Cap space discussions and updates

[Moderator 3]

I think I remember we restructured Ngata last year...don't know why that's sticking in my mind. I know that a big chunk of their cap hits are the pro-rated bonuses and we can't restructure those.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363745274' post='1405744']


Somebody better touch Suggs' contract along with Ngata's. Suggs cap hits in 2013 & 2014 are $13mil & $12.4mil respectively. Ngata's 2013-2015 cap hits are $11.5mil, $16mil & $16mil.
[/quote]unless Suggs gains his dpoy form I see him cut next season.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1363785298' post='1406290']
I think I remember we restructured Ngata last year...don't know why that's sticking in my mind. I know that a big chunk of their cap hits are the pro-rated bonuses and we can't restructure those.
[/quote]we didn't, we done yanda, ngata got a split bonus, hence the big jump.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1363785613' post='1406295']
we didn't, we done yanda, ngata got a split bonus, hence the big jump.
[/quote]

Ah, I knew there was something.

[blazeon32]

Both Sizzle and Ngata should never have gotten such monster contracts. Defense shouldn't be holding the team back like this. I think it was done because Ozzie wasn't sure Flacco would work out. WHy else did he wait so long to give him a new contract. I believe the thought was if Joe didn't work out at least they still had two of their best defensive starters. Now Joe has won a Superbowl despite the defense which ranked only 17th in the league, and the team is suffering for it. Players on defense should never take up so much of your cap room because this is an offensive minded system in the NFL now. Put that money into your offense and find quality players on defense that aren't superstars. It's the only way to keep up with the Brady's and Manning's of the world. It's much more difficult to build a great offense then a great defense.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

[quote name='blazeon32' timestamp='1363785912' post='1406297']
Both Sizzle and Ngata should never have gotten such monster contracts. Defense shouldn't be holding the team back like this. I think it was done because Ozzie wasn't sure Flacco would work out. WHy else did he wait so long to give him a new contract. I believe the thought was if Joe didn't work out at least they still had two of their best defensive starters. Now Joe has won a Superbowl despite the defense which ranked only 17th in the league, and the team is suffering for it. Players on defense should never take up so much of your cap room because this is an offensive minded system in the NFL now. Put that money into your offense and find quality players on defense that aren't superstars. It's the only way to keep up with the Brady's and Manning's of the world. It's much more difficult to build a great offense then a great defense.
[/quote]

How many Super Bowls have Brady and Manning won in the last 5 years again? You need some superstars on your defense in order to build a team around. We did it with Ray for years. You can't expect to lowball the crap out of amazing athletes and have them stick around. Sometimes you make mistakes and give people a big contract just to see them underperform, but it's a risk you've got to take.

Suggs is one of the best OLBs in the game, and Ngata is one of the best DEs. Though they haven't looked as stellar in recent years, at the time they completely deserved the contracts that they received, and I was happy to see the Ravens give them the money.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='Brandon22' timestamp='1363782644' post='1406277']
at the moment we have 10.252 million with him on the books so around 16-17 million when he is off the books
[/quote]

That is incorrect. Contrary to many media reports, Boldin is off of their books and has been since the trade was officially process on 3/12.

They are presently around $8.5M under, will be around $7.5M under once Spears is added in (if reports of his contract numbers are correct), it's be around $7.5M.

[redlobster]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1363790162' post='1406363']
That is incorrect. Contrary to many media reports, Boldin is off of their books and has been since the trade was officially process on 3/12.

They are presently around $8.5M under, will be around $7.5M under once Spears is added in (if reports of his contract numbers are correct), it's be around $7.5M.
[/quote]

Last I heard he was not off the books until he took his physical, how could he do that while he was in Africa?

[A Fish Called Yanda]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1363790349' post='1406364']
Last I heard he was not off the books until he took his physical, how could he do that while he was in Africa?
[/quote]

http://russellstreetreport.com/salary-cap/

[rmw10]

Latest number I've seen is $8.653M including Boldin's savings.

