this, but I think the Ravens will draft Te'o and that's gonna give the haters plenty of fuel. But the Ravens won't care, they'll just continue to take over the NFL.

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

What the rest of the AFCN is thinking:
[list]
[*]Aw dang- they did really fire Cam!
[*]Wait Doom and Suggs???
[*]Pierce and Rice following Leach, yikes......
[*]Why do we have to play these guys twice a year?!?!?!
[/list]

[Grendelwulf21]

[quote name='Neal Could Block the SUN!!' timestamp='1365017788' post='1423765']
What the rest of the AFCN is thinking:[list]
[*]Aw dang- they did really fire Cam!
[*]Wait Doom and Suggs???
[*]Pierce and Rice following Leach, yikes......
[*]Why do we have to play these guys twice a year?!?!?!
[/list]
[/quote]
- Webb's Back?! Noooo

[BrentWrightRavensFan]

'' We Got Them Right Where We Went Them.''

[Yatagarasu]

Our Losses:
Ray Lewis - Field General
Ed Reed - Leader of the secondary
Matt Birk - Leader of the OL
Anquan Boldin - Leader of WR Corps/Beast
Paul Kruger - Our best pass rusher last year
Dannelle Ellerbe - Our best ILB
Bernard Pollard - Physical in the box SS
Cary Williams - Our top CB after Webb was hurt
Brendan Ayanbadejo - Leader of the STs

everyone thinks we're just cutting a bunch of over-the-hill players, but we actually lost a lot of leadership for our young team. I assume Flacco is going to have his hands full now as a full-time leader of the team. Defensive leadership is probably going to Suggs, who is actually a very emotional and active leader. We also added Huff and Dumervil, who can also guide the new wave of young players.

Our Additions:
Chris Canty - Underrated DE
Marcus Spears - Depth for all roles
Elvis Dumervil - Best FA pass rusher in the market
Michael Huff - Underrated safety who has leadership qualities.

[jaege]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1364598590' post='1419799']


I think you and other will be pleasantly suprised at how Reed, Doss and Dickson will step up in this offense.
[/quote]


I will be pleasantly surprised if Doss can catch more than two easy passes in a row.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1365033965' post='1424087']
I will be pleasantly surprised if Doss can catch more than two easy passes in a row.
[/quote]

Well he will have his opportunity. He never got serious time on the field before because he played the same roll as Boldin.

Don't forget that Flacco asked Ozzie to get Doss, now while that doesn't mean he's a sure fire success he does mean that Flacco liked what he saw in him.

[jaege]

[quote name='CARavensFan' timestamp='1365044539' post='1424358']
Well he will have his opportunity. He never got serious time on the field before because he played the same roll as Boldin.

Don't forget that Flacco asked Ozzie to get Doss, now while that doesn't mean he's a sure fire success he does mean that Flacco liked what he saw in him.
[/quote]

Well, I will give that Joe is a great QB, but lets not assume that makes him a good judge of the potential in other players.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1363873730' post='1408583']
With the retirement of Ray Lewis and Matt Birk and now...with all of these Ravens players (i.e. Boldin, Kruger, Ellerbe, C. Williams, and now Ed Reed...smh!) making a mass exodus out of Baltimore; I was wondering about what our AFC North rivals could possibly be thinking about which team will run the AFC now? Your thoughts.

~Mili
[/quote]
No matter what happens this off season the team has a big... target on its back because they are Superbowl Champs.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1365070946' post='1424535']
Well, I will give that Joe is a great QB, but lets not assume that makes him a good judge of the potential in other players.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that Joe is a good evaluator of talent, I was merely reminding that if he thought hihgly enough of Doss to askj Ozzie to draft him that he might give Doss a little extra attention now that he is going to get a shot at starting. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see him step up in a big way.

[Tiz]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1365033051' post='1424078']
Our Losses:
Ray Lewis - Field General
Ed Reed - Leader of the secondary
Matt Birk - Leader of the OL
Anquan Boldin - Leader of WR Corps/Beast
Paul Kruger - Our best pass rusher last year
Dannelle Ellerbe - Our best ILB
Bernard Pollard - Physical in the box SS
Cary Williams - Our top CB after Webb was hurt
Brendan Ayanbadejo - Leader of the STs

everyone thinks we're just cutting a bunch of over-the-hill players, but we actually lost a lot of leadership for our young team. I assume Flacco is going to have his hands full now as a full-time leader of the team. Defensive leadership is probably going to Suggs, who is actually a very emotional and active leader. We also added Huff and Dumervil, who can also guide the new wave of young players.

Our Additions:
Chris Canty - Underrated DE
Marcus Spears - Depth for all roles
Elvis Dumervil - Best FA pass rusher in the market
Michael Huff - Underrated safety who has leadership qualities.
[/quote]

As you pointed out and has been discussed frequently
Defensively leadership was ray and reed but at the same time everything those two embodied also is seen in Suggs and ngata
Offensively rice talked about leadership and I would compare flacco to eli in this manner. Eli leadership ability was drawn into question by those like tiki barber and other media pundits. However the realization after tiki left was that tiki stymied eli due t tiki being overly vocal.
We've all seen soundfx and other discussions about flacco from the players. Just because he isn't projected as this emotional guy he is viewed as a leader by his teammates and does step up on the sidelines.

[jaege]

[quote name='CARavensFan' timestamp='1365083014' post='1424622']
I'm not saying that Joe is a good evaluator of talent, I was merely reminding that if he thought hihgly enough of Doss to askj Ozzie to draft him that he might give Doss a little extra attention now that he is going to get a shot at starting. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see him step up in a big way.
[/quote]


I understand there are a number of fans who would not be surprised to see him step up. They, in fact, are expecting it. I, on the other hand, will be very very surprised. Pleasantly surprised if it happens, but very surprised all the same. I just do not think he has what it takes to be much more than a 4th WR.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1365089709' post='1424741']
I understand there are a number of fans who would not be surprised to see him step up. They, in fact, are expecting it. I, on the other hand, will be very very surprised. Pleasantly surprised if it happens, but very surprised all the same.[b] I just do not think he has what it takes to be much more than a 4th WR.[/b]
[/quote]

This would be where I disagree with you, based on what I've seen the main reason that Doss hasn't gottne as much attention is due to the fact that Boldin was playing the slot/possession role in the offense. If memory serves the few times he's gotten consistent playing time was either when Boldin was out or near the end of games. In the former case he gets thrust into the starting lineup without having the benefit of working with Joe the way the starters do all offseason (or the gameplan has changed because Boldin is out) and in the latter case he's working with mostly backups and the offense is more conservative to protect the lead or just finish the game (depending on the score).

I agree with you that we haven't seen very much from him, my arguement is that I remember what I saw from him when he was coming out into the draft and I thought he would be a good player for us when we picked him, he just has been playing behind a player who fills his ideal role in the offense until now.

[jaege]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1365083041' post='1424624']
As you pointed out and has been discussed frequently
Defensively leadership was ray and reed but at the same time everything those two embodied also is seen in Suggs and ngata
Offensively rice talked about leadership and I would compare flacco to eli in this manner. Eli leadership ability was drawn into question by those like tiki barber and other media pundits. However the realization after tiki left was that tiki stymied eli due t tiki being overly vocal.
We've all seen soundfx and other discussions about flacco from the players. Just because he isn't projected as this emotional guy he is viewed as a leader by his teammates and does step up on the sidelines.
[/quote]


I am not sure what is expected of the "leader", but I am certain Joe will never have the boisterous aggressive attitude that Ray did. It is just not his personality. Ray was flashy, passionate, brash, an extrovert. Joe is quiet, reserved, cool headed, definitely an introvert. That has nothing to do with his QB capabilities, just his personality. Staying cool under fire is actually a good quality in a QB.

If we are looking for someone to fire up the troops and the fans then Suggs would be closer to the mark.