[cwfRaven]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1363751176' post='1405973']
Here's a nice breakdown of the ins and outs of the NFL Salary Cap:

[url="http://russellstreetreport.com/cap-faqs/"]http://russellstreet...t.com/cap-faqs/[/url]
[/quote]

Thank you! That's exactly was I was looking for to make sense of all the number crunching.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1363790349' post='1406364']
Last I heard he was not off the books until he took his physical, how could he do that while he was in Africa?
[/quote]

Yes, that was based on PFT being the first to report it that way. I think most others just picked it up from there, but I can tell you that he isn't included - and hasn't been since the trade was officially turned into the NFL.

[url="http://russellstreetreport.com/boldin-has-been-off-the-ravens-salary-cap-since-march-12/"]http://russellstreetreport.com/boldin-has-been-off-the-ravens-salary-cap-since-march-12/[/url]

[redlobster]

I wonder if we see Oher, Pitta , and Arthur Jones get extensions to lower their cap number this year. Oher is counting just about 5 million this year while Pitta and Jones are tendered at 2 million each.

I also would not be suprised at all to see Leach gone, he has a high number and if Jameel can't come back fully or the Ravens get a couple of ILB in free agency and the draft he could/should be gone as well, between the two they are at almost 9 million cap this year. (now I know that cutting them won't free all of that money)

[Medications]

So if the rookie minimum is $405,000 and we have 12 draft picks, that means at least $4.8M of our current available cap space must be reserved for post-draft rookie contracts?

[rmw10]

[quote name='Medications' timestamp='1363803087' post='1406559']
So if the rookie minimum is $405,000 and we have 12 draft picks, that means at least $4.8M of our current available cap space must be reserved for post-draft rookie contracts?
[/quote]

Most likely less, due to the rule of 51. Essentially, just the pro-rated bonus for the later round picks will be added to the cap.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1363778691' post='1406260']
I think part of the problem is that their contracts have already been restructured once and now we're "paying the piper". Based on their age, injury history, and current contract structure, neither one is really a good candidate.
[/quote]

Not really. Their contracts were structured with no dead money in 2014 for Suggs (his last year) and none in 2014 and 2015 for Ngata (last two years). So they could be cut, if need be, without any impact to the cap so that gives the team leverage. At that point, restructuring becomes "free", so to speak.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363794730' post='1406440']
Latest number I've seen is $8.653M including Boldin's savings.
[/quote]

Where are you guys getting that figure? Latest numbers I see for the Ravens is ~$113.5mil with the salary cap being $123.9mil ... so about $10.4mil left.

[rmw10]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363804301' post='1406585']
Where are you guys getting that figure? Latest numbers I see for the Ravens is ~$113.5mil with the salary cap being $123.9mil ... so about $10.4mil left.
[/quote]

I'm betting that figure didn't account for Spears yet. Also, the Ravens chose to release Pollard with a post-June 1 designation, so they only save $500K this year instead of the reported $1M.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363804802' post='1406590']


I'm betting that figure didn't account for Spears yet. Also, the Ravens chose to release Pollard with a post-June 1 designation, so they only save $500K this year instead of the reported $1M.
[/quote]
Wouldn't a post June 1 designation push his dead money to next year meaning more cap space in 2013?

[rmw10]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1363804984' post='1406592']
Wouldn't a post June 1 designation push his dead money to next year meaning more cap space in 2013?
[/quote]

Immediately, no. Post June 1 means that's Pollard's cap hit stays with the team until June 1. Right now, he's only saving us $500K against the cap. After June 1, the Ravens will save another $2M. Most dead money from Pollard's contract will hit in 2014, but as of now, his salary still counts.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363804802' post='1406590']
I'm betting that figure didn't account for Spears yet. Also, the Ravens chose to release Pollard with a post-June 1 designation, so they only save $500K this year instead of the reported $1M.
[/quote]

No, Spear's $1.2 million and Pollard's $2.75mil hits are accounted for in the $113.5mil figure I see.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363805238' post='1406598']


No, Spear's $1.2 million and Pollard's $2.75mil hits are accounted for in the $113.5mil figure I see.
[/quote]go read the articles ravor posted, he's the guy who writes them. You'll find your answer there

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='B-more Ravor' timestamp='1363790162' post='1406363']


That is incorrect. Contrary to many media reports, Boldin is off of their books and has been since the trade was officially process on 3/12.