Now if we are talking about football knowledge, well it is going to take anyone some time to accumulate 17+ years of knowldge about the game. Ray and Reed were in a class by themselves. Although we still have a good deal of knowledge on the field. Even Joe, with just the 5 years under his belt, does pretty well in adjusting to what he sees on the field. I am not worried.

[Tiz]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1365090425' post='1424756']



I am not sure what is expected of the "leader", but I am certain Joe will never have the boisterous aggressive attitude that Ray did. It is just not his personality. Ray was flashy, passionate, brash, an extrovert. Joe is quiet, reserved, cool headed, definitely an introvert. That has nothing to do with his QB capabilities, just his personality. Staying cool under fire is actually a good quality in a QB.

If we are looking for someone to fire up the troops and the fans then Suggs would be closer to the mark.

Now if we are talking about football knowledge, well it is going to take anyone some time to accumulate 17+ years of knowldge about the game. Ray and Reed were in a class by themselves. Although we still have a good deal of knowledge on the field. Even Joe, with just the 5 years under his belt, does pretty well in adjusting to what he sees on the field. I am not worried.
[/quote]

So you're posting a long winded version of "I'm not sure how this plays out" cool

Just curious as to why people think flacco has to be boisterous to lead

[jaege]

[quote name='CARavensFan' timestamp='1365089992' post='1424743']
This would be where I disagree with you, based on what I've seen the main reason that Doss hasn't gottne as much attention is due to the fact that Boldin was playing the slot/possession role in the offense. If memory serves the few times he's gotten consistent playing time was either when Boldin was out or near the end of games. In the former case he gets thrust into the starting lineup without having the benefit of working with Joe the way the starters do all offseason (or the gameplan has changed because Boldin is out) and in the latter case he's working with mostly backups and the offense is more conservative to protect the lead or just finish the game (depending on the score).

I agree with you that we haven't seen very much from him, my arguement is that I remember what I saw from him when he was coming out into the draft and I thought he would be a good player for us when we picked him, he just has been playing behind a player who fills his ideal role in the offense until now.
[/quote]

As I said, I understand there are fans that have high expectations of Doss. I am agreeing to disagree. I do not have a crystal ball that I am basing my opinion on anymore than you and my opinion is flexible. Lets say, I am not so sure of his poor skills that I would be opposed to him playing. It is just that from the small amount of work I have seen of Doss, I have been less than impressed.

The only way either of us will know for sure is if he gets the chance to start for a good number of games. I do look forward to seeing him and the other young guys get that chance to play. Either way, that would put this debate to rest.

[CARavensFan]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1365092573' post='1424784']
As I said, I understand there are fans that have high expectations of Doss. I am agreeing to disagree. I do not have a crystal ball that I am basing my opinion on anymore than you and my opinion is flexible. Lets say, I am not so sure of his poor skills that I would be opposed to him playing. It is just that from the small amount of work I have seen of Doss, I have been less than impressed.

The only way either of us will know for sure is if he gets the chance to start for a good number of games. I do look forward to seeing him and the other young guys get that chance to play. Either way, that would put this debate to rest.
[/quote]

I would agree with you as well, I guess I would just say that I am glass half-full guy, banking on his potential in this instance based on what I've seen in the past (mainly in his college years).

I also agree that debates like these ultimately need to be resolved by the players when the season starts, so hears to getting to the season so we can find out!

[jaege]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1365090650' post='1424761']
So you're posting a long winded version of "I'm not sure how this plays out" cool

Just curious as to why people think flacco has to be boisterous to lead
[/quote]

I never said that I didnt know how this plays out, (although none of us really do) I said I don't undertand what is meant by "leader". Nor did I say or even imply that Joe has to be boisterous to lead. I did imply that he would have to be boisterous to duplicate Lewis' style of leading. Two very differnt things.

I see this as two seperate issues.

1. Who will lead and
2. Who will replace Ray's passion

It doesnt have to be the same guy. Joe can lead just fine with his cool headed style. As I clearly stated, that is a valuable trait in a QB. I prefer a QB that keeps his wits rather than loses his head every time that a little pressure gets applied. He will just just have to leave the firey "rah rah" passion to someone else. I do not see that as a problem.