They are presently around $8.5M under, will be around $7.5M under once Spears is added in (if reports of his contract numbers are correct), it's be around $7.5M.
[/quote]here.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363805202' post='1406596']


Immediately, no. Post June 1 means that's Pollard's cap hit stays with the team until June 1. Right now, he's only saving us $500K against the cap. After June 1, the Ravens will save another $2M. Most dead money from Pollard's contract will hit in 2014, but as of now, his salary still counts.
[/quote]
I guess that money can go towards signing draft picks then.

[rmw10]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363805238' post='1406598']
No, Spear's $1.2 million and Pollard's $2.75mil hits are accounted for in the $113.5mil figure I see.
[/quote]

Here are the numbers I currently have:

Ravens' Adjusted Cap: $123,678,377
Top 51 Players: $106,894,113
Total Dead Money: $8,131,431
Cap Space Left: $8,652,833

[rmw10]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363805238' post='1406598']
No, Spear's $1.2 million and Pollard's $2.75mil hits are accounted for in the $113.5mil figure I see.
[/quote]

Double Post

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363806072' post='1406608']
Here are the numbers I currently have:

Ravens' Adjusted Cap: $123,678,377
Top 51 Players: $106,894,113
Total Dead Money: $8,131,431
Cap Space Left: $8,652,833
[/quote]

The Top 51 Players and Dead money I have are about $300,000 different than yours which is to be expected (depends on which source you get the salary #'s from).

The only thing I can think of as being a discrepancy big enough to account for our different numbers is there are like 5 or 6 guys making minimum ($405k each) who I haven't seen as definitely coming back (hadn't seen info on them). that might not be accounted for (practice squad guys that I know they'd cut if they needed to).

Gotta head off to work, but will recheck my spreadsheet during lunch to see where the issue is.

[rmw10]

[quote name='DMH_in_WA' timestamp='1363807046' post='1406627']
The Top 51 Players and Dead money I have are about $300,000 different than yours which is to be expected (depends on which source you get the salary #'s from).

The only thing I can think of as being a discrepancy big enough to account for our different numbers is there are like 5 or 6 guys making minimum ($405k each) who I haven't seen as definitely coming back (hadn't seen info on them). that might not be accounted for (practice squad guys that I know they'd cut if they needed to).

Gotta head off to work, but will recheck my spreadsheet during lunch to see where the issue is.
[/quote]

My source is accounting for ERFA tenders which have not been given yet, but will be eventually, so maybe that's where the issue is. Also, my number will be similar to yours when Pollard's savings kick in on June 1 so maybe that's a discrepancy as well.

[B-more Ravor]

[quote name='Medications' timestamp='1363803087' post='1406559']
So if the rookie minimum is $405,000 and we have 12 draft picks, that means at least $4.8M of our current available cap space must be reserved for post-draft rookie contracts?
[/quote]\

See here for an explanation of how the rookie cap and the overall cap work together:

[url="http://russellstreetreport.com/an-explanation-of-how-the-rookie-salary-cap-really-work/"]http://russellstreetreport.com/an-explanation-of-how-the-rookie-salary-cap-really-work/[/url]

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1363807238' post='1406629']
My source is accounting for ERFA tenders which have not been given yet, but will be eventually, so maybe that's where the issue is. Also, my number will be similar to yours when Pollard's savings kick in on June 1 so maybe that's a discrepancy as well.
[/quote]

Think we found it ... I think my numbers are accounting for Pollard the same as yours (why our Top 51 is so close). I think it's pretty certain that I am not accounting for ERFA's that haven't been given yet (guys like Nigel Carr and Swanson Miller). Wasn't going to add them until the tender was slapped on them. See them as pretty expendable for cap issues that might arise; especially when we get 12 picks in the upcoming draft.